It happens now and then that some gibbering loon makes a persistent appearance somewhere on the blog, and the ensuing wrangle goes on and on and on. We've had just such an occurrence on this thread, which is bloating up to almost 700 comments now. Graeme Bird is an Australian wanna-be politician of the crank variety, a global warming denialist,
anti-evolutionist and fan of ID,
truther, and like your typical obsessive kook, he just can't let it go, even though he's getting laughed at rather cruelly (and deservedly).
Anyway, the thread is getting too long and with no end in sight…so I've closed it.
It's like taking a dead bird carcass away from a cat, though, so this new thread is for anyone who wants to continue mauling the crackpot, or for Bird himself, who will probably continue to caper for our amusement.
By the way, this is how Bird refers to his blog (decor courtesy of Kagato):
My Blog Is a Fucking Magnificent Blog
A Broadway Musical by Graeme Bird
"Choc-full of ideas and speculations!"
- Graeme Bird, Author
He's not just crazy, he's flamboyantly crazy.
If I leave here tomo-orrow
Will you still remember me?
'Cause I must be travellin' on now
Too many places I've got to see.
If I stay-ay-ay here with you, now
Things just wouldn't be the same.
'Cause I'm as free-hee-hee as a Bird. now
And this Bird you can-not change!
Wo-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh
http://outsidemybrain.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/white_lighter_with_fl…
As pointed out on the earlier thread he's WAAAAY out there:
http://graemebird.wordpress.com/2009/11/11/the-pyramids-and-the-post-qu…
Kagato, I nearly died laughing at your post.
*Cue Twilight Zone theme music*
You can't argue with him, people. You've all been educated stupid.
Wow. That's Ted Holdenesque.
For those unfamiliar with the Holden oeuvre, he's the magnificent bastard from talk.origins who claimed that the Neandertals flew on the backs of teratorns to Mars after the Velikovskian catastrophe swung the planets into close proximity, where they built the Face on Mars.
Even the lunatics were loonier in the Good Old Days, I tell you.
The Grateful Dead's version of Twilight Zone Theme music
Let it never be said that Australia has not been home to some truly, spectacularly, wackaloon nutbags.
LOL! I mostly lurk, but I was reading the 'Dangerous Nuts' thread last night & early this morning. Graeme Bird is amazing! I especially love his version of the scientific method, which requires competing hypotheses--3 is good, but 6 is best.
I dearly hope Mr.Bird continues to post.
Graeme Bird:
Do you have any idea what a muon is?
Er, what? You don't believe in subatomic particles? How, then, did all those scientists and engineers build the nuclear weapons that kept the godless communist hordes from your doorstep?
I did precisely that last night, you lying imbecile. The Stanford Linear Accelerator is approximately two miles long. If it had been built ignoring relativity, it would have been shorter by a factor of thousands. Is two miles macro enough for you, shitbrain?
But hey, "BIG THING example" sounds like a good post-Zappa song title. Thanks.
Man, fuck the Grateful Dead.*
* irrational hatred of said band based entirely, and unreasonably, on SpokesGay's early 90s road trip to see them in concert with First Love of My Life Boyfriend Unit
Oh, he's talked about Mars too:
The guy clearly insane.
Graeme Bird:
You know, I can actually imagine you as a swimming coach. In my mind's eye I see you leaning over a fishpond, waving your arms and screaming at the fish, "You're swimming all wrong!!!!"
a_ray_in_dilbert_space:
The muons are lying.
You like me! you truly like me!
*wipes away tears*
Hang on - the song Sven quoted in #1 is Free Bird?
It's a song I thought I'd only ever heard of, mostly because of Bill Hicks, but never heard; turns out I have heard it - in The Simpsons when Otto plays it, and from a hack bunch who, now I've done some research combined (for some reason) the lyrics of that some from Baby I love your way by Peter Frampton - and made me think it was all one song rather than two.
9 is too many. Can't do science with 8 hypotheses.
Grr, typo.
Oh well, it's no less understandable than Bird.
I've tussled with Bird before. In addition to everything else, he denies General Relativity, has serious problems with the Big Bang theory, and pines for the "skeptical movement" of his day, which was much better than the current one. He's also capable of writing more drivel more quickly than almost any troll I can remember, and he's one of the very few reasons I've ever had to close comments on my blog. Some highlights:
"The burden of proof in nearly every case is a special request for a handicap." He calls the concept of burden of proof "anti-logic."
"The global warming racket. In the middle of an ice age, without empirical evidence."
Phil Plait is an "anti-science nutball."
"Global warming science is quite literally flat earth science and far inferior to anything Ptolemy had on the go."
And so much more. From here and here. He's like the love child of Dennis Markuze and Gene Ray.
This is thin ice, my friend
you asked for it, dude:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkTQUtx818w
Wire, briar, limber lock
Three geese in a flock
One flew East
One flew West
And one flew over the cuckoo's nest.
Speaking of squandering fucktons of money, I think that President Obama can legitimately claim, "It was like that when I found it!"
Here's an informative page, trying to show us what the $87 billion dollars asked for by Bush and the $315 billion dollars spent on Iraq and Afghanistan by mid-2006 would look like if stacked up: $87 billion.
And here's a link to the story of the U.S. under G. W. Bush sending U.S. $12 billion in shrink-wrapped $100 bills to Iraqi officials and the notorious contractors. That's 362 metric tons or about 400 U.S. tons. The U.S. doesn't know where it went or who got it. That was in 2003:
Barack Obama is not responsible for the 8 years of mismanagement and overspending overseen by Bush, and the bailout started by Bush after letting the dogs of Wall Street run mad was probably the only way to prevent a worldwide Great Depression. If anyone has bankrupted the U.S., it was the Republicans and their profiteering hangers-on.
How 'bout you?
I reckon we should vote Graeme in... Question Time might actually be interesting then. Imagine Bird vs Fielding vs Joyce!
Portrait:
http://www.ldp.org.au/Candidates.html#Graeme_Bird
Re 17:
5 is right out.
Free Bird was the last thing played at our 7th- and 8th-grade dances. You hoped against hope that someone cute and not excessively sweaty asked you to dance* for that one. It's a very long song.
*(and I use the term loosely - stuck together shifting your weight from side to side, sloooooowly revolving)
@Sven:
You know, if we could figure out a way to convert insanity into energy, we could plug birdbrain in and solve the energy crisis overnight.
Yeah, well, that's only because they're sluts, y'know. They'll go with anybody!
Hey dingbat:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/occidental.asp
Fail!
lol, I found this blog:
Graeme Bird, no matter how hard you try, you will only achieve 0.9 timecubes. You have to let it come naturally. Giggity.
Oh jesus crap, the Liberal Dems...
Oh. My.
It's like crank magnetism run amok... Crank magnetism as that eleventy kajillion Gigawatt electromagnet Wile E. Coyote switched on in Compressed Hare, eventually bringing down the Eiffel Tower and a Mercury rocket...
It poses a half-serious question: which comes first--does complete, gibbering lunacy of this order start with a brain not so much functioning, or is it rather that crank magnetism has an exponential, cancerous quality, past a certain point, rotting out whatever in the mind might once have worked?
(/More importantly: who's doing the libretto for the forthcoming musical of the Gene Ray/Markuze love story? I want right of first refusal.)
I wonder if the Lib Dems know how wacky he really is... perhaps it's time to tell them. (info@ldp.org.au)
You Americans might think you have the market cornered on nutbars, but Australian nutbars lack all sense of self-awareness. We do it with a total lack of style, so there!
john.s.wilkins:
Too true. We can't compete on quantity, but we sure do our best to make up for it with quality.
PZ once you have a Bird flu infection you will find it very hard to get rid of. He will take having his own thread as a sign of approval, not quarantine.
David Horton
Never let it be said that Australia can't compete on the world Crazy Stage.
And the Bird isn't going to comprehend a damn thing anybody says to him. The more we argue, the more persecuted he will feeel, and the more sure he will be that he is right. He is off on the other side of some catastrophe curve, and he ain't comin' back to reality.
And speaking of relativity denialism: Astronomers confirm Einstein's general theory of relativity:
Man, fuck the Grateful Dead.
Josh OSG, that's a funny story. I was one of those dirty hippies. I think I saw every show at Buckeye Lake during the 90's.
BTW, just like any other foodstuff, you need to know where to look to find a kind veggie burrito. (Skip to 2:15 and ignore the video, which is apparently a deadneck family vacation but it's the only source I could find for the song.)
Bah. Graeme Bird ate my blockquote tags.
"Birdbrain," Buffalo Tom
I'm out, I'm out in bushes
Playing, playing with plastics
Birdbrain, they say I'm a birdbrain
If I am, then can I just fly away
Shoe straps and eyelashes washing my brain
Twenty-five years are just washed down the drain
They are, they are a drunken bird
Flying, into the windows
Birdbrain, they say I'm a birdbrain
If I am, then can I just fly away
Shoe straps and eyelashes washing my brain
Twenty-five years are just washed down the drain
Shoe straps and eyelashes washing my brain
Twenty-five years are just washed down the drain
If I am, then can I just fly away
"Bird actually thinks the man trashed me in a physics argument? He thinks that a man with no training in physics trashed me?"
Yes I do. You are a blockhead mate. Anyone could trash you in a physics argument.
Big Bird from the other thread:
Reminds me of my favorite Psalm, Psalm 23.14159
Yeah though I walk through the valley of the shadow of the lone paradigm, thou art with me, thy flaming goat and thy timecube they comfort me
Thou preparest a table before me in the relativistic space-time of mine enemies.
Thou anointest me with Fosters lager and mescaline.
My earth expandeth...
PZ. The fact is you've blown it mate. You've made a fool of yourself. It was a bad sign when you confessed you were a CO2-bedwetter.
You are a biologist. You should have known better, than to be a bedwetter.
So you are a fake. And you are failed analyst.
From here on in you shall be known as PZ.
CO2-bedwetter.
You are just a dummy mate. You were faking it. And you weren't good enough to come to Australia.
Oh, joy! He showed up! Let's all RIDE THE LYING TIGER AND GRAB ITS EARS!
Look at this!!!!
Not only is PZ a non-scientist, a failed analyst and a CO2-bedwetter.
He's a liar:
"anti-vaxer,"
You are a liar PZ.
Yes you are.
Yes you are.
I dunno, maybe I just know too many people in therapy but that description of his blog just seems like one of those super-embarassing affirmations.
It makes my heart weep.
I just want to go up to him and say, yes, you are a unique person who is worthy of love.
I mean, completely misinformed and deeply divorced from reality.
But worthy of love just the same.
It's okay, Graeme. It's okay. The demons of your past can't hurt you any more.
Woo, it's on again.
Naww this man makes me sad to be Australian :(
"anti-evolutionist"
Look at that?
PZ is a liar.
Not only is he a bedwetter and a fucking dummy. He's a committed liar.
Lets have that evidence for the big bang PZ you fucking moron.
You are just a dummy Pz/
You will never be a scientist PZ. You will always only be a parasitical science worker. Because you have no chance of debating me ever.
We can all relieve some of our stress by setting Bird's chirps to song. I look forward to your contributions, as the use of my singing voice is banned in Canada and at least 7 states
You are a liar Pz. Yes you are. And a CO2 Bedwetter. Yes thats right.
And a goose-stepping sheeple big-bang believer.
Thats right PZ. You are a fake. You never had what it took to be a scientist.
You couldn't debate me on anything. So you chose to lie.
Like the CO2 bedwetter that you are.
"Goose-stepping Sheeple big-bang believer" has got to be a song title.
You were always a fake PZ. You never had it together to apply the scientific method. Yeah you can TALK ABOUT IT you big fat fake.
But its all talk.
Because you have been found out as a CO2-bedwetter,and big bang believer.
You be far more comfortable dressing up in sheila's clothing then applying the scientific method.
Dear birdbrain:
>You are a blockhead mate. Anyone could trash you in a physics argument.
My condolences, Mr Bird. How does it feel to be no one?
Seriously? I'm impressed. You must be some kind of psychic, given that I have not yet, in my presence, actually bothered with discussing physics with you.
Yes. I teach physics at a high school specialising in maths and science, because I love the subject, and I still am not going to argue physics with you.
The reason is not that I am afraid of you.
The reason is that I can't stop laughing.
Why am I laughing? Because your only response to evidence is to say "that is not evidence" and then carry on with your stupidity.
I want to caption you. I want to tag you with "Dunning-Kruger exhibit 1.00" and lead generations of students to look at you, except that I'm afraid that
(a) My students would injure themselves laughing at you.
(b) Insanity is catching.
(c) I don't want to scare the punters.
No, shh, Mr Bird. It's ok.
I don't expect you to talk.
Guess what I do expect?
Your wingnut seems to be turning into a broken record. Entertainment value is declining. G'night, all!
"You be far more comfortable dressing up in sheila's clothing then applying the scientific method."
Woo, 10 points for femininity-as-insult, Bird.
"We can all relieve some of our stress by setting Bird's chirps to song."
Yeah Okay. Lets talk this fellow who isn't even a man. He's just a sheila. He couldn't summon the moxie to be man enough to be a scientist.
He's not man.
He's a bumsucking homo.
So lets have a song for this non-scientist.
CHEER UP SLEE-PZ
OH WHAT CAN IT MEAN
FOR A
BIG BANG BELIEVER
AND A
HOME-COMING QUEEN.
You like it?
He's a fucking moron mate. He's a girly-man.
Not an anti-vaxer, Gra Gra? You sure are.
From here, as mentioned in the OP.
You are a profoundly incapable human being, Gra Gra.
What in Aphrodite's pink frilly knickers are you blathering on about Graeme? CO2 bedwetter? Are you in primary school or are you a fully grown man capable of communicating your thoughts, because I know which category I would place you in.
Grow up, you've got to be kidding if this is how you handle your online image as a candidate for politics. It's truly cringe-worthy watching you prance about making such a fuss. Have some decorum.
You know what's fun? Singing Graeme Bird's posts out loud. They're even more hilariously batshit-insane when they're songs.
Yeah they have a sort of sparkle to them don't they.
Well, it's nice to see that the HOURS upon HOURS that I spent over at the Dangerous Nuts posts wasn't for naught.
Anyway, I still want to know why he cares so fucking much.
They are very alliterative, sometimes.
(From someone who regularly dresses in shelia's clothes while simultaneously applying the scientific method.)
Can someone please tell me what a CO2 bedwetter is?
PZ, I know you're extremely tolerant of wackaloons throwing horseshit at you. This one's being a homophobic fuckwit though.
There are few things that piss me off more than the use of decidedly feminine ideas being used as insults.
I take it the LDP have cut you loose from this year's election?
Only PYGMIES AND DWARVES can RIDE THE LYING TIGER when there are GOATS ON FIRE!
I gotta say Graeme, your wall-to-wall crazy might be funny to watch, but your anti-women and anti-gay rhetoric will get you banned regardless of your entertainment value.
GB! Why do you care about US politics so much? Please just answer this one itty bitty question for me! It doesn't even require you to provide any sort of evidence*, either!
*Not that you could, 'cos you're too much of a total dumbshit.
Heh. These Bird droppings are most amusing.
Yesterday:
Today:
Well, at least the Bird honours African-Americans by attempting to ape ebonics. Not a great effort, but kudos for trying.
Oh yeah, this fantasy about PZ doing science dressed in women's clothing seems a little too allusive; hey man, if you like to fantasise about cross-dressing, at least be open about it — it's not like it's gonna sully our opinion of you! ;)
desertfroglet, :)
The Bird is providing extremely juicy material; he's truly a boon to the LDP. Aids their credibility no end, he does!
