So, you've learned that the Sun is going to explode...

This article is incorrect. The author has been misinformed. The sun is not going to explode. Our sun is not big enough to super nova. It will expand into a red giant and then will collapse into white dwarf. It will then fade away quietly into a black dwarf over an incredible amount of time..

John-117, you are correct. The Sun is not big enough to supernova, it will expand into a red giant and end up as a white dwarf.

But what you miss is that in-between being a red giant and becoming a white dwarf, it blows off roughly half of its mass into a pre-planetary and then a planetary nebula, spewing its enriched gases light years across space. If you want to claim that isn't an "explosion" or "blowing up" that is your right, but I am not losing any sleep by glossing over that detail for a third grader.

This is not a "detail" to be glossed over - it is simply not true. Calling the death of sun sized stars an explosion is misleading and a gross oversimplification. Why confuse and scare children when no physicist or cosmologist would agree with your characterization?

Thanks for stating this in a form easily understood by children, a form giving them the true form of the universe and the part that each of us plays out in our lives and destinies.

When I was a child, it was not yet understood about nuclear synthesis of the elements in the core of a star and in the maelstrom of a nova. It WAS understood that nothing lasts forever, even the sun. I was crushed by the sure knowledge that the sun, the earth, and all the people on it would die and not be remembered by anyone. Intellectually I knew that this wouldn't happen for several millions of years, but that didn't matter...what child can imagine a million years when he can't even imagine a year from now?

It's so nice that the death of a star and even of an entire race would be the precursor of other worlds and other races. Most especially, it's nice that I don't ever have to worry about this happening in my lifetime or the lifetime of anyone I know or could ever know.

Life Is Good!

"The fact that the Sun, our Sun, the bringer of warmth, light, energy, and the sustaining force of all life on this planet, isn't going to shine forever." That is not a complete sentence. I agree with the other comment, it is ridiculous and just plain wrong to assert the sun is going to explode. It will relatively gently blow off much of it's atmosphere and whether these gases ever recombine to form another star is highly uncertain. The sun will absolutely not die in "a fiery catostrophic explosion". Do you think the sun is going to go supernova?! Junk science. Furthermore as the sun sheds mass the orbit of the earth will expand and it is not currently known if it will be obliterated by the expanding atmosphere of the sun. Take a break from teaching if you are just going to confront children with bad science.

There's no reason for the death of the Sun to mean the death of our descendants. One short-term solution would be to move to the vicinity of a red dwarf, where we might extend our tenure to a few trillion years. We have a few hundred million years to get our act together to that end; that should be enough.

Yes Ethan. Yes the details is it or is it not an explosion are unimportant.

Truthfully, I've never heard of any adult or child being upset about the sun dying; but I accept such fears.

All children's fears need to be explained at a child's level of emotional understanding. As well the scientifically correct answer needs to be explained at a child's level of understanding.

Good post.

I'm amused by the commenters who seem to think a common, non-super-nova is a peaceful, non-explosive event. Just because our friend Sol isn't going to out-shine the rest of the galaxy some day, it's going to drift calmly, quietly into the long dark night? I'd think that blowing off half it's mass into a light-years-wide planetary nebula would count as a fiery, catastrophic explosion, even by James Cameron's standards.
It's also funny that John-117 thinks you have been "misinformed." Apparently, talking down to a third-grader is still too steep for some people. Do you think you could restate this article to talk down to internet commenters? That seems to be a much lower bar.

"We are all made of star-stuff." Don't know who to credit for that one, but it sounds like Sagan. I felt really important when I learned this as a youngster. (about when I learned the mnemonic for star classes Oh Be A Fine Girl, Kiss Me (Now!)).
Thanks for the post.

So, the Sun expands to a Red Giant about the size of the Earth's orbit. And the standard answer there is that the Earth is toast.

Except, we're on it. We already have enough physics to move the Earth to a wider orbit, saving it. We take orbital energy from Jupiter using an asteroid in a funky figure 8 orbit for transfer. We'll soon have the engineering to pull it off. Calculations suggest that we have time to make it happen while the Sun heats up. While we're at it, we can save Venus. And when the Sun shrinks into a white dwarf phase, we can reverse the process and get another, what is it?, ten trillion years of comfy use out of the Earth, for a modest amount of upkeep.

The Sun doesn't explode. It's an increase in the solar wind. But it leaves behind a pretty planetary nebula for maybe ten thousand years. We probably won't see it, but our descendants orbiting other stars might. That's what you tell a 3rd grader. Even much older kids are alarmed. Look at Yahoo!Answers if you need evidence.

In his reply to John-117, Ethan notes:

But what you miss is that in-between being a red giant and becoming a white dwarf, it blows off roughly half of its mass into a pre-planetary and then a planetary nebula, spewing its enriched gases light years across space.

Restating Artor's point, IMO anyone thinking this process isn't enormously powerful and explosive - indeed, fiery and catastrophic - by human standards is IMO the one who is misinformed.

Really Artor? No one claimed the death of a star is peaceful, whatever that means. The comment suggesting the sun will "fade away quietly" in it's final evolutionary stage is correct.

Why is it so hard to understand that some stars explode (supernovae) and some don't?
You wouldn't lump these two distinct classes of stars together in a class for adults, so why do it for kids, some of which find it scary? It defies logic.
Facts:
1. Children find the concept of an "exploding sun " frightening.
2. No physicist would agree with this characterization.

Given these facts it is absurd to teach kids this as though it were fact. I would also argue that it is plainly wrong and poor education, but that is largely irrelevant.

So, sidestepping the discussion of what qualifies as "explosive," I'm going to cop to screwing this one up with my son.

When he was five and just starting to wonder about death, my son asked me if the Earth was going to die. Like an idiot, I told him that the Sun would grow into a red giant in about 5 billion years and that when it did, it would either consume the Earth entirely or just burn it into slag.

That evening, I learned that five-year-olds don't do "billions" - especially when applied to years. Four years later, he still gets occasional nightmares about it.

Epic Dad fail.

I'm going to try your approach when my daughter asks about this....

I loved Isaac Asimov's short story, The Last Question. Really, when describing things to a third grader you really can't help yourself but lie. You have to lie in order for him to feel significant in the Universe. Otherwise, you can't just tell him his life is unimportant, irrelevant, that not just him but all people on Earth will die one day - and not only that, but the most astounding fact: that the Universe itself will irrecoverably die one day due to the loss of all usable energy. If it is so, why have children in the first place? You see, there is no point in giving a correct explanation here. The point is to make that child feel significant, needed, wanted. Talking about the end of the world is not a proper way to do this.

Sure we were all born through the inner workings of the stars but this really is not so special. The whole Universe was born by tiny particle fluctuations - care to describe THAT to a third grader? There's nothing special to describe about life because it just dies. And humans? Oh, we just die so soon. Think of the trees, or some strange insects which live hundreds of years. Think of the Universe which lives for billions of years. OK, rant over. Don't take all I've said too seriously :) This is all my mind can produce at 10 PM :)

Can a planet orbiting a White Dwarf support life? Is there a Goldilocks zone around a white dwarf?

Gliss: No, any planet close enough to the white dwarf would be destroyed during the preceding red giant phase.

But let us assume a planet was safely injected in an orbit around a white dwarf. To get enough energy it would have to be so close that stellar tidal forces quickly locked the rotation, with one side permanently in daylight while the other side plummets towards absolute zero, freezing out the atmosphere.

Ethan, when you make this post into a children's book, I will buy a copy. I hope it's soon!

Ethan -- just change "explosion" to "deflagration" in your statement, like this:

" ... the Sun will die in a fiery, catastrophic, deflagration"

and we'll all be happy.

I grok everything you write, thank you for the truth. But it must be a real son-of-a-bitch to type with those fingernails....

Griz

Thanks for this article, bud. It's a good way to talk about the distant future to people who are leaving a traditional religion, too.

I was the one to tell my mother that the sun will explode some day, rather than shine forever. I'm not entirely sure how she took the good news?

Technically, though, the sun explodes all the time. If it didn't, it wouldn't shine. That being said, the sun doesn't need to explode all at once to kill you. You only need too much sunshine, or too little, and it will be the death of you.

So our home is going to catch fire at some point. Okay, who's up for preparing to move?

No seriously, if we're arrogant enough to assume humanity will still be around by the time it gets too hot for life to exist on Earth, let's be hopeful enough to assume that in a few million years humans will figure out a way to survive a ways out from Earth and not mourn the loss of one star too much.

Very nice post. Many Thanks.
I know that is not possible,I would like all of your posts
to be as simple as this one.

Bye!

No physicist would agree with this characterization.

Absolutely wrong. A physicist wrote it, for one thing. Yes, there are different degrees of explosion, but to suggest that anything short of a supernova doesn't count is completely absurd. I would expect that far more physicists would agree with Ethan on this point than would agree with you.

"Otherwise, you can't just tell him his life is unimportant, irrelevant, that not just him but all people on Earth will die one day"

This doesn't follow on.

I can't remember who wrote/said it, but someone said that if life has no purpose and no meaning then all the meaning of life is what we put into it.

When everything is unimportant then everything is equally important.

Just make clear that stars don't literally live.

The point is to make that child feel significant, needed, wanted.

To/by you, not the universe as a whole!

> To/by you, not the universe as a whole!

To themselves! Every iota of worth they have in their lives is the worth of the actions they put into it.

They are the sole captain of their soul, the only one to make their lives worthy, and nobody else can do more than lay out a map of their own travels as merely suggestions of how the child themselves pilot their own course.

""We are all made of star-stuff." Don't know who to credit for that one, but it sounds like Sagan."

That was the first time I'd heard it (Cosmos), though I'd only remembered it when Babylon 5 had Delenn say it.

"(about when I learned the mnemonic for star classes Oh Be A Fine Girl, Kiss Me (Now!))."

I believe, if you're going to include the branches (the Now! one is on one), then you'd use:

Oh, Be A Fine Girl, Kiss Me Right Now (Smack!)

Just stumbled onto your website...really enjoyed your writing. Just wanted to say thanks.Nice hands! You must be hell in bed!

Sandy

I find myself bemused. I recall a 4th grade class studying the solar system, planets, stars, speed of light, etc. Basic stuff. It was my first introduction to the life cycle of stars. The thought that in some billions of years our star, or as we thought of it - THE SUN, would explode was merely another interesting fact, nothing to get excited about. Too far in the future to cause concern.

Where does all this trauma come from?

"We are stardust, we are golden" Joni Mitchell, Woodstock.

> Where does all this trauma come from?

6 billion people.

A one-in-a-million chance happens 6 thousand times.

Why tell a child this? It is useless information that the Sun will die a gazillion years after the child dies.

The ultimate Pay-It-Forward:
"So yes, the Sun will blow up, someday, but when it does, that's the greatest gift any star can ever hope to give to the Universe."

So have you heard the old analogy about if the history of Earth was a day, humans would have only been around for a few seconds? Well, we're talking about an event at midnight TOMORROW.

In the good ending (as much as my primitive 21st century brain can manage) the Earth has been sitting in a museum for billions of years and has produced a handful of other intelligent species as well as countless other lifeforms we can't imagine. Upon seeing the Sun's new status as a giant, Earthlings from countless new worlds will raise a glass in gratitude for its billions of years of service to our species, in recognition of its crowning achievements now, and in congratulations for finally qualifying for a long, comfortable retirement.

In the bad ending we'll have blown up in a much more intentional explosion before Earth's second half has barely started. But you can leave that one out of the seven year old edition.

Is there ANYONE here who believes in God? Not saying science isn't important, but all science is possible through God's creation.

Try and have a little faith. He's bigger than all of us, bigger than the Sun even. Whatever happens, happens for a reason.

If the Sun exploded tomorrow, I will still be saved.

"So yes, the Sun will blow up, someday, but when it does, that's the greatest gift any star can ever hope to give to the Universe. After all, it took billions of stars giving that gift already in order to make you. And you know what?

It was worth it."

Well, one day, a very very long time from now, the last star will die. All life will end forever, and that will be it. It won't not be worth it, but it won't be worth it either. It just won't matter. No satisfaction or regrets for anyone or anything. (Hence why so many people want an eternal multiverse to be true, even though at the moment the evidence just is not there for it to exist.)

This is of course independent from any spiritual beliefs someone may have, which could make it worth it, but in that area for this post I am remaining neutral.

The author is clearly an educator and IMHO (I have kids grandkids great-grandkids so if I am wrong it's not from total unfamiliarity lol)DOES know how to approach kids with potentially terrifying thoughts.

Thanks for another great post, Ethan. Putting something as complex as stellar physics into language that a child can understand isn't easy. There are some concepts they just aren't clear on, so putting it into terms they can understand makes sense. It's kind of like physics itself. The more you understand, the more complex your explanations can become.

Just, honestly, sad to see a couple of trolls here.

Seriously, guys. Ethan knows of what he speaks. Just sad you can't understand adjusting the details of a message to the audience in question.

Hint: To a third grader, the difference between a Nova and Supernova are irrelevant. At that age, it's just one huge-mungeous Fwakoom! Get over yourself.

@ Derek
"Why is it so hard to understand that some stars explode (supernovae) and some don't?"

The part where you equate "explosion" with "supernova -- and only supernova".

Supernova are explosions. Not all explosions are supernova. Why is that so hard to understand?

Already building my bunker...

You can add that we might be one of many (infinite?) universes where we are doing many different things. Also, like the end of a star's life which gives rise to new stars, the end of our universe might give rise to another universe. True or not, I find that more positive. Life and the universe go on...

