Normally, these days I greet the month of October with a mixture of anticipation and dread. The anticipation stems from October’s position as Breast Cancer Awareness Month. Now that somehow I’ve managed to have a variety of responsibilities with respect to how breast cancer is managed at our cancer institute, suddenly I find that I’m sometimes called upon to do media appearances, and Breast Cancer Awareness Month is one time we can use to get our message out about breast health and breast cancer detection and treatment, not to mention to highlight for the local media some of the cool research that goes on here. Every year (or so it would seem) the quacks, cranks, and haters of science-based medicine come out of the woodwork to use October as an excuse either to attack “conventional” medicine (particularly anything related to breast cancer), promote quackery, or both.
In 2014, here we go again.
It would appear that in the wake of their ridiculous #CDCwhistleblower campaign, antivaccinationists have decided to infest Twitter in a big way. This time around, they appear to have foolishly decided once again to try to co-opt with Breast Cancer Awareness Month by trying to co-opt October as “Vaccine Injury Awareness Month” with their usual pseudoscience, persecution complex. It’s something that appears to have started in 2010 and has been resurrected every year since then. This year, antivaccinationists are trying to deluge Twitter with ridiculous hashtags such as #CDCwhistleblower, #hearthiswell, and #VaxTruth. For example:
And:
Unfortunately, it’s just as ridiculous now as it was then. Still, it might be fun to tweak antivaccinationists during their Twitter tempest in a teacup with some actual science. Or not. Either way, I’m guessing this latest Twitter tantrum will work about as well as previous antivaccine Twitter tantrums, as in not at all.
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Umm... my instructions for drawing the 'haarpagram' in #370 is totally fubar. xml/kml file posting is right out {missing}... for now. some of the images have been changed/updated as with 'rick perry's haarp'. Hmm. You can still see barbed wire around it but measuring the dimensions is impossible now. It *was* there. Somebody should drive out there to verify, I guess. Wear tinfoil. Perhaps, I'll post others which aren't really secret Haarp stations but are, in fact, giant pics of parts of circuit boards adorning the landscape of central america...
It is 'supposed' to look like this:
http://postimg.org/image/ft4zaftbn/
sorry for the previous clusterfuck.
polar view of #370 China haarp included
http://postimg.org/image/8qb49j0cr/
I *just know* there must be one on Greenland's tip... AGW will probably reveal it...
note: that pin in california the 'China pull' orange line passes through is indeed a VOA station.
Delano, Ca VOA station
http://www.w6lie.org/voa1.htm
As the aunt of a nephew born healthy who suddenly mysteriously died after receiving the Hep B vaccine, I find this post utterly repulsive. Do a little more research on the number of infants who are injured after pumping up profits at Merck and try writing a more enlightened post, you idiot!
Hannah, post hoc does not mean propter hoc.
Hannah, what was the official cause of death? Has that cause of death increased in neonates since the introduction of that vaccine? It seems like the kind of thing that people would notice if it was a real effect.
I'm also curious why you're singling out Hep B. Shay is correct in saying that just because your nephew died sometime after being vaccinated doesn't mean that the vaccine caused it. Surely there were any number of things that happened between when your nephew was conceived and when he passed. Since the death was mysterious, it's not even safe to rule out things that happened before he was conceived for that matter.
Sorry for your loss.
Hannah, sorry for your loss. What was the cause of death according to medical examiner?
The hard evidence may not be in yet, but microbial interaction with childhood vaccination leading to vaccine injury is dripping with biological plausibility.
Here's part 2 of my article published last week:
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/critical-role-microflora-vaccine-injury
Vaccine injuries exist, yet mechanisms aren't known. That's no excuse to laugh and yawn about it.
Yeah well, until it's in, we're not going to take you seriously.
There is more than ample reason to laugh and yawn at you, however.
Mr. Bell, please provide the PubMed indexed studies by reputable qualified researchers that the MMR vaccine causes more harm than measles.
#414 is riotous. Contrary to popular belief, I think Narad is phenomenal. When in the same country, I'd buy him a few beers so we can discuss gut-brain connection. Then I'd watch him consume a euthanized gnotobiotic pig.
Not sure how we're going to reach 1,000 comments on this heinous blog entry if I'm going to take a week to reply. Regarding the longstanding one, working on it, I have a lot to learn, obviously. So does Mayo Clinic. Never did receive a response to #343.
Regarding the novel one, I put as much stock in colonization in the womb as colonization beginning at birth, so "culture" refers to flora in general, not just breast milk. Inflammatory flora balance begins in the womb. The fetal GI tract is not sterile as commonly believed, akin to believing Earth is flat.
No wonder so many Brits are gender-bent consuming all that intersex fish downstream of wastewater treatment plants:
Urine Trouble: What's in our Water 13 Oct 14
http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/discovery
Scientists think the problem stems from pharmaceuticals such as birth control in disregard of natural estrogens excreted from everyone's intestines via cholesterol and coprostanol from which all steroid hormones are derived.
Chris, have you ever...ever...gotten an answer to that question from the avx crowd?
Keith, if you were actually attempting to simulate somthething like reading what had gone before, you'd realize that pointedly getting the country wrong is the least of your problems.
But what you're really interested in is comically trying to whοre around your pride at thinking that you've successfully colonized the doubtlessly humid microbiome of Sayer Ji's shorts.
Mr. Bell, please provide the PubMed indexed studies by reputable qualified researchers that the MMR vaccine causes more harm than measles.
Shay: "Chris, have you ever…ever…gotten an answer to that question from the avx crowd?"
No.
Which is amazing in Mr. Bell's case is because Wakefield tried to make the the case that the MMR screwed up gut microbiome.
Of course he started out trying to prove measles caused Crohn's disease, but had to change to the vaccine when the actual disease was not really occurring.
"actual disease was not really occurring"
... because of the vaccine.
Go figure.
Keith Bell @ #514:
Please reread Flip's comment @382. He responds to you there.
I assume this is a dig at Narad, who you seem to think is a Brit. I'm not sure what you mean by "gender-bent", though it seems to be a nasty and bigoted slur on transgender individuals, who are just as prevalent in the US as in the UK. Estrogen in water is also just as prevalent in the US as in the UK, though there is no connection.
Scientists are well aware that the vast majority of the estrogens in water do not come from pharmaceuticals, but from animal waste and industry, and that, "the risk of exposure to synthetic estrogens in drinking water on human health is negligible".
Exposure to other sources of estrogens in drinking water is also unlikely to have effects on human health:
Effects on aquatic organisms are another matter.
Speaking of endocrine disruptors, coincidentally this article was just published recently on the Genetic Literacy Website.
@Keith #514
I am currently sick, probably the flu. Between the runny nose, the cold and hot flashes, the constant napping, the affect it's had on my asthma, and the general crappy feeling, going through your convoluted reasoning has not been on my priority list. I am sure you will understand my health comes first.
I expect pot shots at this, but please don't. Not only would it be highly predictable - and therefore boring - but I got sick the night of meeting the latest addition to the family. I'm not worried about vaccine damage; I'm worried that pre-symptoms I infected several children and their parents. Some of whom work in hospitals.
Gone are the days of generosity and open minds when people actually pitched-in as in #240 to help explain vaccine injury via microbial interaction with the immune system.
Instead, we have a people here in denial, unwilling to tackle the problem of vaccine injury because they fear such understanding will fuel the surge of people taking responsibility for their own health, skipping vaccination.