<giggle<
Sorry. I don't feed the trolls.
When I read "memorial thread" my hope was that the loon had been plonked.
*takes opportunity to wave at Phasic*
Let's add homophobia to the list.
I have always wondered at this. It's considered okay for a female to act like a male (i.e. tomboy) but it's considered a grave insult for a male to act like a female?
He's most definitely descended in to full on temper-tantrum mode. Or he was just a troll to begin with.
So lets sing along. Because he's not even a man. He never could summon the moxie to live up to his own alleged beliefs and apply the scientific method. So instead the great big fat hairy pussy projected his own unscience onto non-atheists.
He's not a man. He's a bumsucking homo. He's here in Australia telling us about the importance of getting laid. He's a fake I tell you.
CHEER UP SLEE-PZ
OH WHAT CAN IT MEAN
FOR A
BIG BANG BELIEVER
AND A
HOME-COMING QUEEN
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQNqk54HPdE&feature=fvw
just stop now
I know Mr Bird very well! Indeed he frequents my own blog and as the sender of some very, very nasty messages.
I came across him on a climate change denier blog (the almost, but not quite, wacky Jo Nova) and he decided I'd be a target of his invective for a while.
Here's my first hand experience with Bird:
http://watchingthedeniers.wordpress.com/2010/03/17/a-quick-mesage-to-bi…
PZ, I'm sure you will get some nice messages shortly from GB. Enjoy!
Wow - I haven't seen anyone deliberately trying to get banned with this much vigour in ages ...
So that's it! You just need to ease some tension. If you want, I will chip in whatever I can for the prostitute of your choice.
And you still haven't answered my one itty bitty little question: what do you stand to gain by harping on and on about American politics?
The repetition. It's like he's a David Mabus without the death threats.
Take your meds, Graeme. This is not an insult. Its clear that you are not well and I'm sure that somewhere, someone cares about you and doesn't want you to hurt yourself or others.
Calm down, take your meds and back away from the computer.
Oh look - there he is, bombarding your site with his usual witty comebacks.
Now, let's all back away slowly maintaining eye contact and let Mr. Bird continue to rage against reality.
Could I, on behalf of 21,999,999 Australians, please apologise for Mr Bird. We don't know where he came from, or what we did to deserve him (well, we gave the world Rupert Murdoch, I suppose, so we are due some kind of punishment, but this seems way out of proportion), but we are sorry that he has stopped merely infesting Australian blogs (I have had my share of Mr BIrd), and has turned to the hallowed halls of Pharyngula.
David Horton
I should just point out that Bird has also called for Obama to be shot:
"If you can get a clean shot at the fellow without hitting any third parties it might be better to take it. Since after all he has to be suspected as a usurper.
"You ought to try and avoid calling Barry Soetoro “the President.” His eligibility has been questioned these past 18 months and in all that time not a great deal has emerged to suggest he’s eligible. Except for a couple of statements by a single Hawaiian who while perhaps in a position to know, not really someone who might be considered a constitutional expert."
Comment March 20, 8.26am
http://graemebird.wordpress.com/2010/03/19/penny-wong-is-an-incurable-b…
@justagreenie
Two words...Ken Ham.
Although as a kiwi, I can't talk to much about exporting nutters.
@boygenius, #43:
My personal Waterloo with Boyfriend Unit (TM) and the Grateful Dead was, in fact, at Buckeye Lake. So it was you. You sold me that crap burrito, and that "acid". Mmph.
SpokesGay casts a jaundiced eye on you, and never lets you out of his sight again.
PZ is a faggot. His fingers are typing checks that his brain cannot cash. He comes to my city and he talks up an epistemological storm but its all bullshit because he won't and cannot and is too gutless to apply it.
He's a big bang believer.
He's a CO2-bedwetter.
And he even got taken in by the Obama Health putsch. The stupidest and most wicked reform ever. And PZ too much of a fuckwit to see through it.
He's a blockhead. Follow a stupid kid home and you'll find a stupid lady. Follow and even more stupid kid home and there will be PZ's momma.
Yes PZ was indeed lying about me being an anti-vaxer. And did indeed lie about me being an anti-evolutionist.
Because he's not smart. He's a dummy. He's not a scientist and he's never going to a scientist. He's a science worker. And thats as far as it gets for this big hairy pussy.
Jesus fucking christ! I got to the last thread too late to comment, but wow, this may be my favorite troll yet. I can't help but read his posts in the voice of a young boy screeching and screaming at me.
Also, dude, the big bang is one of the greatest successes of the scientific method. I can't stand history deniers.
So what are his religious views? He apparently isn't a YEC, but is he still a fundie christian?
Your mother sucks Jelly Babies in hell.
"Also, dude, the big bang is one of the greatest successes of the scientific method. "
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You are such a fuckwit mate. And you representative of that stupid ignorant cunt PZ-Myers.
Shit you are dumb Hayley. At least PZ can fake up a storm of pretense in his interest for the scientific method.
Those were your own words I quoted, knob-head.
Really, how did you get 181 people to vote for you?
Am I the only one to whom it seems that the Bird-droppings appear to be orbiting a strange attractor in a chaotic trajectory?
I await the next bifurcation.
Please, PZ, get rid of this one. This amount of misogyny and homophobia shouldn`t be tolerated.
"Those were your own words I quoted"
Yes thats true. And PZ was STILL LYING about me being an anti-vaxer.
You see you are so fucking thick fella. You are just so fucking dumb. PZ was lying. Simple as that.
So birdbrain is a fan of brazilians, isn't that sweet?
Anyway, it's been real ... errr ... intresting, but the shrill-o-meter just peaked out at hyper-insane.
I think I hear the dungeon master calling your name now ...
@desertfroglet
If it's any consolation, for every person that voted for Graeme, twenty thought it was better to not vote for anyone.
Grow up Rachel. And if you cannot grow up, get yourself a brain transplant, and a slut tumor removal.
Wow, this level of misogyny and homophobia hasn't been around in a while. And the style. . . does anyone still remember the time when mabus gave us each individual threats?
Yep, I`m a big ol` slut (not that there`s any evidence for it, but I must be because I disagree with the bird) and TOTALLY immature and stupid for not tolerating homophobia, misogyny and stupidity.
LOL!
Hey, Graeme, I haven't had someone insult me lately. Give me soomething original.
Listen Coolie. I'm not going to perform like some elephant on a tight-rope.
Lets all just form the consensus that PZ is a light-weight and a failed analyst. And once the consensus is formed, well of course in stupid-town that means the burden of proof is on those who would deny the citation.
Thats PZ's own fucked-up epistemology right there.
[waits for insult based on 'soomething']
There's good and bad news here for Australians:
The good:
Democracy is healthy - anyone can stand for election and freedom of speech clearly exists.
Democracy is healthy - this whackjob had his arse handed to him by the Australian electorate.
The bad:
The Australian mental health system clearly has some grave shortcomings.
"Yep, I`m a big ol` slut"
No I didn't mean it. Take it easy. I'm only kidding.
Wipe your eyes. Use that hankee. Fly off on that broom of yours. But don't slip you here. Because you'll swallow the damn thing and fall right out of the sky.
Look Rachel I can talk to you and you can talk to me. But you are hanging around with a very stupid crowd. If you pile on when I'm being swarmed I'm just as likely to lash out. So don't talk ABOUT me in front of me. And don't pile on with these dummies. Because no one of them could ever beat me in a debate ever.
And certainly not this failed analyst PZ.
Oh, racial slurs now . . . That's just making you look worst now.
Good luck with that. Why don't you set up a poll?
Beat it Chinaman or I'll come around and slit your pet pigs throat.
@ Timaahy :) It is a consolation.
Oh, well, if the LDP fields any candidates later this year, I'm sure this thread will resurface. I could imagine the other minor nutbag parties using it to encourage voters to move away from the LDP. Even batshit insanity has its limits.
This thread might falsify that statement.
"Good luck with that. Why don't you set up a poll?"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You fucking dummie. The Sciencblogs approach to epistemology.
Agreed, dungeon for this clown. Seriously, he's apropos of a clown: not funny, though he tries to be, sad face made up to look happy so it's scary, and generally causing a feeling of sadness after the first bout of hysterical laughter.
Please end the slapstick. Put him back in his clown car.
Yeah, Graeme, Listen.
What I want you to do is come back here in a week or two, when you've had the opportunity to calm down a little and re-read just a little of what you've written.
In fact, you don't even need to come back, (please don't come back) you'll just be alone somewhere; in the shower or having your morning coffee, and you will remember how you chose to play it here today.
You will Remember that you demonstrated your embarrassing mis-education in front of scientifically educated audience of people you were desperate to impress.
You will Remember that after a thread of more than 700 comments you failed to express yourself cogently and only succeeded in making a spectacle and humiliating yourself.
You will Remember that in the end you broke down and chose vitriol and childish outbursts over reason and evidenced argument.
You will Remember that you fell apart to such an extent that you ended up 'singing' homophobic insults instead of dazzling us with (what you sincerely believe is) your stunning intellect.
You will Remember the shame of your failure at Pharyngula.
And it will always sting.
Good grief, can't you tell the difference between pinyin and revised romanization? Now you got violence to add to you list. Hey Mabus in Montreal, looks like you got a new friend! I reckon you two will get along just fine.
Ooh, nice one, Gyeong. :)
Hey, clueless Bird: I'm a spic. Whaddaya make of that?
<Dance, troll-boy, dance to our tune!>
OK, made a horrible mistake by unkillfiling GB. Not clever, not interesting, just a misanthropic homophobe. Killfile was the right decision. I suggest a ban for his just being an insult troll.
Not in anger, not in pity, just cold contempt - and that will evaporate ten seconds after I close this thread.
"onethird-man"
You aint even that brother. Still as fractionally testicular as you claim to be you are yet more of a man then PZ can ever be.
Because PZ claims to be following the scientific method. Whereas in reality he's just a lock-step leftist automaton.
He's not even a man.
Please don't ban Graeme. As long as he's spending time here then there's less time for him to spend it spreading his brand of insanity elsewhere.
@ desertfroglet
I'm going to send the LDP some of his posts. He'll either be kicked out or become their new leader. I'd put money on new leader!
"Cheapest Thinktank. Deepest Philosopher. Most Holistic Prophet."
(Yes, that's his blog's actual tagline.)
Bigot. Sexist. Racist. Homophobe. Batshit Crazy.
The pride of the DLP, everyone!
*clap clap*
Graeme: historical reference fail. Another party balloon popped, and this one while trying to make a doggy.
Right. Kill-filing this fool.
He was entertaining, but now he's opened the door of his clown car of bigotry and the occupants are all spilling out: his hatred of gay men, his hatred of women, his hatred of anyone other than members of his ingroup, in fact, his hatred of everyone that isn't him.
Are you sure you've got a job, Gra Gra?
I think he hates himself, too.
And how can PZ be both "lightweight" and "fat"?
Oh well, I guess I'll wait till morning to see if the misogynic-homophobic-racists-right-wing-nutter can tell differences between a chink and a gook (and while it’s completely moronic to think you can tell someone’s racial origin from their pseudonym), and to see what racial slur he comes up for John Morales up there.
Dude, like you'd totally win the internet tough guy award. Like, totally!
hey, maybe birdy will be able to give Rev.BDC that FINISHED Mabus promised him and never delivered.
D'oh. LDP.
Excuse my keyboard dyslexia, Democratic Labor Parties and digital projectors...
"Cheapest Thinktank. Deepest Philosopher. Most Holistic Prophet."
Thats right. And this is why you will always only swarm your superiors. You will get together as a church. You will swarm. But you won't debate.
Because you know your limitations.
You swarmed me right from the start. Because thats all you can do.
You are real blockheads.
desertfroglet,
Heh. His occupation was listed as "shift-worker".
Probably a typo...
[blockquote]Shit you are dumb Hayley. At least PZ can fake up a storm of pretense in his interest for the scientific method. [/blockquote]
First of all: you did NOT just spell my name wrong. I hate that.
I'm not sure what you mean by "faking up a storm of pretense". Should I have dropped everything and written you a nice long summary of the evidence that led to the big bang theory?
Also, saddest clown.
Time for bed. I'm getting bbcode and html confused again.
Oh me oh my. Attempting to play the victim.
Forgive me for not being surprised.
If you storm a fortress single-handed, would you expect only one man to face you on even footing?
No. Your broken, mutilated corpse, after being riddled full of arrows would be dumped unceremoniously in a ditch.
I think this thread should be discontinued, I do not see the point in going on, and the loon should be plonked and ignored.
Graeme Bird, teach me oh wise one.
No no. You guys are just morons. You have come out in support of a piece of legislation designed to kill old people, and therefor enslave the US.
Thats just a fact. You are just too stupid to understand this matter. Whereas I would have had a two-tier system that protects the old guys and would lead to falling prices more generally, you guys are supporting the opposite system. One where the old people will be systematically starved of medical services.
True story.
Like all the science blogs groupies you are just unbelievably moronic.
[meta]
Haley, ScienceBlogs uses HTML, not BBCode for markup.
*Sigh* and with the balloon pop, now he tries to do a little dance, but alas: his horn is broken, so it's a lot of shuffling and a wheezing 'hrrrrnnkksssssss' which only frightens the kiddies.
I know, don't feed the troll and all...
Following this logic, what's going to happen with the ageing population? When there's too many old people who is going to take care of them? Why are you advocating policies to enslave young people?!?
Didn't know they cut Medicaid out just like that. Fascinating.
This reminds me of a certain comic!
Please don't ban Graeme. As long as he's spending time here then there's less time for him to spend it spreading his brand of insanity elsewhere.
You know, I think you might be right.
Because the readers of pharyngula are innoculated against this kind of stuff from repeated exposure, it is hard to imagine that some impressionable minds can find this level of intensity, output and commitment to unapologetic lunacy compelling; yet they most assuredly do.
In a sense, you chaps are performing a kind of global public service; by keeping the words of the bird in the Pharyngalian cage, you are protecting impressionable minds from his ravings; even those impressionable minds that do stumble across what he has voided here, at least see them in a context where they are soundly mocked, rebutted and flushed.
You allow yourselves to be scourged by his madness, crowned with the thorns of his invective and crucified on the cross of his unprecedented idiocy to protect the wider community; and for the most part, the wider community doesn't even know.
I salute you. I salute you all.
PZ, can we keep him? Please? For the greater good? Maybe we should try collecting them ALL. Hey, there might be a business model here!
Look you dummy. Did you not notice, or did you not care, that this alleged health-care bill systematically starves old people of medical services.
This is such a fucking low-IQ blog that you cannot even get that right.
I'd ask you to quote the line of the healthcare bill designed ti kill old people, but since you don't believe you need evidence back up your insane claims, I'd obviously be wasting my time.
Rorschach, the point is that the Bird is a volunteer chew-toy, this thread swells PZ's coffers, and anyone not interested can just ignore it anyway.
Plonking will doubtless come in due course, when we've extracted as much fun as possible from the capering clown (or perhaps if it infests real threads).
Hell, why not add "Wisest Human"?
You and Gene Ray could duke it out for the title.
oh noez!!!!!! DEATH PANELS!!!!!!
is there any conspiracy theory that nut doesn't believe?
You just cannot get anything right. Doesn't matter if its this legislation, global warming, you name it. You are going to fuck it up every time.
I can just hear the calliope music with every comment, slowly grinding and off-key... a tiny malnourished dog capering after him as best it can in a tiny clown hat as well...
is there any conspiracy theory that nut doesn't believe?
Hold on, let's not prejudge Graeme. If he says he's a wise man, much smarter than our PZ, maybe we should listen to Graeme and reap the windfall of his wisdom.
