Antivaccinationists like Holocaust analogies. I've described this particularly loathsome phenomenon more times than I can remember, most recently when Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. compared the "vaccine-induced autism epidemic" (vaccine-induced only in RFK, Jr.'s imagination and that of antivaccinationists) to the Holocaust. True, even he was forced to apologize, although it was a classic "notpology":
"I want to apologize to all whom I offended by my use of the word holocaust to describe the autism epidemic," Kennedy said in a statement. "I employed the term during an impromptu speech as I struggled to find an expression to convey the catastrophic tragedy of autism which has now destroyed the lives of over 20 million children and shattered their families."
In other words, the "vaccine-induced autism epidemic" is as bad as the Holocaust, but I won't use the word anymore because it offends people who know what a real Holocaust is. Of course, this is not the first time RFK, Jr. has used Holocaust analogies with respect to vaccines. He did it two years ago and, for all I know, has been using such offensive analogies for much longer.
Unfortunately, as you might remember (and as I've described before), RFK, Jr.'s not the only one who likes Holocaust analogies. For example, Heather Barajas caught some justified flak for photographing herself and her child wearing badges shaped like a syringe juxtaposed with photos of Jews in Nazi Germany forced to wear yellow Stars of David:
Heather Barajas comparing her plight to that of Jews during Nazi Germany.
Yes, because under SB 277 nonvaccinating parents will be treated exactly like Jews during the Holocaust. And she was surprised that the uproar was so great that she was forced to take it down!
The reason I mention Heather Barajas is because I found similar rhetoric from a source from which, believe it or not, I had not expected it. I'm referring to Dr. Bob "I'm not antivaccine" Sears. You remember Dr. Bob. Ever since SB 277, a long overdue bill that would eliminate nonmedical exemptions to school vaccine mandates, was introduced in the California legislature, Dr. Bob has been agitating against it. In particular, he's been blowing what I like to call antivaccine dog whistles, in which he couches his opposition in terms of "health freedom" and "parental rights."
This time around, he's sounding just like Heather Barajas on his Facebook page:
DR. BOB'S DAILY:THE VACCINE WHISPERERSSo, I've been getting a lot of new patients. Well, refugees really. Patients...
Posted by Dr. Bob Sears on Tuesday, June 16, 2015
Here's what find interesting. Dr. Sears claims that he's getting all sorts of new patients due to the fear that SB 277 will be passed and these patients' parents will lose their personal belief exemptions and because Orange County pediatricians are now apparently putting their feet down and kicking non-vaccinating parents out of their practices. Dr. Bob brags about how he accepts them totally:
Each time I meet one of these new families, I can see the scars. The fear. The uncertainty. Even in MY office. It's as if they can't yet believe there's an office who will accept them. As I ask each new patient what brought them to my office, they look around the room (not sure what or whom they are looking for - listening devices, hidden cameras, Child Protective Services? Their previous doctor? A state Senator?). They fidget with their hands, and whisper "We didn't want to vaccinate."
When I tell them they are completely welcome here, that about half my patients don't vaccinate, and that they are in good company, I can see all the tension leave and the relief flood into them. It angers me to see how other doctors, sworn to serve these families, have made these patients feel. It's so far outside the Hippocratic Oath that I don't even know what to say.
So what's Dr. Bob complaining about when it comes to SB 277? If what he is saying is true, SB 277 has been a boon to his practice thus far. No wonder he's been appearing at anti-SB 277 rallies. It's free advertising. One wonders if our other favorite southern Californian antivaccine pediatrician, Dr. Jay Gordon, is registering a similar influx of new patients into his practice. Indeed, it looks as though he's gearing up to become a go-to doctor to support parents' applications for nonmedical exemptions:
I believe that this bill will pass and will most likely be signed by Governor Brown. If it does, medical exemptions will be the only option for those who would like to vaccinate slower or not at all. These exemptions will not be difficult to justify in most families.
In other words, depending on the requirements for medical exemptions, Dr. Jay (and no doubt Dr. Bob) are all set to do whatever the law permits to get nonvaccinating parents those medical exemptions they so crave; that is, if Governor Jerry Brown doesn't betray California's children again and find a way to graft a religious exemption onto SB 277 if it passes, the way he did for a previous effort to tighten up the process for obtaining nonmedical exemptions.
You'd think Dr. Bob would be happy, but he's not. In fact, he's so unhappy that he's echoing almost exactly Heather Barajas' offensive comparison of herself to Jews wearing yellow Stars of David during the Holocaust:
So I tell them they don't have to whisper. They can say it loud and clear, with confidence. Ya, I guess you don't want to advertise it around the neighborhood - that will come soon enough. Scarlet "V" anyone? No, not scarlet. Let's make it yellow. And not a V - a star would be better. That way everyone can know at first glance who is safe to be around and who is not. That way, if your old doctor and his children are walking down the street, they can easily identify your kids and quickly cross to the other side before they get too close.
Ask your Assemblyperson which color and shape they think would be most appropriate.
I knew Dr. Bob was low, but I didn't realize how low he would go. Note his reference to a yellow star and how that star would be used to allow people to identify unvaccinated children, so that they could cross to the other side of the street and avoid them. It's painfully obvious to anyone with even a perfunctory knowledge of Holocaust history that Dr. Bob is referring to the yellow star of David, and during the Nazi reign good Germans would indeed shun and avoid Jews wearing the yellow Star of David because Nazi propaganda taught Germans that they were subhuman, untrustworthy, and enemies of the Reich.
Then, Dr. Bob gets as disingenuous as disingenuous can possibly be:
Disclaimer: This post is not intended as a reference to a holocaust. Rather, it's intended to raise the issue of prejudice and discrimination. Others have likenend vaccine injury to a holocaust. Instead, we are talking about families who choose to not vaccinate. No holocaust here.
Yes, RFK, Jr. and others have likened "vaccine injury" to the Holocaust. So what? It's no less offensive to liken parents who don't want to vaccinate to Jews under to Jews in Nazi Germany forced to wear the yellow Star of David. When Dr. Bob says, "no holocaust here," he is being so irritatingly smug and disingenuous that, for all its occasional excesses, I wouldn't mind seeing the Jewish Antidefamation League (ADL) give Dr. Bob a piece of its mind. The worst part is that Dr. Bob knows the history, but his sense of perspective is so warped that he is willing to make an offensive comparison between nonvaccinators and the Holocaust (because, you know, keeping children who are not vaccinated out of school is just like sending them to the camps). Or, as a meme I saw floating around put it:
Because vaccine mandates are exactly like what Hitler did to the Jews!
Let's not forget. During World War II, the yellow Star of David was intended to allow the easy identification of Jews in order to facilitate the state-sanctioned persecution, not just by the state but by regular German citizens, who would shun and/or abuse them. You see the hyperbole. Reasonable people do. Dr. Bob, apparently, does not. Or maybe he does, given how he puts that weaselly addendum on his post.
I congratulate Dr. Bob for having joined the august company of the antivaccine ranks at Age of Autism, where "media editor" Anne Dachel once compared nonvaccinators to the Jews of Budapest in 1940, suggesting that the names of nonvaccinating families be made public to…the Jews of Budapest under Nazi rule. Because, you know, what antivaccinationists face today is just like what the Jews of Budapest and elsewhere in the Third Reich faced, a post so bad that she appears to have taken it down.
I congratulate Dr. Bob for having used the same rhetoric that a The Healthy Home Economist did when she wondered whether the "nonvaccinated be forced to wear the modern equivalent of a yellow Star of David at some point in the near future?
