What do you think? Is the Catholic hierarchy cheering or cringing at the words of this Brazilian archbishop* and his excuses for the child abuse scandals in the church?
Archbishop Grings, a 73-year-old priest with conservative views, said the gradual acceptance of homosexuality by the public was a precursor to a possible broad acceptance of paedophilia.
"When sexuality is banalised it is clear that that can have an effect on all cases. Homosexuality is one case. Before, no one spoke of the homosexual. He was discriminated against," he said.
"When we start to say that they [homosexuals] have rights, rights to publicly demonstrate, in a short time paedophilia will also have rights."
Oh, yes, let us return to the good old days, when homosexuals could be discriminated against. That's all we need to fix up the church scandals!
His central premise is that "society today is paedophile", and that's why Catholics are having such problems — it's not their fault. Unfortunately for his thesis, the only place where there seems to be a broad acceptance of pedophilia is the Catholic church.
*For some reason, that phrase conjures up images of a wrinkly uncircumcised penis on a waxed crotch. It seems appropriate here.
- Log in to post comments
... in a short time paedophilia will also have rights.
Is that a prophecy, or wishful thinking?
At least Grings has advanced to the point where he doesn't speak in Comic Sans...
"For some reason, that phrase conjures up images of a wrinkly uncircumcised penis on a waxed crotch."
It didn't for me, until you mentioned it...ugh. Thanks PZ, now how am I supposed to eat breakfast with that image in my head?
Pedophilia isn't illegal, nor is being a pedophile nor is homosexuality nor is just experimenting. Raping children, however, is illegal. I know, it's complicated, and clearly society's fault *eyeroll*
So basically because people engage in consensual acts of sex which the church disagrees with it is inevitable that given time raping children will be acceptable?
a) Surely this would work better if rather than advocating gay rights etc there was a large advocacy and general acceptance of the rights of rapists - then at least you'd be on the same slippery slope.
b) I guess then that the Catholic church, in harboring child rapists, is just being socially ahead of the curve? Give it a hundred years or so and we'll be looking back at what a socially forward thinking organization the church was.
Ah, the old slippery slope fallacy. As if society is unable to tell the difference between sex between consenting adults and the raping of children.
NEXT THING YOU KNOW PEOPLE WILL BE MARRYING THEIR CAT OR MAYBE THREE CATS AND A COUCH!!!
I'm so adding that word to the Urban Dictionary after my test today.
I agree with JagyrEbonwood, but at least I've already had breakfast.
:-)
Rev @6
Or a pillow. ;-)
Do I BBQ this baby, or marry it?
Choices, choices.
As I said over at RD.net yesterday, Archbishop Grings should be banned for the rest of his life in Antarctica for being an ignorant asshole.
Really, Archbishop? I believe it was in the hayday of the Dark Ages and the Holy Roman Empire where child brides were en vogue. Or does it not count when it's little girls being sold off into marriages? A thing which, by the way, Muslims engage in openly and proudly to this day because
hey, Mohammed himself married a 6 year old girl.
Homosexual sex is like Heterosexual sex: betweenm two consenting ADULTS. It truly takes religion to make sexual objects out of children.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.." -- Voltaire
You know, telling people that this world doesn't matter, that rationality is not to be trusted, that mankind cannot escape sin, that human sexuality is vile, that imperfection is a crime, that salvation lies in recognizing that your crimes need forgiveness, that all life is a hierarchical chain of master and servant, that God has instituted His own church on earth, and that the most important character trait you can develop is meek obedience to a divine authority and his lords -- seems more connected to not only pedophilia, but the cover-up of pedophilia, than it does to homosexuality.
Bringing in "natural law" to justify and formulate ideas on morality can cut both ways. It's religion -- meaning, the only thing about it that isn't arbitrary is that it has to be dogmatic and absolute.
Exactly. I fail to see how this essential distinction continually escapes the Catholic Church when they keep pulling out the "accepting homosexuality is like accepting pedophilia!"
Blaming society's growing tolerance and acceptance of consenting relationships between two adults of the same sex for the Church's blatant abuse of power to cover up years upon years of sexual abuse of children? Who wants to follow an organization that can't take responsibility for its own fuck ups, refuses to do anything to rectify the situation, blocks any attempts at justice and does nothing to prevent it from ever happening again? Shit like that is why the Church is losing followers in ever-larger numbers.