I'm all ears Graeme.
@145
If troll baiting ever becomes a paying job, I'm totally on board.
Given the fact that "old people" in the US has healthcare already, just how exactly is the legislation designed to kill them? Moron.
Thats just a fact.
you keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think.
You are just too stupid to understand this matter.
Really? So, enlighten us, o'deluded one
You mean a two-tier system like the medicaid/medicare vs insurance-based system they have in the US?
True story.
What story would that be?
Yes, you are the one denying science (and basic economics for that matter), and we are the moronic ones.
Ask him about his views on plate tectonics:
http://graemebird.wordpress.com/2009/02/23/expansion-by-way-of-stretch-…
Could he be hoping for a ban/blocking, in order, in the strange conspiracy theory world he inhabits, to claim it as a badge of honour?
But I suggest blocking him anyway. Wait till PZ gets up and finds that this creature has been vandalising the blog and spraying nasty graffiti everywhere.
In my last comment "Thats just a fact." should have been inside blockquotes
Are there any psychiatrists out there willing to risk a diagnosis?
I give two diagnoses: revolutionary genius or ignoramus suffering from delusions of grandeur and fragile ego: a narcissistic dropkick.
That was the exclusive or, not inclusive.
You should run for parliament next election. Australian politics needs you!
Which is why the guy should be plonked, ignored, and not played with.
I think that may be how he became this way.
Are there any psychiatrists out there willing to risk a diagnosis?
I'm not a pychiatrist but...
-Narcissistic compulsive disorder?
-Repressed homosexuality?
-Late bedwetting?
-Drug-induced schizophrenia?
-Abused by a science teacher?
-Dunning-Kruger overload?
-Idiopathic stupidity syndrome?
-Or just well-deserved feelings of inadequacy, depression and self-loathing?
-All of the above.
Perhaps a real specialist could help out.
Or, of course, Graeme could tell us what us his shrinks have actually said.
Aloosh, that's a zinger!
Oh, my. Ladies and gentlemen, I submit to you that we have a Tralfamadorian among us.
That's being really unfair to the Tralfamadorians.
Oh, my. Ladies and gentlemen, I submit to you that we have a Tralfamadorian among us?
The Tralfamadorians wouldn't give him the time of day.
I would add my voice to those seeking a ban for Bird, it was kinda funny initially but it has become obvious that he has serious mental issues.
So it goes.
Dude. There are no chinamen on this thread.
Well, there's me, but I'm not actually from China, you dumb shit convict.
What? You're not a convict? Then I'm not a Chinaman.
Also, I don't have a pig and if you come anywhere near me with a knife I will leave you with no functioning limbs.
OK, I took a several-month mental health sabbatical, and came back to find this true gem of insanity. I'm not complaining—I love this shit!
He didn't literally say that—I hallucinated that...right?
If you are the Bird that ran (spectacularly unsuccessfully) for office in the 2007 election then you are doubtless aware of the political and moral culture of Australia.
Your kooky economic and political musings might be amusing, your bizarre ideas about science may be bemusing, your propensity for advancing edgy conspiracy theories may be bewildering, and your complete lack of logic and disregard for evidence may be annoying,
BUT, just to remind you:
= Racist actions and speech are not tolerated in Australia
= Homophobic actions and speech are not tolerated in Australia
= Misogynistic actions and speech are not tolerated in Australia
You do not meet the minimum norms and requirements of a member of our society, so now kindly fuck off.
Just wanted to add as a New South Welshman (from whence I assume Bird Droppings is posting from time-zone-wise): It is now almost 9:00pm. No doubt he will pass out from over consumption of beer soon.
Oh - and apologies for this misogynistic, homophobic bastard. I will be checking with the LDP in the morning to see if they are still running him, and if so if they endorse his lunacy.
Anthony K. asks about what sort of mental illness our good buddy Graeme might be suffering from. We need to keep in mind the limited interaction we've had via only one medium. We should also keep in mind that most of us aren't psychologists. That said, based on my past experience with loons who claimed to overturn Einstein, I'd guess that Graeme is bipolar, and based on his beer comment, he may be self-medicating.
I base this in part on his paranoia, his inability to consistently attend to spelling, punctuation or even including verbs in his sentence, on the fact that he undertook two marathon sessions in which he managed to deflect all attempts at logic and evidence and on the increasingly strident and defensive tone in his posts.
Graeme's a particularly bad case. He's managed to utterly shut himself off from logical argument and evidence. Also interesting that he seems to really have it in for scientists--maybe indicates resentment at a past academic failure.
Again, I hasten to add that this is not a psychological diagnosis. I am not a psychologist. It is particularly important for Graeme to realize this given his apparent tendency to self-medicate. I strongly urge Graeme to get psychological help. He is walling himself off from reality to an alarming extent. I would also urge banning him to the dungeon because 1)a person who can't argue using evidence and logic is boring; 2)the attention is merely fueling his narcissism.
I just spent five minutes on Bird's blog. I think I need a shower after reading his stuff. It's the most insane, hateful ravings I've seen. And have special fondness for reading the cranks. Normally they're amusing, but his stuff is just noxious.
Bird is like uber-crank. No yr-crank. Meta-crank? Is there a level of crank that transcends all other levels of crank?
@ 162 The Australian parliment has enough fuck wits at the moment so i think he might have a tough run should he choose to nominate himself, there is just some much stupid to choose from.
@ Graham: Go away. I would think that you would show more respect for Mr. Myers as you are a guest on his blog. Our country is a very tolerant place you ofcourse are a case in point, your allowed to have your ignorant veiws and we wont drag you into the outback and drop you in a hole, but when you say someone isn't welcome here, well with that I take issue, that is an opinion best kept to yourself. I would personally pay for PZ to make a return to our fair shores to "Debate" you just to watch you wither like the whiny little bitch that you are.
@watchingthedeniers, I suggest Omnicrank.
Whoa, he's certainly starfarting in fits and spurts, isn't he?
Graeme, seriously - you're not even being coherent at this point. Australia has good health care, yes? Please find a health provider of your choice and just go sit and talk for a bit; I'm sure they can help you out. If you're working shifts and drinking a lot and spending this much time being angry at everyone on the planet who isn't you, your blood pressure must be through the roof. They can probably give you something that will calm you down and make the world seem like a much nicer place. I'm not joking - really, your argumentation is in a different category than "difference of opinion" altogether.
I skipped almost all of this and the previous thread. Loons rave and it is all routine.
These are sad people. The psychotic mentally ill die 20-30 years earlier than the rest of us.
Seen it too many times.
One guy died in his front yard, early 50's. He locked himself out of his house on a cold but not that cold a night. Barely below freezing and he died of hypothermia.
Another woman died of anorexia. Even tube feeding at the end didn't help, too much tissue and organ damage.
It's probably not worth it to keep on with the enabling.
Hey,I really can't take this anymore. Anyone have a recommendation for killfile programs? I know this has been discussed before (just in the last few months, I think) but I can't find it...
@ dyer3009 "Just wanted to add as a New South Welshman (from whence I assume Bird Droppings is posting from time-zone-wise): It is now almost 9:00pm. No doubt he will pass out from over consumption of beer soon..."
OK, found him. Here is the background on Bird.
Most likely still residing in NSW. He was a LDP candidate for Dobell (NSW central coast) during the 2007 election: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_Dobell
Mr Bird got a total of 182 votes out of a total of 86,000 votes cast (both formal and informal).
Here is Bird profiled on the LDP site: http://ldp.org.au/Candidates.html#Graeme_Bird
"Graham has an economics degree from Otago University in New Zealand, although he had read much on economics and business even before showing up. He was particularly attracted by the works of Milton Friedman.
He is a strong advocate of small government and low taxes and regards the LDP as potentially acting as the politicians conscience when it comes to reducing the depredations of government.
"Voting for the LDP is the only ethical thing to do. Even if you disagree with the LDP platform in some area or another, the ethical thing is to cast your vote for the only party in Australia that supports human freedom in all facets of Australian life."
Kiwi that moved to Oz (that means nothing of course). I'd surmise he is on full disability pension. No doubt a history of mental illness.
I suspect much of Bird's anger is fueled by a sense of failure and resentment that the world fails to recognise his genius.
The LDP is libertarian in it's politics. Ironically is supportive of gay rights and gay marriage.
One does have to question how well the LDP vets its candidates. Unless one thinks that Bird really does reflect their views.
Remember: you may not ride the lying tiger unless your pants are taller than this sign.
Ooh, cute. Birdbrain showed up again, and all he has is vitriol. His unevidence loser lunacy is another type of vitriol, aimed and logical and rational folks like ourselves. Birdbrained, quit claiming to use the scientific method. You have no idea what it means, since you fail to use a critical step in the method. Which is to compare your ideas with the evidence. Your ideas fail as the evidence invariably refutes the ideas. That makes your ideas delusions of irrationality.
You know, if we're down to using childish insults, I have a few:
I bet Graeme's so far in the closet his fat government-handout-addicted patsy arse is coming out the back side.
Also, one word and one acronym for his tiny brain to puzzle over:
Photorespiration and COBE.
Hey, Graeme, bet your wang's tiny too.
History generally bears out that a whole lot of right-wingers have some sort of sexual insecurity.
So funny how he tries to talk so big and sound so Australian but fails to bring any substance.
He's sort of a slightly more articulate teabagger.
Oh, this is hilarious. Little subhuman shitbird with an econ degree tries to tell trained scientists what to do.
Not to bash on actual economists, many of whom have their head screwed on tight, but what is it about so many people who have an economics degree that makes them so batshit insane?
@watchingthedeniers # 183. Thank you. From what you posted it would seem he is still affiliated although the site appears not to have been updated since 2007. I will follow up in the morning (OZ time).
Actually there is nothing ironic about that. If one truly had libertarian ideals then that would be a given. I suspect that this dichotomy boils down to the corrupted public ideals of US libertarians who seem to be all about guns, gold and the ebil gubment.
No probs dyer3009 ;)
I suppose in the end we can only feel sorry for the likes of Bird. Mental illness is actually a horrible thing to live with. Without support, the right medication or family support you're left to self medicate and troll the Internet.
If he is B/P he is no doubt isolated. A few other posters have suggested he seeks some assistance: I also suggest he also seek professional help.
@SpriteSuzi: I use Greasemonkey (an add-on for Firefox). I don't remember exactly the link (some kind soul here posted it originally), and I recall I had to go to a few sites to get everything...I think the scripts came from here:
http://wiki.greasespot.net/Main_Page
Good luck. I'm going to killfile Bird, too.
Bron Lett, #69:
I'm not entirely sure, but it sounds
[puts on sunglasses]
sublime.
YEEEAHHHHH.
Technically, American Libertarians claim to be civil libertarians as well, but in practice they always seem to come out on the side of the uber Right
Sooooooooooooo
Did I miss anything this weekend?
@Rev
Nah - business as usual
Bron Lett, #69:
The mother of all Fistulas?
Er, that is to say, they claim to care about civil liberties, but they always VOTE with folks like Republicans, so they pretty much say "Fuck Civil Liberties, I want mah Money"
Thanks a load, Sven @1. I have now had Free Bird stuck in my head for the last 20 minutes. And to make matters worse, the version I have as an earworm is the live version from One more from the Road that goes on for several days. Okay, not really, but in the old vinyl days it was an entire album side.
I have seen the Bird in a fair few posts - he leaves his dropping on the public broadcaster ABC's as well as others - flogging the similar lines
Thanks John for that LDP link http://www.ldp.org.au/Candidates.html#Graeme_Bird - looking at that list and the description of the other candidates there, I don't think Bird is the only loon - little in the way of liberal or democratic in the LDP - libertarianss, 'personal responsibilities', shooters, Rand devotees and so forth.
Rev...
I take most weekends off from the blogosphere (mainly to recharge my mental batteries and to make generally poor attempts at cultivating a social life), but really... I do seem to miss all the fun.
We haven't had a guy this completely fuck-all batshit insane grace the threads since the Kw*k... and honestly, given the tone his most recent posts have taken, and the fact that's useful conversation ended a long time ago and he's down to pretty much repetitive insipidity, I think it's time to put a merciful end to it...
Yeah I was hoping to hear more enlightening crazy-talk from the bird guy.
Wowbagger @#65:
Autotune him!
http://www.barelypolitical.com/autotune/episode/ATN_20100223/auto-tune-…
Good [insert your favorite deity - or no]. I've been watching Robert Byers and IBelievInGod over on Panda's Thumb and I didn't think anyone could be more deranged than those two. I stand corrected. This 'Graeme Bird' gives a whole new meaning to the term wackaloon. I'll say this for him, he's a real comedy routine. Or he was until the homophobic garbage really got started.
I think he may have gone into hibernation for a while, though.
I had noticed the average IQ dropped significantly lately.
Insane rambling must take a lot out of you, I'd imagine.
ssshhhhh.
I think it went away.
I'm not entirely sure, but it sounds
[puts on sunglasses]
sublime.
Win!
So, I honestly can't be bothered wading through the dangerous nuts thread. Did Mr Bird at any point make any actual arguments, or was nothing but this oddly repetitive insult-flinging?
You wish! It's after 1 am where he lives and he's either gone beddy-byes or he's working his shift at the flour mill. As John Morales wrote upthread:
What sort of inane bigot still uses the slur "Chinaman"?
Mr. Bird can only make assertions. Arguments require evidence, and Mr. Bird's idea of evidence is voicing his opinion. He couldn't be more wrong. Like any denialist he also has problems with attitude, so flinging insults is part of the game.
What the fuck are you talking about? The chinaman is not the issue here, Dude. I'm talking about drawing a line in the sand, Dude. Across this line, you DO NOT... Also, Dude, chinaman is not the preferred nomenclature. Asian-American, please.
The self confidence and utter denial of reality of Help Ma Boab along with the racism, homophobia and misogyny of Robert Byers. This definitely not a bird of paradise.
Given all of this, I cannot help but to imagine this myna bird using Dudley Manlove's voice. Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
Holy crap.
As an aussie, could I please reassure everyone here that the nice beaches, wide open spaces, decent beer, and generally very pleasant weather down here do not necessarily cause insanity, contrary to what some may be thinking after reading Graeme Bird's, ummm, contributions.
As for Bird the politician - never 'eard of 'im. The Australian "Liberal Democratic Party" has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the better known "Liberal Democratic" parties elsewhere around the world. In fact, it was only formed in 2001 and used to be registered as the "Liberty and Democracy" party until 2008 when it was allowed by the Australian Electoral Commission (AEC) to change its name.
It is a libertarian/borderline anarchistic party which seems to have a mix of people supporting it who range from just naive, through to batshit crazy (heh, no kidding eh?). They hold zero (count 'em - nil, nix) elected positions anywhere in the Federal or any of the State Parliaments.
And if I were a betting man I'd say that situation is unlikely to change anytime soon.
John Morales wrote:
"Heh. His occupation was listed as "shift-worker".
Probably a typo..."
I'm sure he meant "shiftless worker" or perhaps shiftless wanker.
Graeme is a Tea Bagger! Awesome. It all comes full circle.
I wonder what form of government assistance he gets.
@Rev
The endless egotistical denialism I can just about take, but if you're saying this guy is a rug-peer too, well that just takes the cake...
A seltzer bottle used to wake someone up?
A little song
A little dance
A little seltzer down the pants
Graeme Bird's narcissism was apparent from the other thread, today it is his mania. He is emotionally/mentally unstable and needs either to get help or to continue with any psychological support program that he may have. (Graeme, if you are under the care of a psychiatrist, make an appointment now)
This is no joke, folks. A mentally ill person is not to be gawked at no matter how conveniently placed his web cage may be.