Kreb, I've seen that paper about estrogens in water and it's a very rare one. Most scientists still blame pharmaceuticals. And there are no studies about fecal sterols in drinking water per EPA which are precursors of estrogen. Are you not concerned about widespread gender-bending known in the environment and how this may also be affecting humanity based on a single, slanted paper? The world has benefited greatly form autistic genius, i.e., Einstein whose poor gut forced him to become a vegetarian, but the problem is now getting out of hand with one in 50 ASD. The gut profoundly affects brain development both in and out of the womb.
My UK comment was not directed at Narad, but generally directed at what's happening globally. Even my earlier "digs" such as Narad not being breastfed were not directed at him personally, but were meant to illustrate the problem of gut dysbiosis and how it affects vaccine response.
Get well soon, Flip. You might try probiotics high in lactobcillus and bifidobacteria along with zinc.
Mr. Bell: "Instead, we have a people here in denial, unwilling to tackle the problem of vaccine injury because they fear such understanding will fuel the surge of people taking responsibility for their own health, skipping vaccination."
Because they, like you, choose to ignore the injuries caused by the diseases.
Here is a review of the effects of measles:
http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/189/Supplement_1/S4.full.pdf+html
Since you seem to be focused on the gut issues, here is the row of the table on complications:
Now I will ask you again to please provide the PubMed indexed studies by reputable qualified researchers that the MMR vaccine causes more harm than measles. Especially as you see measles does disrupt the gut, and the brain, and the lungs.
More colossal fail.
@Keith Bell:
You have yet to explain how that happens. Also, we've heard so much antivaxx hogwash that when somebody writes "vaccine injury" our response is to roll our eyes until the commenter makes his/her case.
The "problem of vaccine injury" has been massively exaggerated by antivaxxers. We are "unwilling to tackle the problem" for the same reason you don't see much literature on treating stab wounds from unicorn horns.
"Taking responsibility"? TAKING responsibility?!?!
Not getting vaccinated is the exact opposite of taking responsibility, especially given that the diseases have far worse outcomes than the vaccines.
I'm done with you. You came in here JAQing off and now you've revealed your true colours. I gave you the benefit of the doubt but no more. You are through and through antivaxx.
Einstein whose poor gut forced him to become a vegetarian
So we can add "autism" and "Einstein" to the list of topics of which Keith Bell knows nothing.
Keith,
For example? I have seen papers that look specifically at the fate of estrogens from human urine, mostly from pregnant women rather than from pharmaceuticals. I don't recall seeing any that claim that these exist in greater quantities than estrogens from agriculture and industry, Newspapers on the other hand, are fond of scare stories about drugs in drinking water, which very rarely provide evidence of any possible harm to humans, and which are more of a measure of increasing sensitivity in methods for measuring these chemicals..
Yes there are.
Why would the tiny amounts of estrogens in drinking water be of concern when there is hundreds of times more in our food, or even milk?
How specifically is this paper slanted? It is well-referenced and seems to be firmly based on verifiable facts. Is it's assessment of the amount of estrogens on drinking water, or the amount in our food and drink incorrect? Or is it just that these inconvenient facts don't fit your beliefs?
Julian Frost is living in a dreamworld in utter disregard of vaccine injury as a pervasive, skyrocketing reality.
http://digitalcommons.pace.edu/pelr/vol28/iss2/6/
Chris, the conversation is about lowering risk of injury caused by vaccines, not about eliminating vaccines, so your question is irrelevant.
What I'm exploring is the microbial mechanism for gut-brain injury caused by vaccines beginning in the gut.
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/critical-role-microflora-vaccine-injury
Btw, Kreb your link to Google Scholar still doesn't reveal a single study about fecal sterols in drinking water, but thanks for trying. Do you actually believe the world is not suffering an environmental crisis? I tend to doubt your head's so firmly planted in the sand. Gut diseases are rampant.
Mary Holland is old news here, Keith.
And, I notice her paper was so mediocre it couldn't get published in any sort of medical journal.
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/05/11/another-swing-for-the-fenc…
But, since you wish to converse about lowering the risk of injury caused by vaccines, what source do you prefer to use for determining the incidence of vaccine-caused adverse incidents?
And, since that is your concern, I take it you support the current DTaP vaccine because it is safer and has fewer adverse incidents than its predecessor, the DTP vaccine.
And for support you invoke Mary Holland's catastrophe? You can't win for losing, Keith.
There are several studies listed that look at fecal sterols in drinking water as markers for fecal contamination. Others, for example this one, look at phytoestrogens in general, including their breakdown to fecal sterols, and this one looking at British water, which concluded:
What else did you want?
I think there are plenty of real environmental problems, and that people inventing imaginary ones to worry about are part of the problem.
That's a complete non sequitur. What evidence do you have that gut diseases in the developed world (or anywhere else for that matter) have anything at all to do with estrogens in drinking water?
This was an entertaining display of self-refutation:
Please, Keith, could you make a special effort and restrict yourself to making stuff up about one topic at a time?
Mr. Bell: "Chris, the conversation is about lowering risk of injury caused by vaccines, not about eliminating vaccines, so your question is irrelevant."
Which you cannot have without taking into account the relative risk of the vaccines compared to the diseases. This is the part of the equation you want to singularly ignore.
Now if you do not wish to deal with the risks of the actual disease like measles then come up with a better way to prevent measles!
And I did not even mention rotavirus. Now that is a virus that will really screw up your gut microbiome! Ever had to deal with a toddler who has rivers of diarrhea and subsequent dehydration? Why don't you try telling us how that vaccine is so terrible.
Because all you are doing blathering about some kind of "vaccine injury" without providing real proof they occur, and when pushed into a corner are now blathering about estrogen in water! Make up your mind, and come up with a real argument.
Also, Mr. Bell, the reason I chose MMR is because you seem to be enamored with this "gut" thing. I noted before that Wakefield actually tried to link the measles virus to Crohn's, but that turned sour when the vaccine had reduced the incidence of measles.
So then he turned to the MMR vaccines. And, yes, that is plural because between 1988 and 1992 the UK had three different versions. Plus his infamous study included an American child with a fourth MMR vaccine. This illustrates Wakefield's scientific incompetence because he could not even limit that one variable.
But he decided to one up his incompetence and just commit research fraud.
And here is another thing, while the MMR was introduced in the UK in 1988, it had been used in the USA since 1971 (with a change in rubella strain in 1978).
Now if the MMR vaccine was associated with autism it would have been noticed in the USA before Wakefield came onto the scene. The USA is much much larger than the UK, and had been using the MMR for more than two decades in 1998. In fact the MMR was the preferred vaccine for the 1978 Measles Elimination Program.
So do you have any evidence dated before 1990 that autism rose in the USA coincident to the use of the MMR vaccine?
I was going to respond to Keith's comment, but I see that the other regulars have already made waterbombing runs over his pile of burning stupid. Thanks everyone! :D
You're all acting like a family of laughing, yawning hyenas, a weak fortress around Lord Gorski who can't defend his own statement claiming no biological plausibility for African American males suffering high risk of autism by MMR.
Yet most of you have admitted there is biological plausibility based on microbial interaction, so it appears I've been successful in educating you about this reciprocal interaction between our microbes and our immune system. I doubt any of you gave it much thought before or even knew about probiotic adjuvants. The best Narad can do is tangential distraction, though he was doing a nice job contributing, much appreciated. Personally, I've gained knowledge here, as well . . . and generally believe creativity is about the meeting of opposites where the solution is found somewhere in the middle, so appreciate the exchanges, however infantile. Speaking of which, when will Infantile Spasm be treated as a gut-brain disorder instead of from the neck up?