Lovely and kind are you. Thank you.

I'm a parent and a science teacher of 43 years who believes in God. One of my favorite Einstein quotes is that God does not play dice with the universe. I tell my students that if you love to argue, that's what scientists do (as these posts show). We are blind humans each touching the elephant in different places and loudly arguing with each other about what the elephant really is: a rope, a wall, a tree trunk, a fan, a spear, a snake, ...

@ area504 #36
Show me some evidence for a god that can't be explained by science, and I might start believing. Then you can try to explain why it only proves YOUR god, and not the thousands of other ones. The only reasons to believe in god are bad reasons.

Like the blind men and the elephant, you and I can argue all day about whether there is a God or not. The blind men analogy could include someone who is not touching the elephant. He says that there is no elephant. You choose not to believe. Based upon my experiences, I choose to believe. My reasons for believing in God are good ones.

I was going to say that the obvious consolation for this is in religion, especially one in which the world is not the be-all end-all, but the last few comments about religion ruined it.

But seriously, I do have kids, and we're just reaching the points in their education where this will come up. I like to think they're pretty well-adjusted. We've talked about death. It's kind of matter-of-fact. The death of the solar system might phase them a little, but not to the point of despair.

I do like pointing out that the elements we're made of were born in stars, and that we're fundamentally part of this universe. Thanks for an illuminating post, and I love the graphic of the man made up of the elements. I'll probably show the supernova video to my kids.

Why do we need a consolation in religion? And why do we need a consolation at all? We always seem to fight against the natural outcome of a passing life: death. We fight against the natural outcome of a passing Universe. If eternal life would be the natural outcome of life, we wouldn't need any consolation. Guess what: it isn't. Religion can't change that. My positive thinking can't change that. My life can't change that.

I actually found some good insights in a few comments here, namely that life is important because it is important for me. I am the only valid and perfect judge of my life. If I value my life, it has value. If not, it has no value. I don't need an external judge to compare and weigh my life and say if it's good or bad, if it has value or not. That's why religion is not enough to give sense to life.

Coming back to the main point of life's futility...maybe that's why we don't find a Universe thriving with all sorts of advanced civilizations: they all found out it's all pointless and just ceased to fight to go on, ceased to live against all odds.

Playing with incredibly big numbers might hurt the scientific way of understanding when one does make difference between big and very big. Billions years is the right unit for Earth, Sun and Universe ages. Present estimates for the "life" duration of our star give it a few more billions years, such that it just seems to be in its middle age. Writing with trillions of years does probably not change much to most people mind, but when debating about this being science and that not being it, a minimum concern does care about orders of magnitude (this being valuable as well for a few commentarors).
    By the way, we could also lengthily discuss about the fact that Andromeda galaxy is most probably going to collide our dear Milky Way galaxy « pretty soon », in two to three billion years, mcuh before catastrophic evolution of our Sun, and therefore, we will most probably have to « face » gravitational waves of the tsunami kind, for which I am not so convince that our technology will ever be able to overcome the issue. Huhue ! I say "we", but in fact this will not all be "our" problem. I mean that of the human species. Simply because evolution ! From statistics, a species that has the chance of not being extinct for some or another reason (most of them since Life appraisal ! Keep humbleness), has an evolution duration of only a few⦠millions years, before it must be renamed as a different one, having sufficiently been changed. The duration of a spark among the former astronomical dreadful "fear-y" ballet. Sun inflation, galaxy embrace : who cares ?
    Whatever, tomorrow morning, the Sun will raise over another nice day. Enjoy it ! :-)

I was one of those hysterical children dragging confused household pets under the couch (because that would surely save us!) after hearing that the sun would die out/explode on 3-2-1 Contact.
Once again, you explain everything beautifully. Thanks!

This is a bummer. If the sun's going to explode it doesn't make much to wash the car, does it?

For advanced students, another interesting fact is that several of the elements necessary for human life are transferric, thus they had to have been formed in a supernova and we could not exist until the first debris from a supernova arrived in our solar system. If more supernova debris were to arrive, it might rain gold and platinum, but unfortunately there could be a lot of thallium and uranium in there too and if life were to continue on this planet it would have to re-evolve to tolerate such things.

If the sun is "no more special than any other star in the sky", take it away and those other stars won't seem so special.

Love it when someone talks down to us and yet has no clue.

"take it away and those other stars won't seem so special"

Take a look outside on a dark night.

And look at the milky way.

Now try it in the daytime.

How much has that splendour been reduced because of that one mediocre star?

We already have enough physics to move the Earth to a wider orbit, saving it. We take orbital energy from Jupiter using an asteroid in a funky figure 8 orbit for transfer. We'll soon have the engineering to pull it off. Calculations suggest that we have time to make it happen while the Sun heats up. While we're at it, we can save Venus. And when the Sun shrinks into a white dwarf phase, we can reverse the process and get another, what is it?, ten trillion years of comfy use out of the Earth, for a modest amount of upkeep. The Sun doesn't explode. It's an increase in the solar wind. But it leaves behind a pretty planetary nebula for maybe ten thousand years. We probably won't see it, but our descendants orbiting other stars might.

Dude, we can't even pay for school lunch programs.

But, honestly, I've never been moved by these kind of truths...

@ area504 #36,

There's always at least one of you in a discussion like this. Spewing delusional thoughts about a man in the sky looking over you like a perverted parental figure is not something that belongs on the intellectual scale of this discussion. Please go to a Bible reading or whatever it is you do when you're not actually reading science and spew that vacuous nonsense there.

I personally remember when I first found out the sun would eventually die and I didn't take it lightly. It did effect me to realize the finality of it all...and at that young age, what's the difference between a billion, a million, and a thousand..I mean right now we have a hard enough time picturing just how much space a billion dollars of 100 dollar bills would occupy. I think ultimately, Ethan's solution is novel and will work with most children. Yet, there's always a significant minority who are extremely anxious, and I suppose it helps to take into account the temperament of the child. Perhaps a softer explanation to those children would be better...something like "the sun won't die because every part of it will continue in a different form. Just as the sun converts energy that strikes us as light, it will eventually be converted into other substances and types of energy. In the universe, nothing truly dies...as all the atoms that make up the sun, you, me, bears, snakes, oceans, and everything else that you can see will eventually form new things"

The discussion in the comments of this blog remind me of a good song by the Vandals!:

In five billion years,
the sun will explode,
It's in the bible.

IT'S A FACT.

Richard, your blind men story describes religion, not science. You have some people screaming God, others screaming Allah, yet others screaming karma, and some (with no more or less validity than the rest) shouting about unicorns. None listen to each other. Meanwhile scientists are discussing their observations with each other, comparing notes and discovering that they're actually just dealing with an elephant. I always find it utterly hilarious when the religious use this story, it just underlines the lack of critical thinking they employ :)

I had this conversation a few days ago with my 4th grade daughter. I told the truth, that yes, one day the Sun will boil the oceans and kill our planet. But, it won't happen for a long, long time. And by that time, perhaps space travel will be possible and we can leave and find a similar planet.

I was one of those hysterical children dragging confused household pets under the couch (because that would surely save us!) after hearing that the sun would die out/explode on 3-2-1 Contact.
Once again, you explain everything beautifully. Thanks!
http://urfundamast.blogspot.com/

Good job, Ethan, and there's one more thing you could put in there:

---

Humans have so much time between now and then, that we can spread out to other planets around other stars. We can take examples of all the rest of Earth life with us to start new ecosystems on those planets.

In order to do that, we need to support space exploration. First we need to visit Mars, and then build bases on the Moon and Mars. Then we need to build a new civilization on Mars, so we can work out all the details of living on a new planet. After that, we can start building further away in our star system, maybe on the moons of Jupiter and Saturn.

By that time we'll have new advances in engineering that will enable us to build enormous space ships that we can use to travel to other stars. According to today's science, the trip to another star will take thousands of years. With tomorrow's science we might cut that travel time in half or even more.

Once we spread out to other stars, humanity and Earth life can continue for as long as there are stars to support planets. But it all starts with the space exploration we're doing now, which is why we need to support that and tell our elected officials we want them to support it.

---

Now you see, this gives even small children "something they can do to help." That is to encourage their friends to support the space program, and in a few years when they learn how to write letters, writing to the President and Congress.

This takes whatever fears they may still have, and turns them into the motivation to do something, which is rewarded with the satisfaction of doing it.

It's always useful when bringing up a problem, to bring up something people can do to help solve it. "Problem-oriented thinking" spreads fear and despair; "solution-oriented thinking" spreads motivation and determination and encourages effort.

---

As far as the issue of "what's going to be around on Earth in a few billion years" is concerned: as a principle of ethics, we do not have the right to limit the ability of our distant descendants to choose their course of action. Specifically we do not have the right to squander Earth's resources frivolously, or cause climate impacts or other changes that will decrease the ability of a technological civilization to allocate resources toward space exploration.

We don't know what humans are going to evolve into, or whether other intelligent species will evolve here over that span of time. We don't know, so we can't make decisions that cut off their ability to make their own choices in their time. We owe them an Earth that will support their own lives and give them the resources to make their own decisions.

We live in a specific era in the evolution of the universe. After billions of years enough heavy elements were made by the first generations of stars, and they were able to diffuse to other regions, to enable the formation of star/planetary systems capable of forming life.
But such processes will tail off. The amount of available matter to create stars large enough to go supernova will diminish, and increasingly matter will be sequestered in stars like our own. Nucleosyntheseis and dispersal will come to an end, and the universe will expand indefinitely to a cold end.
We can observe this precisely because of the anthropic principle. We are here now because here and now is the optimal era for life.
The past was too energetic and too devoid of essential elements. The future will be too cold. We are in the Goldilocks era of the universe. But it will not last.
Ever notice how all the highly active galaxies are always several billion light years away? That is because the era of active galaxies ended several billion years ago. The super-massive central black holes ran out of nearby material to gobble up, and settled down to quiescence. Today, the Milky Way galaxy has a very faint jet reflecting the greatly attenuated activity of the central black hole.
All the nearby galaxies look like ours just as all the dinosaurs looked pretty much alike, and very different from the paleozoic life forms that preceded them.
Location, location, location... and timing is everything.

Could you explain a bit more about the process?

Are you saying that, for ex., it is instantaneous, that all would be well on the Earth at 9am and at 9:15am the planet would be gone?

If, otoh, it is a long process, how long are we talking about? Thousands, millions, billions of years? What would be happening on Earth?

Would intelligent life on the Earth be aware of the "tipping point", the point at which the Sun starts to die? Would, iow, they know in advance? How far in advance?

And are you then saying that over some extended period of time, the planet would slowly become so hot that no life could survive so that final blowoff would be essentially irrelevant?

I know these are awfully basic questions but I honestly don't know the answers and all I've ever read is the bare minimum, i.e., the sun will die and with it the planet. I'd like a few more details, please.

"I know these are awfully basic questions"

They're daft questions.

When you make a cake, at one point, you have ingredients. At some later point you have cake.

At what point do the ingredients turn into cake?

Explosive, not explosive; religion, not religion; but no one mentions this howler: "The stars of the past died so that you could be here..." Er, no, actually, they didn't. What next, maybe: "Single cellular creatures evolved so that you could be here..."? Kids dig facts, and truth, so just give it to them.

Perhaps some of the kids wouldn't be getting freaked out about the end of life on earth if they weren't filled full of fairy tales about "everlasting life" since they were in nappies.

Also if Gods bigger than the sun why can't I see him?

"Honest religious answer": Because hes invisible and hides and made it impossible. Clearly not very satisfying answer so instead I'll bet on the:

"Probable religious answer": Because you're looking for him in the wrong place, look for him in your heart and the hearts of others yada yada or some such metaphorical allusion that tries to sound wise but is really just a fancy way of avoiding the question its akin to answering "How does eletricity work?" with "chicken sandwich"

Now now, I think John 117 has a point there. The sun is not big enough to cause a massive explosion that will erase us from the universe, but of course we'll all be gone anyway without the sun

And just to add, religion shouldn't even be discussed here. This is a science blog people, just stick to the facts. No offense meant

The Sun doesn’t explode. It’s an increase in the solar wind. But it leaves behind a pretty planetary nebula for maybe ten thousand years. We probably won’t see it, but our descendants orbiting other stars might. That’s what you tell a 3rd grader. Even much older kids are alarmed. Look at Yahoo!Answers if you need evidence.

Even if the Earth is still in the orbit of the expanded sun, the density of the solar atmosphere when it's expanded out to the orbit of the Earth may be so thin that even if it still is very hot it may not obliterate the Earth.

I'm convinced mankind will destroy our planet, at least in terms of being habitable for us, before nature has a chance.
-----
We are stardust
We are golden
And we've got to get ourselves
Back to the garden

Even if that will happen it cannot destroy the Earth .....
And if that is not gonna happpen ......
Scientists said that there is a black hole that is destroying our ozone layer and if destroys the whole layer the sun might destroy the Earth , plus the snow will melt and cause very high flood and there is no to worry if that's gonna happen just trust our Father,Jesus............ so don't be sad :)

Also guys I'm a grade 4 student and I'm not worried

And Robert here has a point the sun can't destroy the earth , people destroy it because of pollution and smog can also destroy our ozone layer.......... so start being clean and do not cut trees if they are embarassing cause that may start to destroy Mother Nature.........

Also Grace has a point that when the sun is gone we can't live......... reply plsssss.......