Finally, I look forward to Dr. Bob joining the company of such esteemed kooks as Mike Adams who in February wrote a post entitled When MEDICINE becomes MURDER: America's vaccine narrative now mirrors Nazi eugenics propaganda, which I discussed not long after it came out. This one is bad, even by Adams’ standards. It features a 1938 German propaganda poster of the “ideal Aryan family,” all blond-haired and blue-eyed sitting on the beach in the perfection of health and compares it to a Pennsylvania poster that shows people showing off their vaccine bandages and reads “Earn your stripe!” It's the logical next step, once Dr. Bob decided that using Nazi analogies about vaccine mandates, while claiming not to be using Nazi analogies about vaccine mandates, was a good idea. Then perhaps we can expect him to start echoing Mike Adams' other despicable trope, namely that vaccine mandates racially discriminate against African Americans and are even "genocide," a word he uses 12 times in his post.
Congratulations, Dr Bob! I now know that you have not a hint of honor and have gone all in with the antivaccine movement. After all, likening vaccine mandates to Nazi Germany and nonvaccinating parents to its primary victims, the Jews, is a powerful (and misguided) antivaccine message. Only the hardest of the hard core antivaccine activists use it. Since you've used it now, you might as well just drop the pretense and let your antivaccine freak flag fly high in the breeze for all to see!
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Well, discrimination based on prejudice is very bad, no question here.
But discrimination based on specific facts, and moreover, discrimination done to grant access to specific area? That's not the same thing.
I prefer to go to restaurants whose owner took the pain to discriminate against Typhoid Mary.
The only ones making martyrs of antivaxers are themselves.
Bob Sears having used identical imagery to the persecution of the Jewish under the Hilter regime and compares that to anti-vaccinators, turns around and tries to claim that there was no intended reference to the Holocaust?
Of course there was and Sears knows that. What an intellectually bankrupt charlatan.
Of course, at bottom this is all just more advertising for Sears.
"I'm not saying it's like the Holocaust, but it's just like the Holocaust!"
Keep it classy, Dr. Bob.
@ChrisP
Yep. I mean, what is Dr. Bob going to say? "Oh, I wasn't talking about those yellow stars used to identify and discriminate against Jews during WWII. No, I was talking about just some generic yellow star that's much more fashionable than a big V."
You beat me to it, Orac. I was planning on a Dr Bob pillory piece when I first saw this, but I was too slow.
This is about as despicable and deplorable as a person can go. And Dr Bob takes care of children (lots of them, if his rant is to be believed), which scares me the most.
Actually, Skeptical Raptor beat me to it, but that didn't stop me. I just linked to him. Pile on! The more, the merrier!
I will second Helianthus' idea that easier identification of unvaxxed folks might be e societal benefit. I wonder if Dr Bob would be creating a skull and crossbones emblem for wide distribution among his patients and their parents.
@MikeMA #7
Little kids associate a skull and crossbones to pirates, and think it's neat. That's why the symbol for poison is "Mr. Yuck," kids will stay away from that.
/nerd
fusilier
James 2:24
@fusilier
Point taken. No pirates.
"I don't always make references to the Holocaust, but when I do, I deny it." Dr. Bob
I would oppose any law forcing people to wear a symbol indicating that the are not vaccinated. While it would potentially help improve public health/safety, I also highly value the protection of private health information. Not to mention it would play right into their narrative.
BTW, judging by the comments on Dr. Bob's FB post, the disclaimer was added after the fact, when even some of his supporters felt somewhat offended. The disclaimer apparently placated them.
Half the families in his practice are non-compliant with routine vaccination explains why it was one of the patients in Dr. Bob's practice who was the index case in the January 2008 measles outbreak in California.
@Todd W.
Tongue in cheek on the badges of idiocy. I really do value the privacy laws we have over medical data.
As someone on the autism spectrum, there are no words that are not profanity for RFK Jr. Autism did not destroy my life.
It strikes me that there are two separate analogies here. The current one is a 'oh, we are so persecuted because we refuse reasonable public health measures so might have to find alternate schooling'. The 'kids being diagnosed with autism and that's totally like being gassed to death by Nazis' is a separate offensive Holocaust analogy.
Oh no, surely Dr. Bob was merely referring to The Sneeches, that beloved Dr. Seuss story about discrimination.
In this scenario, SB227 plays the role of the nefarious Sylvester McMonkey McBean, converting what was once a label of prestige and 'doing your own research' into a sign of idiocy.
Re: Dr. Bob's statement "It’s so far outside the Hippocratic Oath that I don’t even know what to say.,"
According to Wikipedia, the "modern" Hippocratic oath includes
" and
Dr. Bob doesn't seem to adhere to either of these, though I'm sure he has some cheesy rationalization that says likewise.
Also, Dr. Bob seems confused about who the "patient" he's serving actually is. He comes across as believing that the parent, rather than the child, is the "patient" the child.
At any rate, it doesn't seem that Dr. Bob is in any position to level accusations of being "outside the Hippocratic oath" at anyone.
I'm not surprised when online marketers like Mike Adams dial up the hyperbole re: the Holocaust ... though it's ironic considering the "medical" experimentation, e.g., MMS, some AoA type parents perform on their autistic child(ren).
But an MD resorting to this type of specious, offensive foolishness?
Given the rather obnoxious arrogance I've seen in numerous anti-vax comments, etc., I have a hard time buying Dr. Bob's
tale.
I’m not surprised when online marketers like Mike Adams dial up the hyperbole re: the Holocaust … though it’s ironic considering the “medical” experimentation, e.g., MMS, some AoA type parents perform on their autistic child(ren).
My only quibble with this is that you are being generous by not putting "experimentation" in scare quotes. The purpose of an experiment, however foolish or misguided, is to acquire knowledge of some phenomenon. To avoid a gratuitous Godwin, I'll make the Biblical analogy that even tax collectors, who were justifiably hated in those days, do this. I have seen no evidence that the sort of people prone to trying MMS or other autism woo are making any effort to learn from what they are doing. On the contrary, they keep buying the stuff, despite the lack of visible improvement in their children's condition.
Not sure if you are joking or I was unclear (would not be the first time), but I do NOT propose to make non-vaccinated people wear anything to identify them.
I was actually pointing out the opposite, how asking people to fulfill some conditions before allowing them in some place is not the same as branding them with some visible mark of infamy.
As a pediatrician who daily sees the harm Robert Sears, MD, FAAP has wrought upon vaccination rates (as well as the false fear he has planted in many parents' minds), it shameful to see there is no bottom to the level of low that Sears will stoop to make a buck and whore for fame.
I would submit that the entire execrable Sears clan is just as guilty of being anti-vaccine and selling out for fame and fortune with complete disregard for the health of children and the public at large. That would include Dr. William Sears (the paterfamilias/i> of the gang , Martha Sears RN (his nurse spouse), and brothers (Drs. Peter and Jim) with whom Bob Sears works in the same office space in Capistrano Beach California. They are all profiting rather well from this, and they get to sit back and let Bob do all the talking and take all the blame.
Why do I say this? (1) Sears' "vaccine book" is part of the "Sears Family Library"--that would have been a family decision to allow that anti-vaccine book into the "library" of children's health books. (2) Bob Sears clearly doesn't work 24/7 seeing his own patients, so his father and brothers must cover for his patients at times. That type of non-vaccinating parent of Bob Sears would not stay with Sears if the other Sears doctors actually tried to convince that parent to vaccinate. (3) Not once have any of them said a thing against "Dr. Bob". Not once. Clearly they are complicit and go happily along "Dr. Bob"--making them just as guilty as he is.
I do believe, just like with Age of Autism, that Sears Pediatrics & Family Medicine deserves to be called a wretched hive of scum and quackery--earned by what they have done to vaccination rates in the US and what they say to oppose any efforts to correct their harm.
As a pediatrician who daily sees the harm Robert Sears, MD, FAAP has wrought upon vaccination rates (as well as the false fear he has planted in many parents’ minds), it shameful to see there is no bottom to the level of low that Sears will stoop to make a buck and whore for fame.
I would submit that the entire execrable Sears clan is just as guilty of being anti-vaccine and selling out for fame and fortune with complete disregard for the health of children and the public at large. That would include Dr. William Sears (thepaterfamilias of the gang , Martha Sears RN (his nurse spouse), and brothers (Drs. Peter and Jim) with whom Bob Sears works in the same office space in Capistrano Beach California. They are all profiting rather well from this, and they get to sit back and let Bob do all the talking and take all the blame.