And where's the balanced, sensitive Skeptiquette? Probably offended, including by her own tribe of savages. It's like Lord of the Flies around here.
Chris, that's a nice point. Where is the 1980s data?
http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/01/mark-blaxill-lies-damned-lies-and-cd…
Btw, Narad, I like this page revealing Einstein's lifelong gut problems:
http://books.google.com/books?id=zY7FE9ZyDO0C&pg=PA46&lpg=PA46&dq=einst…
Plenty of evidence Einstein was autistic. And did you know about John Nash self-medicating as a child? "He developed bizarre behaviors such as grass eating." http://psychological-musings.blogspot.com/2011/06/case-study-john-forbe…
Here are part 1 and 2 of my articles again, illustrating microbial predisposition as mechanism of vaccine injury as many of you may not have looked yet (certainly Mayo Cinic hasn't):
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/vaccine-injury-biological-plausibility…
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/critical-role-microflora-vaccine-injury
That's an easy question. When there is a sufficient quantity of quality evidence that it's a gut-brain disorder, and when there is a relevant approved treatment for it.
Well, time for another series of waterbombing runs over another swathe of burning stupid.
Plausible doesn't mean likely. It's also plausible that an asteroid capable of causing an extinction level event could strike the earth within the next 10 years.
By that logic, you could take a geographer and a flat-earther and say the earth isn't a globe. Or a NASA employee and conspiracy theorist and argue that we got only partway to the moon. Science doesn't work like that. We go where the evidence leads. In fact, that "meet you in the middle" idea is what AGW denialists use.
First off, Age of Autism is not a reliable source. It's a blog whose community is devoted to the belief that autism is a vaccine injury. Secondly, if you wanted to show that you're antivaccine, a link to AoA is a great way to do it.
As for calling us a "family of laughing, yawning hyenas", you owe me a new hypocrisy meter, particularly after you called me delusional.
Plenty of evidence Einstein was autistic.
Then provide some, for feck's sake. You evidently know sweet feck all about Einstein, or about autism.
Wouldn't the first step be to show that African American males actualy suffer a high risk of autism by MMR? How can you have a plausible mechanism to cause something that doesn't exist?
So far, I believe you've offered Hooker's paper and Thompson's press release, and nothing else. If you have any compelling evidence African American males, or any other group, suffers a high risk of autism by MMR, I think we'd like to see it.
Which caused him to become a vegetarian? No, Keith, you lose again (PDF). Did Einstein suddenly develop "autism" when he was 19? "Lifelong" doesn't mean what you apparently desperately need it to. You're like the anti-Occam.
Plenty of evidence Einstein was autistic.
No, Keith, there's grasping at straws. Show me the "autism" here (PDF).
"A freer life and independent work made of the quiet, dreamy boy a happy, outgoing, universally liked young man."
Oh, right, Keith is still asshurt about not having had personal attention lavished over him by virtue of two comments at SBM and too stupid to notice that Orac rarely comments here.
Oh, those bastards! The Mayo Clinic isn't paying attention to Keith Fυcking Bell. Jesus Christ, you're lucky anyone here even bothers to reply to you, given that all you've got is changing the subject and then circling back as though nothing had happened, as well as linking to your own proud displays of the output of your precious microbiota over and over again as though nobody could find them without your help.
Johnny, we've been discussing Somali immigrants producing twice the antibodies of other groups in reaction to rubella vaccine per Mayo Clinic. It's also known Somali immigrants of Minneapolis and Sweden suffer extremely high autism rates, about 1 in 25 boys, not good odds for prospective parents:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/17/health/study-links-autism-and-somalis…
"Black children were twice as likely to have parent-reported regression compared to white children. Hispanic children were about 1.5 times more likely than white children to lose early skills according to their parents."
http://www.pas-meeting.org/press/Tues/Spinks-Franklin%20Developmental%2…
http://www.scpr.org/news/2014/05/09/44070/autism-black-and-latino-kids-…
Narad, who knew about Darwin's life of pain and vomit? Sick as a dog genius:
http://www.scpr.org/news/2014/05/09/44070/autism-black-and-latino-kids-…
Vegetarian, Adolph Hitler's uncontrollable flatulence, gut controlling brain:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/medical-reports-show-adolf-hitler…
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/4678840/Adolf-H…
How about Marilyn Monroe's depression, sugar addiction and gallbladder removal?
http://michellevogelhollywoodnews.com/2012/04/18/marilyn-monroes-gall-b…
Bill Gates is thought to have autistic traits. Less than 2% of his Foundation budget goes toward the real solution of sanitation, the lion's share toward vaccination in concert with major pharmaceuticals.
oops, here's poor Darwin:
http://www.brainpickings.org/2014/08/28/darwin-anxiety/?utm_content=buf…
Speaking of changing the subject, what do Darwin's ailments have to do wtb anything discussd here?
LW, my previous comment is still in moderation (too many links).
Examples of people with poor gut-brains and sanitation issues are given for people here who may not be aware of these issues and how prevalent the problems are today. Gut dysbiosis leading to brain malfunction is becoming mainstream info quickly, however, vaccine science is only beginning to incorporate this factor.
New study states "intestinal microbiota can indirectly harm the brain of preterm infants." but the vaccine industry appears in almost complete disregard:
http://www.nature.com/pr/journal/vaop/naam/abs/pr2014161a.html
Keith,
First, are you able to explain in your own what is autism and how it affect the brain? I just want to be sure we're on the same page.
Alain
The only vaccine Darwin could possibly have gotten, if he got any, was the smallpox vaccine. Dragging him into this discussion is just trying to change the subject.
Mr. Bell took the time to post a coupla links when I ask him “to show that African American males actually suffer a high risk of autism by MMR”, so it's only fair I read them.
The first link is to a newspaper article covering a University of Minnesota, The Minneapolis Somali Autism Spectrum Disorder Prevalence Project. What did they find?
From http://rtc.umn.edu/autism/
I immediately note they separate Somali and black in separate categories, and that black children have less autism than white children.
Clearly the cause is the MMR and gut bugs, not genetics. Well, clear to Mr. Bell perhaps.
His second and third links are news reports that point to the same study. See
http://www.abstracts2view.com/pas/view.php?nu=PAS14L1_4670.6
(bolding mine)
ATN - Autism Treatment Network
The study only looks at “developmental regression”, based on parents recolections, with no mention of overall rates or, again, the MMR.
These are the kind of solid datapoints I've come to expect from Mr. Bell.
I, for one, am convinced. Wether I am convinced of Mr. Bell's hypothesis, or that he is a clone of Michael Dochniak I leave as an exercise to the reader.
Johnny, thanks for at least understanding the hypothesis, more than most people here have been able to acknowledge.
Do you think vaccine scientists are paying attention to the latest reports about microbial colonization in the womb? I doubt it, though it's fascinating to realize the importance of the order of colonization based on length of time in the womb:
http://news.wustl.edu/news/Pages/27198.aspx
So, imagine a preemie hit with vaccination per cruel CDC schedule when the dominant form of gut microbe is gammaproteobacteria such as E. coli. Might this explain preemies having a higher risk of autism as E.coli dysregulate immune response and protective bacteria are missing?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/17/us-preemies-idUSTRE79G55D2011…
http://www.nature.com/mt/journal/v14/n2/full/mt20061285a.html
Of course, we'd probably also find unvaccinated preemies suffering higher risk of autism. Vaccines become insult to injury.