And if that is 10 billion yrs im alredy dead of being old because im alredy 10 yrs oldd hihihihi.......... :}

it should , its common sense the mayans must of counted the years we had in this world and it ended to 2012 so my hypothesis is the world will end with the sun exploding and turn to a black hole and no one will know yet if we go into that black hole we might be shifted to another demension . i hope we do because im highly facinated with extra terrestriol i am 15 and have the brain of a scientist it mite not seem but just hear me out i think the mayans must of counted the years of this earth

Jerome, no, you do not have the brain of a scientist.

The mayan calendar no more stops at 2012 than the gregorian calendar stopped at 1999, or the years stop when you get to December. There was a roll over. No more. No less.

And how do you come to think "the mayans must of counted the years of this earth"? Did you talk to them?

i do not mean to be nasty but you are WRONG our sun is not going to explode in a supernova or any other type of detonation our sun will go rd giant and most probably destroy all the inner rock planets however the outer gas giants would survive almost unaffected it may even be possible to move earth to a new habitable zone by use of a giant solar sail or gravitational pulls from celestial bodies.

yeah i've got, one of those "brain of a scientist" too, i found it on the beach, one, day and I keep it in a jar in the shed; because the Mrs won't let me, have it in the house because its true it is starting to stink; a bit,

I think it can be quite traumatizing if a child was told bluntly that the sun will explored and everyone will die. I'm 23, i just found out this myself and I don't think my reaction is any different than a child's, that is I'm truly horrified as I love this earth so much and cannot comprehended human extinction. Maybe i wasn't paying attention to science at school to know this or whatever reason. Its a bit ironic as I happen to teach kindergarten children!
But the point is, after I read Ethan's article the way in which he worded things seemed to flow and almost seem optimistic. I really appreciated that you took the time to word things in a way that a child would be able to understand and not get too overwhelmed by. At the very least it helped me to calm out of a panic attack i was having.
And the fact that the sun will not explode and just become a black dwarf is probably a great thing instead of most likely obliterating the earth as well . And i'm sure by the time/before that happens we will be so far advanced in our technology that we will have new technologies and do-able actions/plans for how we will survive extinction and live on.

I really love this world, always appreciating the natural beauty of earth, even the sun with our beautiful sun sets and hot summer days. I know that i probably will not be around when the sun dies (unless believing in re-carnation), but even so, it makes me unimaginably sad knowing all the green grass, beautiful scenery, and all life forms will be gone one day...

"I think it can be quite traumatizing if a child was told bluntly that the sun will explored and everyone will die."

Well, don't do that, then.

Try doing what Ethan does here instead.

if it makes you feel better... Either the Relig-O' NUTS will take over again and oppress Science, which in turn will make who or what ever is the dominate species on earth oblivious to Logic and will think a God hate them as steam rises from there heads!

OR, we will be off abducting other species to figure out which end to probe!!!!

>:D

I had a dream once that the sun blew up, I'm gonna wright a book about it, my friends say that this was inspiration, but a seriously messed up subconscious which may be true because my subconscious is separated from my conscious and had tried to kill me several times. It takes over when I sleep

if the sun explodes will we die and if stars did not explode why will we won't be here?

Thanks for breaching this topic because I was in fact, one of the children who was deeply troubled by this. And recently I was reminded of that trauma and then I realized...it still bothers me.

Adults would always try and re assure me as a child, and this always made it worse. Most common responses:
1) But that's in billions of years!
2) No one is going to be around anyway!

Okay, 1). Why does the distance of the future make it any more or less real? Let's say the sun was going to burn this planet up in a week. Now how do you justify your day to day actions? Does putting it billions of years away really make a difference, or are we just fooling ourselves?

2) No one is going to be around by then anyway. Well, truth be told I don't worry about myself or my friends burning to death; I worry about the human race ending. I worry about the extinction of all species on Earth. And then some would say, well the human race may be gone by then anyway. Oh great, that makes me feel better too! What's the point of going to the moon and discovering the cure to cancer if the human race, and all it's knowledge, will be gone someday anyway?

Sorry, this is really coming out of a place of apathy. But the more I think about it the harder it is for me to justify my existence, and any of my actions. Are we really going to resettle our civilization somewhere? We can't even find a liveable planet in a probe that can't support life, and travels for years and years.

I would love to hear these "re-positioning" the Earth in a new orbit ideas that are being tossed around. I've never heard them before but that, as far fetched as it is, would give me some hope.

As for your answer, that we are born of stars and can someday replace them, that is awesome but...will my stardust be affected by my actions today? No. Nothing I do in my life affects that destiny. Anyway, I was a dark child, but other kids might buy it.

Every body in here is a but!

To John 117
The author is not misinformed and is quite correct in his explanation. As a teacher, he would know how best to explain phenomena in a careful way to avoid developing misconceptions in later learning. This he has done and it merely reveals a vacuous arrogance to take a 'higher' factual plain and to lecture.
We talk of batteries providing energy to light a torch. If there is more than one cell then yes this a battery - of cells. Do we correct and risk confusion and misconception in later learning? No, we explain and leave room for later and more sophisticated understanding. This The author has done. The term 'get over yourself' comes to mind.

Great post Ethan - I teach kids 12-17. They love 'big question' topics and this is the kind of issue the grab onto. Contrary to what many people think, kids are totally fascinated by questions about being, the meaning of existence and its ending. They get more excited about this stuff than almost anything I can think of (computer game and mobile phones included!). All the best and please keep the posts coming. Tim

Holy hell. Y'know, I never comment on Internet message boards. But sweet mother Jesus, this commenting wasteland is an Aspie paradise. I haven't seen such petty, carping faultfinding outside of figure skating or Texas mom cheerleading.
"WELL ACTUALLY TEXAS MOM CHEERLEADING IS NOW A COMPETITIVE SPORT."
Fuck, man.

wat will u do to be prepared for the sun's death

@michelle,

There's only a few options:

1. Find a way to move the earth and keep it in the "goldilock zone" during the billion of so years that the sun will slowly increase its output and keep it away from the sun as it expands into a red giant.

2. Find a way to colonize satellites of the outer planets.

3. Find a way to move to other star systems.

4. Go extinct.

Options 1 and 2 are only temporary solutions; after becoming a red giant, the sun will eventually run out of material that can undergo fusion and will cease to give off enough energy to sustain life. In another sense, option 3 is temporary as well; not only would a new star experience a similar fate, the ultimate heat death of the universe would most likely ensure that option 4 is inevitable eventually.

The sun is not large enough to supernova. It all depends on what perspective you are looking from. If your on a different planet other than earth looking at our sun though a telescope you will see the sun expand into a red giant but if your here on earth or close by the expansion will very much seem like an explosion considering that the sun will spew its innards in all directions for billions and billions of miles. So really it depends on how you look at it. i just wish I would be alive when it happens

I just stumbled onto this website. I find it very interesting and amusing. I think in maybe as little as 100 years anyone looking back at these posts would really laugh. No one knows when or how the end of our world as we know it will come. I do believe in God. But not in "religion". I have to believe there is some kind of intelligence behind our creation, whether it be the Big Bang theory or something else. It is interesting and fun to discuss this topic but I believe it is fruitless because we cannot change the outcome. We can only change our short life as we live it.

I'm a kid, and i do think the world will end, but not soon. The sun is a great big star, which will explode, or, burn out. But it will take thousands,millions of years.I will be dead then, and so will you.Everyone has different opinions, but no one knows how the end will come , or when/if the sun will explode.I found this very interesting and educational.

Karina, everyone has those dreams, i dreamt that the sun blew up and i was on another planet, i dreamt lots of things about the end of the world, so dont be so stupid, a dream doesnt mean anything.

Tia,

I realize that you are young and may not have learned a lot about stellar evolution, so let me educate you a bit:

We do have a pretty fair idea about what the ultimate fate of the sun will be and a pretty good idea about the rough timetable of events. The sun's output, in about 10^9 years or so, will gradually begin to increase as the sun starts running out of hydrogen. At a point (and I'm not an expert on this so forgive me that my timetable is a bit vague) a couple of billion years after the sun starts to increase its output, the hydrogen will completely run out. At this point, it will undergo a vast expansion that will either swallow the earth or come close. If life has survived on earth to that point, it's very likely that all life on earth will end at that time. This is the red giant stage of solar evolution. It will then go through other stages and wind up as a planetary nebula.

It's true that we don't KNOW this for certain, at least in terms of philosophical certainty, but this is the best model for stellar evolution that we have. If you have one better (or develop one someday), you likely will win a Nobel prize and become very famous, at least within the scientific community. In short, we may not be 100% dead nuts certain, but we do have a pretty good idea about what will happen. It's much different from "nobody really knows what will happen".

"I have to believe there is some kind of intelligence behind our creation"

Genuine question here: why?

If it's because you emotionally "have to", think of it this way:

If there is no guidling intelligence to give meaning to existence, you make your meaning by living your life. Emotionally, I feel this is a whole lot better than there is a meaning that someone else put to it, if only because if someone else decided it, I can get it wrong, whereas if it's me myself making my life worthy, I can't fail to live it. I can only fail to live the life I feel I should.

Well, for a start this is incorrect, it isnt worth reading it, its wrong. In reply to John-117's post, you are right, its incorrect. As for the people talking about religon, you shoudent be here, it causes arguments and cyber wars. Anyway, as someone else said, if you are going to give 7 year olds a bad and frightening education, stop teaching and look it up on google. In reply to g724, we dont have the technology to move Earth's orbit, we'll have to wait for at least 3,000 years and 100 million years at the most. I would also like to add to the person saying the first 2 commentors were trolls. They are NOT trolls, you are the troll around here. The religous person is also a troll because he/she flooded the comments with religous rubbish. And that concludes this very long post. I'd also like to thank the people who took the time to read my post. BTW no offence meant if any of this post offended you.

And to add, The Sun will swell up into a red giant and after that it will puff its outer layers away and form a planetary nebula which will stay for about 10,000 years. The Sun isnt going to explode.

Adding another thing, I do beleve in a Cat God, but i have no relgion behind it, I dont think he made the universe, I just think he is there. P.S. I dont think that anybody should argue about there opinion, because at the end of the day, its an opinion, but yes, I think religion is full of lies even though there is evidence towards it. P.P.S. If god is there, why did the Japanese tsunami and the Chinese earthquake 5 years ago happen? Why didnt god stop them from happening? End of story. BTW im not trying to cause arguments either, im just pointing out my point of view.

I also dont want answers back saying bad has to happen. If god was there, he would make bad extinct, not the Dinosaurs.

Timothy White, its not a great post, its a terribly incorrect post, ok

Also, for the publisher of the post I reccomend this book called: Star, From Birth To Black Hole, it will tell you about how the sun will die. Buy it at Waterstones, thats where I got my copy :).

Sean T, I completly agree with you,we may NOT be 100% certain, but we're 90% sure it will happen :). P.S. all of the religous trolls keep ruining these discussions :'(

Jonas Horde, DONT troll like that again.

AdrianJW, unfourtunatley he is misinformed and he dosent know how to teach kids. If you think he is great at teaching then you are an idiot with half a brain

"I would love to hear these “re-positioning” the Earth in a new orbit ideas that are being tossed around. I’ve never heard them before but that, as far fetched as it is, would give me some hope."
youre right, it is far fetched. as i stated in my first post, we may have to wait millions or even billions of years for this technology. Recently theve been saying that mars and venus are going to go crazy in 1 billion years and crash into us. This means we might be gone if we dont get off earth if/when it happens, so it would matter.

its in 5 seconds! 5...4...3...2...1...0...supernova!!!
just kidding...its 5,000,000,000 years. 5,000,000,000........................................................................................

oh no i don't want to die! so unhappy im a child

the sun will die after a five billion years
we will die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Honestly I dont think the sun blowing up or whatever its going to do is going to be that big a deal to a kid after they realize they wont be here to see it happen. Im pretty sure the death thing is the one you need to explain without scaring the crap out of him/her. But the sun/human connection is great none the less.

I asked my kids if they were upset when they first found out that the Sun was going to explode. "Of course not!" was the answer.
I wonder if the problem is that some children have been shielded from reality with fairy-tales about re-incarnation or the afterlife and are therefore incapable of dealing with mortality. Filling their heads with more fairy-tales about startdust might not be in the children's best interest.

If I were to explain to a child I'd simply say "One day, our sun will die. Much like other stars you can see. However, it won't mean the end for humans, as by then we'll have invented ways to travel to a star. A star that has a lot of it's life left to live. We'll inhabit a new planet and travel through the stars from it." After all, it appeals to the child's imagination and wonder at the idea of space ships.

No kids. A star did not explode so you could be here. God created the sun the stars the sky the moon and all you see around you. He put all of this in place so you could be here. So you could enjoy it so you could see what he sees. So you can see who he is and what he is capable of. "Jesus" his son the only star that matters died so you could always enjoy what God created. Some people need to make sense of things by breaking us all down to nothing. But we didn't not come from nothing we came from everything. We are the reason everything is the way it is and looks. I hope you never forget that. That is the truth. God is your reason for being alive. Someday the world will end. Maybe the sun will explode. But even that is a choice made by God. Even he knows that all things must come to and end. But he is the beginning the present and the end of everything we see. Know and even study.

No kids, god doesn't exist. It was made up to keep you in check when your parents weren't looking. A free baby sitter, if you like.

Tell me, Leslie, do you still believe in Santa Clause? If not, why not? How else do all those kids get their presents on the same night, huh? Tell me that!