"For some reason, that phrase conjures up images of a wrinkly uncircumcised penis on a waxed crotch. It seems appropriate here."
Not to mention Scrotum, the Archbishop's old wrinkled retainer.
Seems a lot of the cases against priests are for offences that took place before homosexuality was "accepted" seeing as it really still hasn't been.
Homosexuals and their right to demonstrate. Yeah, that's why priests have been raping children.
Also, does he not see that the RCC has been extending rights to paedophiles that no-one else thinks should be extended to them? Namely, allowing them to continue to abuse children?
What a jackass.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/04/11/connecticut.abuse.bill/index.html
I'll let this link speak for itself.
What priests did to children, Grings is doing to logic and reason.
Only one day and we have the first square crossed out in Vatican Excuse Bingo.
This seems like a testable hypothesis: set up a large group of people who don't accept gays and see if they commit any acts of pedophilia, if they do, they theory is wrong. Oh, yeah, we already have that.
So effectively the Good Archbishop is saying, "Look, we practice this religion shit all the time and even we're unable to resist the power of an idol such as a rainbow flag on St. Patrick's Day."
I think it's an important step that the Catholic Church has taken. If they can recognise that those most steeped in religion—those who lead others in prayer and thoughts of God and Christian morality multiple times a week—are unable to stop themselves from committing acts even incarcerated prisoners find abhorrent, then surely they're close to acknowledging that religion is by no means a force for good in the world.
One day I hope the evangelicals can own up to the emptiness of their own faith.
"Hey! The needle on this moral compass is just painted on!"
And that is clearly demonstrated by the fact that so few of the many sexual abuse crimes committed by priests against children were committed during an era when homosexual acts were a crime, and homosexuals were generally reviled and stayed in the closet.
How are people in the church not completely losing their shit on him over this?
I really think that the parishioners who don't speak out against this asshole are in part to blame for the continued covering up.
Re: #17
From the article:
The RCC is shitting a brick. I'm imagining an archbishop sitting in a office somewhere, staring at a stack of filing cabinets marked "Safe From Litigation", filled with dread over the prospect of having to go through all those files and move them back into the "Potential Liabilities" section.
we can hope
Semi-related: on the radio today I heard a local bishop actually say that the RCC had always been on the forefront of protecting human rights.
I so wanted to call in and say that I could think of some groups who might disagree: Jews, Huguenots, Albigenses, any other group accused of heresy, "witches," gay people, women with unwanted pregnancies, and, oh yes, the victims of priestly child rape. However, I was in my car and I don't talk on my cell while driving (it's not illegal in my state, but I think it ought to be).
It is hard to believe this kind of ahistorical, self-congratulatory rosy thinking still exists.
In the words of Tim Minchin: Fuck the motherfucker.
I can't believe this man openly spoke in favor of discrimination, using that very word.
When the news came out about the little girl getting excommunicated for getting a life-saving abortion after her stepfather raped her, it was also said that sexual abuse of little girls was somewhat epidemic in Brazil. So maybe that's what this Bishop is referring to - that Brazil isn't taking the welfare of its female children seriously. However, instead of rallying for the rights and protection of women and girls, the Church blames secular society and gay rights activists for its own transgressions. With all due respect: fuck you, Grings.
History, both old and recent, would not seem to support Archbishop Grings.
The rise in acceptance of homosexuality in society has been marked by an equal decline in the acceptance of pedophilia.
"Antique celibate" -I'm stealing this!
What a sick disgusting fuck. His words are those of a criminal.
Well, since humans apparently reach puberty at birth according to some, all of this is consensual anyway, but if it's not, then it's teh ghey, and if it's not that, then they actually wanted it. It's the pre-born who are really at risk because they are innocents.
I don't get what everyone is so upset about. Thankfully we can still do immaculate conceiving with the virgin nuns.
So how much stupid shit does the Catholic hierarchy have to spout before it become ok to advocate systematically murdering them all? Because I seriously think that might do society some good.
Wait, so missionary-only is responsible for pedophilia?
I think at this point it's probably adequate to give them all bottles of bleach with the "do not ingest" part of the label scratched off.
... He desperately hopes, as he faps away while the cops knock on his door.
@MS #26:
He's not entirely wrong; it's just that those groups haven't always fit the Church's definition of 'human'.
Good on you for being proactive.