Why do I say this? (1) Sears’ “vaccine book” is part of the “Sears Family Library”–that would have been a family decision to allow that anti-vaccine book into the “library” of children’s health books. (2) Bob Sears clearly doesn’t work 24/7 seeing his own patients, so his father and brothers must cover for his patients at times. That type of non-vaccinating parent of Bob Sears would not stay with Sears if the other Sears doctors actually tried to convince that parent to vaccinate. (3) Not once have any of them said a thing against “Dr. Bob”. Not once. Clearly they are complicit and go happily along “Dr. Bob”–making them just as guilty as he is.
I do believe, just like with Age of Autism, that Sears Pediatrics & Family Medicine deserves to be called a wretched hive of scum and quackery–earned by what they have done to vaccination rates in the US and what they say to oppose any efforts to correct their harm.
@Helianthus #18
Joking.
@ Christopher Hickie
I wasn't aware of the extend of the Sears family involved into the medical field.
Isn't it ironic how AoA people and other antivaxers would go at length about the corruption and mafia-like organization of mainstream medicine, but cannot spot such a perfect example of a "family business" right in their midst?
@ Helianthus
If by "involved" you mean "figuring out how to use their medical degrees to promote woo and pseudoscience for profit and fame", then yes, they are very involved. In terms of "involved" by doing actual clinical research or practicing science-based medicine--I would rate them a 0/10.
Given the strong streak of anti-Semitic sentiment that exists in a lot of the anti-vax cult -- you can't swing a dead cat in their forums without hitting someone blaming vaccines on "the Zionist conspiracy" -- their co-opting of Holocaust imagery is even more disgusting.
There is nothing anti-vaxxers do that isn't disgusting.
If I were a member of the American Academy of Pediatrics, I'd be screaming bloody murder.
Oh, wait! Excellent, caring pediatricians like our own Dr. Hickie already have been screaming bloody murder. And the AAP is too chickenshit to do anything about it.
@Becca Stareyes
Thank you so much for adding your perspective to this conversation. I think that's something that even those of us on the pro-vaccine side of things tend to forget about. We focus so much on one aspect of how disgusting a tactic it is for anti-vaxers to compare their lot to the Holocaust that we tend to forget the other offenses involved in their analogy.
We need a lot more vocal autism self-advocates.
I had a colleague point out to me that antivaxxers are not that big of a deal from a public health perspective if you take into account all that is going on in terms of public health problems. They represent a very tiny sliver of the general population, and there is enough herd immunity to protect them and the rest of us.
While I agree that the attributable fraction of public health problems that can be blamed on antivaxxers is very small, they are a product of a much bigger problem. Because people buy into the lies and misinformation from anti-vaccine groups and people like Sears, Gordon, etc., we have children dying of simple ear infections, vaccine-preventable diseases, etc. We also have parents feeding an industry that preys on the uninformed. Health scams go beyond health. They can be pyramid schemes that bankrupt people.
And don't get me started on Andrew Wakefield and friends whitewashing the brutal murder of a child at the hands of his mother, or the jerks who dare say that shaken baby syndrome is from vaccines and want convicted murderers to walk free because of their crazy ideas.
As a public health professional, I shudder at the thought of Sears concentrating so many unvaccinated children and their clueless parents in one practice.
@Ren
But why? It's not like an outbreak could start in his practice because of an unvaccinated child bringing a pathogen in. That could never happen.
It would be interesting to see what would happen, should a child with measles take a trip to Dr. Sears' (or Dr. Gordon's) waiting room.....
Would he provide the contact information for his un- or under-vaccinated patients to the health department? To use Sears' logic, would he "snitch"?
This Holocaust and Star of David stuff has gone on long enough that it has gotten old and cliched.You do have to wonder why families of Holocaust survivors and the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum have not spoken up about it by now.Loudly and publicly.
Speaking of old and cliched,AoA is resurrecting the hoary old zombie of a story that Shaken Baby Syndrome is really vaccine injury.
Those people really need some fresh ideas.The old stories just aren't working anymore.Are the antis running out of new recruits?If the quality of the trolls we are getting around here are any indication,I'm looking at you Johnny boy,it looks like they are.
Ren
You posted 27 when I was typing.
Todd W @ 26
We do not just need autistic self advocates to speak out in favor of vaccines.That is not enough.Antivax parents can see right through high functioning autistics with no medical comorbidities.What we need are autistic adults,who have both autism,and serious,complex medical conditions to speak up in favor of vaccines.Those who can say "I have the same medical issues as your kids,but I was born with them.Vaccines did not cause my problems."Looking around I don't see anybody else besides me.
Todd W@11:
Absolutely agree. OTOH, I do think there should be a law requiring general physicians to publish the percentage of electively under-/non-vaxxed at their practices, because all patients deserve to know if they're walking into a potential cesspit of communicable diseases whenever they go for a checkup.
As for Dr Bob, I bet he looks good in a Polish uniform.
I'm sure that Ren notices how of the many public health dangers we write about appear to be concentrated in- or within a short drive**- of Austin Texas:
AJW et compagnie, Adams ( Cedar Creek), Jake Crosby
( Univ of Texas), Alex Jones, Null ( Mineola) and Dr B ( Houston). Probably others.
** short drive by Texas standards
Dr. Bob and family are the perfect example of why limitation of vaccination exemptions to medical reasons only, and for those medical exemptions to be subject to state review (as they are in West Virginia, for example), is the way to go.
MANY OF THE
Bob's post for today:
Oh jiminy.
@Liz - what the f@ck.....he's gone completely nutjob crazy.
I have a comment in moderation about the response (i.e., lack of response) of the American Academy of Pediatrics to this guy, in which I used a barnyard epithet -- in particular, a chicken-coop epithet -- to characterize their apparent cowardice.
I suppose the chicken-coop epithet put it into moderation, in which case I'll just have to clean up my act, I guess.
I did also say nice things about our own Dr. Hickie, who evidently deserves to have many nice things said about him, and who I am sure will continue fighting the good fight whether we all cheer him on or not. But cheering can't hurt!
Now he's just trolling, or someone gifted him the medical degree.
They represent a very tiny sliver of the general population, and there is enough herd immunity to protect them and the rest of us.
That might be true if the anti-vax population were uniformly distributed among the general population. But that's not the case. Some areas and schools have noticeably higher concentrations of vaccine exemptions than others--in particular parts of Orange County (where Dr. Sears works), Los Angeles County (where Dr. Gordon works), Marin County, greater Austin (as Denice notes, home to many prominent anti-vaxers) and even Orac's home state of Michigan. At some schools, unvaccinated kids are in the majority--this is one of the issues SB277 is intended to address. So there are places in the US where herd immunity is no longer available. So far, it's only a few areas, but that's been enough that we have had measles and pertussis outbreaks in this country. That wouldn't be happening, at least not on the scale they have been happening, if we had herd immunity everywhere in the US.
He's like a Tea Party candidate saying outrageous things just to get their fan base riled up....it is pathetic.
Just want to say thanks to Roger for being the voice of reason. Keep telling your story, it's significant.
I know it isn't right, but almost hoping some recently exposed but not yet obviously sick kid comes to the event and sheds wild-type virus all over everyone.
I sometimes think if they really believe non-vaccinated sick kids somehow keep all their germs to themselves.
Over the weekend Bob spilled some serious derp over Orthodox Jews being unable to vaccinate because of the porcine circovirus in vaccines.... I've emailed the screenshots to our host.
"Note: no recently-vaccinated kids allowed. We wish to take precautions against viral shedding."
What a jackass. But hey, as long as his cash only empire where he can charge several times the usual rate for pediatric care continues, I get the feeling he DGAF...