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/new-rule-you-cant-use-there…
Holy shitcakes! What a thread. I'm bookmarking this and possibly printing just so I can have it around to re-read when I either get bored or forget how much crazy is out there.
Spokesgay @11: LOL You are at your best when you are not bitter.
I'm bitter about BirdBrain's nom de blog reminding me of Graham Greene, and then not delivering anything of literary value.
I'm still waiting on MY FINISHED
"Goose-stepping Sheeple big-bang believer" has got to be a song title.
Well I saw this thing comin' out of the sky
It had one big horn and one red eye
I commenced to shakin' and I said hoo-ee
Looks like a sheeple big-bang believer to me
It was a one-horned goose-steppin' sheeple big-bang believer
(One-horned goose-steppin' sheeple big-bang believer)...
And here I thought what I said in the last thread was the most insane.
Were you trying to outdo me, Mr. Bird? I'll not have that!
GLOBAL WARMING IS A FLAT PANCAKE EARTH WITH NO BIRTH CERTIFICATE! COMPLEXITY! TIME CUBE! THEREFORE PZDIDIT!
CAPS LOCK IS AUTO-PILOT FOR COOL.
There! I bet you can't top that, delusional one!
Okay, I now have a lock on this guy. He's a surrealist poet! And his "literary" persona is a sarcastic take on himself. Who are we going to get to play this guy on stage?
@Lynna #229
Why, surely none other than the great John Malkovich?
Notice that the bad-crazy guy thinks that debate is the way to settle things.
Perhaps you should call the shipping company. They may have lost the package.
Octopode: this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules.
Look. Look! Absolute proof that all the crap this kook has bee spewing is 110% totally accurate!
For people not wanting to click the link, it is an image of the President clearly holding and inspecting the Sword of Omens, which, as everyone knows, can only be wielded by an heir to the throne of Thundera, showing that not only is Barack Obama not a soil-born American, but an alien from another world who is enacting his plan for death panels to cull our population while rebuilding his dead planet's population or some other crap.
(this image is from io9 and is photoshopped)
Wow, thank you Graeme Bird, I needed this laugh this morning.
Liar, Bed Wetter, Homo ? Your capacity for intellectual discourse and debate is stunning.
#222 is right, time for psychiatric help.
Honestly, this homophobic, misogynistic, racist mentally ill troll isn't funny anymore. He needs to get banned and receive some professional help (the former is definitely going to happen, the latter unlikely).
Oh. My. God. The Bird is still here?!? And unbelievably, spewing even worse insanity than on the previous thread. In the immortal words of Bueller, "It's over! Go home! Go!"
The PZ Myers approach to economics:
"I don't quite get it; this is money the government is disbursing to encourage jobs for the sake of jobs, and if they were hiring people to dig holes and fill them in again, it would accomplish their task."
There is nothing this fellow is not a moron about.
Shiny shiny mirror
Fixed it for your again idjit. The birdbrain school of evidence:
DUH!
Ah! Excellent suggestion. Malkovich could play this guy -- movie or stage. I can see it. I can hear it.
Graeme,
Did your mommy love you? Did you not get enough positive attention from your dad?
Need a hug? I'm straight. I won't grab your ass.
Someone seems ignorant of FDR.
My God you people are getting whipped. Its as though Phar Lap showed up at a donkey derby. But this takes the cake:
"I don't quite get it; this is money the government is disbursing to encourage jobs for the sake of jobs, and if they were hiring people to dig holes and fill them in again, it would accomplish their task."
In the real world, and particularly now in the US DEFICIT SPENDING DESTROYS JOBS DIRECTLY. Where does this lame-brain think the money is coming from?
Fixed it for you again loser.
"Someone seems ignorant of FDR."
Yes indeed you are ignorant of FDR. So its not only PZ MYERS who is an economics illiterate. His groupies are also that way inclined. You are also not cut out to be an economic historian. Amongst all your other great failings.
#244, what does your stupidity, homophobia, fear and insecurity have to do with the U.S. economy ?
You fail economics forever. Jobs ARE spending, always. THerefore, paying people, according to you, always kills jobs.
PZ MYERS is so stupid he thinks deficit spending INCREASES employment. Hows that for commitment to empirical evidence? A Priori bigger deficits on the spending side will directly throw people out of work. Empirically speaking it does also. But still we have PZ clinging to a moronic belief that reason and empirical evidence has rejected.
You're aware that FDR didn't hamper economic recovery (There's no good evidence the Great Society SPED IT UP either, of course) and lessened the suffering of millions of starving Americans, right? And we got some sweet libraries, bridges, and the like out of the deal too.
Bahaha
Really. Don't delude yourself in your false intelligence. The government is doing now what the government did during the Great Depression. Just like then, idiots like you are fucking too nearsighted to see the benefit. So fuck off you racist misogynic twit. You haven't posted anything with any substance, only pathetic threats and conspiracy theorists’ ravings. Please take you pill
The further up the pole he climbs, the more a monkey shows his rump.
Or
Better keep your mouth shut and be thought ignorant, than open it and remove all doubts
Lets focus on this one subject. Can anyone justify the PZ Myers idiocy here?
His irrational belief that fiscal deficits, obtained through extra spending, causes employment, rather than unemployment.
212 billion deficit in February. Aren't the jobs just fair falling from the sky?
Straight full-blown irrationality.
Sorry fool, that isn't evidence, but rather opinion. Evidence would come from citing literature from sources outside of yourself. What a moron if you don't understand that basic concept of evidence. No wonder you are so stooopid.
#253, the subject is
1. Your insanity
2. Your moronic and very fluid theories/beliefs
3. Your refusal to debate in some earlier thread and instead spew.
Check the top of the page
"You're aware that FDR didn't hamper economic recovery"
You complete fuckwit. Why was it called the Great Depression? Precisely because FDR (and Hoover) hampered recovery. Just as Soetoro is doing now.
The bird is back...
Hey brid-brain you realise that you are our favourite chew toy of the moment don't you?
I have a question for you:
I understand that in Bird's fantasy land, AGW is not happening, the universe is not expanding, the big bang never took place, relativity is wrong, Obama isn't president but some usurper called Soetoro who wasn't born in the USA, etc... but I wonder if there is anything in Birdworld that ressembles the universe we live in?
So I guess Graeme supports the Clinton model. We had a projected surplus and huge job growth.
Graeme cracker...
As if anyone here is really now interested in engaging in actual intellectual debate with a fucking homophobic, misogynistic, pre-school bully mentality , self-congratulatory shit for brains like you at this point.
Honestly, is you haven't figured out that you're nothing more than the nutjob holding the "the end is nigh!" placard standing naked in the public square, shouting insane babble and frothing at the mouth, and the crowd around you is just pointing and laughing, cause it's funny and a little bit like a car-wreck, then you really are just clueless.
Haven't you embarrassed yourself enough?
Fixed it for you idjit. Now, show us a citation to the economic literature showing your inane and insane opinion is correct. Or shut the fuck up on this topic. Welcome to real science.
What's irrational, Bird, is that you're supposedly a political candidate [still?] and you think this idiotic ranting is going to help anything. I do like the results of that election on Wikipedia: Liberty and Democracy got 0.22% of the votes, with a margin of error of 0.22%.
Ladies and gentlemen, we can take no more entries, we have a clear winner of the "I really am that fucking stupid and ignorant of history" award.
Thanks for playing...
Graeme says, "Lets focus on this one subject. Can anyone justify the PZ Myers idiocy here?"
Actually Graeme, you still haven't provided any sort of evidence for your claims about relativity. I'm rather interested as to why you think the evidence for time dilation in muons doesn't count. Are you capable of arguing with evidence, or do you only know how to insult people (and not particularly creatively at that)?
Menyambal:
Silly question! It's the AIR PRESSURE!
Um, what years do you think the Great Depression covered?
And what years do you think that FDR and respectively Hoover were in office?
Just wondering.
Are you joking or are you fucking that stupid?
Bird, here's a chance to demonstrate you can engage in productive discussion:
▶ Do you know what the word “evidence” means?
▶ If not, do you what what a “dictionary” is?
▶ Please give an example of evidence for (or against) the following claim: “Graeme Bird got 182 votes in the 2007 Australian federal election.”
Simple. Three questions. And your answers are…
Graeme's arguments amount to:
"(Crazy claim) followed by DUH! You Fuckwit!"
He's what happens when someone turns from doing acid to politics.
I sense a starfart coming
"So I guess Graeme supports the Clinton model. We had a projected surplus and huge job growth."
I certainly support surpluses and job growth.
Lets focus on the idiocy of PZ Myers thinking that extra deficit spending can cause employment.
See you are either going to apply reason and the scientific method to all knowledge or you are going to take the PZ Myers approach.
In the case of Harding he applied reason. He slashed Federal spending in half, in response to a severe financial crunch. Thus releasing the funds necessary to allow private business to employ people and repair the damage.
Which is why the Harding crunch didn't become a "Great Depression".
When the depression hit in Australia, our labour party went into spending cutting mode and naturally Australia was out of the depression by 1932, despite continuing difficulties with our trading partners.
But the Americans stayed in the depression. Because they applied PZ MYERS irrationality. They went around spending, trying to hold wages and prices up, running deficits, and therefore they kept destroying jobs.
Graeme,
I'm guessing you aren't married. Do you have someone who is looking out for you? I am serious. You really need to go and get some help, Graeme.
I know you are enjoying the attention, but it is not healthy. Your arguments by assertion are not convincing anyone, and you are merely succeeding in discrediting ALL of your opinions.
Go and get some help and come back when you are more capable of citing evidence. I'm serious. We'll be here.
Birdbrain, your inane and insane opinion is not evidence. So, you had a wasted post #270 which is nothing but opinion (hot air).
It was called that because it was in the neighborhood of 14 years long, and unemployed millions.
Check a graph at some point. The upward curve in I believe GDP that began a little bit before FDR is almost completely unbroken (Yes, there was a tremor in year 2 of his 16 years of presidential terms). The difference is that fewer people were starving and idle, and that we got some, as I said, sweet libraries and bridges out of it. Also cleaned up and replanted Yellowstone and took care of other sundry projects. Not to mention reformed the banking industry. You know what happened when we unreformed it? The current economic fiasco.
"Um, what years do you think the Great Depression covered?"
1929-41. In Australia we chose to apply REASON, which means government spending cuts, and so we were out of the depression by 1932.
"And how can PZ be both "lightweight" and "fat"?
PZ fathead seems to manage just fine.
"I don't quite get it; this is money the government is disbursing to encourage jobs for the sake of jobs, and if they were hiring people to dig holes and fill them in again, it would accomplish their task."
Damn right you don't get it. You are too retarded to understand economics. PZ Myers is the stupidest man on the internet.
First Question. If you go and steal a thousands dollars off one person and give it to another, is there any reason to believe that spending IN TOTAL has increased...... This might be a little bit too hard for a blockhead like PZ.
Second Question. If you go and BORROW a thousand dollars from one person and give it to another is there any reason to believe that spending has been increased in total?
But I don't think this will be helpful actually PZ MYERS. The stupidest man on the internet, can furrow the brow of his fathead in a futile attempt to understand. But its never going to penetrate. He brings this low-wattage approach to all areas of life.
I just spent the better part of two hours reading the last two threads - starring Mr. Bird.
I just don't know how you all do it. I don't have the stomach for it.
I'm at work and found myself barely able to keep from yelling 'moron!' at my screen. He's just so clearly delusional, Dunning-Kruger effect indeed.
"Check a graph at some point. The upward curve in I believe GDP that began a little bit before FDR is almost completely unbroken....."
Complete rubbish. There was a bit of a recovery after FDR ended prohibition. This stands to reason since it meant that the locals could raise liquor tax and reduce the property tax. There is no unbroken line at all.
Bird, here's a chance to demonstrate you can engage in productive discussion:
▶ Do you know what the word “evidence” means?
▶ If not, do you what what a “dictionary” is?
▶ Please give an example of evidence for (or against) the following claim: “Graeme Bird got 182 votes in the 2007 Australian federal election.”
Simple. Three questions. And your answers are…
Ho hum.
No, I don't believe it conjures money into existence. However, what it does do is redistribute money from the employed (and preferably, the wealthy employed) to the destitute. It keeps more people afloat.As someone with socialist leanings (watch him explode at that!), I rather favor a more egalitarian economic approach that reduces the rich/poor divide.
Graeme, why are you talking about the U.S. economy ? You have no special knowledge debating skills
Tell us how much of a Homo PZ is again.
Has anybody noticed this? Birdman has his own fucking magnificent blog. Yet he is unable to place into italics nor blockquote the quotes of other people. Is this beneath his immense intellectual prowess?
here's a chance to demonstrate you can engage in productive discussion
You may be more deluded than he is.
Even I know better than to waste time on him.
GDP is the wrong measure in any case. Gross Domestic Revenue is a far better measure. With GDP you can destroy the domestic economy, and employment, with extra government spending, and yet the GDP metric with be increased.
This is because GDP= C+G+ (net)I + X-M
Its an accounting identity. Increasing G pulls spending out of GROSS I and moves it to G. With gross I not being including in GDP, therefore GDP can register an increase. But you are re-routing spending from Gross I.
Hence GDP is a bad metric for this purpose. Note that salaries and wages are business expenses. They are paid from Gross I. Not included in GDP. So if you re-route spending from Gross I to G you will be destroying jobs and increasing the GDP metric at the same time.
Bird showed up at my blog for an annoying if occasionally entertaining stay.
I got notes from at least five other bloggers that they considered him a definite threat, an internet stalker wacky enough to make them fear his appearances on their blogs.
Definitely world class on the wackaloon scale.
Even I know better than to waste time on him.
Thank you, truth machine. I just about choked on my lunch.
"Harding cut the budget nearly in half between 1920 and 1922. Tax rates were slashed for all income groups. The national debt was reduced by one-third. The depression ended quickly."
This is always the way to go. Running surpluses, paying down debt, and slashing spending. If you can do all this and slash taxes as well even better.
See in this case, applying reason, rather then PZ MYERS full spectrum unscience ..... you are releasing real resources, and spending flows, to repair the injured economy and to employ people, in wealth creating jobs.
Hm. This coming from the guy who believes that $2.6 trillion* over 10 years will bankrupt America. Do you have any idea what percentage of our GDP this is? Do you even know what GDP is, Bird?
Why the fuck do you care about our health care and our country's economic policy, anyway? I'm sure that you benefit from Australia's health care system, so why deny us the right to have something a little more equitable?
And you are aware the The Great Depression started before FDR took office, right?
*I'm still waiting for a citation on this, you know. Sure, I could look it up, but it's not like you've never played fast and loose with numbers before, Bird.
"Hm. This coming from the guy who believes that $2.6 trillion* over 10 years will bankrupt America."
You lying delusional trash. You are bankrupt already. What a fucking twit you are.
This is not health reform. Its a power-grab via the systematic denial of medical services to the elderly, rich and poor. Hence its an attempt to create a patronage system. Wherein exceptions can be made, and a blackmarket can be tolerated in exchange for political patronage.
Its designed to increase the cost of medical services more generally, and deny these medical services from older people.
But of course PZ is too lame to understand this. You cannot just switch analytical ability on and off.
Graeme, your comparison of the experiences of Australia and the US is disingenuous. The US had become a center for finance, so it felt the full impact of the depression. Australia was still mostly empty country dependent on mining and agriculture. It is like comparing the US experience of the Great Recession to that of Togo. In any case, the recovery in Oz had much more to do with higher meat and wool prices than with anything the government did.