People do not try to understand God. Just praise him. He created us all and loves each and every one of us in our own special way. If you don't believe in Him and stand up for your opinion than I respect that. But if you come up with a bunch of garbage and trash talk about him than that's just hating. ps. Its never too late to start believing in Him.

Reply to Wow:
Dude, we all know by now that Santa Claus is fake . And that our parents and family got us our presents. And one more thing, GOD ISNT SANTA CLAUS if that was the case he would have sent his only begotten son to give us presents for our sins. And to pay him back we would have to go and buy some cookies and milk instead of praying to him for dying for our sins. And he didn't die in his sleep you know! He was painfully crucified. I swear some people just don't grow up.

"Dude, we all know by now that Santa Claus is fake"

Sorry, how do you know this? You cannot prove a negative.

"And one more thing, GOD ISNT SANTA CLAUS"

How do you know? Answer: you do not.

In what significant way are they different? They are both stories told to people to explain some things that seem mysterious, and ensure good behaviour by withholding their gifts if you are seen to be naughty, and they ARE ALWAYS WATCHING YOU to make sure you're not.

They have a huge amount in common.

Including their fictitious nature.

"if that was the case he would have sent his only begotten son to give us presents for our sins."

If that weren't the case, they wouldn't withhold their gifts from those who wouldn't be nice.

And you're really presuming here that one DID send their "only begotten son". If neither exist, including the "begotten son" bit, then this is yet another non-difference: neither did that.

"And he didn’t die in his sleep you know!"

Since he never lived, he cannot have died in his sleep.

"He was painfully crucified."

You can't crucify someone who is a figment of imagination. Gandalf didn't die at Moria either.

But according to The Good Book, Gandalf did die in Moria, to be reborn to save Middle Earth.

You see, this is the thing about stories.

They get repeated.

(PS look up the birth of Mithras, the Roman God of War. It was set centuries earlier than 0 BC. Like I said: stories get repeated. But repetition doesn't make them true. Or do you follow Mithras?)

"ScienceGuy", Santa loves us. If he didn't he wouldn't work miracles to get us our presents.

QED.

Years from now, people will read this argument over whether the sun will end with an explosion or a deflagration.

I'd like to be the smart alek who points out that a deflagration is an explosion. There are two types of explosions - a deflagration is a type of explosion that occurs subsonically and operates through transfer of heat, and a detonation transfers through shock energy. The sun is currently literally exploding all the time.

The problem isn't the author's use of the word of explosion, the problem is that a bunch of people seem to think that "explosion" is synonymous with "detonation." A supernova is the result of a deflagration type explosion transitioning into a detonation type explosion.

Here's a quote:

"Explosions are most often driven by flames propagating at relatively slow subsonic velocities," explains Poludnenko. "Under certain conditions, however, this 'slow' mode of burning can transition to a completely different regime -- detonation, a.k.a. the 'deflagration-to-detonation transition.' In this case, burning is driven by very fast, strong shock waves that can travel at more than 5 times the speed of sound. The power and destructive potential of such detonation- driven explosions is vastly greater than flame-driven ones. Understanding the conditions and physical mechanisms that can cause the transition between these two explosive modes is critical for developing proper preventive and protective measures in industrial settings."
- http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/11/111122113216.htm

In fact, the sun is LITERALLY exploding right now. And before anyone chimes in with "don't be technical", the whole argument was about how using the word "explosion" wasn't technically accurate.

It is technically and literally accurate to call the massive deflagration

I have never read such big Bull Crap before!!!
If this is what you teach children please stop teaching ad get your fact straigt.
Like many said before not enough mass to explode!
Stages are red Giant, blow off a lot off stellar matter and white darf ( some say a gigantic diamond).
Please read more then 1 article to be sure ya know what ya talkin about ...

I do not think all this rumour about the sun exploding and us having been made up by the reaction that takes place amoung the stars periodically is anything near the actual truth.
Fact being, there is no reaction, order of change whatsoever not to mention life that can happen without the driver of everything. You guys are missing a big part here that will draw us back to the Bible, about the owner who created everything up to a human being. Come to think of it, all these complications about the human body could never have happened by any reaction without being controlled by a Being who knew what He was doing.
If this whole story was invented only for education then i want to say the whole lecture was wrongly drafted. God is there, who made His own people and is obviously the owner of what else we see by our scientific equipment. People better start believing that this world is going to come to an end and all these chemical reactions of stars and the sun will never be experienced by any human being if they ever would happen if The Creator hadn't shortened the times of the Earth.
So my conclussion is: The world is no more than 7 000 yrs old and it will soon come to an end because God lives.

Traumatized that the solar system will be destroyed? No, but traumatized that Everything will vanish? Yes.

"You guys are missing a big part here that will draw us back to the Bible, about the owner who created everything up to a human being. "

So how did that creator get created?

Or do things that move and act and thing and want and need not have to be "alive" to do so? In which case, who says we are "alive" in a way that needs a creator?

"God is there, who made His own people"

And His People are the semitics. Indeed in the End Of Times, a score of thousands of the 12 original tribes of Israel will be the ONLY ONES SAVED.

That's right: NO NON JEW will survive and get to heaven, and even then, onlu 144,000 of them.

The pogrom against the remaining several million jews who will die in the conflagration will be a final solution of a vastly greater scale than Hitler and Goebbels managed.

i know that the sun will not blow up there are only small blow ups and that will contine you with small blow ups also the blow ups go back to the sun soo nothing will hapin too the sun or us how do i know ill this i study the soler system with my freind.

if the sun dies we will die!!!!

my sun michael is right the sun will not eplode

Mischa,

Michael's statement is certainly correct (at least with our current level of technology; it could be rendered false if we develop the ability to travel to and colonize planets orbiting other stars). We will die if sun dies. Your statement is logically and scientifically unjustified. Pointing out that the human race is doomed if the sun explodes does not imply that the sun will not explode.

First the narrator said our sun will become a red giant then a white dwarf. How would this scare children were talking 4 billion years from now. Many other earth destroying stuff will happen way before that, super volcanos,nuclear weapons, solar flare at the worse possible time like when poles shift, comet/asteroid impact, global warming, diseases, etc.
I seriously doubt any humans will be around when the event takes place. that would take place long time from now. Longer then it took our entire solar system to evolve .

Sorry but these God people ticked me off!!!
God really. Good Orderly Direction is what it means.
Also which god so many cultures have 100s I of their idea of god. Akantn and Nefertiti they changed worshiping many gods to the sun god. God was made up by man to scare and spy and control the masses through fear.
Furthermore more humans died in the name of god through wars. Than any other reason. Non a god I'd want to put faith in!!
Science is king. Not god the hands off invisibile being.
Also the person whom said him referring to god proves is all ego. And if I'm wrong he'd have to be long dead and never knew we existed. He'd have to be 14.7 billion years old.
Don't think so. People! Just read the old and new testiment.
What happened to all those miracles. When science didn't exists. Where are the miricals today. Not including science that man created. The bible is a history book full of grapevine hearsay and exaggeration.

Debate me on this text 267-254-6888 I really would like some thoughts. .

What you should tell kids is that in a couple of billion years from now the sun wont burn any more. When it stops burning there will be no light and no heat on earth so no one or nothing can live on it. But before that happens we teach you guys science and shit so you can go out and research and invent new technologies so in time it won t matter because we will live on another planet with a brand new sun.

Well we better get started on the Ark del SOL pretty soon. It's going to take a lot of asteroid mining to get it finished on time at the rate we are going.

The sun will never ever die

Will anything happen to the sun in a span of around 50-100,
or 100-125 years.
Please E-Mail me.

Will anything happen to the sun in a span of around 50-100,
or 100-125 years.
Please E-Mail me.

@sci-team #135: Lots of things will happen to the Sun on those time scales! There will be more sunspots, then there will be fewer sunspots, then there will be more again, and so on. There will be little solar flares, and big solar flares, and coronal mass ejections. There will be comets which pass very close to the Sun, and comets which break up and fall into the Sun.

Do people really think the Earth is going to still be around by the time the sun bellies up? I would be shocked if Humans lasted another 2,000 years without destroying themselves or reducing the planet to a toxic wasteland. We already have nukes laying around that are capable of leveling continents.

Me myself I am a child I am 12years old and I think 4 a child my age that was really fascinating. The sun exploding didn't cum close 2 me thinking thank you for sharing

shut up all of you all of you is not archaeologist and we don,t experience that supernova exlode so shut up and listen

We need to make sure our kids can swim instead of teaching them about the lifespan of the sun. Temperatures will increase during our suns semi-splosion melting all the ice caps, increasing sea level. Im opening a giant orphange in the himalayas. I win .

I'm not too sure if my hypothesis is correct. But, I think of it like this. Once you go out into Space far enough you're into the Time Lapse.

What's a Star?
A Star is a ball of Gasses that rapidly keep exploding from Millionw, Billions pr even Trillions of uears ago. So, there must be a Time Lapse that keeps the Gasses in Rewind and Play.

What's the Sun?
The sun is a Star. So, basically the Sun is also in a Time Lapse. Therefore, beings were close enough to be impacted by the Sun.

We too are in the Time Lapse, we already lived and died Millions, Billions if not even Trillions of years ago. You're living in the past.

We don't understand time and probably never will.

No, I'm not stupid if this sounds insane to you or completely incorrect. I stated that it's my own personal hypothesis.

Furthermore, I do understand how Space, Stars, the Sun and all that neat stuff works.

Edwin, your hypothesis cannot exist. Let me explain why:
1. Stars do not keep exploding, they keep FUSING atoms (mainly hydrogen and helium) together.
2. "From millions of years ago?" Stars are not from millions of years ago.
3. What are you talking about? Stars burn for millions, billions or trillions of years then die. They shed there outer layer that can eventually form new stars.
4. Already explained.
5. This is so stupid I cannot even be bothered to explain this shit.
6. We DO understand time. Where do you think the clock comes from?

You obviously don't understand this stuff, or you would not be posting this retarded hypothesis.
My conclusion:
You need to work A LOT on this hypothesis before it is even considered to possibly be correct. You are a very big retard.

Leslie: Fuck off. God does not exist you retard, stop trying to tell kids he does you fucking dogshit.

Sorry for the language, but people, sorry, trolls like this just piss my fucking dick off.

I am an idiot. I admit it. I'm just that stupid.

People, stop impersonating me like a fucking dogshitting bumface.

Well now, more bad news; the increase in solar luminosity apparently will, in about another billion years, make Earth's water evaporate and escape into space, rendering it inhospitable to all known terrestrial life.
Earth probably will not survive the Sun's change into a red giant. At its largest, the Sun will have a maximum radius beyond Earth's current orbit, 250 times the present radius of the Sun.
the orbits of the planets will have drifted outwards due to a loss of roughly 30% of the Sun's present mass. Most of this mass will be lost as the solar wind increases.
Also, tidal acceleration will help boost Earth to a higher orbit (similar to what Earth does to the Moon). If it were only for this, Earth would probably remain outside the Sun. However, current research suggests that after the Sun becomes a red giant, Earth will be pulled in owing to tidal deceleration.

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2008MNRAS.386..155S
Klaus-Peter Schroder, Robert C. Smith

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1995A&A...299..755B
Bloecker, T.

It is possable because the sun will get smaller and it will get closer to the earth with the gravitatinal pull it will come closer.

The world will end soon but it will be the greatest of all knowing that we all love God and he loves us

I am 30. I believe in God. We are made with stars, but we are not made by stars. God promised to make a new world. Because the entire universe is lost to satan. Gallaxies will clash, stars will burn out, the earth will be scorched, people will die. Everything is set to be destroyed. This is no longer the universe he first created. Everything in the universe, including our souls, belongs to satan according to the law of heaven (We have sinned). God was helpless. He had to break the law by dying sinlessly in this universe. Therefore, satan can no longer gain his claim on our soul, since both the sinned and the sinless perished together in this universe. God can rightfully take us away from satan.

Our physical bodies still continue to die from disasters in this universe, God can't do anything about it. Because our physical bodies are made from elements in this universe.

This is what God inspired me to tell you guys after I asked him.

Lots of the things I typed above I didn't know until just now.

Hope it helps.

Came here looking for information on the death of our sun. Found that in both the article and some of the comments.
I was not at all surprised to find a few psuedo intellectual atheists denigrating religious belief systems.
If all of Galileo's therories had been accepted as fact without any opposing view point then you'd all still believe that the tides were caused by inertia induced by rotation of the earth. Galileo was so obstinate on this point that he accused Kepler of traficking in the occult when it was suggested that the moon (and sun as well) exerted an unseen influence on the oceans.
The great mathematician Ptolemy "proved" to everyones satisfaction that the sun and planets circled the Earth, and his calculations predicted the position of the planets with a high degree of accuracy.
There was no repeatable scientific experiment to prove the Earth as a sphere and rotated on an axis till the mid 19th century.

So get over it. Science may be infallible in some la la land where humans can't muck up the observations or try to shoehorn the data to fit a preconceived notion, but that land doesn't exist on this planet.
If you look to "teh scyince" to tell you all you will ever need to know about life the universe and everything you might as well look to fishmongery or basket weaving to tell you all you need to know.

Greg, nobody is claiming that science is perfect, and certainly not all the time.
It is worth pointing out that purely religious "thinking" ends with "some god did it" and it brings nothing worthwhile to the table.