What a load of bankrupt argument is there here. RFK's actual comment was 'A Holocaust' a perfectly accurate description of a human disaster. There IS a deal of difference between 'The Holocaust' which has now become the property of the Jewish population and understandably so. But it was unnecessary for RFK to apologise. He did so under political pressure. He had every right to use the word in its properly defined meaning. What a difference an indefinite article makes. If only people cared enough to find out.
That's even dumber than the gelatin routine, the rotavirus vaccines' being orally administered notwithstanding.
#46 Kay Marie
You know it isn't right.... For shame-
@ Rosemary.
OK, so maybe that quote was an example of trying to take back a word so it can be used for any general case not comparing directly to a specific historical event.
But what about the main discussion of Dr Bob and his yellow stars? How does that support that they are only trying to take back the word in the general case to really only mean any bad thing that happened to any people ever, and would never, ever use the imagery of any specific holocaust or in any way refer to any specific one?
@ken
Yep I know we shouldn't try to in anyway give karma any specific instructions as to how we would like to see it play out, but like most people I occasionally get a fit of the schadenfreudes and it would be poetic justice if his posturing to keep his fan base riled up by giving them even more new things to fear exposed itself for the obnoxiousness that it is.
I do feel sorry for all the families that will eventually in all likelyhood have to pay the price for the eventual outbreak.
Oh, dear, is that the stench of an AoA denizen? No, before the Shoah, the usage of the word was almost universally in reference to disaster by fire. Kennedy, Sears, et al., are expropriating the word.
Let's think about what's going on here...
Dr. Bob has been the poster-boy of 'vaccine moderates'. You know, 'I'm pro-vax, but we shouldn't force it on parents' blah, blah, blah. But now he's putting up FB posts with extremist rhetoric. This is just the latest sign that the anti-vax 'middle' has evaporated, leaving only the hardcore loonies among whom Dr.Bob can ply his schtick. It means THEY'RE LOSING!
Yeah, the 'vaccine holocaust' metaphor may play in the OC, where privileged conservative WASPs can whine about their latest supposed butt-hurt by likening themselves to the Warsaw ghetto, but it's not going to over well with Jewish voters who have victims of actual genocide only a few steps away on their family tree, and tend to be sensitive about these things. This is NOT a rhetoric you use if you hope to gather enough support to defeat SB27. It's running for shelter back to the base.
Now, it just so happens that the single largest source of funds supporting the anti-vax cause is The Dwoskin Foundation, which gets its green from the fortune of wealthy real-estate developer Albert Dwoskin, a "liberal Jew" who's tight with Bill and Hill, and also gives a lot of $$ to Democratic political candidates. The driving force behind the Foundation, though, appears not to be Mr. Dwoskin himself, but his wife Claire (nee Sexton), whose personal blog (http://clairedwoskin.com) is all about vaccine danger (all the vaccines, and a laundry list of medical conditions), has an anti-SB277 post at the top of her Facebook page, and whose Facebook friends list includes Dachel, England, Habakus, Heckenlively, Hooker, Olmsted, Stagliano, Wakefield, an assortment of Thinking Moms... and Dr. Bob Sears.
I have no idea how Claire Dwoskin or her husband might feel about ludicrous Holocaust analogies. But I'd guess at least some of Albert's fellow board members in the liberal Jewish lobby J Street might take a dim view of Dr. Bob's post, (and mutter something about Albert having married a shiksa under their breath). If they knew about it. Like if some pro-vax Jews went on the proper web forums to complain about this trivialization of genocide, and wonder why Albert Dwoskin's coffers are funding the spread of this tripe... Just sayin' (hint, hint)...
@ palindrom
Use an exclamation point instead of a lower-case "i" to beat the ch!ckensh!t auto-moderation trigger.
Sadmar @55 --
One can certainly hope so.
A closely analogous thing is happening over in the global warming denial-o-sphere; there's a one-two punch of:
1) a paper coming out a couple weeks ago (Karl et al 2015), which, in the context of a routine observational study, came right out and said that 'The Pause' ("no warming in N years!!!") never really happened (it was never robust, and always smelled of bogosity), and
2) The Pope is due to come out with an encyclical tomorrow, I believe, in which he says global warming is an urgent problem that the world needs to address.
Sites such as Watts have gone into full twitch mode -- the fact that the raw temperature data were corrected for various known systematic effects is taken as prima facie evidence that the scientists are committing a gigantic fraud. Apparently this is all being done so that governments can raise taxes, or assert control, or one-world government, or something ... which is even less plausible, if that's even possible, than the idea that Big Pharma is pushing vaccines they know to be dangerous and ineffective.
The denialist reactions have been so batcrap nutz that one can only hope that the reasonable middle is being alienated.
Sadmar @56 -- Thanks for the t!p.
I think we should thank our esteemed hosts, and other similar folks like the wonderful Sou of HotWhopper, for doing what Bobby Jindal might refer to as "something called ... volcano monitoring?".
But rather than monitoring real volcanoes, which is hot work, they monitor the volcanoes of derp that issue forth from antiscientific loons, so that we don't have to.
It's an important service, and deserving of our gratitude.
"I prefer to go to restaurants whose owner took the pain to discriminate against Typhoid Mary." "hellicock
What an odd thing to say, Typhoid Mary never had any symptoms but was classed a 'carrier'. At that time if you agreed to have your gall bladder out, you could leave prison. Mary decided that she didn't want to do that so chose to die, not of Typhoid I hasten to add.
This kind of Church woo is the kind of thing that prejudices against people with HIV and the like. Next you will be calling for black people to be washed. It's a slippery slope discrimination and you should be ashamed of yourself.
Addendum. Mary chose to die in prison rather than have the operation
Todd W. & Becca Stareyes, thanks for your comments.
I have commented elsewhere about being on the autism spectrum myself. While I wouldn't call what I went through in those less enlightened days always fun. I did grow up to have a mostly happy and definitely valuable career and family life.
My nephew is further along the spectrum than I am. My brother and sister-in-law worked hard to bring out all they could in him, and it wasn't always easy. He is now a very pleasant young adult, a champion athlete and a hard worker. He will always have limits and he will always need a guardian and a guide, but his life has value and meaning and believing that is why they were able to guide him to accomplish all that he has.
I deeply resent the idea that because we are different we are defective creatures whose feelings can be dismissed in the name of torturous "cures", that those of us who are less capable of speaking up for ourselves are silenced because they are presumed to have nothing to say worth hearing, which also happens only a little less to those of us who can and do speak up.'
I am still looking for ways to get the message across to those who most need to hear it.
FTFY, Phildo. Do the people you fleece for "soft tissue manipulation" at the Hope Osteopathic Clinic Essex know about your sympathy for hygiene denialists?
Do you wash after scratching at the corn kernels crusted onto your dong?
The antivaccine doctors make me crazy. They are raking in money hand over fist with their complete lack of morals.
@Johnny at 60 - I am not sure that you are correct. You are correct that Mary was a carrier of typhoid, and locked up to prevent transmission. But she was given a choice before that to stop working as a domestic servant (to stop preparing food for others) before she was incarcerated. She was incarcerated after she changed her name again acquired work as a domestic servant and infected another family. I am not at all correct that she was offered gall bladder removal. I have done some research on her (as a point of interest as an epi) and I don't remember that she was offered surgery as a condition of release. I believe that it was only found out later that typhoid (and some other strains of Salmonella) could hide out in the gall bladder/bile duct and intermittently shed for sometimes years. But I will go back and look it up.
@Rosemary, Although holocaust with a small h can be used that way, and sometimes historians do when referring to earlier ones, my history profs gave us the impression that it's really bad form to use it in any modern relation other than the Holocaust.
@ sadmar:
That's interesting:
I never thought of it that way before but are the leaders of anti-vax more likely to be WASPs ( or at least some variety of Christian) than Jewish or any other religion?