Fact: the economy responded positively to the spending of the Roosevelt administration, while under Hoover, it had been in freefall.
Fact: when Roosevelt tried to curtail spending in 1936, the unemployment rate started to rise again.
Fact: GNP showed the same trend
Fact: Prices only stopped the deflationary spiral after 1934
Most important, you cannot take the Great Depression in isolation from the previous two decades, in which the rich had gotten very wealthy while workers and farmers lost ground.
As to the question of whether $1000 increases the total--it depends on whether it gets spent and how. Ever hear of the multiplier effect?
Birdbrain,
the great depression was caused by decades of reckless spending that generated hypergrowth and a fake prosperity built on debt. Not because of Govt debt (which was at roughly 60% of GDP when it started), but because of private debt (which was at roughly 300% of GDP when it started).
The great depression ended with WWII, which forced households and private businesses to save and represented a massive government expenditure from debt which rose at close to 200% of GDP.
The same thing is happening again, 3 decades of hypergowth built on an even more phenomenal debt from the private (close to 400% of GDP, from consumers and private entreprises) with zero savings. The results of the voodoo economics of your heroes Reagan and Thatcher, continued by all following administrations democrats, republicans, labour.
Govt debt( at 75% of GDP) is negligible compared to this.
There can be no growth in the years to come, not as long as the private sector can't possibly pile on more debt but needs to deleverage.
In the meantime, the only thing Govt can do is to provide the necessary social benefits to help those who are going to suffer from this. Govt is the only one which can possibly take on more debt and smooth out the depression, for what has taken 30 years to destroy our future won't be solved in a couple of years.
Solidarity with those who can't survive is something you selfish libertarian pig refuse to consider.
Only nutcases like you focus on Govt debt, when the real cancer that is destroying our future and hampering recovery is the phenomenal level of private debt.
Asshole.
"No, I don't believe it conjures money into existence. However, what it does do is redistribute money from the employed (and preferably, the wealthy employed) to the destitute. It keeps more people afloat."
You idiot Myers. You already had a welfare system in place. Slashing government spending would have employed a lot of those people that were on the welfare. Increasing government spending takes money straight out of gross investment and throws them onto the welfare.
Spending for compassionate reasons is one thing. But let us not delude ourselves that government deficit spending provides employment.
You thought that by parroting nobel prizewinners you had a case. You don't have a case. You've got to learn to think for yourself fathead. Or stop this pretense that you are a scientist, wipe this insulting thread, and apologise.
You attacked me first and not the other way around. You've shown yourself up as being not worthy of the speeches on epistemology that you have been giving.
"Graeme, your comparison of the experiences of Australia and the US is disingenuous."
You complete fucking moron. I've just explained why deficits via more spending destroys jobs. And I gave you also a comparison with the US under Harding and the US under Hoover-FDR.
Well, that was a total blockquote fail on my part. But, you get the point.
Evidence
Fixed it for you again loser. Get with the truth. It ain't kind to your idiocy though
Possibly. However, it was by persistent questioning that several of its beliefs were made clear(er). Pee Zed referred to its answers to those persistent questions in his post (truther). The questioning started before the discovery of its blog, which provided confirmatory evidence for some (but not all) of the eventually-provided answers.
One (of many issues) is it seems to have no concept of evidence. This is noticeably missing from its blog as well as its posts both here and at other blogs, including the two (at least) dedicated to discussing it. Whether or not the new set of questions will further illuminate this oddity is unknown, but as it (eventually) worked a few days ago, it's worth a try again.
Q: What's even more boring than economics:
A: Krazy krank klownkar economiks.
Ignoring FreeBird (...Lawd knows he cain't chay-ay-ay-ay-ay-ay-ay-ange [insert off-the-shelf geberic guitar solo here]):
*eyeroll* Dude, if I lightened up any more I'd be bumping my head on the ceiling. Did you really think that the character I'm playing on this blog could see that comment from the character you're playing on this blog and not respond? It's, like, in my contract. For future reference, please treat all posts under this nym to be sarcastic unless obviously otherwise. Maybe I'll come up with a little "sincere" smiley-thing to use in the increasingly few cases where I care to say something serious around here.
It was getting pretty bad for sure, and had been for a while. Bad enough that I quit the shakedown scene around '89 and I don't think I even saw any shows past '93. My peak deadheaded days were '80-'85 or so, a magical time for all concerned, particularly Jerry's Persian dealer. The lot scene was much more mellow and kind back then. And the burritos were better too. [insert little sincerity symbol]
You missed me continuing to kick your sorry ass in the bracketological challenge.
Panic rocked, one assumes?
"the great depression was caused by decades of reckless spending that generated hypergrowth and a fake prosperity built on debt."
True. Very good. Although it is going a bit far to say that the prosperity was all fake. But yes your description is pretty good. Very much like the Clinton era. There had been too much monetary growth in the 20's. About 7% per year.
The Federal Reserve caused all that its true. But when the crash came it was Hoover then FDR that prevented the recovery.
Just as it was World War I inflation that lead to the Harding crash. But in this case, Hardings policies meant the recovery came quickly.
Bird-brain,
more nnsense:
So explain how France, which spends about 9% of its GDP on healthcare via an almost entirely publicly funded universal system, manages to be ranked #1 by the WHO for the quality its healthcare?
Compare with the USA, with more than 70% of its healthcare privately funded and ranked only #37 by the WHO, which spends 16% of its GDP on healthcare.
Or are you also going to deny these facts?
Public universal healthcare reduces costs and provides an excellent level of service to 100% of residents.
Yawn, still nothing cogent from the birdbrain. Who thinks he is an authority on everything, but isn't. We have words to describe these folks. Dysfunctional comes to mind. No credentials other than idiocy have been demonstrated. What a loser. Authority with this group requires something more than mere opinion of a Aussie liberturd. Emphasis on the turd.
Yes I am officially out in all brackets everywhere for eternity.
Yes they rocked. Hard. The HoB is a shitty place to see a band because they always over sell it. Shitty unless you have an "in" with the band for the reserved seats in the Loge at the front of the balcony, which lucky for us we did. So my usual anxiety of dealing with dumbasses was tempered and I got to enjoy the shows.
Plus it was Mrs. BigDumbChimp's birthday on Saturday to there was much merriment to be had by all.
Graeme says, "You complete fucking moron. I've just explained why deficits via more spending destroys jobs."
Uh, no, Graeme, you ASSERTED it. Explanations come with evidence. Assertions come only with your own credibility--which is fairly tattered by this point.
Want to try and EXPLAIN why comparing a center of commerce to an agricultural global backwater is not disingenuous?
Moreover, your insulting tone does not add to your credibility. Rather it speaks of someone who is desperately afraid he'll be called on his ignorance. Fear, Graeme. I can smell it all the way from Oz.
"By what measure, Bird?"
Debts, deficits, and unfunded liabilities. And by the fact that politically, you won't be slashing spending in a way that would fix the problem.
Nor will you increase the reserve asset ratio to 100% to release resources from the financial sector. Hence financial and government parasitism isn't going to be severely cut back until its too late. So you will collapse. You will either have some sort of serious backflip on policy or the Republic must collapse.
In the same way that the Bernie Madoff ponzi-scheme collapsed.
Skipping comments for now, though I'll probably read them later, since I see Bird at the tail end as I type.
I remember having fun with Bird over at Dubito Ergo Sum once before, with him trying to reverse the burden of proof (because pointing out logical fallacies is illogical): It's up to us skeptics to explore the whole of time and space to prove the nonexistence of things.
He was unable to even acknowledge a legitimate question as to whether or not he believes in unicorns, and if not, how he disproved their existence.
Not proper waking up material. I think I'll wait until the next endless thread, or at least one which is Game Bird free. I got enough on the dangerous nuts threads.
"Want to try and EXPLAIN why comparing a center of commerce to an agricultural global backwater is not disingenuous?"
Economic principles don't change. New spending in the deficit will cause unemployment in both cases. Actually we were a rich country for your fucking information. And an urbanised one as well. So the comparison is good. Your economic history is totally incorrect.
BUT AGAIN YOU FUCKING MORON. I GAVE YOU THE COMPARISON WITH HARDING AS WELL.
Christ you are an idiot.
Interestingly, someone (I assume it itself) has claimed it has a degree in economics from what is, as far as I know, a highly reputable university (Otago University, New Zealand), http://www.ldp.org.au/Candidates.html#Graeme_Bird
That its full bio, from one(?) of the Asstralian L-word political party sites. Our troll seems to be an (extreme?) L-word. And a birther. Truther. AGW-denialer. A physics kook's physics kook. Geology kook. DDT-ban-caused-a-holocaust kook. Tendency to biology kookiness. Apparent anti-vaxxer.
Field Marshall, Supreme Idiocy, with Extra Crazy and Clusters of Nuts.
I'm beginning to regret giving Bird a thread to romp in — he's very, very crazy and kind of repulsive.
What do those who are engaging him say? Toss him out on his ass now, or let him shriek helplessly for a little while longer before I give him a dank cell in the dungeon?
Lets go over this again. Using human reason, the cost-cutting government of Australia, came out of depression by 1932. Australia was a wealthy and urbanised country for its time.
Using irratinality and cost-increasing measures, the Americans stayed in recession until 1941.
Its a valid comparision. I also gave you the Harding comparison. I also explained very clearly WHY extra spending causes unemployment.
So you can just stop being an idiot. And you ought to just ask yourself ever thirty seconds or so WHERE IS THE MONEY COMING FROM.
That way you won't make a fool of yourself like Myers.
Bird-brain,
No it wasn't. The FED is just a tool. What caused all this is the prevalent anglo-saxon libertarian dogma of finance-led capitalism that Government should try to regulate as least as possible, maintain markets as free as possible, and do nothing to hamper this artificial bubble growth built on an ever increasing debt.
The monetary growth we have seen over the last 30 years (close to 10% per annum, ie 3 times the growth of GDP) is just a symptom of this nonsensical dogma of laissez-faire neoclassical economics.
This wasn't started by Clinton, nor Blair, but by Reagan and Thatcher. That's when the cancer started. They caused it by thinking that voodoo economics and the solution of facility of spending all you've got and saving nothing would build a more prosperous future. It only did for a while, now we've got the mess. A mega mess.
Any hard numbers to back this up?
I honestly don't think you fully comprehend the size of the American economy. As of 2008, the GDP was 14.2 trillion dollars*. I'd also like you to take a look at this, because it is interesting to note that all but one of the five highest ranked countries (in terms of GDP) provides some sort of "socialized" health care.
And I ask again: How's the Aussie system treating you?
* Stupid link won't work for me. Here's where I got the info: http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met=ny_gdp_mktp_cd&idim=coun…
Graeme,
Again, you ASSERTED that Harding did the right thing. And yet, the economy remained in freefall. The data say you are wrong. You know, the evidence. It was only after Roosevelt turned on the taps of public spending that things began to recover. When he turned off the spending prematurely, the economy dipped again. That provides pretty strong evidence that public spending helped.
The evidence also shows that OZ started to recover only when agricultural commodities started to recover. And I did not say you were not a prosperous agricultural backwater.
Where's your evidence, Graeme. Not assertions. Not insults. Evidence. You know:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence
Oh, PZ, can I play just a little bit more? I haven't wasted enough of my vacation on this ass clown.
No no. The Fed caused the initial crunch via monetary growth. Pretty much every financial crunch is preceded by monetary growth.
However it is true that private banks can ALSO cause financial panics. And will do so if they are allowed to practice fractional reserve. As the history of banking these last thousand years demonstrates.
But the Fed caused the initial problem. Thats a fact. Just as excessive monetary growth during world war I lead to problems afterwards. This is a common pattern and nothing for an ignorant person like you to be worrying about.
Bird, here's a chance to demonstrate you can engage in productive discussion:
▶ Do you know what the word “evidence” means?
▶ If not, do you what what a “dictionary” is?
▶ Please give an example of evidence for (or against) the following claim: “Graeme Bird got 182 votes in the 2007 Australian federal election.”
Simple. Three questions. And your answers are…
PZ,
Let this chew toy on for a little while longer.
Not that he is ever going to come to reason, but it's entertaining. At least for me.
" ▶ Do you know what the word “evidence” means?"
Yes but you and PZ Myers do not seem to.
Now stop spamming.
Wait, what? Compared to whom?
Hey birdbrain. You are still tossing your inane and insane opinion around like it means anything to use. It doesn't. Evidenceless opinion is loser talk. Try some real experts. You know, with names like Greenspan, etc. Show us you really understand economic theory. Not just self taught idjiticy.
@Graeme Bird:
You know... I gave you a chance. Really, I did. You said the health care bill was a totalitarian takeover, and I thought to myself, "Surely, he has a reason for saying that!" and I was interested to hear it.
Unfortunately, it didn't take you long to destroy any kind of credibility. Everyone here knows that the people who can't provide evidence generally don't have any, and are just moving air. Rational discussions do not involve telling people that they are just so damn stupid for not taking you on your (crazy) word.
Step back for a second and take a good long look at what has happened here, and realize that pretty much everything you've said is completely ridiculous without lots of backing evidence.
Or just go away.
I should point out this is Pee Zed's blog, not yours. I am fully confident that if PZ thinks I am spamming he'll let me know.
You failed to prove you know what “evidence” is:
▶ Please give an example of evidence for (or against) the following claim: “Graeme Bird got 182 votes in the 2007 Australian federal election.”
Just one question now. What is your answer…
negentropyeater, you're overstating the case a little. I'm not so sure you can claim that public universal healthcare always provides an "excellent level of service".
(Note: This is not an endorsement of any of the nonsense Bird has been spewing on this thread.)
Compared to the rest of the world.
Now lets go again. Economic principles apply across the board. Extra spending in the deficit will cause unemployment DIRECTLY. I explained why you fuckwit.
And I also gave you the Harding comparison you fucking moron.
You people are not up to economics. Already its too difficult for you.
Maybe we'll just change the subject and in doing so we will prove that you are irrational no matter what the subject is. But economics appears to be beyond you dummies. And it might be a bit unfair since my background is in economics.
Hey Graeme! Yeah, I'm talking to you!
Insult me. I fucking dare you to insult me. Or aren't you man enough? You're not even a man, just a shiela... a non heterosexual shiela. You couldn't win an an argument with me EVAR beause I'm really smart, so there.
Hey! Insult me! Or are you too non heterosexual to dare?
only my opinion, but I really think it's time to pull the plug on this. Nothing is being accomplished at this point except feeding this guy's masochistic ego...
It's past even the point where "collateral wisdom" is possible, I feel... it's just stupid and silly and I see no point in engaging this clownshoe further.
Evidence
What a lying loser assclam fuckwit. Scientists understand evidence seven ways from Sunday. Idjits like you think their inane and insane opinions are evidence. They are not. Except to show other people how not to do things.
Yet the fact that people here from training in physics doesn't seem to bother you from lecturing them about the subject.
Honestly, I'd like to see 'Tis Himself (who has a Ph.D in economics) rip this guy apart before he is banned.
Ha! Really? Apologies to the great people of Australia, but you have never been a world financial center.
I've only had a couple of college classes in Economics (not my field and all that), but even I know that you have to provide numbers to back up your claims. Hell, I even gave you some numbers to play with, but you seem too scared of them.
How's the Aussie system treating you? Are you feeling stripped of your rights? Has Kevin Rudd become dictator yet?
Myers and coterie have shown up their economic ignorance and irrationality. Let us move to another topic.
What do you dim bulbs make of this:
http://www.etheric.com/GalacticCenter/GRB.html
Here we have evidence of superluminal speed. Also we have a situation where gravity is balanced by the equal and opposite force of compression. Therefore if gravity is disturbed in any way, if it is reduced for the tiniest fraction of a second, the two forces will stay equal and opposite, the extra force being made up by inertial forces of material under acceleration.