Alain, are you from France? Might wanna check into your sperm crisis, a global issue of gut origin.
LW, see previous comment, it was just an illustration of gut-brain.
Johnny, a couple more:
"Children of US African American/black and foreign-born black, foreign-born Central/South American, and US-born Hispanic mothers were at higher risk of exhibiting an AD phenotype with both severe emotional outbursts and impaired expressive language than children of US-born whites."
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/06/17/peds.201…
http://online.wsj.com/articles/autism-rates-higher-among-certain-immigr…
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/ucla-study:-mother-s-place-of-birth-i…
2014 study examines challenges in African Americans such as late diagnosis, access to treatment and cultural bias:
http://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007%2F978-1-4614-4788-7…
FTFY, Keith. When you fυcked up the Einstein routine twice, it was not the time to start babbling about "vegetarian, Adolph Hitler’s uncontrollable flatulence, gut controlling brain." What, vegetarianism worked for Einstein but not for poor "autistic," Lebensreform-drenched, yogurt-gobbling, probiotic poster boy Adolf?
Oh, look, poor Keith is down to attempted dіck-waving, although his skills in geographical inference remain at their usual levels.
I thought everyone knew that it was a complete myth that Hitler was vegetarian? Mind you, my only reference for that is QI.
Another thing:
I therefore trust that you will immediately recognize my henceforth referring to you as "Keith 'Big Semen' Bellend" as a commensurately profound philosophical allusion.
Now, before you began explaining how vegetarianism rescued Einstein's autistic gut yet drove Hitler to create the Wehrmacht out of, apparently, severe flatulence, weren't you going to explain the protozoans?
How about Marilyn Monroe’s depression, sugar addiction and gallbladder removal?
This is from Keith, who earlier complained that people were not sticking to the topic of conversation that he had assigned.
Bill Gates is thought to have autistic traits
Ooh look, the impersonal passive voice. The question, Keith, is whether you personally claim to have the diagnostic training to decide whether someone whom you have never met displays "autistic traits". If you don't,/b> have that training, then how about a nice cup of Shutthefuckup? If you do have that clinical experience, then how about explaining what it has to do with the topic of conversation to which you want everyone else to adhere?
@ Bell
He isn't, I am.
Coincidentally enough, I linked at #521 to an article about this very subject. Here is the link again.
The linked article is just a digest of recently published studies. No mention of gut flora.
On the other hand, the author does point out that vegetarian people have sperm of a lower quality compared to meat-eating people.
That doesn't square well with your recently published assumptions.
So Einstein, Darwin, Hitler and Marilyn Monroe had gut dysbiosis leading to genius, genius, genocidal megalomania, and being physically attractive (and depressed) respectively? How is it that no one has noticed this obvious pattern before?
Clearly the fact that most people throughout history have died from diarrhea isn't because of a lack of hygiene and modern medicine, it's because they had poor gut flora. It's all about the microbiota, it explains everything, including the sad state of our precious bodily fluids.
Wikipedia has a useful article on the curious phenomenon of the idée fixe.
Guess my wife has the same problem.
Helianthus, I got a kick out of that article the first time, thanks. Eat more pesticides, hilarious. The article is dripping with imbalanced flora like dew on a lily.
Have you noticed the head size on poor Darwin? Huge brain?! The brain triples in weight in the third trimester when mom's flora shifts to a diabetic state. Flora produce omega 3 and omega 6 fatty acids used for brain development, it's not a simple matter of dietary fats. Might the fetal gut drive fetal brain development?
Meanwhile, large for gestational age (LGA) babies based on diabetic mothers are an important factor in the global C-section epidemic, itself known to cause unhealthy flora balance. Heads simply won't fit through the birth canal anymore. Mrs. Darwin, Chuck's mom, must have been in quite a lot of pain. Large head/brain size in autism is now up for debate.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/08/120802122506.htm
Related to vaccination, how might an inflammatory flora balance in infancy, gammaproteobacteria prevalent, lead to not only poor vaccine response, but also dysregulated immune response leading to gut-brain injury?
Here's a sister article for yours, Heil, just as ridiculous:
http://www.cbs12.com/news/top-stories/stories/vid_19929.shtm
Btw, I'm not promoting vegetarian/veganism. Many are forced to go that route for medical reasons because their compromised guts can no longer digest meat, Mike Tyson included.
"What does these inkspots look like?"
"Imbalanced gut flora"
More assertions without evidence. Idee fixe indeed.
Narad, the difference between Einstein and Hitler is emotional where poor Adolph was repeatedly beaten as a child by his father. Gut-brain is a two-way street where emotional stress is known to lower commensal bacterial counts leading to a diseased state.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110321094231.htm
We've already talked about high protozoans known in autism, taxonomy unavailable, and how protozoans dysregulate the immune system.
Kreb doesn't seem to understand the association between poor sanitation, i.e., open defecation practiced by over a billion people, and imbalanced gut flora.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/15/world/asia/poor-sanitation-in-india-m…
Polio is a sanitation issue, not a vaccination issue.
Heli, did you know vitamin D deficiency is linked with poor sperm quality? Most vitamin D experts still believe it's about lack of sunshine, but their heads are in the sand, it's about gut health as discussed earlier and inflammatory flora leading to poor vitamin D synthesis and absorption.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21427118
Kreb thinks the UK rickets epidemic is about lack of sun exposure which is, frankly, asinine.
Keith Bell:
I thought this was a daft comment so I looked it up here. (Hope I haven't stuffed up the link.)
First off, the vaccine schedule was not created by the CDC but by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) and other medical organizations. The only vaccine given shortly after birth is the hepatitis vaccine. If the preemie is below a certain weight, the paediatrician will delay vaccination. So much for "cruel vaccine schedule".
And your evidence for vaccines becoming "insult to injury" and raising the risk of autism in premature babies? Oh right, you don't have any. Also, I read those two links you posted. Suffice to say, they don't say what you think they say.
@ #563:
This is what wikipedia has to say
I've never lived in Britain, but my mother did as a child, and she told me that winters are very long and have very little sunlight.
TL:DR, Krebiozen is right, and you are full of bovine solid excrement.
Julian, I doubt your mother had any problem birthing you naturally (small head). In fact, I visualize you wearing a cape at birth, flying uncontrollably out of the womb and hitting the nearest wall. Tell her I say hello.
How's that for nasty, SM?
Thank you for that, Keith. Your remark (and your comments to Alain and about the british) confirms that you can't win on the evidence and have to result to insults.
Ah, yes, the filth of 1952 in the U.S. Or, wait, is this your version of poor sanitation, viz., flush toilets?
Well played, Bellend.
If your running away from direct questions is what qualifies as "talked about," sure.
Idee fixe indeed.
That Far Side cartoon seems increasingly apposite.
http://www.insidethegate.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/WhatDogsHear.jpg
I like the *shithead* hypothesis. Good luck getting funding to study the western world with an N of american policy setters (thus UN, ... , WHO...., ) but they are usually reticent when it comes to *public service* as their own labrats.
I like the penultumate *shithead* hypothesis. Good luck getting funding to study the western world with an N of american policy setters (thus UN, ... , WHO...., ) but they are usually reticent when it comes to *public service* as their own labrats.