Amongst those who write at AoA/ TMR there are quite a few Anglish names although many of the women may use their husbands' names so you may not be able to tell ( e.g. Helen Conroy is Greek)- Davenhill, nee MacNeil, Limekiller, Spencer, Jameson, Rossi Stagliano, McElroy Dachel, Joyce Goes, Conrick, O'Toole, Van Something Larson, Taylor,. There is a Muslim, Marissa Ali of Malaysia. One is most likely originally from Panama, Thalia Michelle Seggelink. Gamondes' husband is fro Chile IIRC. A few other names stick out amongst lesser antivax mavens.
Offhand, I can only think of one other Jewish family, the Segals, although his wife is a Philipina.
You might want to look at rosters of contributors @ AoA and 'Getting Personal' @ TMR. and perhaps parent presenters @ Autism One.
Palindrome: The Pope is due to come out with an encyclical tomorrow, I believe, in which he says global warming is an urgent problem that the world needs to address.
I've heard about this, and I'm convinced it's some sort of backstab at the few Catholic environmental groups.
Kiiri: Save yourself the trouble, he's lying. I've heard of Typhoid Mary, but this is the first time I've heard of any mention of surgery, and between the fact that Mr. Osteopath would probably be wrong about the weather, and that 18th century medicine was still pretty rudimentary, I think the only source was from his rear end.
Now the opposition to SB277 has teamed up with the Nation of Islam, Brian Hooker, and Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Part the first:
The Breakfast Club Interviews the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan Thursday, June 4, 2015.
http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/Minister_Louis_Farrakhan_9/arti…
Part the 2nd
Sigh.
Here's the text of a flyer that's publicizing tomorrow's event.
Oh -- and fo those of you who don't keep up on this kind of thing, The Nation of Islam is now closely allied with the Scientologists, and have been for a number of years. Minister Farrakhan has endorsed Dianetics, and NOI trains its own auditors.
This is what I wrote to him:
Hours later this post is still bothering me. It bothers me because are you directly trying to compare actions to save little kids to those parents who willfully refuse to do so.
I am Jewish. I was taught by holocaust survivors. I grew up around people who had lost their entire families. I was part of a community in the 1970's of Jews who were still trying to understand a universe in which so many of their direct relatives had been murdered for no reason at all.
For you to compare their almost unendurable pain to people who think doctors, public health officials and thousands of other good scientists are exactly like the Nazis who used Jewish kids like my darling girls for target practice, who gassed innocent people, who ran all over Europe looking for my blood relatives to murder for no other reason than pure evil . . . is for you to cross a line that should NEVER be crossed.
If this parallel bothers me it is you who should think about why it does, not me. It's one thing to disagree with people on this issue. It really is quite another to use a million dead little Jewish kids to score cheap rhetorical points.
Oh dear.It looks like our boy Robert F Kennedy,Jr has finally gotten that little extra push he needed to go all the way off the deep end.He is now firmly ensconced in Adriana Gamondes territory.Thanks for posting this,Liz.
.
Removal of her chronically-infected gall-bladder was one option offered to Mary Mallon. The preferred option was to stop cooking food for people, but she kept reneging on her promises and killing more people each time. Because FREEDOM.
Wow Liz, that's some nuclear-grade craxy. I have no doubt their tactics and rhetoric will be very effective garnering sympathy and support from House members. /sarcasm.
Christina @45
Thank you.That means more than you will ever know.
"FTFY, Phildo. Do the people you fleece for “soft tissue manipulation” at the Hope Osteopathic Clinic Essex know about your sympathy for hygiene denialists?
Do you wash after scratching at the corn kernels crusted onto your dong?" NobRed the red
Again we see the rabid paranoid septic lashing out when he is called out. I have never been Mr Hil and have no idea who he is. I hate homeopathy, herbalism and soft tissue massage with a vengance.
Get some professional help and stop taking those remedies NobRed, it will fall off if you keep playing with it.
#49
Nope, checked with various people I know (all X-tian or former X-tian) and everyone associates the word "Holocaust", especially when capitalised, with a very specific set of events on this side of the Atlantic in the middle of the last century. Nothing else, not even a little bit...
In fact, I cannot recall hearing or seeing the word other than referring to those events.
" URGENT ATTENDANCE REQUEST: LA EMERGENCY TOWN HALL MEETING
HISTORY IN THE MAKING!!! ATTEND TOWN HALL MEETING THURS, JUNE 18th!!
EMERGENCY TOWN HALL MEETING" Liz dunce
Well why don't the CDC come clean - why do they keep fiddling evidence and covering up stats? It makes stupid people like NobRed and Lawrence and co believe their is some conspiracy going down. Just because wackos like the Hubbard crew are getting on board doesn't make the cause wrong and you should be grown up enough to realise it.
Why on earth are you CDC believers when they have totally lied about SARS, Swine flu, bird flu and HPV vaccine?
Next time you eat, make sure your pants are on.
"The antivaccine doctors make me crazy. They are raking in money hand over fist with their complete lack of morals." Kiiri
Well I am sure there are some dodgy ones. But the whole vaccine will save you scam is a far bigger pile of woo. if it doesn't work its , the patient, the process, a dodgy batch, nature has mutated - shares have gone down, unknown women with 'infection' have stayed at theme parks - whereabouts unknown - . There is loads of urban myths about vaccine efficacy, wrapped up in the mists of time, milkmaids and cows, cream and tissues (in NobReds case anyway). So I wouldn't build a sandcastle on vaccine belief. One day the nightmare will end.
ALL THESE ARE DEATHS PER YEAR:
12,000 -- unnecessary surgery
7,000 -- medication errors in hospitals
20,000 -- other errors in hospitals
80,000 -- infections in hospitals
106,000 -- non-error, negative effects of drugs
These total to 225,000 deaths per year from iatrogenic causes!!
I don't see alt med in that list, it was in the JAMA
Must be a slow day at the Hope Osteopathic Clinic again. There seem to be quite a lot of them.
Perhaps Philip Hills has got in early to show his support for David Tredinnick.
Doctors are killing 1000 people a month in the UK
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news…
So maybe we should do something about it
"They were also not assessing patients holistically early enough in their admission so they didn't miss any underlying condition. And they were not checking side-effects... before prescribing drugs."
You see, the report says 'lack of holistic care'. You guys need to start brushing up your act before you pick on case of a sad uneducated family to make a point. And to think all this thread is about is advertising vaccines by using a sad kiddy death to do it!
That's sick
#71
"Given the strong streak of anti-Semitic sentiment that exists in a lot of the anti-vax cult"
Could you cite specific evidence of this? Are jewish doctors involved in making vaccines? If so, how many? Are Big Pharma founding families jewish? If so, how many?
Just whining and playing the "victim" while making vague accusations won't get you very far.
LIz Ditz@39:
Aaaand Poland invades Germany, again.
"http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1127364/"
While we are on doctors killing people as todays theme - how about this. When doctors go on strike the death rate falls.
No surprise to some of us, but maybe a surprise to the one who loves jackin over misery aka NobRed
Break out those tissues old boy
It is the Rothschilds' bid for world domination. Can't you keep up with anything?
Although Tutu has run through several pseudonyms as well as cart00nily insane lies promises – such as driving to the CDC Real Soon Now to consult with Thompson &hdash; etc., she at least isn't a shіtballoon of the water fluid of Philip Hills, Hope Osteopathic Clinic Essex, who is so desperate that he needs to appropriate the pseudonyms of actual people.
I may reply to one of his more recent spunk'o'mments closer to his usual overt Scrumpy O'Clock(s), or I may just remind myself of enough Javascript and XPath to add a pruning loop to the killfile array, whatever.
Since reading Philip "I'm not johnny/Johnny" Hills is really boring, I wish I could put him into killfile. But I don't want to miss Proper Johnny's comments, because he is thoughtful and interesting. ("johnny" is already killfiled, but I can't put "Johnny" in there)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2161869/Top-doctors-chilling-cl…
National Health service is killing 130,000 patients a year in hospitals. Something should be done about it!
29% of people who die in hospital are actively killed by doctors on a 'care plan'.