Have a look at this link. I anticipate a wave of unreason and anti-scientific bigotry.
Pee Zed,
It's your blog, you set the rules. My suggestion is to let this thread run until around the usual cut-off point, and if it hasn't by then (c.300 comments to go (total)) backed up at least one of the claims it is making, close and ban. If it has backed up a claim, close but open up a new thread only on the condition it now backs up two other claims. (And this could be extended to three other claims in the third thread, and so on….)
Bird-brain,
No, you are an ignorant delusion fool. Monetary growth per se isn't the problem. It's when monetary growth is decorrelated from economic growth that the problem gets built. Monetary growth is almost entirely driven by credit growth. When you stimulate households and private businesses to spend always more from credit (which is almost always linked to rising inequalities), you get credit to grow much faster than the economy. Then you have a bubble economy.
It's the demand for credit that causes the problem, not the supply.
The Fed has been in existence for 100 years. There were two main periods in its history when such phenomena took place : during its first 20 years of existence, causing the great depression, and during its last 30 years of existence, causing what we are suffering now.
There was a period in between of about 50 years when monetary growth didn't cause bubbles.
To claim that the Fed caused the problem is pure ignorance. You confuse a symptom with a cause.
Typical of ignorant libertarian fools.
Sorry fuckwit loser, you will get lessons in real science. You don't know science, nor how to apply the scientific method, nor what constitutes scientific evidence. We do. Your inane and insane opinion is meaningless to reality. That makes you the learner, and we the teachers. Or, you can just shut the fuck up by going away.
No... just... no...
please... put an end to this...
Walton,
I didn't say that it always does. But it can, and at a far lower cost than a privately funded system.
I love Australia, I really do, but man, there are some world class rednecks there. And I can't help imagining good old GB sitting in a rickety old lawnchair, wearing a dirty wifebeater and cradling a lukewarm can of Fosters in one hand while swatting flies with the other. "I have a background in economics" he says in a nasal whine and scratches his crotch through his filthy, dusty gym shorts.
And what exactly are you trying to prove with that link? Oh man, Graeme, that site is worse than that stupid fucking youtube video that you posted (and then didn't even fucking bother to defend).
The cheesy star background is a nice touch, though.
I think we've seen pretty much his entire repertoire of tricks. Banhammer time.
#307
Keep the Bird there - I too miss Ted Holden. Does anyone else think it might be a 'bot though?
It's only a matter of time before he gets to the swirling vortices and balloon animals...
Bird, you haven't answered the final point yet:
▶ Please give an example of evidence for (or against) the following claim: “Graeme Bird got 182 votes in the 2007 Australian federal election.”
Just one question now. What is your answer…
No the Fed did in fact cause the problem with excessive monetary growth in the 20's and then allowing a subsequent money supply collapse later on.
Central banks don't always cause the problem. Private banks can cause financial panics too. But the Fed caused the problem in this case.
All financial panics are associated with and caused by excessive monetary growth earlier on. This leads to too much ponzi-bank money in relation to the monetary base. It leads to poor investment decisions, imbalances in the economy, and as well as all that the explosion of debt.
So thats the cause but how do you get out of it? Well you can stop the money supply from collapsing. But this is difficult under fractional reserve gold.
The idea is to get debts down, the monetary base up, and government spending down. With government spending being slashed the spending flows and resources to repair the damage to the economy becomes available. This is why Australia was back to economic health by 1932. Whereas the US wasn't really in any sort of healthy state until about 1946. But it was 1941 when everyone was employed again.
Since we've got so many idiots here we have this endless feeback loop claiming that the comparison is not fair. Economic principles are universal. But as things stand it would be harder to GET a better comparison.
But if you are a moron and the comparison between the US and Australia doesn't impress you then make the comparison between the US and the US.
Harding acted with human reason. Hoover and FDR acted in the opposite way. Hardings policies allowed the damage to be repaired, debt to be liquidated, half-finished investments to be brought to completion, buildings started to be completed, and so forth. Hoover and FDR charged about, borrowing and taxing more money, stopping the repair process from getting underway.
They used Keynesian policies. Yes and I know the Keynes book didn't come out until 1936. Nonetheless their job-destroying policies can be described as Keyenesian.
Now as I said. You guys are too dim for economics.
So lets move onto this other stuff and I can see and explosion of the same irrationality on the way. But at least its an easier subject.
http://www.etheric.com/GalacticCenter/GRB.html
That's totally going to be the name of my all female rockabilly band!
How come people who believe insane things always seem to be emotionally unstable? When I encounter someone who is intelligent and rational, but holds an opinion opposite to mine, they tend to calmly, respectfully listen to what I have to say, and, without assuming I am an idiot for disagreeing with them, lay out their opinions.
If the image I get of someone, while I read what they've written, is of Yosemite Sam sputtering, swearing, and tossing insults everywhere, it's generally safe to speculate that they are totally insane.
If they also believe that the experts in a field they have no serious training in have things totally wrong... then you can probably state with a high degree of certainty that they are 100% confirmed lunatics.
Har, birdbrain thinks a pseudoscience site is meaningful to real scientists. Obviously he doesn't understand how to do science. Not using pseudoscience sites is a good place to start. Nothing cogent found there Birdbrained, just idiocy, which you seem to love.
or just laughter
re 311:
Are you sure that was Harding, or did you mean Hoover?
You sre linking to some pretty hard core science sites there, Bird. I'm sure PZ will be impressed.
@Graeme Bird;
Far be it from me to channel concern trolls, but I feel that you have probably irreparably burnt your bridges on this site with some of the statements you have bandied about. While calling PZ a 'CO2 bed wetter' is a curious turn of phrase, this is fine. Pharyngula is a place dedicated to the forthright exchange of ideas, and opinions are often expressed forcibly (with a sprinkling of expletives to taste). PZ is accepting of dissenting opinion and is frankly amazingly tolerant of personal insults hurled in his direction. However, you have also issued posts that can only be seen as either openly racist, homophobic and misogynist or as betraying a crass insenitivity to the concerns of such groups. This is crossing the Rubicon, and is highly offensive to many people, myself included.
The form of language you chose to employ on what you must have realised would be 'red button'issues for the predominantly liberal readership of this blog leads me to suspect that you came here looking for a fight, so to speak. Seeking to do such things as using attributes of femininity as invective does nothing to strengthen your position and only succeeds in guarenteeing that no constructive dialogue is possible.
While your opinions may strike many of us as...odd, you are fully entitled to them. If you believe that you have a case then present it along with the supporting evidence and citations and who knows, you may persuade people. Descending into bigoted tirades, however, will serve only to dissuade anyone here from listening to you seriously and will likely result in your banning from the site.
Also, if you plan to rubbish broadly accepted scientific theories (general relativity as a 'cult of personality', the Big Bang as a form of creationism), then you will have to bring an arsenal of evidence to back your claim, and you had better have your game face on. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and simply disparaging the intellect of every other person participating in the thread will not cut the mustard.
I cannot speak for the other commentators, but I do not bear you any personal emnity, and I would hazard a guess that no one else here does either. It only gets personal if you chose to make it so. If you feel that you have been badly treated, or if you find the more forcible posts personally insulting, then why not try to be the bigger person, and present your position calmly and logically? You may not sway anyone, but you may learn something new and at least gain a deeper appreciation for why the people here hold to the positions that they do.
I'm seriously considering a petition to rename the well known "Dunning-Kruger effect" to "Graeme Bird Syndrome"... I've never seen a more clear, text-book example, and I think it should e recognized.
I agree with Celtic_Evolution. Pull the plug.
"Truther"
See you guys are just blockheads. About a year ago I found out, and saw video and first-hand witness evidence that there was molten iron in all three basements.
So inevitably, if this is true, 9/11 must have MUST HAVE been a bigger deal then the 19-Arabs alone conspiracy suggests.
Now it might be that this information is all faked. That there was never this molten iron. This information itself could be low-hanging fruit planted by some sort of regime intelligence.
Everything hangs on this. I just assume that enemies of the US, got wind of the conspiracy that was afoot, and conspired further on this matter. But I don't know. What I do know is if there was molten iron in all three basements, there is more that needs to be found out here.
The reason I think this and you don't is that I choose REASON and the scientific method. Whereas you people choose swarming and irrationality.
I think "CO2 bedwetter" can only mean that he is a animal rather than a plant, as he expells CO2 all over his bed at night.
Bird-brain,
your link @340 starts with:
Sumatra in Malaysia?
I don't need to read more of this nonsense.
Great criticism of many contemporary views of evolution can be found here. David Stove, like myself, was an atheist. And I've no doubt he believed in evolution. The problem isn't the reality of evolution. The problem is the boneheadedness of its loud and irrational defenders. Its a good theory, the main thrust of it.
Here is some excellent criticisms of the theory as it stands, or at least as it was at the date that Stove took a swipe at Dawkins and others.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/838691/posts
Bird @290:
This is what Bird's tantrums are all about, he's feeling butthurt that PZ dedicated a posting to him calling him stupid. So all he does is post comment after comment of little more than "you're a poopyhead too" like a 5 year-old.
Grow up, Bird.
Oooh, that site Less-Brains-Than-a-Stuffed-Turkey linked to is full of win. From the front page:
Less-Brains-… is definitely a Field Marshall, Supreme Idiocy, with Extra Crazy and Clusters of Nuts. And a first-class idiot.
Would that be liquid CO2? Ouch.
can you show us your video and first hand evidence (and convince us that it's not just based on assertions)? I did a quick google scholar search and saw some articles from lower-tier journals about strange aerosols, but I want to know your source.
To add to the discussion of economics (and of KlownKar Ekonomiks), and to shine a spotlight on Birdbrain's false assumptions from another angle, here's a little something from Dee. E. Andrews, Professor History at California State University:
I'll let him thrash a while longer. But not a lot longer. He's really very tiresome, and I think he'll look much nicer kicking his heels in a cell.
The fuckwittted idjit thinks that science is refuted by non-science. Sorry loser, science is only refuted by more science. If evolution didn't occur, prove it by citing the peer reviewed scientific literature. If you can't, time to shut the fuck up, as in science, you either back your claims with scientific evidence, or you stop making them. Another lesson assclam.
I'd sign such a petition. (Link added to the above quote for Less-Brains-Than-a-Stuffed-Turkey's benefit, albeit I doubt it will do any good.)
And Bird, you haven't answered the final point yet:
▶ Please give an example of evidence for (or against) the following claim: “Graeme Bird got 182 votes in the 2007 Australian federal election.”
Just one question now. What is your answer…
That and he's gotten to the point now of just randomly tossing shit against the wall... we've gone from economic wanking to truther wanking to evolution criticism to physics all in about 50 posts.
It's pretty clear his goal at this point is simply to annoy and stick-poke.
Again, it's all feeding his masochistic ego... I imagine at this point he gets a little chill every time someone actually gives him the attention enough to point and laugh.
Hahah! Graeme saw a convincing youtube video and conspiracy documentary.
There's evidence for ya.
Do you believe in ghosts, bigfoot, reptillian NWO and aliens too?
wow.
What do you remember from the Dunning-Kruger paper? People who exhibit the so-called effect are able remedy their ignorance through study on the matter. I doubt Graeme Bird would be able to learn anything, after all he's a super genius...
You will either have to block him now, or block him later after he pollutes thread after thread. It won't get any better.
koo-koo Bird @ #328:
No. What your site shows is not evidence of anything of the sort. It utterly fails to show any kind of direct link between the two events at all. If there was such an effect why was there no other simultaneous signs for it anywhere else on the planet? Why no detection of such "gravity waves" by any detectors designed to detect such an effect, when they had no trouble picking up the earthquake? The discovery of gravity waves would be interesting, and is currently being pursued, but that doesn't mean that you get to just declare them based on such a tenuous connection.
You not only don't seem to understand what evidence is, you also seem to fail to understand what a coincidence is.
One reason to keep him going a little longer is that this thread is currently #8 on a google search for Graeme Bird. It would be nice to skootch it up a little higher and a little more solidly.
Maybe, but I tend to concur with a point someone else made in the initial thread: It gets a thrill from knowing something that you don't.
That would seem to explain its near-total-refusal to provide any evidence at all, both on its own blog and on the blogs (plural) it has infested before being (invariably?) kicked-off. It knows. You don't.
It could be both, and/or simply that it's completely bonkers; or is suffering from some sort of obsessive-compulsive disorder or something?
Hahaha. Wow. Graeme sent me here:
http://www.etheric.com/
It's amazing.
That's some timecube level crazy shite.
What's the timecube scale of kooks again?
It's time to give Bird his score.
Unfortunately I couldn't find a full text of David Stove defending Immanuel Velikovsky from the PZ-Myers type buttheads of his day. The title essay referred to "The Science Maffia" which then and now consists of total buttheads like PZ-Myer who get to "feeling butthurt" at the idea that someone somewhere may be capable of independent thought. I'd certainly like to be able to read the full text of what the brilliant David Stove had to say. I advise you also to read everything Stove had to say. It will at least make a pleasant change from the writings of the mental midgit PZ-Myers. The stupidest man on the internet.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/snyder-joshua/snyder-joshua21.1.html
No comment on the superluminal speed implied by my other link. Its really all just a little bit too hard for you people isn't it? Yes it is too hard for you. Because you are not very smart.
Without re-reading the paper, my recollection is that applied only to those who could be trained (and I do not recall if it applied to all such trainable incompetents or not). Some of the incompetents, as I recall, were untrainable.
Heh. Yes, that.
Graeme Bird isn't more than about 0.5 Timecubes on the insanity scale. We've had much crazier people here before (does anyone else remember DarkStar888?)
Triskelethecat:
Thank you. It was ~1am when I posted that request...I had to get offline for a few hours, but I'll be installing Greasemonkey today.
I dunno. Ask him about the Sphinx. It might increase his score.
So... perhaps we could dub that group the "Graeme Bird subset of the Dunning-Kruger Effect".
coo-coo Bird @#353
No.
What you have there is an attempt by the author at complaining about his grossly oversimplified understanding of evolution, by quote mining sources and leaving out the context and nuance of there arguments. Either way it's still utterly irrelevant to the facts regarding evolution, and instead whines about what the author perceives about the opinions of others regarding the theory of evolution.
I'm jealous, I was hoping for that title :-(
Guess who is the most intelligent man on the internet according to the Bird-brain?
Graeme Bird, of course.
cro-magnum man much less technologically developed than the egyptians?
A hell of a mustache though!!
Graeme Bird is suffering from DK, sure.
But I also think he a fan of bullshit. The truth is not his concern. He doesn't have the intellectual integrity to find out if his ideas are true or not, he just wants to keep running his mouth and feel superior. Notice he uniformly accuses everyone else of being an idiot, as if he can make it true by invocation.
If he didn't break down into fits of childish name calling every second post, I would say he seems only to be interested in approximating the form of reasoned argument, not the substance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Bullshit
#369
I have no idea if gravity waves can or cannot propagate at faster-than-light speeds. I suspect not (after reading the page linked to), I suspect that the Bird has no idea either. However, these people certainly think the gravity wave would arrive at about the same time as the gamma ray burst.
Not a hard choice to make.
I doubt he and that site knows who inhabits Sumatra, let alone where Sumatra is. Hell they probably think it's full of people from the old King Kong movie.
Now if he had said Borneo, I'd give him 1/3 point on his geography test.