As the bumper sticker goes: "Christians aren't perfect; just forgiven." Nearest I can tell, that translates for many Christians into "we can do all the same bad shit as everyone else because it doesn't count against us."
PZ: *For some reason, that phrase conjures up images of a wrinkly uncircumcised penis on a waxed crotch.
And with Peyronie's disease, of course.
Well, the Catholic church is well-known for being ahead of the curve, socially. And progressive on other issues too. We're all just trying to catch up.
Oh, yes, let us return to the good old days, when homosexuals could be discriminated against.
We're still living in the "good old days" so far as anti-gay discrimination is concerned.
... and there was much cheering and applause.
At least that's what it seems like he's saying. "Good news, everybody, now that homosexuality is becoming accepted, soon paedophilia will too, hurray!"
Shplaner #34 wrote:
I don't; I think it would compound the problem. To put it mildly. Frontier justice? Mass genocide? Egads.
My apologies if you were kidding, and my sarcasm detector is malfunctioning. It does sound like a parody of "how atheists would respond to injustice."
My suspicion: That the abuse has been going on for a very long time and the only new thing is people talking about it and priests getting caught.
So in a way the bishop may be right. The “gradual acceptance of homosexuality” is part of a general trend that includes people openly talking about sexual matters.
So give us homos the credit for a cultural climate that finally lets these criminals get caught. Yay homos :)
Another prediction for Abp Grings: Someday science will find a way to combine the RC Church's two strongest passions, and priests will be able to rape fetuses.
Could someone please design a font called Pathetic Sans?
Re: #17 From article,
That would be acceptable.
Are we sure the archbishop is celibate?
Some choose a life of celibacy, others have it thrust upon them. I bet a dollar it's both in this case.
PZ, the bishop's words should certainly be written in Comic Sans.
Being a Brazilian citizen, I'm apalled, to say the least. My country is very backwards regarding the acceptance of homosexuality as something normal -- patriarchalism and all its horrors are quite strong in our culture. That awful Big Brother show aired here some time ago, and guess who the audience picked as the winner? A raging homophobe. Homophobia, it seems, is still fashionable here. Many people still swallow Catholicism's lies -- the bishop's statement that homosexuality = paedophilia is likely to be damaging. So far religion is succeding in preventing Brazil from entering the 21st Century.
There was even a TV special here about the whole church-paedophilia incident and guess what? "Blame the priests who did it, but do not blame the church or Catholicism! Faith is good, yadda, yadda" was the tone at the end. Sickening.
OMFG, this bishop is really full of shit. I tried googling articles in Portuguese about him and what do I find? Words of the same bishop: "More catholics died in the Holocaust than jews, and yet it isn't noticed because jews are in charge of the world's publicity." Nice.
This man is nuts. And he disgraces my home town.
NEXT THING YOU KNOW PEOPLE WILL BE MARRYING THEIR CAT - RevBDC
Too late!
When exactly was it that the RCC stopped blaming the Jews for everything and went looking for another scapegoat? ;^)
Oh, wait, reading Remo's comment@50, I guess they haven't stopped!
Hear, hear! And for some amazing bravery as well. Good work.
I want to know about sex and sexual orientation. I wonder if these thoughts and feelings I am having are normal. Who should I talk to? I know. A 73 year old man who has sworn off sex his entier life! I am sure he is an expert on this type of material. Crisis averted!! Thanks for pointing me in the right directions PZ.
SEE! THE HOMOS ARE WINNING!
Abdul Alhazred @ # 43: So give us homos the credit for a cultural climate ...
Now we know who'll next be held up for blame regarding global warming.
Thanks for the visual PZ. There isn't enough frontal lobe bleach in the world to remove that. Thankfully it did displace 2 girls one cup. But only briefly.
These guys are fucking twisted. Why would anybody be a perv in Brazil. The women are SMOKIN' hot.
bq. Unfortunately for his thesis, the only place where there seems to be a broad acceptance of pedophilia is the Catholic church.
EXACTLY what I was thinking when I was reading this. "Society" does not accept what your church is allowing to happen, you nitwit, your damn church is!
I mean, sometimes you just have to say it. Good lord.
32#
What is beyond just criminal is the fact that this paragon of 'katolic dogma is in fact an Archbishop of the largest xian delusional cult to afflict humanity.