"NHS doctors are prematurely ending the lives of thousands of elderly hospital patients because they are difficult to manage or to free up beds, a senior consultant claimed yesterday. "
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2161869/Top-doctors-chilling-cl…
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
I suppose NobRed the red would be wholly in support of this 'proper doctor' work. Funny, didn't see any alt med listed here.
I can see the NobRed reaching for the tissues................... it's gonna hurt baby.
As you seen to think I am someone called Mr Hills, which I am not, it kind of explains those doctor mistakes - when they are so obsessed with a 'hunch' rather than clinical facts - they cut off the wrong leg.
Happy days NobRad aka Narad the dull obsessive
I have just run out of tissues, anyone got any?
Johnny Fraudface:
The Daily Mail headline claims that 130 000 patients a year are being "killed" by the NHS. The article doesn't say that. Of course, if you had read the article, you would have known that. The Daily Mail lies again. So do you.
That's it. Orac, NobRed @91 has used yet another sock puppet (aka Johnny, johnny and Phillip Hills). He's a vile troglodyte to boot. Can he please go already?
@Science Mom: I agree. He has nothing note-worthy to say. If Orac doesn't ban him (because he is very lenient for trolls), can we at least have his screeds disenvoweled so we don't have to read them? It's really not fair to Proper Johnny that his name is taken over, and the use of the disgusting sockpuppet nickname he's given Narad is really over the top.
(Note: I believe masturbation is healthy. But johnny/Johnny/Philip Hills has a fixation on it regarding Narad and it's really disturbing.)
I'd like to third the remarks about "Johnny." I'm sick of seeing it.
"Break out those tissues old boy."
First piece of good advice Johnny has given so far.
“Break out those tissues old boy.”
First piece of good advice Johnny has given so far.
ChrisP Your link is dead.infowars.com explains it all.
If SB 277 passes, I wouldn't be shocked to see a flood of billboards by sketchy doctors (if such advertising is legal in California) promoting bogus medical exemptions, much the same way personal injury lawyers advertise. Maybe Bob and Jay can go in on a couple together. Start a network of "easy medical exemption" doctors or something.
@a-non - it'll make it easier for the investigative reporters to go undercover and expose them.
http://www.skepticalob.com/2015/06/dr-bob-sears-serves-his-typical-anti…
A follow-up to #35 above... In my organization, provider bonuses are partially computed with the vaccination compliance percentage of their panel patients!
Sceptical OB, Dr Tuteur also posted this with a link to petition "Dr" Sears to retract this beyond-odious comparison.
https://www.change.org/p/dr-bob-sears-retract-your-odious-comparison-of…
Please take a minute and sign the petition.
"Over the weekend Bob spilled some serious derp over Orthodox Jews being unable to vaccinate because of the porcine circovirus in vaccines…. I’ve emailed the screenshots to our host."
Big sigh from Orthodox Jew here. What nonsense.
@86
"Their plan is euphemistically called "Sustainable Development" which is a code phrase for Population Extermination! The evil gurus of Population Extermination are the New World Order/Illuminati demonic leaders, including Prince Philip and "Prince Charles (and Queen Elizabeth) of England, the (Jewish) Rothschilds who rule the world from the City of London, the (Jewish) Neo-Cons who run the U.S. President, the Senate and the House of Representatives like puppets on a string, and the leaders of almost every country in the world - who are also puppets of the Zionist Jewish elite."
This quote is from 2009 regarding the swine flu "epidemic". No one seems bothered by the author's inclusion of English Royalty. (There is a saying that the ones you CAN'T talk about have the true power.) Specifically, what do you regard to be false in the writer's statement?
Regarding the Red Shields, what in this documentary do you consider to be false, and why:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rtRL0vvUBQ
Everything.
That is why it is hosted on a notorious crank site called whale.to, run by a pig farmer from Herefordshire.
@ #105
It seems that it was a jewish group in Brooklyn that had vaccine compliance problems - before Disneyland. Perhaps they were persuaded by evidence from the "antivaxxers".....
Ultra-Orthodox communities refusing the 50-year-old vaccine were linked to a third of US measles cases last year
BY RENEE GHERT-ZAND December 11, 2013, 12:16 pm
http://www.timesofisrael.com/measles-vaccine-developer-warns-jewish-ant…
@ #86
I want to know why David Axelrod and Rahm Emanuel were not African American.....
@ #104
But what about the planned starvation of 40 MILLION Orthodox Ukrainians in 1933? Do they count? Of course, the U.S. financed and allied with Stalin's deadly Communist regime.
Chapter 8, "The Great Famine."
THE BLACK BOOK OF COMMUNISM: Crimes, Terror, Repression
Courtois, Werth, Panne
Harvard University Press, 1999.
#107
You forgot to comment on the Rothschild documentary.....on Ashkenazi-Russian immigrant startup, Google.
https://thezog.wordpress.com/who-controls-google/
Please comment if this info is incorrect.
I AM CONFUSED! Who should I feel sorry for?
"Beyond Wealth of Jewish South Carolina Lies a Troubling History"
Read more: http://forward.com/articles/205455/slaves-of-charleston/?p=all#ixzz3DX1…
@ Chris P that and how and why anyone would give that much credit to Princes Philip and Charles is beyond me.
Someone over at Skeptical Raptor wanted to know where else he could find anti-vax / anti-Semitic rants....so I'm going to point him over here to Toto....
Yourself.
HDB: So the osteopath got something right for a change, doesn't change the fact that he's still the world's first free-range anus.
A-non: Don't give them ideas.
Please comment if this info is incorrect.
Someone really really really wants attention.
Bev: Petition signed and I posted it to my facebook.
@#108 --
IIRC, the British Royals originally came into the grand conspiracist picture because talking about them was LaRouchie code for Joos.
Little did they then anticipate that the internet would soon be aswarm with Totos taking them literally, I betcha.
The "Red Shields." I really don't even know what to say. People never learn.
Toto, they're not even one of the fifty richest families in the world today. Probably not in the top 100. And they're not exceptionally influential.
Try the Kochs, why dontcha? They're actually, actively scheming to subvert democracy right now. And they might even be Jewish. Look into it. You might learn something about where some of your politics come from.
@ #112
WHAT A COINCIDENCE!
Mr. Cohen's house was built on property originally owned by Toto's ancestors:
http://www.ccpl.org/content.asp?id=15622&catID=6025&action=detail&paren…
"IMAGE: ON RIGHT -- Morton Waring's House. Waring, a wealthy factor, bought the site from Mrs. Ann Middleton in 1803 and built the house by 1807, when it was advertised for sale. The embargo acts of the Jefferson administration adversely affected Charleston business operations, including Waring's. He divided the property into three lots, selling two to the Freemason's Hall Company and the eastern lot, with this house on it, to Mordecai Cohen, in 1811. Cohen bought back the adjoining property in 1818. Cohen, a native of Poland, came to the United States a poor peddler, but amassed a fortune as a merchant, real estate speculator and banker, until, by 1830 he was regarded as "second only to James Adger as the wealthiest man in South Carolina." ln 1825, Cohen loaned his gold dinner service to the City for a banquet in honor of Lafayette."
@Ann
#119
" LaRouchie code for Joos."
What does that mean?
You are just spouting off ASSERTIONS left and right. Please watch the Google video, and point by point, give evidence that what they are saying is wrong. The video gives quotes, references documents, and photos as evidence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rtRL0vvUBQ
I think you mean 7 million. But never mind that. Because guess what?
Believe it or not, the Ukraine Famine was not religion-specific. Jews starved to death during it, too. Including two members of my family.
So thank you for caring.
#120
"I think you mean 7 million."
NOPE.
"the hunger zone covered the whole of Ukraine"
"Nearly 40 million people were affected by famine or scarcity."
"the DEATH toll for the whole tragedy must therefore be nearly 6 MILLION."
p. 167
Chapter 8, “The Great Famine.”
THE BLACK BOOK OF COMMUNISM: Crimes, Terror, Repression
Courtois, Werth, Panne
Harvard University Press, 1999.