Greg,

I'm really not sure who it is that your are criticizing as "pseudo-intellectual atheists", but your examples are really not particularly good for arguing against scientific knowledge. In each of the examples you cite, how was it determined that the accepted science was wrong? Was it a religious revelation? No. It was further scientific study that did the job. Your first example, Galileo's explanation of tides, was shown wrong by Newton's law of gravitation. Ptolomey's geocentric system was shown wrong by Kepler's laws of planetary motion, Newtonian Gravity and Galileo's observations of Jovian moons. The third example you cite is not really an example of science getting anything wrong, just an example where observational verification of theory had to wait for the appropriate experimental technology. It's not even true that experimental verification of the sphericity of the earth did not occur until the mid 18th century. It was known since ancient times that the earth was a sphere, and the Greeks even measured its circumference to a pretty decent accuracy.

The point is that bad science is corrected by doing more science. This is a feature, not a bug. Science is self-correcting. That does not mean we should not accept the current scientific theories. Instead we should accept them, but question them appropriately when evidence arises that conflicts with them.

"It was known since ancient times that the earth was a sphere, and the Greeks even measured its circumference to a pretty decent accuracy."
It was not "known" it was assumed , just like Ptolemy's assumption that the Earth was the center of the universe and proven by calculations rather that direct observation.
The same observations and calculations could have been done on a hemisphere and led to the same conclusions which in that possibility would have been totally wrong.
A few did believe the world was a hemispherical turtle shell carried by some sort of space elephants or some such non sense , others thought it was a shield, and they could have claimed these calculations supported their beliefs just as easily.
No direct observation of the shape of our world was possible until the space age. Shadows on the moon are a good clue but not conclusive.
People believed the earth was a sphere because that made a lot more sense than a hemisphere.

If IIRC the experiments I mentioned were in 1858 or there about. These involved observing the swing of pendulums at different lattitudes.
The man who performed the experiments was all but unknown. I happened on an account of his work purely by accident.
His work mainly confirmed what everyone already believed.

As it is theres no scientific evidence to either prove or disprove the existence of a supreme being.
In recent years discovery of "Dark Matter" has opened new doors, or cans of worms depending on one's point of view.
Here we have matter that doesn't meet the classic definition of material. Scientist now believe in something they can not directly observe. They can only observe the effect of its presence on conventional matter.

Religion has suggested some things once thought impossible yet now accept as fact.
We no longer believe in a "steady state Universe" its recognized that the Universe had a beginning and will come to an end.
We have good reason to believe that our timestream began when the universe began (there was no Before).
We accept that time doesn't flow at the same rate for those traveling at high speeds as it would if they were stationary.
Dust thou art and to dust thou shall return. Remove the H2O from a human body and all thats left is dust.

Its true enough that some have wacked out beliefs about God, but regardless of whether most of those beliefs are wrong it does not effect the existence of God.
Some may have believed the Moon was made of green cheese (though I rather doubt anyone actually thought that). When missions to the moon revealed its mineral make up the moon was still there the next night.
You could believe a ring was solid gold, yet if it was proven to be gilded brass that ring would still exist.

A great many people accept scientific facts yet still hold faith based beliefs, one does not cancel out the other. Truth can not contradict truth.

My gripe is with atheists who try to misuse science to prop up their arguments, and stoop to peddling long disproven NAZI propaganda to denigrate Christianity.
Haven't noticed the latter here quite yet but the old claim of Hitler being a Christian almost always comes up sooner or later and its a prime example. Heathens are in fact atheists (a religion with no gods, the only worship being of the home land) and Hitler was a Heathen.
They make claims that sound good on the surface but don't hold up to a minimum of research.
They claim Hitler always paid his "Church Tax". Look it up some time. The Church Tax was levied by the government to repay the Catholic Church for use of church property commandeered by the government. Besides which Hitler was a tax dodger from way back, They had to grant him amnesty for 400,000 marks in unpaid taxes before he could be sworn in as Chancellor.
The OSS investigation at the end of WW2 went into great detail on Hitlers persecution of the Christian churches.
No one with any sense at all continued to believe Hitler was a Catholic or Christian of any denomination by 1940.

Some atheists work at spreading lies about religion, others have been taken in by these lies.
I have no gripe against agnostics, thats an honest POV. Any time I've spoken at length with someone who identifies as Atheist they almost always decide they should instead identify as an Agnostic. One POV is reasonable, the other is not.

As for the question of what happens when the sun goes out or blows up or whatever, its highly unlikely that the human race will still exist. There have been a number of extinction level events in the past and even if no asteriods blind side us I doubt our genetic code will last even a hundred million years before it gets too scrambled for any even remotely human creatures to still be walking around.
Genetic modification of crops and domestic animals sounds a bit familar when you consider that the appearance of Chimera is mentioned in some accounts of fallen civilizations.
Just because you can do something is no reason to just go ahead and do it without considering the possible consequences.
I'm old enough to remember our spreading the great news of cheap safe reliable nuclear power and helping third world nations build nuclear power plants. Now everyone wants to get rid of those plants and/or more recent plants built with the technoligy we shared so freely intending to save the planet.

PS
Don't bother commenting on my writing skills, if I could type I'd be writing paper back novels that pander to the masses.

PS
to above posts
The Experiment I mentioned involved observing the Pendulum at different Longitudes rather than different Lattitudes.
Previous attempts by use of a theodolite on a long stretch of river were done in 1838. These and similar attempts failed due to the optical illusions caused by inversion layers. The results of some attempts even suggested the Earth was concave like a bowl.

Also I failed to answer the following question
"
Sean T

October 29, 2014

Greg,

I’m really not sure who it is that your are criticizing as “pseudo-intellectual atheists”,
"

[quote]

MeMe2

NoGodLand
August 12, 2014

Leslie: Fuck off. God does not exist you retard, stop trying to tell kids he does you fucking dogshit.

Sorry for the language, but people, sorry, trolls like this just piss my fucking dick off.
[/quote]
And Jffry
[quote]
Sorry but these God people ticked me off!!!
God really. Good Orderly Direction is what it means.
Also which god so many cultures have 100s I of their idea of god. Akantn and Nefertiti they changed worshiping many gods to the sun god. God was made up by man to scare and spy and control the masses through fear.
Furthermore more humans died in the name of god through wars. Than any other reason. Non a god I’d want to put faith in!!
Science is king. Not god the hands off invisibile being.[/quote]
Atheists political ideologies murdered more people during the 20th century than died in all religious conflicts throughout the entire history of man on this planet.
A serious study on the actual causes of warfare in the ancient world has shown that very few wars were actually caused by religious differences.

My examples were intended to show that accepted theories are not always correct. Blind faith in a theory is counter to the scientific method.

Studies have shown that the human brain his hardwired for religious beliefs. The human mind has an innate ability to form images.
If a person has a brain that is not wired for belief you could no more convince him of the existence of God than you could convince a skeptical man blind from birth that the moon exists.
He could not see it of course, can not touch it or feel its light on his skin.
Blind people believe the moon exists because they accept on faith that what others have told them must be true.

Well feeling bit less foggy now.
Getting over an abcessed tooth and the infection was pretty deep. Not sleeping much for a week or so.

Still haven't found the account of the experiment I wrote of.I realized that it had to have been done at different lattitudes rather than longitudes in order to determine the shape of the Earth by apparent speed of rotation as the lattitude lines got shorter further to the North or South of the Equater.
The observations would have to be done on the same line of longitude or very near.

Foucault did his first major experiment to determine rotation around 1851.
Whoever did the 1858 experiment apparently didn't get much press.

Anyway this experiment points out that human beings did not always require scientific proof in order to come to a correct conclusion. Inuition played a larger role back then.
It also reveals that what some would consider a scientific discovery was not arrived at by the scientific method.
Much was simply extrapolation.

The science frauds of the last century or so don't get a prominent place in the history books, their crimes show up in journals for a few months and thats it. Top of that list would probably be cold fusion.
Make it sound all sciency and some one will grant funding.

Well enough of this.
Don't take any wooden Nobel medals.

PS
Don’t bother commenting on my writing skills, if I could type I’d be writing paper back novels that pander to the masses.

Since you're having to communicate with use via writing, if you're NOT EVEN GOING TO BOTHER putting effort into it, WHY THE HELL SHOULD WE READ IT????

And there's NO DEADLINE, you're NOT trying to get people to pay $20 a copy, so it's NOTHING like writing a novel for commercial publication.

So, given your dislike of doing any work in details, I have enough information to prove you have nothing valid to propose, since any proposal NEEDS DETAILS TO BE WORKED OUT. You have proven not just that you can't do it, BUT DON'T WANT TO.

We are made with stars, but we are not made by stars.

No, I was made by my Mum. God never turned up ONCE. Ergo, doesn't exist, had nothing to do with making me.

How about you? Was your mum somewhere else, or were you created ex nihilo by God?

Just because you exist doesn't prove God does. Especially not your specific and rather obtuse version.

"So, given your dislike of doing any work in details, I have enough information to prove you have nothing valid to propose, since any proposal NEEDS DETAILS TO BE WORKED OUT. You have proven not just that you can’t do it, BUT DON’T WANT TO."
Stop shouting, cranking up the volume won't make you sound any less ignorant.

"No, I was made by my Mum. God never turned up ONCE. Ergo, doesn’t exist, had nothing to do with making me."
Shouting again.
And just how would you know.
Unless your mom was named Rosemary she didn't perform this feat without some contribution from someone.

Some have considerable skill at writing and others don't.
Its better to write poorly and have something to say than to wrte well and still be stuffed with wild blueberry muffins.
So whats your excuse Hemingway.
My writing skills might improve if I had a few bone grafts and a new radial nerve but medical science won't help you to make better sense.

"
Radu

April 28, 2012

Why do we need a consolation in religion? And why do we need a consolation at all?"

Your post offers very good reasons that you yourself don't seem to recognize.

"I actually found some good insights in a few comments here, namely that life is important because it is important for me. I am the only valid and perfect judge of my life. "

Most serial killers seem to think the same way.

"Coming back to the main point of life’s futility…maybe that’s why we don’t find a Universe thriving with all sorts of advanced civilizations: they all found out it’s all pointless and just ceased to fight to go on, ceased to live against all odds. "

I would hope that not every intelligent race could have come to such a pathetic state. Perhaps finding something greater than themselves to believe in might have given them some comfort and sense of purpose.

There seem to be some very troubled people commenting on this site. Some also appear to be very self absorbed.

God doesn't jump through hoops for us so some believe he couldn't exist.
Some believe that because bad things happen to good people that serves as proof he doesn't exist.

The Sun is not the center of the Universe and neither are we either as individuals or as a race. Things don't have to happen like we want them to in order for the Universe to go on about its business till it comes to an end.
If one lives a year or a hundred years they have still lived their lifetime. Same goes for a civilization or a race of men.

People spreading their feelings of futility to other impressionable minds is probably why Holland considered granting Euthanasia for cronically depressed teenagers.

And Wow wrote
"(PS look up the birth of Mithras, the Roman God of War. It was set centuries earlier than 0 BC. Like I said: stories get repeated. But repetition doesn’t make them true. Or do you follow Mithras?)"
Why don't you actually read up on Mithra worship instead of buying whole hog what ever drivel you've read about it on Atheist rant pages.
Unfortunately for your arguments I've actually read up on a lot of this stuff.

I(Agree) do think that the sun is not gone shine forever like when the dinosaurs ruled the earth they didn't ruled the earth forever like that our humanity we are all things cant be the same forever it got to have difference if that's our destiny that's it we can God chose that or we can create like a big sheild to protect our earth.

Why don’t you actually read up on Mithra worship instead of buying whole hog what ever drivel you’ve read about it on Atheist rant pages.

And here we see the vitriolic hate that xtian fundies cuddle close to their breast when their faith is shown up to be as much a myth as those other religions now accepted as myth.

Why don't you stop reading fundie sites that tell you what you really REALLY want to be true and start thinking yourself?

“No, I was made by my Mum. God never turned up ONCE. Ergo, doesn’t exist, had nothing to do with making me.”
Shouting again.
And just how would you know.

No, typing, you frothing maniac. And I know because my birth certificate was there, I've seen other mothers produce children and I have nobody else claiming responsibility.

Meanwhile you know god exists by...um...you were told. But there are other gods who say THEY exist.

So mum making me: 3 evidence points
God existing: one plus, one minus, net zero.

Rationality: not your strong point.

While it's true that the sun will start to become a red giant, there is hope right here in our own solar system. Titan is currently too cold to be habitable, but scientists speculate that once the sun starts to become a red giant that Titan will be warm enough to sustain us for 10,000 to a million years.

"And here we see the vitriolic hate that xtian fundies cuddle close to their breast when their faith is shown up to be as much a myth as those other religions now accepted as myth."

Nothing you have stated supports your conclusion.

''Why don’t you stop reading fundie sites that tell you what you really REALLY want to be true and start thinking yourself?"

If I were not thinking for myself I might buy into the drivel you've been spewing.
Thats a very serious problem that many like yourself have. You buy into anything that would support what you wish with all your might could be true, but don't really seem to understand either the questions or the possible answers to those questions.

It would be better that one such as yourself remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your yap and prove to the world that you are.
Be secure in your ignorance, its your last refuge.

Nothing you have stated supports your conclusion.

Indeed, Gregorvich, the point being that the outpouring of hate was written by fundies like yourself, people no different from ISIS, merely of a different skin colour and religion, not myself.

DO keep up, dearie.

If I were not thinking for myself I might buy into the drivel you’ve been spewing.

Does not follow, dearie. If you were thinking for yourself you may buy into my statement, however, you're shit scared of what you've been told since words meant anything to you: if you don't believe hard enough, God will punish you excessively for eternity. But he loves you.