"Prof. Stove offers an observation "quite independent of the question whether Velikovsky's theory is true," suggesting that "it is on professional science itself that the case throws the most revealing light." He says, "The great Italian probability-theorist, de Finetti, speaking in 1964 about Velikovsky's case, compared the scientific complex to a 'despotic and irresponsible Mafia.'"
The science maffia. A good name for it. The science maffia of which the dimwitted PZ Myers is a full functioning member.
"I'm beginning to regret giving Bird a thread to romp in "
Of course PZ Myers. You are the stupidest man on the internet. And you are getting whipped.
Here again is the PZ Myers deep thoughts on the subject of economic theory...... borrowing money that would have been spent on gross investment, and then splurging it on one wasteful project after another, in PZ Myers ignorant view, employs people, rather then throws them out of work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I just saw this from Morales:
"Hey, clueless Bird: I'm a spic. Whaddaya make of that?"
I'll tell you what I think of that. It reminds of that John Lennon song where he says "Don't Let Another Dago by" It makes me think of shooting dopey, science maffia dago's like yourself.
Try ever listening to that song and getting that misinterpretation out of your head. You will not be able to do so as long as you live. You are haunted now. (Stupid fucking spic.)
Yep, you linked to an unscientific site, so you had no real evidence. Just the inane and insane opinions of ignorant idjits like yourself. Try the peer reviewed scientific literature, or shut the fuck up. We know better. You don't. That makes you the loser.
OK... really... I think #382 should be enough, now... can we please get rid of this slimy, disgusting, batshit crazy weirdo?
Oh come on; David Stove was a complete wack nut job.
Your just another dumb ass philosopher claiming critical thinking while you dont even grasp the essential knowledge to begin with..
So unable to comment on clear evidence for superluminal speed. Just too stupid.
coo-coo bird @ #369:
If you pulled your head out of your own arse you'd see that it was already address at #365.
The only thing the "science mafia" was complaining about was Velikovsky just making crap up without evidence. Science kind of needs credible evidence for a position to be considered credible, unlike say politics. So far though I can see why you'd have trouble with why that would be a problem since you don't seem to understand that you can't just make up connections between event "A" and event "B" without supporting evidence or a credible causal mechanism. The kind of stuff that Velikovsky's rampant speculation (for book sales)ignored.
That Stove defended him only diminishes his (Stove's) credibility. In case you haven't noticed Velikovsky still has no credible supporting evidence and is still considered an absurd joke by the scientific community.
Yeah, racist homophobes aren't really entertaining.
Greame Bird paranoid racist homophobe.
I'd be happy if that's where a google search would ended up.
Superluminal speeds are now readily obtained in repeatable experiments in the lab. Did you guys know this?
Well you still don't. Too fucking dumb. And if wouldn't matter if you did believe the experimenters had achieved this or not. You batshit crazy disgusting weirdos would go on believing in the theory of special relativity no matter what.
Because you hate science, and have rejected reason and the scientific method.
From memory, there were two different tests where this took place. The first one they showed the lowest scoring students tests from the highest scoring students and vice versa, and those at the bottom couldn't recognise their own incompetence while those at the top could recognise their relative competence. In the second one, they gave the bottom students a tutorial on the subject which meant grades did improve.
But I'll have to check the paper again, I need to reread it soon anyway.
Bird, you haven't answered the final point yet:
▶ Please give an example of evidence for (or against) the following claim: “Graeme Bird got 182 votes in the 2007 Australian federal election.”
Just one question now. What is your answer…
If it's on the internet, then it qualifies as evidence for Mr. Bird (aka Mr. Middle Finger). He's a 4 alarm fire of stupid.
Yes it was commented on: the site wasn't anything cogent. Lies and pseudoscience. Nothing there for a real scientist like myself to pay any attention to.
A perfect description of yourself, who can't determine real science from the lies and bullshit of pseudoscience. The first way is that real science is found in the peer reviewed scientific literature. The fact that you can't see that makes you a true loser. If you can't determine what is real from what is lies, you live in a very delusional world. And you do.
rejecting you for a reason is not the same as rejecting reason..
quite the opposite!
"I'll tell you what I think of that. It reminds of that John Lennon song where he says "Don't Let Another Dago by" It makes me think of shooting dopey, science maffia dago's like yourself."
Death threats Graham really, is that the way you want this to go.
coo-coo Bird @ #389:
Yes, for quantum level phenomena, that's old news for almost everyone here. (Quantum entanglement and the like.) There is nothing in quantum mechanics that rules out such superluminal behavior, but only at a quantum level. Unfortunately, there is most determinately no such evidence for macroscopic objects.
Care to show any crebile (as in from a real science publication) examples of such superluminal actions on a macro-level?
Oops typo...trying to do too many things at once.
"there is most determinately definitely no such evidence for macroscopic objects.
Should have paid more attention to my spell-check.
Sorry.
Graeme
You say "Economic principles are universal."
I'm a few years away from college, but I seem to recall that's a bit of a stretch.
Saying economic principles are universal is really saying that economic principles are true until they aren't.
@ Graeme Bird
It appears that my suggestion @ 347 fell on deaf ears. Further racism and fantasies of violence add nothing to the discussion. If you continue to refuse to engage in a reasonable mode of debate and insist on using discriminatory language then you will be banned. You will have acheived nothing other than earning the scorn of all those (virtually) gathered here. I fail to see the point in such an exercise.
Greame doesn't understand that science falls under peer-reviewed rigorous testing and research. He thinks his pseudoscience is credible because it suits his cause.
Provide rigorous peer-reviewed literature you gobshite.
Bither, Truther, AGW-dinialist, etc.
Well....
That would ruin all our fun for tonight
If only we could harness the power of BS and hate emitted from the bird...unfortunatley he's powerless and a waste of our energy.
Am I the only one who thinks that Graim Bird's accusations of homosexuality are just his subtle way of trying to get a date? It's obviously a cry for love. He thirsts for the man-sauce.
plus a terrible science fiction writer
Well, this has been fun...
I can't say about you all, but I've surely had my way a couple of times with Grahamboy..
zetetic @396, 397
It's the typo in bold that jumped out at me. At least you clarified parenthetically. Just saying...
Graeme Bird
How absurd
good thing he had his mouth full!
Not like that shut him up though.. He still kept on mumbling about erecting some pyramid or such
tbh, I didn't see the naked racism coming. I thought for sure he'd stick to smoke screens and dog whistles, if any overt sign.
It did this for awhile on the original thread. I didn't calculate the time difference, but guessed it was taking a break for a meal. (There was later a much longer break where I assume it was sleeping.)
Sumatra is in Indonesia, Bird, and anybody who gets that wrong is not good evidence for your crazy claims. I went there as part of the recovery efforts and rode through many an aftershock that had nothing to do with gamma rays. There is a hella fault line there, and it cut loose as it has done before and will do again. Offering "the biggest earthquake since Krakatoa" as evidence is gibbering nonsense, as Krakatoa is directly related to that fault line, and serves as adequate natural precedence for any and all events in that area. No gamma rays needed.
And then to argue that a gravity wave would arrive just before a gamma wave, after lightyears of travel, is just goofy. It could have been years ahead. Whoever made that shit up is not all there. Bird, you are trusting in crazy people.
Your economic view is probably something you heard somewhere and have been working hard to rationalize. Deficit spending does not cause unemployment. Look at this case: I just borrowed 20 bucks from my mom to pay the neighbor kid to mow my yard--I'm in a deficit now, but the kid was employed. And he spent the money at my mom's store, so she has it back, even though I still owe her. And now I need to go get a job so I can pay her back. And I can get a job because I borrowed money to go to college, and now am more employable.
Bird, you are a believer, not a critical thinker. You are hammering at scientists to make yourself feel better, even though you want to be a scientist so bad that you are peeing down your leg. Stop believing the crazy conspiracy-theory shit, humble up and get a grip on reality.
@ Doogan:
Yeah I really need to focus more on one thing at a time.
I assume you are referring to..."Care to show any crebile credible" (Seriously, I don't even know how I missed that one! LOL)
I'm just letting myself get distracted from taking care of more important (but very boring) matters. I should be focusing more on the important things instead of pointing out the obvious flaws in Bird's idea of "science".
Speaking of which.... for now it's back to the salt mines for me!
I think you need to refer to the Bird principle:
1. everything published in the peer reviewed scientific litterature is wrong
2. everything published on the internet that contradicts what is published in the peer reviewed scientific litterature is correct
Corrolary 1: everything that is written by Graeme Bird is true
Corrolary 2: Graeme Bird is the most intelligent person on the internet, the greatest true scientist of all times, the peerless example of competence, the paragon of wisdom, the light that illuminates an otherwise obscure world.
What a bunch of dim bulbs you are. Here is PZ Myers, the stupidest man on the internet again. With his deeper thoughts on economic thinking.
"I don't quite get it; this is money the government is disbursing to encourage jobs for the sake of jobs, and if they were hiring people to dig holes and fill them in again, it would accomplish their task."
You weren't able to help PZ out with evidence for his dysfuntional economics view. Perhaps you could help him out and provide PZ Myers with evidence that could justify his CO2-Bedwetting.
Here is a biologist who is so fucking thick, he thinks that extra CO2 is harmful for the biosphere.
What a mindless blockhead.
You just keep repeating to yourself. I'll go call in the orderlies to see if they can get you your medicine.
I wasn't following too closely, but was Less-Brains-… arguing for Velikovsky's nonsense, or only using the complete rejection of that absurdity by competent/thinking/rational people to make some other (undoubtedly obscure and incoherent) point?
"Yes, for quantum level phenomena...."
Hahahahahahaha. The blockhead, seeing that light-speed has been broken, doesn't see this as a total refutation of special relativity. Rather he uses it to find evidence for quantum theory.
More gold from the PZ Myers coterie of stupid.
This from a quantum dot? What a loser. Here is PZ MyersGraeme Bird, the stupidest man on the internet again.Fixed your statement again loser.
No ignorant idjit fuckwit, PZ and the scientists are right. You are a delusional fool. Keep it up. We are laughing at you. You and your inane and insane ideas are nothing but comic relief. Ignorant assclam written all over them...
Time to go all Dick Cheney on this Bird.
Hey did you dummies know that gravity propagates much faster than light?
You didn't realise did you? Either all the particles must be connected in some way, so that they are effectively in constant contact, or if gravity is caused by particles, they must be moving at many times the speed of light.
Did you know that?
The angle of the force of the suns gravity is not eight minutes delayed as is the suns light. There is no delay when it comes to gravity.
But still you people will continue to believe in the irrationality of special relativity.
Gack, blockquote failure. Try again:
This from a quantum dot? What a loser.
Fixed your statement again loser.
No ignorant idjit fuckwit, PZ and the scientists are right. You are a delusional fool. Keep it up. We are laughing at you. You and your inane and insane ideas are nothing but comic relief. Ignorant assclam written all over them...
The defense of Velikovsky makes me think we have a crank supermagnet on our hands. Funny how they also always tend to be racists and homophobes as well. Which begets which?
Bird, a reminder, you still haven't answered the final point yet:
▶ Please give an example of evidence for (or against) the following claim: “Graeme Bird got 182 votes in the 2007 Australian federal election.”
It's just one question now. Not even a difficult one. So what's your answer…
He won't notice. He just had time to sip a few more pints of Fosters which means that the Bird-brain is now not only delusional but also inebriated.
I think he's running to outdo Oliver St. John-Mollusc as most outstanding twit of the year.
So tedious.
Present one paper that shows that special relativity has been falsified.
C'mon Graeme.
Please defend "Economic principles are universal" to a bunch of scientists.
Lee Picton here: live journal, which has always been so reliable, seems to be buggered up. Well. I have been following the bird-brain saga, and have one cent's worth of opinion, as it probably isn't worth two. I think bird brain may have had functioning gray matter some time in the distant past, and actually acquired some education as he doesn't appear to be stupid. But somewhere along the line, he ran off the rails into mental illness. His postings are quite crazy, but may be reflecting an acute need of validation for his very identity. You respond to him, therefore he exists. You other learned Pharyngulites, who have at least tried using reason on him, are wasting your precious gray cells. Real information will not get past his "crazy filter." Now he has become merely tiresome and repetitive and should be benned. The internet is a big place, and he should be able to move on to someone else's blog. I would have banned him when he veered off into hate invective, but PZ has a level of patience granted to few of us. But seriously, PZ, it's time, the extra pennies aren't worth it.
I'm just waiting for Bird to tell us about FTL drives.
"And then to argue that a gravity wave would arrive just before a gamma wave, after lightyears of travel, is just goofy. It could have been years ahead. "
Two days. Thats what the evidence says. The implication is that the shockwave starts off at vastly faster than the speed of light and then slows down to around light-speed afterwards. But that logical inference was just a little bit too difficult for the PZ MYERS club for the stupid.
Links please
He doesn't need to. Refer to the Bird principle.
I haven't been paying attention; can someone tell me how many tenths of a timecube Graeme 'Loony' Birdbrain has managed to score so far?
Can you guys please take Graeme under your wing like you did with Ken Ham?
I'm sure there is a nice little town somewhere in Texas where his views will be welcomed with open arms, and quite frankly, I think he drags us down a bit.
Or how to prove someone is a witch.
I don't think so loser. We are very smart. You aren't. Your ego vastly outstrips you intellect. That is obvious with you penchant for pseudoscience...
So you're going to shoot /us/? That hardly seems fair.
Mike of OZ, you can't just dump off that goblok that doesn't know the geography of the country directly north of him on Ol' Greg like that.
I think Graeme should actually try citing sources so we could have a shred of evidence to base his retarded assertions on. SRT hasn't been disproven or if it has he should cite the paper that killed it.
"Present one paper that shows that special relativity has been falsified."
Its a religion. Not a valid scientific theory. So its not falsifiable. So the fact that superluminal speeds are now routinely produced in the lab cannot refute it. Since its not a rational scienctific theory.
Likewise though to Dingle refutation is unassailable in logic it doesn't matter. Special relativity is irrational. No rational evidence or reason can destroy it.
Without going back over the scores to actually verify, I think it works out to somewhere around 0.5Tc. Someone should run a poll…
Dude, Special Relativity is absolutely falsifiable. Religion makes untestable claims (Is God present?), but Special Relativity's are absolutely falsifiable. That's why everyone is asking you for the evidence.
I, for one, have never heard of objects moving FTL in real life at all, so the idea of subatomic particles doing it fascinates me. Provide for me the incidents in which macroscopic objects hit it.
Yes, superluminal transmission of information has been demonstrated in the lab. However, it is in a transmission line, that is, a medium other than a vacuum. This does not violate special relativity which only holds that light speed in a vacuum cannot be exceeded.
@blf
Weighs the same as a duck.
What a loser. It is and has been verified. If it wasn't, you GPS wouldn't work properly, as the time would be getting off. Don't you know anything? Or do you just like to be an idjit assclam fuckwit?
Bird, you say that there is no delay when it comes to gravity, but you offer a case where the gravity arrived just minutes before the gamma rays, after travelling for years and freaking years.
Again with Indonesia: As part of the recovery efforts, we wanted to give people money so they could buy things they needed, and, incidentally, to get the economy moving again. But we didn't just give them the money, we paid them to dig drainage ditches. We could just as easily paid half of them to fill the ditches back in, again--which was what PZ was talking about--filling in holes. Or we could have just handed out the money, or even paid folks for sex, or had them all kick cows--it wouldn't matter--getting the money out there and moving around was the real goal, digging holes was something that needed to be done that kept the local folks some dignity, but they could have done any damn thing to "earn" the money. PZ was right, and you are wrong, Bird.
