Discovery Institute honcho Bruce Chapman is upset. In answering a question from a reporter identifying herself as "from a little country, Austria, from Austrian Television," Obama quipped:
It was also interesting to see that political interaction in Europe is not that different from the United States Senate. There’s a lot of — I don’t know what the term is in Austrian — wheeling and dealing — and, you know, people are pursuing their interests, and everybody has their own particular issues and their own particular politics.
Chapman compares this to such Bushisms as "But oftentimes I'm asked: Why? Why do you care what happens outside of America?," or Dan Quayle's belief that folks in Latin America speak Latin. "We know that President Obama knows that Austrians speak German (doesn't he?)," queries Chapman.
But the Great Gizoogle reveals a little thing called Austro-Bavarian, which is "like standard German… but they are not the same language." Furthermore, Austrian German is a standard form of German distinct from the standard German used in Germany; the treaty bringing Austria into the EU recognizes that dialect as distinctive, and protects certain food terms as distinctly Austrian. Thus, we might expect that certain idiomatic phrases would be different in Austria than in Germany, so Obama's quip wouldn't have worked as well had he made it about "German," and the timing would've been off if he had to say "Austro-Bavarian."
I don't mind pedantry (lord knows), but if you're going to be pedantic, you kinda have to be right.
- Log in to post comments
What I really want to know is, what is the term in Oklahoman?
Yeah, and you have some intellectual dishonesty going on there yourself, mister. Chapman did not mention the "why do you care..." statement on the link you provided, and maybe it's because it's late, but I don't really get what's so egregious about that one anyway (it's obviously completely dependent on the context, which is not provided). In addition, Chapman does not compare Obama's statement to Dan Quayle's "belief" that Latin America speaks Latin; he very clearly calls it a Quayle joke which was mis-quoted, but Chapman is not even right about that. In actuality, Quayle never even made the joke, according to Snopes: (http://www.snopes.com/quotes/quayle.asp ) It's just another case of character assassination.
Next up: assuming for the moment that Wikipedia is authoritative source (which I am surprised a man of science would even attempt to float), your selective quoting of the articles to support your opinion is obvious. You quote and provide a link to the article on Austro-Bavarian dialects - pardon the obvious, but just because some parts of Austria (and other countries) speak dialects of an ancestral language called "Austro-Bavarian," it does not establish any basis for the assumption that that language is ever called "Austrian."
Then you provide a link to the Wikipedia article on "Austrian German." You write "Austrian German is a standard form of German distinct from the standard German used in Germany." But the article does not say it's a distinct language, but you somehow got that. In the second paragraph, it clearly states: "Much like the relationship between American and British English, Austrian German is simply another standard form of the German language." Did you somehow miss that? Was that because the article is written in English, but you only speak American? (Disclaimer for idiots: that last sentence was a *joke*.)
Hang on, there's more, but we're almost finished. You then write: "the treaty bringing Austria into the EU recognizes that dialect as distinctive, and protects certain food terms as distinctly Austrian." Hey, you got 'distinctive/distinctly' in there two more times when the actual sentence you paraphrase does not contain it at all. What it *does* say is that a mere 23 agricultural terms from the Austrian *variety* of German are protected. This is so that wherever an EU law refers to a "potato" in English, "pomme de terre" in French, and "Kartofel" in German, it also has to say "Erdapfel," the specific Austrian term. I lived in Austria, I know those two dozen different words that Austrians use for various fruits and vegetables. It does not constitute a different language, it's just that Austrians are conscious of their bit part in the EU, and this was just a small way they could appease the sizeable percentage of the population which was afraid that joining the EU would sacrifice Austrian cultural tradition (as taking the Euro sacrificed the Austrian Schilling).
Next up, you write: "Thus, we might expect that certain idiomatic phrases would be different in Austria than in Germany, so Obama's quip wouldn't have worked as well had he made it about "German" - huh? Did you watch the video? It was not a quip, it was not intended to be humorous, it was just something he said, completely unnecessarily. The fact is, Obama does not speak *any* European language (source below). Instead of saying, "I don't know the Austrian word for blah-blah" he may as well have said "for ANYTHING." Best would have been to not say that at all, to drop the show-off act and speak using standard language and expressions he could expect the foreign audience to understand (a sign of a truly great orator). There is seldom a real need to use slang or regional expressions when talking to an audience of non-native English speakers.
Face it, President Obama is no great orator. He's often excellent when reading off his teleprompters, but he's just average at spontenaiety. He's certainly better at it than his predecessor, but I would hope people would step back and recognize that he's human, and it's childish to make fun of leaders when they fumble words, especially when they are not reading off a prompter. If you had cameras recording every word you said to be accessible to literally billions of people, we'd all fumble a certain amount. But with the incessant (and exaggerating) abuse the Democrats gave George W. Bush (and even his predecessors), they will have to expect a certain amount of backlash.
Wrapping up: "I don't mind pedantry (lord knows), but if you're going to be pedantic, you kinda have to be right."
I agree, and that requires a bit more research than just hitting the great "Gizoogle" to see what sticks. Better luck next time.
Link about President Obama's foreign language skills:
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/07/11/politics/fromtheroad/entry42544…
ToeKnee:
As one who has lived in vienna, they speak differently than germans. viennese speak very differently than their own countrymen out west in voraldberg or tyrol.
also having lived in south louisiana, if i was talking to something like 'cajun tv' there, i would say i dont know the translation of some phrase into cajun french, not french. for instance, lagniappe is a distinctly cajun louisiana french word. in no way could you speak standard french and have it sound cajun.
while viennese german is close to high german (regular germany german), my speaking german to a german is highly accented and there are particulars. especially with phrases like "wheeling and dealing," which by the way is an americanism and not from england or australia or the other countries with which we share a base language
(currently in london- my coworker asked for a "Biro." do you know what that is? dont you speak english? dont feel bad if not, i sure needed a translation)
about obama's language skills: irrelevant. (though i do agree with him, embarrassing). business/politics use english quite a lot; and languages are hard and require repetition, so if ones entertainment and business are delivered almost wholly in ones native language, that impedes ones effective learning of any other languages.
what are bush's language capabilities?
dg:
i hob au in Wean g'lebt. But the question was whether Austrian German qualifies as a different language; according to linguists, it does not. Much like the different varieties of English you mention, the different varieties of German are still German.
about obama's language skills: irrelevant.
and then down few lines:
what are bush's language capabilities?
Conversational Spanish. No big whoop. Let's not confuse the situation by implying that I am/was a fan of George W. Bush. Like the majority of Americans, I would have given him high marks in the months following 911 for the way he kept the spirit up. But since then, I was not impressed.
Chapman's first point is undoubtedly true - if Bush had made the quip, his critics (including you, Josh, no doubt) would use it as yet another example of his idiocy. Conservatives had to deal with stupid things their president said for eight years. Your turn now. Just shrug your shoulders and move on. No need to endlessly defend Obama. He's not the spectacular orator everyone made him out to be.
When I attended public school, there were always crisps on my bonnet.
You are absolutely right. If folks in Switzerland or Austria don't want to be understood by Germans (at least northern Germans) they can speak in their own fully different dialect. After years (literally) of learning standard textbook German in an American high school I could only understand a few of the words in the dialect my Swiss-Volhynian grandparents spoke.