Keith,
Citation needed. I find it very hard to believe that significant amounts of fatty acids are made by gut bacteria, if they make any at all. What do they make them out of?
Asinine? What is asinine is someone making grandiose claims that directly contradict well-established facts. We know that rickets is due to lack of vitamin D and/or calcium. Frank malnutrition is rare in the UK, thanks to our welfare state, and the most common cause of rickets is vitamin D deficiency. This is most common in people with darker skin, and in people who rarely expose their skin to the sun. There isn't any controversy about this. Rickets can be treated very successfully with sunshine or supplements, without any need for probiotics or fecal transplants.
A few more points:
Firstly, epidemics are about contagious diseases, not vitamin and mineral deficiencies like rickets, and there were fewer than 900 cases in the UK in 2012, out of over 60 million people. More than we would like to see, of course, but not an epidemic even if that was the correct term.
Secondly, I watched a UK TV program ('Trust Me I'm a Doctor' probably blocked in the UK but should be on BBC I-Player) just the other day, in which they took a group of office workers and measured their vitamin D levels. About half of them had lower than optimal vitamin D and two were at risk of deficiency (both white, as I recall, surprisingly). They split them into three random groups and gave one group oily fish, one group supplements and the remaining group spent ten minutes outside every day with their arms bared. After three weeks all three groups' vitamin D levels increased by more or less the same amount.
Thirdly, are you suggesting that low vitamin D is due to gut 'dysbiosis'? Do you believe that bacteria produce vitamin D? Is that in the gut or in the skin, as I believe you have claimed? Are these bacteria intracellular like the intracellular probiotic bacteria you mention in one of your articles?
Alain, are you from France? Might wanna check into your sperm crisis, a global issue of gut origin.
ummm.....a question then an assumption. Look like you answered yourself your question but I don't feel the need to answer just because I'm lazy.
With that said, if you really want to investigate my sperm crisis, whatever that is, you are fully welcome. It may help if you arrange yourself to look like that very impressive woman in that picture :) (NSFW, 18+).
Alain
BTW, Keith, what is the deal with "Recycling Programs, Inc."? The Florida Secretary of State hasn't heard of you, and Illinois involuntarily dissolved it a long time ago. It's not a Delaware corporation. So where, exactly, are you incorporated?
Julian, don't take it personally, I was merely illustrating relationship of gut flora to head size and brain development.
Kreb, our flora manufacture many kinds of fatty acids: short chain, long chain and free fatty acids . . . butyric acid is made in large part by our clostridium clusters IV and XIVa and is crucial to general health. Preemies don't appear to have benefit of clostridia per recent research posted above. These types of clostridia are seen as protective. When missing, how is immune response to vaccination affected?
Omega 3 and 6 PUFAs are made by flora via desaturase enzymes, not yet commonly viewed as function of our gut flora while human synthesis of fatty acids is known affected by our flora: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0020…
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/05/140514133438.htm
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24389665
"gastrointestinal bacterial composition also affects host fatty acid metabolism"
http://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/5/8/3299
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/95/5/1278.long
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11745-010-3410-7#page-1
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0048…
Yes, I am suggesting low vitamin D due to gut dysbiosis as our synthesis of D is affected by general inflammation; vitamin D level may be a matter of microbial synthesis and degradation. They produce and consume the precursors, block the receptor and degrade D as part of the enzymatic pathway. Yet vitamin D experts tout sunshine, supplements and diet amid a global rickets epidemic. Did you know the first vitamin D was product of flora 750 million years ago? Can these infants be cured with sunshine and supplements?
http://www.irinnews.org/report/85703/bangladesh-over-half-a-million-chi…
Epidemics are not just about contagious diseases. The world's health focus today are epidemics of non-communicable diseases (NCDs).
http://www.who.int/chp/ncd_global_status_report/en/
I, for one, am tremendously enjoying Big Semen's* devolution into a Gish Galloping frenzy.
* Der "blutdurchpulsten Beutel mit den beiden kleinen eiförmigen Hoden."
Fan. Tas. Tick (PDF.)
Hey, who's "Sanitation Circle"? Oh, right.
^ I'm now uncertain about the definite article paired with a quotation once again.
@Narad,
It seems Keith can't even write a good PowerPoint presentation.
The elementary school students I worked with a few years ago did better work than that.
But, we can agree on one thing. The Federal Food Drug and Cosmetic Act of 1938 should definitely be rewritten. But, of course we differ on the details.
I and, I think, most of the commenters on this blog think the special exemption given to homeopathic remedies in that act should be completely eliminated. It would also be an excellent idea to remove the special treatment given to supplements several years ago and establish some requirement to demonstrate efficacy and safety for doses significantly above the RDA's.
But, I suspect Keith will tire of commenting here long before that happens.
Per Julian's link:
"medically stable preterm babies weighing more than 2.2 pounds at birth should be treated like full-term babies and receive the first dose of the hepatitis B immunization according to the recommended schedule." So, a 2.3 lb. baby is administered HepB at birth when their guts are filled with E. coli (gammaproteobacteria), not clostridia or protective lactobacillus and bifidobacteria.
http://www.healthychildren.org/English/safety-prevention/immunizations/…
"Earliest in life, a group of bacteria called Bacilli dominated. Then, a class known as Gammaproteobacteria became abundant. Third, the class identified as Clostridia flourished."
http://news.wustl.edu/news/Pages/27198.aspx
Is it any wonder preemies suffer higher risk of autism?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/17/us-preemies-idUSTRE79G55D2011…
Vaccines do cause autism.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsLuR3X6cpg&list=PLJpPObXpZncOfT0bG2ghg…
When Mr. Bell first graced us with his comments, I thought he was just another anti-vax loon, trying to salvage something from Hooker's paper and the CDCwhistleblower fiasco. Clearly, I was wrong.
Mr. Bell is not an anti-vax loon.
Mr. Bell is a garden variety loon, not much different than the Time Cube guy.
Thank you, Narad, for showing me the error of my ways.
Johnny, did you miss #552? Try to respond with something more than fluff. Thanks for the inspiration to research.
Speaking of fluff, is he called Narad because he has nary a thing to add? Or is it Daran backwards?
Unfortunately Keith, your last comment reveals something of your research skills and mode of thinking.
Leaving aside the curious order and inventory, that reminds me of something.
"Dick, Ralph and Hollingshead were solemnly seated with the guests and being silent (but not wearing bedsheets). I tried to read the paper to myself, but my hand was shaking so badly from suppressed bursts of merriment that I could hardly make it out … with the next mouthful of food contemplate on the wonders of the body; where the food goes, how it is digested ... WHAT THE F*CK! I made some kind of strangled effort to express my dismay, which merely caused Susan Metzner to collapse next to Susan Leary at the table. What the hell—I would just have to get a grip on myself. I went out into the dining room and tried not to look at the people ... where the fυck's the damn gong? I didn’t see any gong ... no gong ... oh yeah, there was a big gong, at least three feet in diameter, hanging in a frame next to the front door ... I went out in the hall and brought it in … heavy bastard.... There was a big beater with it. I put the frame up on a serving table next to the pantry door and gripped the hammer with my right hand while I held the paper with my left. Everyone was looking at me with great solemnity. I was afraid that I would burst into shrieks of insane laughter at any moment—but even that apprehension struck me as absolutely hilarious. I hit the gong a good whack and started reading, pretending all the while that I was somewhere else and that some mechanical dummy was reading the paper. Mercifully, I got to the last sentence without choking: when you hear the sound of the gong (GONG)—were those hysterical screams I could hear in the kitchen?—observe its structured wonders, skin, hair, tissue, blood, vein, bone, muscle, net of nerve. Observe its message. (For one awful moment, I considered going on with appendix, colon, lymphatic system, memories of a misspent youth, but I suppressed the urge.) Om Shanti, Shanti, Shanti. (GONG) I fled to the kitchen. The girls had reached the stage of final exhaustion. They were just sitting there with tears streaming down their cheeks."