You buy into anything that would support what you wish with all your might could be true, but don’t really seem to understand either the questions or the possible answers to those questions.

Goodness. For someone who asserts they think for themselves, how the hell did you think quoting me would support your case, dearie?

But with fundies, it's all projection.

Tell me, where is the Atheist version of The Good Book (tm)? Given atheism is merely the lack of belief, and that there's no catchetism for that, how the hell do you concoct one in your own head and pretend it exists?

"But with fundies"
Labeling?
I think you would have loved living in the old soviet union.

As for an atheist bible, it would be a bundle of blank pages, as empty as your arguments.
Evangelical atheism on the other hand is alive and well, fortunately is has no staying power and anything written by its adherents ends up lining the bottom of a bird cage where it belongs.

I learned that our sun life ends through study and docomentaries from science its not what most want to hear but we cant deny facts.. i stil

"Labeling?
I think you would have loved living in the old soviet union."

Many christians did too. Indeed the churches were closed, but priests were still there, as long as they didn't hold sermons. And when WWII was going badly, he opened the churches.

Seems like he was fine with christians there. And christians were fine being there too.

So quite why "You would have liked it in the Soviet Union" is something you wished to bring up is entirely opaque.

Just as the rest of your reasoning.

But rather than plod all over this blog, how about giving me a fundie blog you frequent and we can argue about christianity ON A BLOG ABOUT CHRISTIANITY.

Or is that not good for you because you want to pretend you're being "persecuted" by scientists, and that won't work unless you're on a science blog?

The wise philosopher Louis CK puts it best in this.

Which is what another wise man Marcus Aurelius also similarly: "How ridiculous and what a stranger he is who is surprised at anything which happens in life."

the sun will expand and possibly consume the earth, we'll be dead long before, if we stick around, as the radiation will be incredibly destructive to life. the length of time we have is short to escape this nightmarish hell, roughly 4.5 billion years. Given such a miniscule time frame, I'd say our chances are laughable at best. Clearly we are not a form of life fit for escaping outside a time range below 4.6 billion years. And of course the radiation will be poisonous at roughly 3.9 billion. Our technological achievements in the last 5000 years are obviously a mere drop in the bucket compared to what's required to move a human sized ecology, or singular person, the 40-150,000 light years it requires to reach another star. It seems with such little time left, we cannot survive. Not without some form of adaptation to current ecological conditions allowing us to sustain our existence here on this planet. Weather tolerance may be the key, as the radiation will increase, possibly we will grow somewhat thicker skin in 2-3 billion years, and furthermore we may see a shift in the attitude we take towards our own and other species. If of course we do survive the next 5000 years, it may become clear that leaving is not necessary, however if we do not, we will be forced to leave as the sun slowly radiates our remains into the outer reaches of the solar system, 2-3 billion years from now.

Is there anything that can replace the sun????

First, as a father who believes that God and science are not mutually exclusive, I'd like to say that Ethan's post is an excellent way to explain to a young child the way the Sun will come to an end. Let's stop arguing about the word "explosion".

Second, I'd like to say to all of the angry God haters "get over yourselves!". God and religion are not one and the same. Believing that there is an energetic omnipotent being who created our Universe so that we may exist and evolve to It's level so that It might not be alone is not the same as believing in the dogma of the various religions of the world. I agree that most (I can't say all, because I'm not educated or aware of ALL religions) religions are manipulated by so called mystics using the various dogmas to exert some level of control over people's lives. However, how is this any different than the atheist social engineers using the dogma of the falsified data of anthropogenic global warming as justification to manipulate peoples daily lives? Dogma is dogma, it doesn't matter what the source is.
I think what the Intelligent Design movement has to say is interesting, until they begin to use it to validate their specific RELIGIOUS beliefs. If we explored this line of thought with an open mind rather than preconceived notions it might provide real answers.
I can't say for certain that there is A God, or several Gods, or no God(s), but I can say that I've experienced things that science can not explain or says are impossible. Like dreaming of a loved one coming to say goodbye, only to awake later to find tat they had passed. Also, I had the experience of having a very vivid dream, while at a sleepover as a teenager, and my cousin having the exact same dream down to the last detail.
Another way that atheists frequently dismiss stories of multiple gods that are common among cultures who had no contact with each other across the globe is that people everywhere experienced similar natural phenomena that they used gods to explain. I ask those of you with open minds "what about the similar gods that didn't have anything to do with natural phenomena?" There is something there that requires explanation. The scientific community can't just dismiss every ancient legend as a fairy tale because it contains the word God(s). Think of the stories we tell today, many of the facts are accurate, many are distorted, and sometimes names are changed (and I'm not even talking about fiction here), but there is some truth in it. Lets seek that truth!
I've heard a scientist from the JPL say that he can prove that we are living in a computer simulation similar to the Sims, others say that there are infinite Universes where any possible reality could exist, and then there's the big bang theory, etc, etc. All of these things seem to further prove to me at least the possibility that there is A God or Gods.
The computer simulation would necessitate a programmer, IE a supreme being.
Infinite universes where any reality is possible would include the possibility of a supreme being and or a very powerful race of beings influencing nature.
The Big Bang theory begs the question of why? What caused it?
Quantum theory says that a particle can be in two places at the same time. You would have been ostracized by the scientific community in the past for claiming this.
For those of you who think a belief in a higher power only serves to scare people it obedience, I offer as evidence of the opposite the unshakable optimism of the majority of the "religious" commenters on this post, if you truly believe that we are spiritual beings, there is no fear of anything, let alone the dying of one star in a vast universe.
True belief in God is based in Love, and as we know, fear is the true enemy of Love.
Good day, and I hope with all of my heart that the truly brilliant minds open up and at least explore these possibilities.

Second, I’d like to say to all of the angry God haters “get over yourselves!”.

Since there isn't a god, I can't hate it. Any more than I hate the Jabberwokky.

What you MAY be seeing as hate is the push back against the godbotherers coming here and plopping their antiscience screed on a science site. It's as much hate as I'd get if I went to your church and started shouting about how god was a hoax. Which is why I don't do that.

Please return the frigging favour, you ignorant blowhards.

And that's not hate, it's damn well ANGER. Same as if I went up to your child and started shouting at them about how they need to show their elders more respect. You'd be damn well angry at me, but you wouldn't call it HATE, would you? No.

So why do you call it hate? Because you can then ignore the reality and reasons for it (because they reflect badly on you godbotherers). And you make it hate "against god" because that means you can pretend you're defending god, rather than your pushing of your dogmatic screed everywhere where it has no bloody place.

Tell you what, I say "GET OVER YOURSELF, GOD!". If your god is such a pussy weakling that he has to rely on idiots being aggressive and totally twattish, then he's going to have a hell of a problem when I get up there and kick the shit out of the little teabagger.

And if YOU try to defend god here, you're merely proving how weak your god is.

I think what the Intelligent Design movement has to say is interesting, until they begin to use it to validate their specific RELIGIOUS beliefs.

Intelligent design was invented solely as a repackaging of creationism, in an attempt to get religion into classrooms. There is no way to take it away from its religious setting. It is a scam, all the way down, with no science done by its practitioners and no scientific or educational value.

I offer as evidence of the opposite the unshakable optimism of the majority of the “religious” commenters on this post

And I offer the terror of going to hell as the opposite.

Add in the actual factually supported universal that those with religious faith are most likely to want to put off death and most afraid of it, and it's a slam-dunk that the religious are much more terrified.

Of course, many suicide bombers have said that they feel a calm euphoria when they've finally decided to die (just as the kamikaze did). This ensures that both the bomber commits the atrocity and that on hearing this, the other faithful take it as proof that their god does exist and helps those who martyr themselves for him.

I also point out your rant against people who don't like the uninvited bollocks of someone's personal delusions as more evidence that you have fear to fear.

It is also used to justify christian acts, such as the killing of gays (or they will go to hell if left to commit the abominable acts, so you're doing a GOOD thing) or the torturing of witches (Salem and the Inquisition: if they recant, they are saved an eternity of torture, which cannot be less than what you do in finite time! You're doing a GOOD thing for them!).

And Pascal's wager.

Religion tells you bugger all about reality, but it DOES tell you a hell of a lot about the person. They pick the bits that satisfy their internal desires and wants. And think it right because "God!".

But behind it all is the terror of eternal punishment. For those failing to do god's work (e.g. conversion of the heathen). For those who leave. For those who find they do not HAVE faith, therefore risk eternal damnation because unlike (apparently) the solid belief of others around them, they don't find the arguments and reasoning have any meaning. So each shout louder and louder to convince themselves they "still believe". Hoping like hell that god won't notice in all the yelling.

I belive that the sun will blow up ...................But who knows

"But who knows?" Astrophysicists and those who investigated the evidence.

Ignorant blowhards, pussy weakling, idiots, twattish, little teabagger, delusional, oh my! Such an angry fundamentalist. But you don't believe in God, so where could this deep anger come from? Militant atheism perhaps? Thank you for helping to prove my point that dogma and fundamentalism exists in many areas, not just religion. By the way, in your entire post number 175 you could replace religious or Christian with fundamentalist/militant atheism and change some targeted groups and the body count is VASTLY higher. Fanaticism doesn't require a religion, it merely occasionally uses it for it's justification. I don't know where you get your facts from about the religious being more fearful upon death, but you contradict yourself with your statement about suicide bombers dealing euphoria. Furthermore, it's been my observation that a large portion of atheists, upon acceptance that they will soon die whether from disease, injury, or simply old age, develop a belief in the afterlife and God, so I'm sure this may skew any measurement. Also, what ability do we have to measure WHAT an individual is afraid of upon their death? Pascals wager? I prefer the atheists wager, and feel that living the life is more important than professing a belief, but, then so did Pascal himself. And what great rhetorical prowess " insult, insult, insult, blah blah blah; and if you try and defend it, you only prove me right! Na na na boo boo!" Why not just say I am rubber you are glue? Please, I'm not trying to save or convert anyone to my religion(can't even say I have one) . I'm merely a thinker suggesting that the brilliant minds of our day not dismiss everything that might involve a higher power or anything spiritual merely on the grounds that it is "supernatural". I personally believe that there is no such thing as "supernatural". If something exists it is part of nature, and therefore it or it's effects are measurable. The fact that we can not measure something yet does not preclude the possibility of measuring it. Imagine where we'd be if the early pioneers of atomic theory had given up because of an inability to measure the atom, but the didn't, they believed, and pursued the truth wholeheartedly, even when the mainstream of science called them fools. P = [fNH]/[H(fN+1)]x100% there is the mathematical proof that there is a creator.
Anyway, I apologise for hijacking this thread, as the blog has nothing to do with the existence or non existence of God. I actually stumbled across this blog searching for information about something else. However, upon seeing the bullying of anyone who posted a comment suggesting a God. I fealt the need to defend not God, nor the believers, but the idea that there is a possibility, from the arrogance of dismissal. This arrogant dismissal, not the belief in something that is as yet not measurable, is anti-science. WOW- I also defend your choice to not believe in something you currently can not measure, but would advise that until a thing has been scientifically proven impossible that you approach it with an open mind, as closed minds are the enemy of science. Live your life well and I wish you the best.

So, to those who thoroughly understand the Earth wobble I would like to ask a question. I garden, and am planning a new vegetable garden for the season, and it appears, from my point of view, that the sun is rising a full 20 degrees from where it did 2 years ago, and 2 years ago (the last time I observed this), it seemed to have moved about 5 degrees, all toward my apparent North. Can anyone explain why this seems to be accelerating? Should it be? Others who garden that I have spoken to say they have noticed the same thing. I have been unable to find an answer. I suspect that it may be a trick of perspective, but it is playing hell with trying to map the shade on my property. Also, how would a trick of perspective explain others observations?
Thank you to anyone who may be able to help.

Such an angry fundamentalist.

Such idiocy!

What is my fundamentalism?

And already said: my anger is at YOU, you moron.

Not bothering to read? Don't care if you're making things up (like your god, for example)? Completely oblivious of what others say if it doesn't fit what you think should be there? Something else? Come on, what's the reason you ignore my point that it's you making me angry?

However, upon seeing the bullying of anyone who posted a comment suggesting a God.

Post it on a religious site.

Look at the anger, hostility and bullying of anyone who posts a comment suggesting god is a fiction!

But that doesn't count, because you think THAT is "justified".

This arrogant dismissal,

The same arrogant dismissal you have for the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Or Eru. Or Cthulu.

But you don't see that because you think that's "reasonable".

Which is why science shouldn't have to put up with religious bollocks.

Believe what you like, don't keep shoving your private faith into others faces.

Can anyone explain why this seems to be accelerating?

It isn't.

Why you think it is is anyone's guess. It's not a science question, though.

And there's good reason for any taxpayer to be annoyed at religion:

http://entertainment.slashdot.org/story/15/04/13/2344213/legislation-wo…

The law here proposes that Christian Radio be exempt.

WHY?

They need copy right and broadcast/public performance rights just like any other radio station.

By avoiding taxes they ensure that services are cut or taxes raised for everyone else.

Note that the constitutional prohibition against proffering a state religion is being arrogantly ignored here, for religious reasons.

When I was young, I used to put the blame on God for all the mishappenings, but the bible tells us that in order to save us, God came to this world to die a slow, painful and shameful death. God almighty, ruler and creator of the universe, Alpha and Omega. What restricted him? What law governs even him in such a way that he couldn't save us without being bled to death on a cross? We don't know what's like up there, all we can do is to submit ourselves to his salvation.. like sheeps following the shepherd.