With such talent at the top is it no wonder that 'katolic is fast becoming a euphemism for 'fuckwits deluded and in chronic denial'
With a dumbfucks like Cardinal Cormac Murphy declaring atheists are sub-human, it is no wonder the minions are trying to ape the shock tactics, except they alienate not consolidate the faith, and they do not understand that more grandiose claims only damage the delusion they are trying to promote, self destruct never so sweet!
They are fighting for survival of their delusion, and they calculate they are losing, hence the more lurid and desperate breathlessness of their rhetoric.
Fine the more bizarre and out of touch with reality, the more their plight will deepen.
And they cannot do a damn thing about it!
They will implode, it is the destiny of all religions based on sheer bigoted ignorance.
Or at least it should be!
I suspect this is the ultimate outcome of constructing morality in terms of personal sin. Look! They've eaten the milk of the mother with the veal! Next they'll be killing and eating their neighbors! Since you're going to be tortured eternally for onanism/adultery/thinking dirty thoughts about Ms. Teen USA and you're also going to be tortured eternally for raping children,* clearly they're all the same sort of thing and if you're okay with doing something from set A you'll be fine with the child rape. It's the "logical" final step of a purity-based instead of harm-based ethics.
*Unless you tell God you're really very sorry.
#42
It was part sarcasm, part honest feelings.
I mean, I know it would cause far more problems that it would fix, but god fucking dammit if some part of me doesn't really want to round up every bishop and throw them into the nearest volcano/burn them at the stake/hang them/put them in hilarious Rube Goldberg Deathmachines.
The Pope will, of course, be sentenced to death by progressively larger hats.
@ scooterKPFT:
Yeah, because not being sexually attracted to women is something you choose, eh? Or maybe it's only true in Catholicland...
in a short time paedophilia will also have rights
I thought they did!! Don't paedophiles get the right to move to another diocese, and get sheltered by the church?
I would love to see billboards with pictures of these shit-for-brains spokespeople for the Catholic church with their reasons on it like:
WE RAPE CHILDREN BECAUSE SOCIETY MAKES US!!
WE ARE PEDOPHILES BECAUSE OF FEMINISM AND ACTIVISM.
..... and the rest of their stupid, stupid reasons.
Where do they get these ideas?? You would think that with just a tiny bit of education (I know ..... they have RELIGIOUS education .... not the real type..) they would see the non-logic in their statements.
If they don't come clean about it and clean house at least they could just SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!
Makes me wanna hurl.....
steve
Maybe he's just hoping out loud that society will somehow get so accepting of anything and everything that the priests will not be criminals so hey, why not wait until then?
You're thinking of the Brazilian bishopric.
Well, the archbishop chose the right profession - that sort of shit wouldn't be accepted in any other job. What he really wants of course is for the fags and dykes to shut up and allow the catholic church to call them evil cohorts of satan and so on and blame all the world's problems on them - in other words, maintain the catholic status quo.
Does the term "consenting adults" mean anything to these catholic bigots?
Quick, someone call the church police!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QWpAswcY40
And homosexuality has shit all to do with being a predator who preys on children.
mothwentbad:
That's the Anglican church. Anyway, the only punishments they have is cake or death.
I love how they say "a 73-year-old priest with conservative views" as-if there is any other sort of 73 year old Catholic Priest.
Wake me up when a tree hugging, pot smoking, womanizing (in the good way) 73 year old priest with liberal views comes around!
Fuck the motherfucker?
"When sexuality is banalised it is clear that that can have an effect on all cases."
Is he saying that because we accept people who are gay that we have to similarly accept people who use their postions of power to rape children?
Ahhhhhhhhhh, NO!
Remarkable too... how he makes no mention of the "cover-ups" isn't it? So I guess that's ok and not worth mentioning...you know...it's banal.
What a fucktard!
OK, Rev, you've convinced me. Dress up in your finest marriage licensing frock - I want to marry my three cats and my couch now!
OK, Rev, you've convinced me. Dress up in your finest marriage licensing frock - I want to marry my three cats and my couch now!
No... let them talk... let them shove their feet so far into their mouths they choke and collapse. The Church is losing credibility and losing members. The last time it faced a serious challenge like this was the reformation, and while it survived it had a lot less power going out than coming in. Don't tell me the modern world can't do better at getting rid of these parasites than old Nazi Martin Luther. The Roman Creepy Church is going down.