BTW, crAssphage is a classic.
The first link from Mr Bell #575 lead to an article in PlosOne which has this as first sentence of its abstract (emphasis mine):
Not exactly evidence that our gut bacteria are overproducing fatty acids for our benefit.
A number of our bacteria are proteobacteria as well, but they stopped being marine a few millions years ago.
Also, "narrow subset" get me worried a bit as to the possibility of our bacteria still having this trait.
The second link is about how omega fatty acids reach our brain via specific protein transporters. Interesting, but AFAIK no bug involved. Irrelevant, no-one here denies that omega fatty acids are normal nutrients and good for our brain.
The third link (ncbi) is about an article entitled "Engineering of EPA/DHA omega-3 fatty acid production by Lactococcus lactis subsp. cremoris MG1363."
In other words, bacteria which have been genetically modified to produce these fatty acids. The gene comes from, again, a marine bacterium.
I would guess the original Lactococcus isn't great at producing these fatty acids, since the machinery has to be imported.
The fourth link is to this article:
"Docosahexaenoic Acid, Inflammation, and Bacterial Dysbiosis in Relation to Periodontal Disease, Inflammatory Bowel Disease, and the Metabolic Syndrome", in the journal Nutrient.
You could have saved everybody's time by starting with this article, dummy.
I'm not knowledgeable enough to fully criticize this article; for all I know, the article's findings may have merits (but do "Inflammatory Bowel Disease" and "Metabolic Syndrome" really exist?).
I will just note that while the authors recommend supplementation of omega-3 fatty acid to cure or alleviate a plethora of syndromes, they don't seem to believe that normal gut flora produces enough of it.
I will also note that the fatty acid supplementation was used in conjunction with aspirin. Which is not a molecule known for any effect on inflammation (sarcasm). Anyway, I'm pretty sure aspirin is not a natural product of our gut flora (sadly; I could use some right now).
I almost gave up at this point. A pity, the nutrition, springer and second PlosOne articles are about feeding mice or rats with Bifidobacterium breve. These three articles are from the same team, and they all conclude that Bifidobacterium supplementation improve the fatty acid content of the animals, to put it shortly. I would have preferred different teams, to get some redundancy in the results.
But now at least we are on topic. Well, on some topic.
I'm a bit puzzled by some discoveries (it works on weened animals, but not on non-separated animals?), but again, not my area of expertise. I would guess that it should not be surprising that modifying the bacteria population of the animals' guts has an effect on nutrients' intake and subsequent metabolism.
Now, there is still some work to do to prove that these changes are beneficial. For all I know, these rats and mice just build fat.
And to go back to the initial topic, none of these articles show any relationship between gut flora and vaccine injury in newborn humans (or even newborn mice).
Re: rickets in Bangladesh children, the linked article first paragraph remind everybody that it's a deficiency of vitamin D and calcium.
That's the two needed components to make strong bones. Miss one, it doesn't matter if you have tons of the other.
And then the news article has the following paragraphs:
and then:
Seems to me it's not vitamin D (either by sunshine or hypothetical bacteria) the poor children are lacking, but milk.
Keith,
You specifically wrote that, "Flora produce omega 3 and omega 6 fatty acids used for brain development". Butyrate is neither, it is a very short chain fatty acid made by bacteria from carbohydrates, and isn't used for brain development, as far as I know, though it is believed to supply energy to gut epithelia.
Vaccination is delayed in low weight premature infants, as Julian pointed out, and since the hepatitis B vaccine is 95% effective and protection lasts at least 20 years, I'm not too concerned.
"Not yet commonly viewed" seems to be code for "I just made this up". Anyway, let's see what your citations actually say this time:
1. 'Widespread Occurrence of Secondary Lipid Biosynthesis Potential in Microbial Lineages'
I don't believe humans have "a narrow subset of marine γ-proteobacteria" in their guts.
2. 'Researchers discover how DHA omega-3 fatty acid reaches brain'
No mention of bacteria, gut flora or the microbiome.
3. 'Engineering of EPA/DHA omega-3 fatty acid production by Lactococcus lactis subsp. cremoris MG1363.'
This is about genetically engineering lactobacillus to produce omega 3 fatty acids using genes from marine bacteria.
4. 'Docosahexaenoic Acid, Inflammation, and Bacterial Dysbiosis in Relation to Periodontal Disease, Inflammatory Bowel Disease, and the Metabolic Syndrome'
This is about the role that dietary or supplemental DHA may have "on the composition of gut microbiota, lipid metabolism, intestinal integrity, and chronic inflammation", There is nothing here about bacteria producing omega 3 and 6 PUFAs. The fact that, “gastrointestinal bacterial composition also affects host fatty acid metabolism” does not mean that gastrointestinal bacterial make omega 3 and 6 PUFAs.
5. 'Contrasting effects of Bifidobacterium breve NCIMB 702258 and Bifidobacterium breve DPC 6330 on the composition of murine brain fatty acids and gut microbiota'
I see nothing about the synthesis of omega 3 or 6 PUFAs, though it does mention Bifodobacterium breve that convert linoleic acid and alpha-linolenic acid to conjugated linolenic acid and to conjugated linoleic acid. Converting one type of omega-6 fatty acid to another (more or less) isn't what I took you to mean by "Flora produce omega 3 and omega 6 fatty acids used for brain development".
6. 'Impact of Administered Bifidobacterium on Murine Host Fatty Acid Composition'
Again, this is about gut bacteria affecting the digestion of fats, not about them synthesizing omega 3 and 6.
7. 'Bifidobacterium breve with α-Linolenic Acid and Linoleic Acid Alters Fatty Acid Metabolism in the Maternal Separation Model of Irritable Bowel Syndrome '
More about Bifidobacterium breve which is interesting but it does not make omega 3 or 6 fatty acids; if anything it consumes them.
So why are sunshine, supplements and diet so successful in treating and preventing rickets? Where are the sunshine, supplements and diet resistant rickets patients?
Yes, if by "flora" you mean plankton. Land animals have been making their own vitamin D without the need for microorganisms for at least 350 million years.
Why not? Rickets in Bangladesh appears to be caused by a combination of malnutrition and contaminated groundwater, both of which are common problems in Bangladesh. Sunshine isn't much use if they don't get the precursors in their diet. Improving their diet seems to be working (PDF):
Other children respond to calcium tablets, while the most severely affected need surgery.
I know the word is used in that way, but I'm by no means the only person to think this is an abuse of the term (PDF). In any case, 900 cases of rickets in a population of 60 million is not even close to being an epidemic, and it seems clear to me that dysbiosis is not a significant contributing factor.
Helianthus beat me to it - I should refresh the page before posting.
Allow me:
"ConcernedParent" at AoA was ahead of you, but whatever. How do you imagine these help Hooker, much less your idée fixe? Because, you know, all you did was cut and paste.