When I was young, I used to put the blame on God for all the mishappenings

Yup, children can be far smarter than adults. Until the adults screw that up.

God came to this world to die a slow, painful and shameful death.

No he didn't.

Didn't die, didn't come to this world, didn't even have to do any of that if it DID exist (which it doesn't), because it had to forgive us. And any normal human being can do that by saying "I forgive you".

It's a fiction. There's no more truth in the bible than in Lord of The Rings.

Even though the Shire is based on a bucolic England, and England DOES exist, the work is STILL a work of fiction.

Isaiah 43:5
Do not be afraid, for I am with you; I will bring your children from the east and gather you from the west.

Isaiah 43:6
I will say to the north, 'Give them up!' and to the south, 'Do not hold them back.' Bring my sons from afar and my daughters from the ends of the earth--

Praise the Lord! For he has fufilled his prophecy in 1948!

The Great Commission
14Afterward He appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at the table; and He reproached them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who had seen Him after He had risen. 15And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.

Praise the Lord! You started out with eleven disciples, yet you knew your gospel will be spread all over the world!

When nobody stoned the woman accused of adultry, Jesus said to her, ' your sins are forgiven '

God inspired me to complete this sentence as belows

' your sins are forgiven, I will die for you on the cross '

@ nsysuzian
There must be more appropriate sites for you to prosletyze your faith on. If you have not gathered by now, Ethan shares the science we look forward to reading & learning about each week here.
Commenting ' on the topic ' is always welcomed.

"Jesus said to her"

Who? Oh, that fictional character.

Well, he didn't say anything. "A story said".

Why bother to reply to these godbotherers?
If you know that one day everything in this universe is going to fade away into nothing.
Everything you care,everything you get angry about, your memories of the world, your knowledge of the world,
your love ones, including yourself

What's the point of creating a clean blog free of godbotherers so that you don't get angry over?

Why bother to reply to these godbotherers?

Why bother plastering your mythology everywhere? If god really existed, he'd let us know, not leave it to puny humans with their incorrect interpretations to come up with ten thousand different stories about god to confuse us all.

Why do I bother? Because your mythology is a pox on civilisation. It infects your children and then infects theirs, thorough generations.

Because it is only used to do what the person "believing" wants to do anyway, and gives them "moral authority" from the voice in their head telling them to kill the infidel or the doctor or the heathen. And is forced on children so they will do the same in the future.

Because it deserves every scintilla of ridicule offered.

Because YOU came here with your religious dogmatic tripe. Did I come to YOUR place of worship and start telling everyone that they're wasting their lives on their silly mythology? No. It's place where you talk about your myths. Yet you come here where the conversation isn't religion and disrupt.

You xtian nutballs want, nay, demand, nay cry oceans of tears because you think you're not getting any respect, yet show none at all for the fact that NOBODY is going to your place where you talk about religion and, unasked, proffer up something from a completely non religious source.

You deserve vastly more disrespect than you are getting.

Yet you whine and whinge that you're not allowed to be bigoted morons with other people and we must "respect" your faith, rather than ridicule it as the infantile mythology it is at every turn, including your churches, your government and your schools. Not because it's hateful, though your religion is, but because you need to learn what it's like not being religious in your presence.

Maybe then you'd learn some humanity. Maybe then you'd ACTUALLY respect other opinions, rather than base it on what you consider "respecting".

See the Muslim cartoon thing. THEY think that they respect Jesus as a prophet, therefore YOU must respect their Mohammed.

Yet you don't.

1) You don't think it wrong to draw images of JC, so don't think it wrong to draw images of Mohammed
2) You don't think Mohammed was a prophet of god
3) You don't like that they don't think JC was the son of god, and that's what you think is *disrespecting* him, therefore you should disrespect their Mohammed.

They want their religion respected according to THEIR definitions of what respecting it is.

Just like you do with yours.

Try not being religious. Try being openly anti-religious. See what it's like, what respect you are given, in that case.

I'm treating you and your fatuous myth with the respect you show here.

If you're right, then why bother telling me?

When Jesus came upon the group of people preparing to stone the woman, he said "Let those among you who is without sin cast the first stone."

Most of the crowd moved back, but one women, carrying a large rock, moved forward, then dashed the rock on the head of the victim, killing her.

The villagers slowly left the scene, leaving the victim, the woman who had done the deed, and Jesus, who said:

"Mom, sometimes you really piss me off."

Just as supportable as the biblical story.

You have answered my first question, but you have not answered my 2nd question...

Try do think of me as someone who is totally not religious,
don't talk about me, just answer the question

Here:
If you know that one day everything in this universe is going to fade away into nothing.
Everything you care,everything you get angry about, your memories of the world, your knowledge of the world,
your love ones, including yourself

What’s the point?

Do I hove to answer every question, godbotherer moron?

No.

You haven't answered how you know YOUR myth happens, out of the several thousands known, to be the one and only true account of a reality that a supreme being cannot manage the damn effort to clear up a confusion over.

But you don't care, do you? You think that if you talk about god then this means you're doing good, therefore the evil you do is fine.

What's the point of God? You aren't saying some god created them, so what's their purpose?

If they don't need one, why do you?

I don't.

@#178 I believe
That was pretty good.
Thanks for sharing

Yeah, very christian.

You guys are all "We're nice people, we want what's best for you!" but only as long as you get the undeserved respect you think you should. If you don't, then you stop being nice.

Because you're not being nice because you're nice people, but because you want your own way.

Wow, are you hallucinating again?

If you know that one day everything in this universe is going to fade away into nothing.
Everything you care,everything you get angry about, your memories of the world, your knowledge of the world,
your love ones, including yourself

What’s the point?"

Of your question? That isn't clear. Of the existence of the universe? There probably isn't one. Of a person's existence in the universe? Difficult to say: some wish to explain how things work, some want other things. Of religion? To allow a few to control the lives of others, support those who want to live well by telling the masses that accumulation of wealth is not necessary, stifle rational thought and education, marginalize "others" (the definition of other varies from cult to cult), reduce the role of women to reproduction and nothing else, and constantly warn of impending doom in an attempt to keep the existing power structure in place by spreading fear of change.

Dean,
Have you ever heard of The Cult of Reason, surely you have heard of the French Revolution?

yes, but surely you are not saying the only choices are the two extremes? That is as foolish as saying "because we don't understand everything about the way evolution works creationism is the correct answer."

Oh, no Denier is saying that you can ONLY pick from the choice he's made, by making out that any alternative is wrong or bad or evil or just plain unpleasant.

Denier isn't claiming there are TWO choices of extreme, they're trying to claim there's only one choice or an extreme alternative.

It will burn out because yellow stars do burn out but it will take like millions of years

If a child ask me what happens after the sun dies it would have to be a simple reply. Like, the universe is forever expanding. So pick out any star you like and make it into what you think the world should be. Because within us all is energy call it your soul or call it a life force, that energy never fads away what happens with it is up to you. So don't corrupt it with idle thoughts or belongings of this planet.

VERY NICELY WRITTEN...ALSO FOR MORE INFORMATION READ AN INTERESTING BLOG ,https://lalwanijatin44.wordpress.com/2015/06/18/what-if-someday-sun-dis…

I don't think anybody knows. How could they? You are all just supposing, and this might be a nice way to explain astronomy to children, but we could ALL have nightmares trying to understand this.

I don't think anybody knows. You're all just scaring each other with wild hypotheses.

"I don’t think anybody knows."

We know it to any definition that can be attained about a future event. We've SEEN it happen. SN1987a.

Nothing special about our star that ensures it will last forever.

So, no we DO know. You just don't.

"Because within us all is energy call it your soul or call it a life force, that energy never fads away what happens with it is up to you"

Why make that up?

Just tell them that the same thing but leave that out. It has nothing to do with what is around other stars and can only cause more problems later in life.

If they ASK, then let them know that nobody can know, but what makes life precious:is if it is limited. If it ends, it is WORTH something, so look to do something you can be proud of with it.

If this all a dress rehearsal for some "afterlife" performance, this life is very much worthless.

And if the "real deal" is eternal, then that life is also worthless because there's no way to manage to keep it fill with anything more than an infinitesimally small fraction of something worth doing.

Hosannah's won't last a month, even for the most ridiculously religious fanatic.

My opinion is not a popular one. There's nothing as dramatic as our Sun becoming a red giant or supernova in it. I think our Sun and this planet can be eternal. Most think of the Universe as nonreactionary to our thoughts and behaviors. I think sociology and psychology are as recognizable to the Universe as the planet, moon, and stars. We will learn that elemental reaction to the human presence goes far beyond the Double Slit Experiment. The elemental exchange and renewal for an eternal existence is within the human grasp. We are not at the end of science but the dawn of it's beginning. We will discover more and more how our presence and behavior command the space we live in. That shouldn't be difficult for a 3rd grader to digest at all. Just remember you heard it here first. HomeKeeperU.com.

"My opinion is not a popular one"

Since you open with that, even YOU consider it worthless.

So why did you post?

"I think our Sun and this planet can be eternal."

So why do you think that? What evidence led you to that thought? Or was there no thought at all. Just woo.

"That shouldn’t be difficult for a 3rd grader to digest at all."

Anyone who passed 3rd grade would know enough to avoid swallowing that credulous rubbish.

I really enjoyed ur post, I'm 31 and learnt a lot myself, I've 3 kids 11,6,5 and none have ever asked me a question like that, I'd just say it's not gonna happen in this life of urs and then have to explain souls and reincarnation which is a belief I have not much science in it but at least that way there is no fear of death instilled in them which can happen today tomorrow 10, 50, 80 years away not billions

"wow" u have had me in stiches throughout this entire post. I just wondered if u have heard of a drug dmt? aparently it's realised in the brain on death, that's what I've read, well I truly believe someone spiked my drink with it once because when I came to I felt at ease, like I understood how the universe worked, that there is not just wars on earth but in the universe, and that we were from a creator that we are given life to experience feelings and understanding, learn from what we experience in previous lives, and the work out way up into what I really dunno, it's like I can never remember the ending. but I do know this life is hard has ups and downs. this was obviously a trip I had, I believe shamans use dmt. well anyway after embracing that feeling of "omg I think I'm dead" to "I'm a ghost " to "no I can't leave my kids, my family", to "utter undeniable love where I was so happy from feeling so much love", to "what I would say I traveled through a kaleidoscope" to "meeting dead relatives". it was the best trip of my life. and I felt assured, I've made changes to improve myself since, I'm taken by spirituality, "not God" I feel I'm spiritual, I believe in something and a purpose of any life, to learn from my mistakes, and let me make my own mistakes no one can tell me what to do. I'm still learning.

so "wow" what's ur comment on that? I can guess "u was just tripping" well at least I've learnt and feel I have value in life now, which I never used to

this post is great!!! all I did was ask google why In the past 100 -200 years have we developed so quickly compared to the rest of our existence and it just told me on the everything we r all doomed, but this caught my attention cause I always told my dad as a kid I want to be an astrologer or an archeologist, Ive actually nearly become a nurse and I'm now a hairdresser ? there is actually a lot of science in colour techniques and I'm a hands on person, I might not be an archiologist, an astrologist, a nurse but I'm really happy now, and that's what u need to teach ur kids, not how the sun is gonna die and so will we, but how to live ur life happy doing what u want to, with no stress

I forgot to request the follow ups so I'm doing it now ?

"and then have to explain souls and reincarnation "

And what if you're wrong?

Your children will grow up thinking that they exist too, because mum said they did.

And when they become teenagers, they will find out how little that is correct and it will form part of the reasoning why they will rebel.

If you let them know that this is merely what you think because it makes you feel better, then good on you, because they will have more respect for you when they pass the teenager problem years.

If you just told them they exist, then bad on you for forcing them down the same path you went. Let them learn their own way on things that can't be supported with natural evidence.

Carrie you thought all those things because when you were little you were TOLD all those things. And when your brain was tripping, it used it to furnish the fantasy.

Some Shinto who never heard of an afterlife would not see one. They wouldn't feel a "god".

Your brain has been primed by your culture, nothing more.

"I believe in something and a purpose of any life,"

And that purpose is to be alive after your dead for eternity??? What the hell is the purpose of life if you just get to have even more of it later?

You are confusing a purpose to life with the fear of life ending.You think that if there's a purpose, there must be more life after this one so you can try again because there doesn't seem to be any purpose to it this time round.

And how can those dead people be there if they reincarnated? Surely this experience should have killed off the reincarnation idea. That it hasn't should show you that there's no rationality behind either your vision or your idea.

"well at least I’ve learnt and feel I have value in life now, which I never used to"

You didn't learn, and I already HAVE value in life now, as do most atheists, without that sort of BS to "believe" in, Which, as noted earlier, you don't actually believe.

Why did you need to trip out, THEN make crap up about how your tripping visions primed by your social upbringing to feel life had a value (and you never actually say what that is, if you experienced something, surely you can explain what you experienced as proving the value of life), when you ought to have been able to value life and find purpose in yours without all that?

Like me.

Wow. Just wow. This has become a fucking religion debate. This needs to be closed.

For which you had to dig through the archives to find.

You seem desperate to find something to get het up about, therefore you being het up about this rather indicates this is a positive feature and should continue.

God is a stupid and ancient concept. Just saying.

Wow

Don't worry I agree with you.

P.S. All I had to do to find this is to type the title into google and bam.