I wonder how many child-raping priests the archbishop moved from one parish to another. If the answer is greater than zero then his archiness should be apologizing rather than try to shift blame.
IF debauchery like this is allowed to continue it will eventually lead to men wearing dresses in public telling people not to use condoms.
AS I recall aren't large amount of the cases coming to light dated back in the 40.50,60's?
I don't recall a huge acceptance to homosexuality back then. But I did miss the 40'50's.
It would seem to me it has only been since homosexuality has been widely excepted that it has been recognized as being wrong.
Seems to me the church is confused. No?
It's beginning to seem like that the Gay Gambit (TM) is the catholic church's official response to all the trouble they're in. I wonder if we're going to see some leaked documents to that effect in the next couple of years.
Gah, every time I hear one of these fucking motherfuckers conflating homosexuality and pedophilia it makes me grind my teeth. It makes me want to scream "Nice slippery slope you've got there, better stay away from it 'cause I'd hate to see you fall down it and break you're fucking neck!" Okay, that might not make much sense, but the visual makes me feel better.
Here's an idea:
A Children need rational adults to care for them.
B Rational adults understand the difference between sex pursued by consenting adults and sex forced on children.
C These catholic fuckheads don't understand the difference between sex pursued by consenting adults and sex forced on children.
Therefore: These catholic fucktards are not rational adults.
Therefore: These catholic fuckwads should never be allowed to care for children.
And voila, the pedophilia problem of the catholic church is solved.
As a burglar, I demand equal rights with non-burglars! Oh wait. . . you mean it's actually immoral to steal from people ?
Hmm... Well.. all-righty then!
So, FRC, want to join with the RCC and share resources. I'm sure the Bishops have a lot in common with Rekers-the-closeted.
@Remo: Grings is not disgracing Porto Alegre. As if this sort of religious douchbagery didnt exist in the US or Britain. Remember, the most outspoken creationists do not hail from Porto Alegre, nor do we have idiots fighing in justice to include ID in our public school curriculum.
Btw, whats the joke with the uncircuncised penis???
It is the excuse of preference and convenience.
Equating homosexuality and paedophilia kills three birds with one stone...
Because apart from deflecting blame onto homosexuals it also exonerates the RCC from blame because gay has infiltrated everywhere and obviously only gay like paedophilia.
It is a desperately ignorant and pathetic ploy, they even issued a raft of so called 'research' backing their claims.
All 'in house' research of course mainly by the apologetic coward types of 'investigators'...but the aims for their effluent is of course aimed at fans of RC delusion!
The point is damage limitation they are fire fighting in their own ranks, this is not aimed at the world at large just unease and audible critique in their minions and sheeple.
They do not give a flying fuck for the rational world, these ridiculous excuses are targeted for their own to placate and smooth ruffled goon and zombie fur!
And so they lie their raggedy arse's off in order to do so, all very xian, and apparently quite acceptable!
Cos this is not the first bishop or archbishop that has spouted such utter imbecilic trash.
In my view the only acceptable remedy to the catholic church's international pedophile conspiracy is a worldwide, independent investigation followed by criminal charges (wherever they may lead) and civil suits to establish a compensation fund for victims paid for by the vatican.
That said, a friend of mine had a very interesting comment I thought worth sharing. He is a management consultant who lives in Rome, a 15 minute walk from the vatican (he is not religious nor anticlerical):
Quick qualification: this excuses nothing and is not a defence to an international paedophile conspiracy. It may, however go some way to explaining various bishops publicly stating that the peadophile priest problem is the fault of: teh gays, the devil, "consenting" children, the media, the New York Times (full of jews don't you know), secularism etc etc. I would have thought no PR machine worth anything would let that PR disaster happen.
My answer is that Cardinals, Archbishops and Bishops including Ratzinger actually knew of the abuse, covered it up and aided and abetted future assaults and rapes of children. Clerics in top management who didn't know or participate should have known and should have done something (wilful ignorance is no defence and neither is the "clean hands defence" )
PS to my post at 86
By "Clean Hands" I did not mean the legal principle but the ethical principle applied to individual action/inaction particularly in organizations
Dirty work clean hands
Q.E.D #86
This is the problem. There will be sexual deviants in any large group of people. Some of them will be pedophiles. The Catholic clergy is an example of such a large group.