"Believe it or not, the Ukraine Famine was not religion-specific. Jews starved to death during it, too. Including two members of my family."
Well, why don't jewish people refer to this evil incident as a Holocaust?
And of course, the AFRICAN slave trade horrors overshadows BOTH.
APEX Express – June 18, 2015 Interview with Dr Sears starts @ ~ minute 24: https://kpfa.org/player/?audio=208591
FTFY.
Well. Numerous people of all faiths do refer to it as a holocaust with a small "h." They also sometimes refer to it as the Holodomor.
But I'm not sure I understand your question. Is there some reason why it would be advantageous for any people to refer to every genocide by the same name as every other?
For example:
Why don't you refer to it as the Holocaust then?
Also, what about the seven million victims of the Ukraine Famine? Don't they count?
And what about the Armenian genocide? The Palestinians? Cambodia? Darfur? The massacre of Poles by Ukrainians? The Srebenica massacre? The Rwandan genocide? Decossackization? Don't they count?
And did I just demonstrate that I don't care about the millions of people who suffered torture, abuse, privation in Maoist China?
And are you really proud of yourself for taking a resentful, competitive approach to the subject of genocide? Do you think that nothing says "I care" quite so well? Or what?
I AM CONFUSED.
@#121 --
I watched about ten minutes of the video before my first reply.
I actually can't imagine it even being possible for a person to know so little about the world he or she lived in that the fact that some 19th-century bankers did business and socialized with some 19th-century monarchs in ways that generally enriched (or otherwise benefited) themselves and some but not all others seems like proof of anything.
It's not the only thing that was going on, you know. It just seems that way if you concentrate on it to the exclusion of all else. But the downside of doing that is that it leaves you ignorant to the point of delusion. So I don't recommend it.
I do wonder why Dr. Bob's comments are getting so much attention.While something like the photo of Heather Barajas Orac ran in February is far more graphic and offensive.This image should have gone viral all over the world.I know Orac and The Poxes are the only blogs that saved this picture.I guess RI does not have enough of a following to have such a graphic photo picked up by larger media outlets?
Maybe if the Dr. Bob story gains a little more traction,the photo and blog post could be shared with the right media outlets.I'm sure there are millions who never saw this picture.
Here is the original post for those who missed it.
@Roger Kulp
Part of it is that Dr. Bob has much more influence. While Ms. Barajas' image may have been more offensive, it lacks the power to influence parental vaccination decisions in the way that Dr. Bob does.
"Holodomor" is the common name for that atrocity here in Canada. There's a memorial installation to it in Edmonton, Alberta, the city where I was born. For what it's worth, "Holodomor" means "death by hunger," as opposed to "holocaust," which means "death by fire," so it's actually a much more appropriate name.
Why are you an antisemite anyway? In today's increasingly-less-religious world where the "Jews are Christ-killers" species of Christianity (that maintains the Jews were responsible for something that first of all never happened and secondly would have been the responsibility of the Romans anyway) is no longer in control of everything, why antisemitism still lingers is beyond me.
@Ann
#127 This should clear up your "confusion"....
"Why isn’t the world recognizing the Holodomor
as an act of genocide?"
"This article was prompted by Minister of Foreign Affairs Borys Tarasiuk’s recent appeal to the international community to recognize the Holodomor of 1932-1933 in Ukraine as an act of genocide. As with his previous appeals, the world did not react to this one. I think that Mr. Tarasiuk, who is an experienced diplomat, was not counting on the success of that hopeless endeavor, just as he had not expected that last year’s appeals to step up Ukraine’s integration into NATO would have any positive effect.
Vivid proof of the unpreparednesss of the minister’s measures is the fact that our own Verkhovna Rada still has not recognized the Holodomor as an act of genocide. So, it was no surprise that in response to some Ukrainian parliamentarians’ appeal to the Israeli Knesset to recognize the Holodomor as an act of genocide, the Israeli parliament said it did not know anything about this genocide. This happened when Kyiv was marking the 65th anniversary of the Babyn Yar tragedy, so our MPs must have expected the Jews, moved as they were by the hospitality of the Ukrainian establishment during the ceremonies, to reciprocate.
I think that those gentlemen from the Verkhovna Rada not only have a rather vague idea about the Holodomor, they also failed to closely follow the events in Babyn Yar. They must have missed the speech delivered by Viacheslav Kantor, the leader of the Jewish communities in Russia, who angrily rejected all attempts to identify the Holodomor with the Holocaust because, in his opinion, the famine of 1932-1993 was not genocidal and that many peoples of the former USSR had also suffered."
http://www.ukemonde.com/holodomor/actofgenocide.html
As an aside, the previously mentioned, BLACK BOOK OF COMMUNISM gives abundant persuasive documentation that the 1933 famine was NOT a mere chance of nature and its victim included a demographic resistant to the new Communist regime. It also gives evidence of a Stalin coverup of this killing field.
Chapter 8, “The Great Famine.”
THE BLACK BOOK OF COMMUNISM: Crimes, Terror, Repression
Courtois, Werth, Panne
Harvard University Press, 1999.
What about this now infamous slave trader with a Sephardic last name?
http://www.amazon.com/James-Dewolf-Rhode-Island-Slave/dp/1626194793
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5042377
https://books.google.com/books?id=QbXbOXiQI7MC&pg=PA38&lpg=PA38&dq=DeWo…
In conclusion, I think we should add two wings to the current U.S. TAXPAYER supported "Holocaust" museums: One for the induced Ukraine famine of 1933 and the other for the Caribbean- American- African slave trade.
Don't you agree?
"why antisemitism still lingers is beyond me."
You might as well ask, despite never-better educational opportunities and the immense knowledge available just one click away, there is still stupidity and ignorance in the world on every topic imaginable.
ann @127
You need to watch the video @121,and skip to 47:44,with the screenshot of Ah-nold.
The theory goes something like this.The Rothschilds want to preserve their wealth and power,they believe they can only do so,by keeping the population of the world below a certain level.In order to do this,they have acquired companies that can control the weather and institute "global spraying".Notice how blatantly antisemitic these pages are.
People like Mike Adams and Alex Jones go on to claim that the Rotschlilds have recruited Bill Gates as their operative to promote vaccines as a part of this "depopulation agenda".Because of all the autism and disease caused by vaccines.Something out little friend Toto here no doubt believes.
@ #135
"Alex Jones"
Is this the guy you are referring to?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmmaU5pL81g
That's the guy.
Have you met Dr. Boob?
Buy his book.
Is there some part of...
...that you don't understand?
@ann
This is, unfortunately, well, a thing among certain segments of Ukrainians, diaspora or otherwise. I can understand the frustration that, in part, it comes from, the frustration of often not being recognized as "real" nation and people, the general ignorance (in the US, at least) about the Holodomor, etc. I don't understand the tendency to complain about the Holocaust taking all the attention or something, though.
It also really doesn't help with the image of Ukrainians, and Eastern Europeans in general, as a bunch of dirty, ignorant, anti-Semitic peasants.
In any case, I don't think Toto seems like anybody worth engaging with even a little bit, personally.
PROVAXXERS, DOES THIS SOUND FAMILIAR?
The Astor School of Business: NO RISK- ALL PROFIT
"The Griswolds of New York owned the ship, "Panama." She carried spelter, lead, iron and other products to China and returned with tea, false cinnamon and various other Chinese goods. The duty on these was extremely high. But the Government was far more lenient to the trading class than the trader was to the poor debtor. It generously extended credit for nine, twelve and eighteen months before it demanded the payment of the tariff duties. What happened under this system? As soon as the ship arrived, the cargo was sold at a profit of fifty per cent. The Griswolds, for example, would pocket their profits and instead of using their own capital in further ventures, they would have the gratuitous use of Government money, that is to say, the people's money, for periods of from six months to a year and a half. Thus the endless chain was kept up. According to Barrett, this was the customary attitude of the Government toward merchants: it was anything but unusual for a merchant to have the free use of Government money to the sum of four or five hundred thousand dollars.[58]
[Pg 80]
"John Jacob Astor," says Barrett in a view of admiration, "at one period of his life had several vessels operating in this way. They would go to the Pacific and carry furs from thence to Canton. These would be sold at large profits. Then the cargoes of tea would pay enormous duties which Astor did not have to pay to the United States for a year and a half. His tea cargoes would be sold for good four and six months paper, or perhaps cash; so that for eighteen or twenty years John Jacob Astor had what was actually a free-of-interest loan from the Government of over five millions of dollars."[59]"
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/30956/30956-h/30956-h.htm
LET'S SEE, forced vaccines (Big Opium), NO LIABILITY. All profit.