Mr. Bell, yes, I did see your post #522. What I continued to not see was any evidence that the MMR causes autism in anybody, or that any mixture of gut bugs, healthy or otherwise, causes autism, with or without the MMR or any other vaccine, in any combination.
What I did find, thru Narad's links, are these words of yours -
http://cdn.f1000.com/posters/docs/256349005
Anybody that believes that all disease (more or less) has a single cause is a loon.
This will be our last communication. I bid you good day.
Kreb and Heli, thank you kindly reviewing the subject of flora's relationship with fatty acid metabolism and how it may be crucial to fetal brain development. Not yet discussed is flora's relationship with the endocannabinoid system and gut hormones (including insulin) via stimulating secretion from epithelial cells. It takes a village.
Regarding rickets, I fear you've both missed the main point: rickets is a matter of microbial predisposition as children are born compromised from the wombs of compromised mothers likely suffering gestational diabetes. Children don't simply acquire rickets after birth, they're born with imbalanced flora leading to rickets.
This is why I use rickets as example of poor microbial predisposition related to vaccine injury. I'm not saying vaccines cause rickets, of course, though that may be possible (autism is associated with thin bones). I'm saying children are born imbalanced and this is not yet factored by the vaccine industry related to vaccine injury.
Incidentally, microbial predisposition is also why we're seeing skyrocketing eating disorders including anorexia in very young children, previously seen as psychological illness. Moreover, children are now born to become obese.
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/anorexia-americas-hidden-epidemic-23432…
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/22/health/child-eating-disorders/
It's been known anorexia is high in archaea, but here's the latest news implicating flora imbalance, not mental illness:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/10/141007103308.htm
^^ This is disgusting. The FDA is totally pwnd/corrupt -- aspartame, acetaminophen, ... , GRAS.
There goes the *real* food derived vitamin C complex (ascorbic acid is mostly worthless). There goes the real folate. There goes the inositol and choline. There goes the 5-htp and the L-tryptophan (again). There goes the NAC. There goes most things to counter the imposed sickfuck of allopathy. 35 years to study the 5-htp and nada. 'Ask your doctor if'...something a pharma rep advertised is right for you. They tend to drop you if you go in informed of anything alternative. The fear was effective, though. The first words on 5-htp, in big black letters on webmd, were "DO NOT USE 5-HTP" (that seems *rectified* now, btw) and they went into a shcpeal about peak-X nevermind the ban on L-tryptophan was a peak-E and that to cover up a GMO catastrophy. Eat more prozac (mass-murder, suicide pills).
I've been innoculated by prohibition -- *no studies to show* and how if a 'process or isolation' such as when one can just grow his own; then the pharma solution (through revolving doors and lobbying) is to have millions of lives destroyed through incarceration and stigmation/suppression/shunning -- I guess, *herd immunity* may be efficatious there. I guess, first impressions are usually correct -- Walls and walls of tripe to hide behind blissful ignorance. What a thing to hang on one's wall as worshiping *science based*. Ha! derps (not all ya'll -- there may still be good people but hanging out in such cliques is likely to prove gulagable soon).
Most things that even sport an RDA to start with are because the fake shit mandated to be put in foods or available in pharma multi-vitamins are worthless oil derivitives. In some cases, as with folic acid, there is a small headroom between the RDA and upper tolerable intake. Poison.
I'd noticed the cold shoulder here, as well as the IP ban -- I guess, word was given from on high that too much *Brady material* (and I'm not pointing at Orac here) would be generated in a response, of late. Who tagged me back on aug 29, "and don't know shit about law, BINGO..."?? Bingo. Fucktard.
Peace, buds
Actually, profanity will send a commenter into automatic moderation purgatory as well.
Sorry, Orac. You've been good to me. You've had a way of subly highlighting the words I wanted to get out. Mostly. And for the record, I was not bitch mitchum -- Though, when one gets emails from himself then I don't know what is who anymore myself.
peace, dude
ATTENTION: UK dolts (you know who you are, Denice Walter), inbred Germans (Nary, Denice Walter) and impudent/insolent people (Lord Orac), please direct yourselves to newly published #580, I wouldn't want you to miss it.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/11119062/Inces…
Speaking of impudence, Kreb, did you happen to suffer fecal incontinence during your excruciating decade of mismanaged giardia? Have you ever considered imbalanced flora for reason behind adult diaper sales surpassing baby diapers? How about impotence related to constipation? Any insights?
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/07/in-rapidly-aging-ja…
Sorry, Timmeh.
Would you like to cry on my shoulder? It's fairly warm at the moment since I had a nice walk this morning, but I took a shower so you won't have to suffer the fragrance.
More seriously, since Prohibition ended in 1933 (were you actually inoculated against anything at that time?), the average U.S. life expectancy has increased from 61.7 to 78.7 years. And, having survived this long, I can hope to make to at least 83.6. Not too bad a performance for "the imposed sickf*** of allopathy".
And, those numbers don't show any sign of "millions of lives destroyed", as you put it.
I've never been prescribed prozac, but I'm quite happy to take my (-)-(S)-α-ethyl-2-oxo-1-pyrrolidine acetamide twice a day. It certainly beats some of the likely alternatives such as killing myself in a car accident.
When things, including vitamin and food substances, that have an RDA specified, that number is based on a lot of research and ongoing additional studies by a lot of people to determine how much is needed for an average person to be healthy. And, that research is not hidden behind "Walls and walls of tripe". It's open and available for anyone to critique or do their own study to replicate or disprove it. However, you're welcome to eat bowls and bowls of menudo if you think that will help you digest the information.
What I merely suggested is that the supplement manufacturers should be required to spend more than the pittance that they currently devote to generate real evidence to support their claims. Some safety studies on the megadoses that are commonly sold would also be nice.
But, since you know so much more than I do about vitamins, perhaps you could answer a question for me.
I'm taking 2000 IU of vitamin D3 daily because my body just doesn't seem to retain much of it. And, as discussed above and mentioned on the bottle, "vitamin D is essential to Calcium absorption and can help maintain healthy bones in adults." I'd certainly like to keep my bones healthy so that I can continue taking those morning walks and enjoy a lot of other activities as I strive to make it to 83.6 or better.
But, the bottle also states "vitamin D also assists in maintaining a healthy immune system*". The * of course refers to this statement, which is SOP in the supplement business:
So, to my question, how does vitamin D3 help maintain a healthy immune system? And, for extra credit, what is the best study demonstrating that it in fact does so?
I’m not knowledgeable enough to fully criticize this article; for all I know, the article’s findings may have merits
It was published through a journal from the MDPI stable. Now I am sure that many fine papers have appeared in those journals, but after the "everything-is-spirals" debacle at LIFE, and the special issue of quantum-coherence-homeopathy in WATER, then extra scrutiny might be a good idea.
I didn't mention the repeat episodes of bafflegab and crankery published through ENTROPY (e.g. Samsel / Seneff glyphosate quackery), because giving a journal a name like that is fair warning to readers that it's intended for bafflegab and crankery.
Where is this "tagging" feature of which you speak?
poor sanitation, i.e., open defecation
Not defecating has health hazards of its own.
""how does vitamin D3 help maintain a healthy immune system?