Good idea. Greame, can you move to the U.S? It'll increase the average intelligence of both countries. :)
Actually, it occurs to me we should probably introduce Less-Brains-… to TimeCube. Bird could actually probably make sense of it, it appears to be a good match for his expertise, knowledge, scientific methods, and abilities.
There has never been any evidence that c cannot be exceeded. Actually now its exceeded routinely.
But PZ Myers, and people on scienceblogs sites more generally, are totally committed irrationalists. So if I link experiments where the speed of light has been beaten, it won't make a stitch of difference to the irrational automatons.
"Experiments of the superluminal category, however, are radical and their positive outcome poses an immediate threat to the theory of Special Relativity.
The following is a brief list of the crucial experiments:
1. The Nimtz experiment:
In this experiment, a famous symphony of Mozart is encoded in a microwave beam and transmitted to a receiver at 4.7 times the speed of light. It’s a decisive experimental refutation of the current attempts at redefining the speed limit of Relativity as the limiting speed of information rather than limiting speed of objects.
2. The Ranfagni experiment:
In this experiment, observed pulses of reflected microwaves are clocked at up to 1.25c in open air. Thus, the supposition that superluminal speeds of light are possible only inside artificial optical materials is experimentally falsified. Light indeed can travel at superluminal speeds in open air, and by simple inference, in vacuum as well.
3. The Wang experiment:
In this experiment, a laser pulse travels through gas-filled cells at a record superluminal speed of 310c.
4. The Stenner experiment:
In this experiment, a refractive index of –19 ± 0.8 is inferred. It’s designed to investigate the so-called velocity of information. A critical analysis of the Stenner experiment will be given later in this discussion.
5. The Munday experiment:
In this experiment, superluminal speeds of light are achieved for the first time inside fibre optics.
6. The Thévenaz experiment:
In this experiment, superluminal and subluminal speeds of light are achieved inside fibre optics."
Bird what is it with your particular mental pathology that renders you completely incapable of providing links to the source material?
Oh for fuck's sake.
Which makes more sense?
An earthquake caused a tsunami.
A superluminal gravity wave caused an earthquake that caused a tsunami.
"Bird, you say that there is no delay when it comes to gravity, but you offer a case where the gravity arrived just minutes before the gamma rays, after travelling for years and freaking years."
No you are lying. Try again. This time without lying. I said nothing that you imply above. It appears that PZ MYERS and his coterie will simply lie if they don't want to acknowledge evidence.
Didn't the Wang experiment involve a well endowed Chinaman and a donkey?
Geoffrey, yes, that's the commonly-accepted hypothesis. I'm curious what Bird knows as to how to prove someone is a witch.
Earth-to-Bird, you haven't answered the final point yet:
▶ Please give an example of evidence for (or against) the following claim: “Graeme Bird got 182 votes in the 2007 Australian federal election.”
Just one question now. What is your answer…
Why has no one quoted Carlin yet?
Graeme, Carlin sums up my thoughts about you completely:
"Can someone put a dick in that guys mouth? Cause that's what he wants! He's a cocksucker in disguise, he's got his mouth open cause he wants someone to cum in it!"
BTW, Hi Rorschach @77 *waves*
Bird - you are a seriously stupid and highly irritating individual. Go away.
I just have an MA, not a PhD.
Graeme Bird #340
It's obvious to me that Bird is an economic illiterate. His LDP bio says Bird is a fan of Milton Friedman. I believe Bird is not too familiar with Friedman's work since they disagree on the role of the Fed in the Depression. Bird is more in line with Murray Rothbard and the Austrian School economists (not surprising since Bird is a looneytarian).
In his 1965 book (cowritten by Anna Schwartz) A Monetary History of the United States, 1867-1960 Friedman argues that excessively tight monetary policy by the Federal Reserve following the boom of the 1920s turned an otherwise normal recession into the Great Depression. Friedman and Schwartz identified four main policy errors made by the Fed which led to a sharp and undesirable decline in the money supply:
● Tightening monetary policy (resulting in increasing interest rates) beginning in the spring of 1928 and continuing until the stock market crash of October 1929.
● Raising interest rates to defend the dollar in response to speculative attacks, ignoring domestic banking panics and failing to act as lender of last resort to domestic banks in September and October 1931.
● Despite lowering interest rates early in 1932 with positive results, raising interest rates in late 1932.
● Ongoing neglect of problems in the US banking sector throughout the early 1930s, and failing to create a stable domestic banking environment.
Paul Samuelson, in his 1948 book Economics, rejected the monetarist explanation. "Today few economists regard Federal Reserve monetary policy as a panacea for controlling the business cycle. Purely monetary factors are considered to be as much symptoms as causes, albeit symptoms with aggravating effects that should not be completely neglected." (Samuelson p. 353)
Personally I'm attracted to the gold standard argument (along with several other arguments). During World War I many countries abandoned the gold standard for reasons I'm not going to go into. Following the war, most nations returned to the gold standard at the pre-war gold price, in part because lenders hoped to recover the same value in gold that they had lent, and in part because the prevailing opinion at the time was that deflation was not a danger, while inflation, particularly the hyper-inflation in the Weimar Republic, was an unbearable danger. Monetary policy was in effect put into a deflationary setting that would over the next decade slowly grind away at the health of many economies. While the British Banking Act of 1925 created currency controls and exchange restrictions, it set the new price of the Pound Sterling at parity with the pre-war price. At the time, this was criticized by John Maynard Keynes and others, who argued that in so doing, they were forcing a revaluation of wages without any tendency to equilibrium.
Deflation's impact is particularly hard on economics sectors in debt or that regularly use loans to finance activity, such as agriculture. Deflation erodes the price of commodities while increasing the real value of debt, which all came to the stock market crash of 1929.
However there are many other theories about the causes of the Great Depression. Trying to pin blame for the Depression on the Fed is much too simplistic. As H.L. Mencken put it so well: "Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers."
There you go. With only 5 sentences, the Bird-brain has managed to write the most important Physics paper in the non peer reviewed internet litterature of all times. I'm seriously impressed with the level of his paper.
It's time to nominate Graeme Bird for the Nobel Prize in Physics. Oh, and might as well nominate him for the Nobel Prize in Economics too. That would make him the first person in the world to get both prizes in the same year.
Hey Bird-brain do you realise how significant your paper will be for the future of mankind?
I'm so impressed, just to think that I was able to witness this live when it happened.
Fixed that for you again, and we aren't surprised. You and the truth appear at odds with one another...
http://www.wbabin.net/science/faraj8.htm
There is Bird's link.
Stop spamming blf you fucking moron. You are an idiot mate. Wake up to yourself.
I notice that none of you pick eathother up for brazen lying. You act like one giant insect colony.
"Bird, you say that there is no delay when it comes to gravity, but you offer a case where the gravity arrived just minutes before the gamma rays, after travelling for years and freaking years."
I've never said anything resembling this at all. Yet none of you mindless insects picked up this other mindless insect for lying flat out.
Bird's prose style reminds me of a similarly reality-challenged Holocaust denier who used to post in alt.revisionism. Why is it that so many internet whackaloons sound so similar in their writing? Seriously, the syntax and phrasing are eerily similar among kooks of various stripes, even those who fall well short of the outright word salad that one finds with aphasia sufferers. Any ideas on why that might be the case?
re 450:
"open air" is not the same as a vacuum.
All of your experiments are in a medium.
methinks he copied that from here
and there are actually references
You bring up holocaust denial.
I'll bet you stupid committed irrationalists are Malaria-Control holocaust deniers to a man.
bingo
Shut up. You are irritating.
I, for one, want to see a band called "The Wang Experiment."
Graeme,
Your Gamma Ray Burst site--published by another anti-science kook--is the best you could do? Sorry, dude, that is just sad. There have been many GRBs observed, Graeme, and that's the only one you claim was associated with an Earthquake--and to do the association, you have to assume the signal travelled faster than light! Dude, do you have any idea on how many levels that is just flat stupid? Let me count them for you.
1)You are positing with no evidence that a gravitational wave from hundreds of millions of lightyears away can cause an Earthquake--and still somehow not register in gravity wave detectors.
2)The timing doesn't quite work out right, so instead of saying, "Aww, too bad," you instead say, "Oh great, the signal must have travelled faster than light."
3)The scientific community doesn't buy your blatant bullshit, so you conclude thay are a "mafia".
4)You proudly parade your ignorance like a dim child who has made a finger painting with his feces on the wall.
Graeme, you have so walled yourself off from reality that you are incapable of learning anything. Neither logic nor evidence can penetrate. You are destined to simply get stupider and stupider until you disappear up your own asshole in a blackhole of stupidity. And guess what: you won't cause an Earthquake 2 days before you do.
Again, this is PZ's blog, not yours. PZ sets the rules here. There is no reason to believe PZ thinks our asking you questions is spamming.
Now, please demonstrate you actually understand the concept of evidence.
▶ Please give an example of evidence for (or against) the following claim: “Graeme Bird got 182 votes in the 2007 Australian federal election.”
It one simple question now. You should be capable of answering it. What is your answer…
I look forward to this one's impending eviction.
Doktor Zoom:
My theory is that they use very concrete language, and very rarely use qualifiers. Conversly, people who actually know what they are talking about have a better idea of the limits of their knowledge, so will use more moderate language with less absolute certainty. Dunning-Kruger again.
That's my theory that I made up just then, anyway.
Bird, you do realize that c in physics is the speed of light IN VACUUM, don't you. In a medium, the speed of light is c/n. Even matter travelling through the medium can move faster than the speed of light in the medium. When this happens, the particle emits Cerenkov Radiation. This has been known for 76 years and is a consequence of special relativity.
Bird, don't you have someone watching over you. Dude, you need help. You need meds--and not the alcohol you've been medicating yourself with. That just makes you stupider.
Just in case someone doesn't know what it is blithering about here, it's one of those who thinks the ban on DDT for farming/pesticides applies to malaria-control. It also seems to think that DDT is the only form of malaria-control sensible people (used to?) use.
Re 450:
First you somewhat misrtepresent the experiment. It actually is transmitting over a microscopic gap by quantum tunneling at apparently 4.7 times the speed of light. But even so, there is some dispute about exactly how to calculate that speed:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCnter_Nimtz
I think the time for the dungeon has come. Unless others wish to laugh at the idjit for a while longer. But my coat is sniny and teeth free of tartar, so he has served his purpose as a chew toy.
I'm still boggling over Graeme Bird's (just helping the Google-fu a bit) claim that Australia is or was a major urbanised country.
Even today we don't make the top fifty countries by population and a quick wiki search shows that some Urban areas (Tokyo-Yokohama are and the Jakarta area) or Metropolitan areas (Tokyo again) match or equal the entire national population. And the situation would have been even worse pre-WWII considering the massive migration wave we got after the war.
Have fun chomping on this chew-toy. I've got to go to bed…
Bird, it would be wonderful if, when I check this thread tomorrowlater today, to find an answer to this one, simple, point:
▶ Please give an example of evidence for (or against) the following claim: “Graeme Bird got 182 votes in the 2007 Australian federal election.”
There's nothing hard about it. You can do it. It's even easier than Time Cube, which I suspect you'll enjoy.
Kohi-no-tora:
Is it a reference to the high proportion of people in Australia that live in urban centers, perhaps? Because I have heard that is pretty high.
I agree with N of R, put it out of it's misery. This is just sad.
Wow, still going Graeme? Maybe it is time to put the chew toy away PZ?
Honestly, I think this is the only form of human interaction Bird has. Strangely I think he enjoys it as we all fuss over him. He's the centre of attention. At least somehone is *listening*.
Facts are meaningless to Bird, what he craves is attention.
Like a naughty child he keeps whipping off his nappy and defecating on the floor, all the while squealing "Me made angry poo-poo!"
Just as Doogan pointed out above, I too stumbled across that website you cut & pasted from, Graeme.
You should probably try to understand more about what the actual experiments showed and how they were interpreted before declaring special relativity dead.
For example, Wang himself denies that his experiment violates special relativity. Yes, you read that correctly. So are you asserting his interpretation of his own experiment is wrong, and yours (from all your years of physics research) is correct?
The Nimtz experiment results have been heavily debated by other respected physicists. Even Nimtz agrees that if it was indeed a "violation" of Special Relativity, it was a sole exception based purely on quantum tunnelling.
Likewise, the other results are all open to intense debate (that includes the optics ones, which I also looked up). None of them seal the fate of SR. Perspective, Graeme. That is what you seem to be sadly lacking, among other things.
Oh this is pointless isn't it?
Bird says, in comment 422:
Then, in 431, Bird says:
I can't find the link to the gamma/quake site now, but I understand that Bird gave it in evidence and supports its claims.
I think it's time, PZ.
Nice copy and paste job Bird-brain.
btw, note the rules for submission to that website:
That means any kook can publish there.
Now, on the first one on that list, the Nimtz experiment:
1. was never published in a peer reviewed journal but in the arxiv.
2. here are two refutations of the claims made by Prof.Nimtz:
http://arxiv.org/abs/0709.2736
http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2007/08/faster-than-the-speed-of-lig…
3. none of this is peer reviewed, so it's all mere speculation so far.
I guess the oterexperiments on that list follow the same Bird principle.
Bird, the reason that no-one is calling me out for lying is either that I am not lying, or that nobody can follow your crazy anymore and have toally lost track of whatever the hell you think you are saying.
Personally, I think you have a fearsome amount of disconnect in your head--what some folks call cognitive dissonance. You are not a well person. Calm the fuck down or you are going to break something in your brain.
This link:
http://www.etheric.com/GalacticCenter/GRB.html
Why would something traveling in a vacuum slow down?
Marc Chu-Carroll "Good Math Bad Math" addressed this argument of instantaneous gravity here
My diagnosis? Bird has a severe case of Asperger's.
"No the Fed did in fact cause the problem with excessive monetary growth in the 20's and then allowing a subsequent money supply collapse later on."
This is true. This is what I said. Tis on himself is wrong. He is denying the role of fast monetary growth in recessions. He's ignorant. This is why we call it a BOOM AND BUST phenomenon. The monetarist decision to focus only on the money supply falling post bust is noted but not relevant. Its true that they tend to ignore the boom side of the boom-bust phenomenon. This is a matter for them. You could ask them why they take this ignorant approach.
re 489:
Because it gets tired.
"and to do the association, you have to assume the signal travelled faster than light! "
Yes. Because the shockwave clearly got here prior to the gamma ray burst. Plus there is no evidence anywhere that light-speed cannot be exceeded.
I should of specified a "wave" not just "something."
Graeme, I did evanescent acoustic wave experiments for graduate research. The phase speed was essentially superluminal with sound, but everyone understands why that didn't violate relativity in the least.
All of the links claiming superluminal light (or gravity) propagation work along the same lines. Hell, Čerenkov radiation is locally superluminal, but violates relativity not in the least (and, in fact, is made visible for precisely the reason that c is *the* universal speed limit).
Would love to be called a demented fuckwit, but for it to carry any weight, please give any sort of evidence that you know what you're talking about.
Yawn, no cited peer reviewed literature. Just the inane and insane opinion of a scientific illiterate.
"Marc Chu-Carroll "Good Math Bad Math" addressed this argument of instantaneous gravity here..."
Right. So the choice you have is this. Either all particles are connected, or alternatively if gravity is caused by particle movement, then those particles must move far faster than the speed of light.
If your link your link claims something other than these two choices, its just more irrationality.
Graeme, doesn't relativity posit that gravity is the warping of space, not the movement of particles/energy? Thus there is no gravity traveling faster than light.
Bird-brain,
See? It's the < href="http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/03/the_graeme_bird_memorial_threa.php#comment-2388265">Bird principe in action again.
1. Bird makes a claim X
2. therefore claim X is true