If the Catholic hierarchy had a policy that, once a pedophile cleric was identified, removing that man from contact with children and notifying the appropriate legal authorities, then there wouldn't be a scandal. People would recognize the RCC as acting in a reasonable, responsible, moral manner.
Instead the RCC adopted a policy which, whatever its intended consequences were, had the effective consequence of protecting and supporting child rapists. It really doesn't matter what the causes of pedophilia and child rape are. That's a technical question for psychologists and behaviorists to study. It does matter that the Roman Catholic Church's hierarchy believed their dignity and prestige were more important than the welfare of children.
Let's hope the old twat from Brazil meets a fate similar to this guy's:
Pope accepts scandal-plagued bishop's resignation
So - offending bishops resign. gosh, golly. I wonder: do they still get their pension? are they being prosecuted? or is this just a show-resignation?
Eh, I'm late, but for what it's worth...
On topic:
Nothing that comes from the RCC surprises me anymore. I'm optimistic that the Brazilian government will act in this instance the same way they acted in the instance of the little girl who was raped and needed to undergo an abortion: not giving a flying fuck about what these fuckers have to say.
Off topic:
PZ, I think this is maybe the third time you make a reference to waxed crotches in a post related to Brazil. I don't find it offensive and I don't think you have any obligation to know anything about Brazilian culture, but eh...if that's *all* you know about Brazil, don't you think it's getting old?
(And I have no idea how this became known as a "Brazilian wax", since I'm pretty sure it's a much more widespread fad in the US than in Brazil, where it's not really that common...)
@Remo #49
Where exactly in Brazil do you live? Rio de Janeiro was included among the most gay-friendly cities in the world. There's a law now prohibiting discrimination against same-sex couples in public places, commercial establishments, etc, which may seem weird to Europeans, for instance, but means *progress* here. I'm guessing you're part of that group of Brazilians whom Nelson Rodrigues referred to as having a "mongrel complex" - you know, the ones who jump at the opportunity to rant about how "backward" we are. You're probably forgetting we don't have religious fundamentalists pushing for creationism to be included in school curricula. That's just one example.
@73
"Wake me up when a tree hugging, pot smoking, womanizing (in the good way) 73 year old priest with liberal views comes around!"
Fr. Andrew Greeley, maybe?
That is true, Tis, but I suspect that the % is higher among Catholic priests because I believe a largish proportion of them are men with Issues to start with. Agreeing to never have sex is not something that most men are willing to do, especially not when they are young. Now, I am not saying that there aren't young men out there who are so swamped in religion that they really do decide to make this sacrifice to God and spend their lives working hard to help other people. I know there are. But I suspect that many young men become priests for all the wrong reasons whether they already know they are sexual deviants or not.
As for that person in Brazil who said "society today is paedophile" all I can say is, Buster, you are hanging out in the wrong crowd. It reminds me of a Simon and Simon episode lo these many years ago when a young prostitute asked "Why do men like to hurt women" and Rick said, "Normal men don't." Normal men don't like raping children you evil old creep.
#92, I rather like Andrew Greeley, though he is old fashioned and does tend to put women on some magical power pedestal. But he is a leftist Obama supporter.
Don't like the font on his website though. Really. http://agreeley.com/
I'm guessing that Grings isn't quite aware that pedophilia as a crime against children, rather than being seen as a sin equally committed by an adult and a child, is due to that secularization, that banalization that he decries?
That in the high era of the RCC, buggering an eight year old was considered no different from sleeping around on your wife, or screwing a bunk-mate in the military?
I guess he'd like to go back to those days, where everything was equally bad, so you could get away with anything as long as you payed lip service to the dogma.
Evil shits.
Gus Snarp: Ah, the old slippery slope fallacy. As if society is unable to tell the difference between sex between consenting adults and the raping of children.
That's the problem. Traditionalist RCC doesn't see a difference between rape & consentual sex. The sin is the sex, not the force. That's the traditional "Biblical" position -- just as in the Old Testament, where the woman was stoned if she was raped in the city (where her cries ostensibly should have stopped it).
The sin is in the pleasure. All these old perverts comments are explained by understanding that.
Please crash this poll:
"Would you watch a comedy series about Jesus Christ?
Yes, it might be interesting
No, it sounds offensive
Maybe, it depends on how it's done"
at http://www.news24.com/
Currently on:
Yes, it might be interesting 17 %
No, it sounds offensive 69 %
Maybe, it depends on how it's done 14 %
thnx