Aye, but it's not really a problem that godbotherers infest the place if you have to google to find their shit, is it. So complaining about their rubbish isn't really the point.

If they post BS, then call it out, or make fun of it, or explain patiently, whatever you feel like.

If they complain that you're not being nice, let them know you're just treating them like they treat others, and according to their golden rule, this is 100% what they want, since they want to be treated like they treat others.

It isn't necessary to necro a thread merely to complain about the godbothering going on it months ago. It's a tad late, and all it does is bring the god bothering back up on the list.

If you use only current threads, or if someone else necros it, then feel free. The point of it is to make them feel like they don't want to godbomb a science discussion with mythology. If it's necroed, then there's little difference to them between godbothering today and not.

Think of this like potty training a slow two year old, or a recalcitrant puppy.

Yeah I suppose so, lol. Thanks Wow.

"If they complain that you’re not being nice, let them know you’re just treating them like they treat others"

Toss the baby out with the bath water eh?

"It isn’t necessary to necro a thread merely to complain about the godbothering going on it months ago."

LMFAO, coming from the biggest necro twerp on this blog.

"Toss the baby out with the bath water eh?"

A non-sequitur, eh?

"LMFAO"

No, the geological societies have not registered the event in their earthquake monitors, so this patently did not happen.

Maybe your slack jaw confused you that your ass has fallen off, given the shit that spews out of it all the time.

"God is a stupid and ancient concept. Just saying."
Nope, God is in fact a reality of mankind.
What you fail to realize id that "God" is part of mankind's society one way or another.
Either by spiritual worship and inspired doctrine. OR by Mandates and Laws enforced by "force".

When you remove "God" from society you only create a vacuum that will be filled by "Man".
It's really that simple.

That is why the U.S Declaration of independence is so Important for clear thinking men to appreciate:

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."

If you can't grasp that there concept, I pity your soul.

"Nope, God is in fact a reality of mankind."

Yup, like all fiction. That's why, just like fiction, there are so many of them.

"When you remove “God” from society you only create a vacuum that will be filled by “Man”."

So what? It's already filled by man, just the man in your head that you pretend is god. At the very least, by getting rid of god, you get rid of people thinking the voices in their head is god, and that their insanity is holy.

"That is why the U.S Declaration of independence is so Important for clear thinking men to appreciate:"

No connection there AT ALL.

You DO know that the founding fathers were the closest thing to atheists that age would allow to live,right? And that they designed a SECULAR society, because they saw the fuckup that governing with Holy Writ made.

"If you can’t grasp that there concept, I pity your soul."

We get it: you're a moron. And we don't have a soul. It doesn't exist.

Thank you for calming my intense anxiety. I would start hyperventalating and shit over this stuff... But you made me understand and be happy about this upcoming event... Thanks!

"You DO know that the founding fathers were the closest thing to atheists that age would allow to live,right? "
No they were not Idiot so please don't try and snake oil that old talking point So be wise and do not go there least you look like a fool.
I will leave you with this. They were going against the the Crown which failure pretty much meant drawn at the quarter, burned at the stake ect.. Your family would have been wiped off the face of the earth.

So ask yourself to contrast these folks:,
An American Revolutionary going against the crown.
A terrorist shooter in the name of Allah

OR a fat slob atheist who sits in mommies basement trying to reassure fellow shallow thinking members of the lonely atheist club to hi 5 em on a post.?
When I see the Wowzers of the world strap on bombs for their "Unbelief" then you will have my attention.

"So what? It’s already filled by man, just the man in your head that you pretend is god. At the very least, by getting rid of god, you get rid of people thinking the voices in their head is god, and that their insanity is holy."

That's the whole point. You claim the God of Abraham is mythical. I claim your god (belief in man alone) of humanism is a myth. And In Fact, I can back it up in real time, Your god (Govt) in living color
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfl55GgHr5E
Just google it, heck it's all over as A BIG FAILURE!!!!!
NEXT????
MeMe2 or Woozy?
C'mon, I laugh in your face. You humanist face because you folks are so full of malarkey.

"“You DO know that the founding fathers were the closest thing to atheists that age would allow to live,right? ”
No they were not "

Yes they were you moron.

http://www.freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html

"They were going against the the Crown"

Which has fuck all to do with their christianity.

"That’s the whole point. "

What's the whole point? You WANT to believe that the voice in your head is god, not you, and therefore you're holy and anything you do is right?

That's psychopathy.

"I claim your god (belief in man alone"

Therefore not god. Belief in something doesn't make it real. Not if you're older than 4, anyway.

"of humanism is a myth"

If humans are a myth, then where are you? You don't exist.

"I can back it up in real time"

Nope, you are disproving your claim in real time. You are typing. Ergo humans are not a myth.

"Just google it, heck it’s all over as A BIG FAILURE!!!!!"

Of god?

And what the hell are you supposedly thinking you are proving with that vid? That you think black men (even if half white) is the embodiment of Satan, ergo you're a raving maniac?

You laugh at the spots on the wall too. If you were anything approaching sanity, your censure would have little effect, as it is, it has no effect whatsoever.

Oh, by the way, the answer to the asinine question at the end is "Yes".

"So ask yourself to contrast these folks:,
An American terrorist murdering their lawful government.
A Muslim Revolutionary going against the invaders of their homeland"

FTFY.

"When I see the Wowzers of the world strap on bombs for their “Unbelief” then you will have my attention."

Well, you admit that it takes religion and belief to be a terrorist and become a suicide bomber. However, you appear to think that this is a GOOD THING, to blow up the innocent.

From your link:
"None of the Founding Fathers were atheists. Most of the Founders were Deists, which is to say they thought the universe had a creator, but that he does not concern himself with the daily lives of humans"

Now from the Declaration of Independence Itself:
"Nature's God" "created equal" " Divine Providence" It's all there ya little dope.

They knew what it meant to go against The Mighty British Empire. However, they had the spirit of "Divine Providence" moving them.
AGAIN, When I see the Wowzers of the world act as the patriots did OR strap on bombs for their “Unbelief” then you will have my attention as someone who is down with the cause.
Otherwise your just a bunch of candy ass blowhards hiding behind your keystrokes who parse words of the complexes English language and the western politics to try and gloss over the reality of "Divine Providence".

"You WANT to believe that the voice in your head is god, not you, and therefore you’re holy and anything you do is right?

That’s psychopathy."

Nope, it's called the voice of reason.
When I stop and look both ways at the traffic before I cross
I am listening to a voice in my head from years gone by.
Is that "psychopathy".

"“of humanism is a myth”

If humans are a myth, then where are you? ""

non se·qui·tur.........Next?

"And what the hell are you supposedly thinking you are proving with that vid? That you think black men (even if half white) is the embodiment of Satan, ergo you’re a raving maniac?"

My thoughts are that people like yourself place faith in "Man" to solve his problems alone. This leads you astray because the rule book is a "Living Change". Who ever the hell is ruling can change the rules or at least bullshit you into believing it so you will go along.
Obammy made all these out of his ass promises that have NEVER been fulfilled and yet.
How the Piss all can you call me a lunatic when this Leader of the free world is flat ass out lying to your face is beyond my comprehension.
From my vantage point "HE (AND YOU) ARE THE PSYCHOPATHS"

“So ask yourself to contrast these folks:,
An American terrorist murdering their lawful government.
A Muslim Revolutionary going against the invaders of their homeland”
FTFY.

Thanks, However, you (as usual) "missed the mark" in your contextual problem solving.
What is/was the outcome. or as we have debated in the past "The Fruits Of differing views in practice (no cherry picking now)?

Get up to speed will ya please?
Read: http://www.amazon.com/1776-David-McCullough/dp/0743226720

“None of the Founding Fathers were atheists"

And from my post:

“You DO know that the founding fathers were the closest thing to atheists that age would allow to live,right? ”

FAIL!

"Now from the Declaration of Independence Itself:"

And from my link:

"The Declaration is not a governing document. It mentions "Nature's God" and "Divine Providence"-- but as you will soon see, that's the language of Deism, not Christianity"

FAIL!

"My thoughts are that people like yourself place faith in “Man” to solve his problems alone. "

Yup. We can. Well, we grown ups can. Children and the childlike incompetents like yourself can't. But that doesn't stop you making your infantile internal monologue "the law of the land", even in a land where that was SPECIFICALLY REFUTED IN THE CONSTITUTION.

"From my vantage point “HE (AND YOU) ARE THE PSYCHOPATHS” "

Yup, and all serial killers think that they are fine and sane and they are merely killing those that need killing.

Doesn't make those nutbars sane.

"Thanks, However, you (as usual) “missed the mark”"

Nope, got right on it.

You used words that predicated a worldview on those two that you want to believe is the case. The words were "justifiable" by selecting the point of view that doesn't consider one side bad but will consider the other one evil.

I put words into that predicated a worldview on those two that you DO NOT want to believe is the case. The words were just as "justifiable" by the same methods and the same selectivity.

Yet you are so blind to anything other than your internal monologue (wot is god), that you cannot see and will not see.

So you go wandering off on tangents down closeted boulevards and wonder where all the sane people at.

"They knew what it meant to go against The Mighty British Empire."

Yeah, they knew that it was against christianity:

"For rebellion as is the sin of witchcraft." 1 Samuel, 15:23

all of what youre saying is corect but why would you tell this to kids

Because we can't keep telling kids lies, jack.

the sun will die and kill us all

what will happen to the world afer the sun dies?

"the sun will die and kill us all"

You'll be dead billions of years before that happens, so stop with the histrionics, nobody believes you.

"what will happen to the world afer the sun dies?"

It will be dead too.

I read the first few posts and then the last few of this Article. You went from discussing a Teacher trying to teach a Child about the end of life in a fashion that would not scare the child to death to arguing about the Founding Fathers of the USA. Wow, that is asinine! The Founding Fathers have nothing to do with the death of the Sun and just as little to do with the majority of the people on Earth! Not many people care about the USA's history and I would imagine even less are worried about the death of the Sun. C'mon!!

I'm not so sure that the universe will end. We have no idea what the universe was like before the Big Bang, and we have no idea what the conditions were to set it off. Who says another Big Bang is impossible somewhere else in the universe? I'm pretty sure we aren't able to look far enough to exclude it.
Also, who says we have seen all the possible events of space or even can see with our senses.

I take comfort in one thought and that's that it took the universe only billions of years to create "me", and if something happened in nature once, it's more likely to happen again than something that never happened before, even if it's going to take 10 to the millionth power of time to do it :)

Despite many things going around, no. The sun will not, ever never, by any chance, explode. Although, we never know. I could be wrong. But the chances of that are very low. Incredibly low. When the time comes, it will just burn out like a lightbulb (though very slowly) and collapse into a white dwarf. Plus, by then we would have invented so many things, goodness knows if we could just teleport to another galaxy. There's nothing to worry about. Just put your feet up and relax.

"The sun will not, ever never, by any chance, explode. Although, we never know. I could be wrong. "

Goodness. You managed to contradict yourself in the very next sentence. How did you manage that?

"When the time comes, it will just burn out like a lightbulb (though very slowly) and collapse into a white dwarf."

No, it will go out like all the other suns of about this mass (or indeed any sun less than about twice this weight). With a nova. We've SEEN them. We know it.The chances of anything different, especially your whacko version are billions and billions to one against.

There's nothing to worry about except that the future may have idiots like yourself in it, wondering why everyone is worried about you teleporting random objects into the middle of their heads.

"I’m not so sure that the universe will end."

Define "end.".

However, the topic isn't the universe ending.

"Who says another Big Bang is impossible somewhere else in the universe?"

Some people. There are really good reasons to think it won't. And the theoretical issues that would make it are speculative at the moment.

But again, it's bugger all to do with the topic.

Do you often have conversations on the internet where the only participant is your own imagination?

"and if something happened in nature once, it’s more likely to happen again than something that never happened before"

Nope. Absolutely doesn't follow. Complete bollocks.

kilopani

I'm speachless because of all the comments that are arguing.

Well, you certainly didn't manage to say anything there, Roy.

What made you speechless? Why? And what is anyone supposed to do about it?

You guys are so stupid to think that the sun will explode(unless you count the planetary nebulae, which isn't really an explosion) It will swell to a red giant in 5 billion years and will shed its outer layers, leaving its dense core; a white dwarf. It is to small to explode. I mean come on guys I'm 12 and i know this stuff. Get your facts right.

You guys are stupid to think that it will explode. The mass of the sun is not proportionate to the amount needed for it to blow. The Hydrogen will be exhausted near the end of it's life and the outer layers will swell and drift away as a planetary nebulae. We'll die either way, but it will not go boom boom. I mean come on I'm 12 and I know this stuff. Get your facts right.

Sorry, you haven't a clue of either anything you're talking about, nor how to use words.

"unless you count the planetary nebulae, which isn’t really an explosion"

No explosion can go faster than the speed of sound. And the speed of sound is quite low in the sun's atmosphere. And it';s very big indeed, so any speed will seem slow.

Knowing these, care to elaborate on what you think you mean by explosion and why a nova isn't one?

So then gravity no longer exists

everything really doesn't even exist

Trevor Dutrizac

What? Care to elaborate?

JUST A BAD DREAM I GUESS...SAW A STAR OR SOMETHING HIT THE SUN EXPLODED...PITCH DARK HEARD SOME PEOPLE PANACKING. I WOKE UP SHAKING.

But will human still be there

This gave me nightmeres last night i was scared i had to sleep down stairs i snuck down at 5:05 lol