I have no idea. I just know that most of it lying around here is filled with corn and soy oil (which I'd avoid out of principle now, even if it were really safe and had no GMO residuals in it) so that I stand out in the sun every now and again, looking up at it, and like a stupid newborn chicken do I just drown with my beak open when it starts to rain. Again and Again. Repeatedly. -- reincarnation is a mitchum, I guess.
as for whatever this is, (-)-(S)-α-ethyl-2-oxo-1-pyrrolidine acetamide -- sounds like you're a little bit 'jerky'... try cannabis. No, wait...The only risk of 'car accidents' you're likely to have is taking unfamiliar routes which are now congested by others doing the same to avoid a 'safety check' somewhere...so, stick with the devil you know, I guess.
Yah, Keith, you might want to try reading your source to figure out why, not that "thin bones" are a really a hallmark of rickets in the first place.
Perhaps you could address the association with extended breastfeeding, though.
Holy Christ, you're stupid.
I certainly wouldn't want to miss your explanation of what this has to with your actual #580, because it has to be even more comical than the obvious one.
The ignorance of the various incarnations of Timmeh is astonishing. But that may be deliberate. He may want to have it appear that Keith Bell is not the most ignorant commenter on this thread.
He might have to work a bit harder though.
"Oh my [G-d] Almighty! Someone has sent me a BOWEL MOVEMENT!"
Oh, wait, "Timmeh" was Tim? (*plonk*)
Thanks.
@ Narad:
At least he hasn't figured out that we're in Hobart...
Oooops!
It’s been known anorexia is high in archaea
I had not previously heard of archaeobacteria refusing to eat.
"So, to my question, how does vitamin D3 help maintain a healthy immune system?"
It's about activating innate immunity, balancing flora which interact with the immune system. Vitamin D3 is required for intracellular calcium absorption which then activates B and T cells and macrophages. Intracellular calcium also required for bone mineralization.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3256336/
Benefits of Vitamin D
http://www.healthline.com/health/food-nutrition/benefits-vitamin-d#Dise…
Lady, you must be psychic. I happen to know, via a deep, dark corner of the Internet, a case of someone who eventually reached such a low signal-to-noise ratio as to invite no further comment other than speculation upon his life in Hobart. Indiana.
Speaking of inbred Germans of Hobart, it's interesting to note both large-headed, autistic geniuses suffering indigestion, Darwin and Einstein, married their cousins:
http://io9.com/5863666/why-inbreeding-really-isnt-as-bad-as-you-think-i…
Inbreeding along with pig farming may be factors for Utah leading the USA in autism, 2012. Inbred Iceland's skyrocketing autism rate has increased seven-fold since first measured in 1977.
The remainder of this thread through 1,000 comments will be focused on inbreeding; more conducive to this close knit group. Denice, please begin the discussion about Charles II of Spain and his large tongue.
There's a shocker.
Mr. Bellend, are your gut microbiota so out of whack that you thought people couldn't actually read this? Show me even one successful, direct exercise in connect-the-dots from Youssef et al. that gets you to... well, fυcking anyplace.
Keith, I will be fascinated with your reconciling of "2012" with "2014." Please be sure to include state spending on early diagnosis as a covariate in addition to pig- and sibling-fυcking.
You’re all acting like a family of laughing, yawning hyenas
The old observation about poker comes to mind. If everyone in the room is laughing, but you haven't worked out who the clown is, it's probably you.
I'm gone for two days and the Bell is still ringing. What a glutton for punishment.
Inbred Iceland’s skyrocketing autism rate has increased seven-fold since first measured in 1977.
This would make more sense if the rate of consanguinous marriage in Iceland had also increased seven-fold since 1977.
Matt Carey noted that the proportion of autism diagnoses increased within a specific age cohort:
-- demonstrating how reported rates are dominated by shifting diagnostic criteria and closer scrutiny.
Not until Große Sperma says so, of course. I'm sure that his fictitious Florida corporation has a laboratory "team" at the ready to screen Finnish samples, though.
I have, however, omitted one eminently relevant historical artifact:
Keith, could you provide a gut–brain analysis of the lone novel by Richard Fariña? I mean, it's all right out there, with salad forks and everything.
Keith:
Citation needed, or I'm going to have to agree with Johnny @ #589 that you're a crank.
factors for Utah leading the USA in autism, 2012.
Keith, I will be fascinated with your reconciling of “2012” with “2014.”
I note for the record that both reports collate a snapshot of diagnoses from four years previously; that is, there are snapshots from 2008 (for 14 states) and 2010 (for 11 states). It is nugatory to write of " Utah leading the USA in autism, 2012" -- or even of Utah leading 11 states! -- for those data have not been published yet.
Keith, could you provide a gut–brain analysis of the lone novel by Richard Fariña?
You mean Gnossos' constipation, and his flatmates' determination to have the resultant epic turd cast in bronze?
The Whackyweedia informs me that there was a 1970 movie version of BDSLILLUTM. A remake would be nice.
@ Shay
To paraphrase a French website proposing entertaining riddles:
Il y a ceux qui raisonnent, et il y a ceux qui résonnent.
Keith,
Your main (only) point seems clear to me, but you haven't provided any evidence at all to support it. I simply don't understand why you have come to your beliefs about gut flora and rickets. The only real reason I'm bothering to engage you is that I'm curious about this odd fixation you seem to have acquired.
Some children are born with vitamin D deficiency because their mothers are vitamin D deficient. Why would anyone think there is a connection with gut flora? Or gestational diabetes?
Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the history of rickets, the discovery of successful treatments, and its causes. Here's an interesting article on the subject. Some apposite passages:
How is any of this consistent with your gut dysbiosis theory of rickets? Why would rural Polish children and "children who lived in squalor in Asia and India" have healthy gut flora while those living in cities did not? Do sunlight and cod liver oil somehow produce healthy gut flora?
Here's another paper, from India, that throws more light on the causes of rickets in South Asian people. Some more apposite passages:
I hope the mangled blockquotes are clear enough, sorry.
We've swapped Kerbiozen's [/blockquote] tag for a nested indentation! Let's see if he notices!
@Tim,
The drug is leviteracetam, commonly known as Keppra or Kepra. http://www.rxlist.com/keppra-drug.htm
I've been on medication to control seizures for almost 40 years now. This is the fifth medication I've used and has the best results with the fewest side effects of all. I wouldn't switch to a different medicine without an excellent reason and a very careful consultation with my neurologist.
@Robertapate,
Thanks for the link. It's a good basic starter reference, although it doesn't have much specific to say about the role in immune health.
The link about the vitamin D trial in children was interesting
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20219962
although the confidence interval for the relative risk reduction (0.34 - 0.99) was barely significant.
@ Narad:
I'm not psychic. -btw- wrong Hobart.
My eponymous 'friend' lives in Tasmania: I hope she suffers no harassment because of my activities.
BUT it appears our visitor has discovered the deepest, darkest secret of RI's minions.....
INCEST!
Right. We're all cousins.
http://eusa-riddled.blogspot.co.nz/2012/11/inter-disciplinary-research-…
Interesting query.
Quasi-coherent counterspin enthalpic superstrap swap?
I could live with that. A small part of it. Idk why this value, 6667%, is on all the vitamins from the single thiamine and riboflavin to the Malwart** b-complex ones. I just mix the T and R up in a bucket and make 10 doses outta a couple caps.
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**Malwart -- Your one-stop, stupershoppe*** for cheap, plastic multivitamins.
***NOT to be confused with The Vitamin Shoppe (unless I'm talking about their dysfunctional website) which every now and again have knowledgable employees who can direct one right past the rows of RDI and right to the monomethionate and other obscure woo of which you seek.
@ Helianthus -- c'est drole.