Nothing has changed with this business model.
(J.J. Astor's wife is Toto's ancestor! No wonder Toto is so smart!)
#134
semite:
a member of any of various ancient and modern peoples originating in southwestern Asia, including the Akkadians, Canaanites, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs. A member of any of the PEOPLES DESCENDED FROM SHEM, the eldest son of NOAH."
https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=semite&ie=UTF-8&oe…
ANTI-SEMITE:
An evolutionist who denies the Biblical flood account of Noah and his son Shem. Noah and sons Shem, Ham, and Japheth are considered to be FICTIONAL.
"18 And the sons of Noah, that went forth of the ark, were Shem, and Ham, and Japheth: and Ham is the father of Canaan.
19 These are the three sons of Noah: and of them was the whole earth overspread."
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+9&version=KJV
I do understand that. I'm in full sympathy with it. And I don't actually even expect people who have been victimized, preyed upon or oppressed in any way, and then -- on top of that -- ignored to be entirely rational about it.
I'm on their side. They're my kind of people. I don't need persuading.
But...
...You're right. That doesn't help anybody.
#138
Dear Ann,
Frankly, you are shooting yourself in the foot with your comments. You are communicating loud and clear that only Jewish suffering is worth noting, and that Jews are perfect, never having committed a dastardly crime in their LOOOOONG history of living in other peoples countries. PERFECTION by birthright.
Do you have any other fairy tales you would like to share?
Toto always strives to bring you "value added" posts. Documentation and off-beat facts and observations you won't find in the MSM. Plus, a few catchy tunes thrown in for fun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8ifTS5NEsI
Today, I bring to your attention a topic that we are bombarded with daily, but is usually well under our consciousness radar.
It is often called Black Majik or NLP (neuro-linguistic programming). This video is a great overview of how it is used by the MSM to influence YOU. Bloggers also use these techniques: quack quack quack quack......
Get some popcorn and enjoy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rbussqP7po
^ Blockquote fail, I hope, isn't too bad.
That's a Dutch last name, you dolt.
*blink*
My "position" is that I don't know Toto from Adam, and I don't care to, based upon the screeds which I scroll past, which is all I have to go by.
^ But if you feel that there's some sort of utility to commenting upon your intuition (or whatever) that Toto "enjoys" periodic stays in psychiatric hospitals, and you don't mind generally adding that association to the societal perception of perfectly fine people who may have spent time in a psychiatric facility, feel free. It's not like I'm going to stop you.
Toto is someone who makes stupid and ill-informed comments in comment threads in the hope of eliciting a corrective response, and even begs for such responses if they are not immediately forthcoming. That is really all we need to know.
I've killfiled Toto since the rant about a week ago where there were 5-6 posts in a row that made no sense unless alcohol had been involved.
JP, can we at least agree that "toto's" tinfoil hat is screwed a bit too tight?
#147
Dear Ann,
"That’s a Dutch last name"
LOL. I guess you missed one of my posts. The Bristol DeWolfs are in my family tree. I can assure you, this branch wasn't Dutch. Read the book. After being expelled from Spain (1492) and Portugal, Sephardic jews, including DeWolfs, left for countries that allowed them in: France, Holland, Belgium, and later England, via the West Indies and British America, including Canada. A childhood friend was of Sephardic jewish ancestry, whose forebears had been evicted from Spain. The family name was "Wolf".
Once again, you prove my point made in #143.
Grow up.
#153
Dear Ann,
For further clarification on your history, see pages 275 - 276:
https://books.google.com/books?id=B1QAMx2idG0C&pg=PA274&lpg=PA274&dq=Mo…
No, I read it. As your link from #133 plainly states, the Sephardic Jacob De Wolf emigrated to England from Holland, where his parents no doubt lived among many other people with equally Dutch last names because Holland.
There are also plenty of German Jews who have unremarkably generic German surnames. It's quite a common phenomenon. And "De Wolf" is quite a common last name in Holland, Germany and England. It's not usually Jewish.
The Sephardim don't (in fact) actually necessarily always have specifically Sephardic last names. Sometimes they're just regular old Levis and Cohens and Greenbaums.
For connotative purposes, what "Sephardic last name" usually therefore means is "recognizably distinct Sephardic last names" -- ie, surnames of Spanish, Hebrew, or Arabic origin, as in Raphael, Cardozo, Behar, Israel, etc.
"De Wolf" is just a plain old last name. Some Sephardic Jews used it. But so did the eldest son of L. Ron Hubbard, Ronald De Wolf. And so have many other people. Likewise their descendants. It doesn't signify ethnic origin.
The only other example I can think of off the top of my head is Elsie De Wolfe, who was definitely not Jewish.
The reason I mention it is:
It makes exactly as much sense to say that De Wolf is a Sephardic last name because of Jacob De Wolf as it does to say that it's a lesbian last name because of Elsie De Wolfe.
Which is to say: None. It's just a last name.
Whatever happened to the Hitler Zombie?
Dear Ann,
You can speculate all you want, but here are the facts:
Simeon Potter
Marc Antony DeWolf (De Woolf)
James DeWolf (De Woolf)
William DeWolf (De Woolf)
All relatives:
https://books.google.com/books?id=5HbxAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA16&lpg=PA16&dq=jame…
Simeon, James, and William are also listed as slave traders in:
http://www.abebooks.com/book-search/title/documents-illustrative-histor…
"Item Description: 2002. 4 Vols ISBN-13: 9781575887203; ISBN-10: 1575887207 (illustrator). Documents of the Colonial American Slave Trade Donnan, Elizabeth, Compiler. Documents Illustrative of the History of the Slave Trade to America. Washington, D.C.: Carnegie Institute, 1930-1935. Reprint. W.S. Hein, 2002. 4 Volumes. ISBN-13: 9781575887203. Hardcover. New. * These volumes assemble some of the most unique and important documents dealing with the slave trade created between 1441 and the end of the eighteenth century. Donnan utilized printed and manuscript sources from the Royal African Company, the Colonial Office, Spanish archives and the narratives of African voyagers and traders. Bookseller Inventory # 37874"
http://www.abebooks.com/book-search/title/documents-illustrative-histor…
BTW, here is what the CURRENT generation of Rothschild is up to....
http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2015/06/18/exclusive-baron-roths…
"EXCLUSIVE: Baron Rothschild indicted in France over fraud case"
-- Lazarus Long
Borked blockquotes but I'm sure most will follow.
Whyyy is his heeead so biiig?
@ Ann.
De Wolf is not a common German name. I looked at the telephone listings of five major German cities, and found only four. However, it was spelled with two f´s, De Wolff.
Facebook group goes full Godwin on Richard Pan.
Hat tip Harpocrates Speaks.
Worth a read.
"people who boast of ancestry often have little else to sustain them."
Isn't that the justification for modern Israel?
That's why they need U.S. $$$$$$$$$$$$.
Toto is indistinguishable from the other anti-vax anti-semite low lifes.
I have always wondered why these were paired so often.
#167
Sorry matey Chris. Thanks to another Aussie, I am a Creationist. I believe the Old Testament account of the Flood is true. Therefore I believe that all mankind descended from Noah's sons, SHEM, Ham, and Japheth. I believe Shem's descendants are called semites, of which the Hebrews are a subgroup. I do not deny the existence of Shem. I am not anti-Shem.
Are you a Creationist as well?