We have further information from the University of Ottawa about Coulter's non-appearance last night.
Last night, the organizers themselves decided at 7:50 p.m. to cancel the event and so informed the University's Protection Services staff on site. At that time, a crowd of about one thousand people had peacefully gathered at Marion Hall.
So…no word of violence at all, just a peaceful protest. Ann Coulter simply chickened out, and the decision was entirely hers and the organizations that invited her.
Never mind, there was no infringement of open discussion here, just another example of right wing cowardice.
Oh, wait — it gets worse. Here's Ann Coulter's description of the event.
The police called off my speech when the auditorium was surrounded by thousands of rioting liberals -- screaming, blocking the entrance, throwing tables, demanding that my books be burned, and finally setting off the fire alarm.
I don't know. Setting off a fire alarm after that chaos of rioting, screaming liberals sounds a bit anticlimactic, you know. As that link also reveals, most of the people in that mob were her fans, politely lined up to attend her lecture.
We also know it wasn't the police who shut down the talk — it was the organizers. Her people.
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Yeah you'd BETTER apologize! Otherwise we'll... well we'll probably just peacefully protest you. And then make you some poutine, because protesting (and getting protested) is a hungry problem that can only be solved with gravy and cheese.
Maybe Ann Coulter oughta be fucked in the ass, hard.
(Don't look at me, it's not my title)
Zero surprise on my part, I would have expected no less from someone of Coulter's ilk. She's accustomed to speaking in the U.S., where her words have no possible legal consequence, and she can be sure of an audience which happily sucks up every piece of nasty filth she can spew.
Glad to see some facts coming in, this has smelt funny since the beginning. Coulter claiming and quoting threats of violence from "un-named Liberal blogs" comments that she cannot point to, no one has been able to locate since and were not reported to police. Unsubstantiated reports that someone saw a person in the crowd with a gun, again no naming of the source and no report to the police.
This looks to me like a massive snow job Coulter has had a problem with Canada for a long time as you can see by some of her comments about us, mainly because a lot of Americans point to us when it comes to things like health care. That and our politics are nationally more in line with American liberals I think she just saw an opportunity to try and make us look bad, it may take a lot of hyperbole and down right dishonesty but she sure is giving it her best.
But... But... But... Is not critical words almost the same as carrying out a physical attack on a person.
(Yeah, I am the bitch who is pissed off that some people uses the word bash interchangeably for criticism and physical attack.)
Oh... so that means I can stop trying to hack into your security system to remotely set your fire alarm off? XD
To be fair, she had the gall to tell someone to ride a camel before chickening out on this one. That was in Canada too, wasn't it?
As for Canada;
http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=250
The CBC reports:
Whilst the fire alarm was apparently real, who pulled it and why is apparently unknown. It also sounds like Coulter's own sycophants inflamed the situation with their possibly arbitrary admissions policy, which (I'm guessing now) would be contrary to the University's rules. Also (no surprise here), her reading comprehension seems to be mostly lacking.
It's always tragic to see another woman broken by the misogynistic culture that we all bemoan here. Well, everyone except "Draken" at #2, who seems to think posting anal sex fantasies is a good idea. I am sure the rest of the board will roundly condemn their idiocy.
As my friend would ask their special needs children, "Draken, is that acceptable public behavior?"
Not enough venom for lots of people, Ann?
Just a cream puff, not a puff adder at all.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p
Noticed that the Globe and Mail doesn't allow use of her nick-name, Tranny Annie.
Strange that, as it is so befitting.
As punishment for your dissing of Canada, you must watch this video:
http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/assetid=013bae5b-00f4-4a8d-abaf-78175c…
So I take it that's Canada 1, USA 0, in the latest round of the Coulter wars?
Oh, so you have no idea of who (or rather, what) Ann Coulter (Tranny Annie) is?
Not surprising. She's done this a few times on American soil. Create a thinly controversial build-up through the media, drop at the last minute, and spread the meme that she's being silenced far and wide by the "liberal intelligentsia". It's the same schtick that Horowitz uses. Granted the college is the one canceling, but for her it's a win-win. If she speaks it's a win because there will be video of people yelling at her and giving the impression she's not being given freedom of speech. If the event is canceled she gets to play her favorite stage character: Victim. In this case she probably sees it as a small trifecta because it happened elsewhere outside the US, an elsewhere generally derided for being everything she and conservatives here openly hate.
The only way this works out to a "whatever" for her audience is that conservatives won't find it surprising at all, just a minor confirmation of previously-held stupidities.
Janine, MOFMA, OM:
You know you ain't the only bitch pissed off about that.
Who was broken down by a misogynistic what now? While the story was crass, it depicted consensual, albeit rough, sex between two equally-invested consenting adults. The misogyny is where exactly, the fact that it's Ann Coulter? If it was Rush Limbaugh, would it then be homophobic?
Let's focus the anti-misogyny rage on topics where it's actually relevant.
Levi in NY,
Thanks but I don't care to download software from an unverified source.
In a speech at the University of Florida on October 20, 2005, Ann Coulter, victim of free speech in Canada, said this:
"They're [Democrats] always accusing us of repressing their speech. I say let's do it. Let's repress them. Frankly, I'm not a big fan of the First Amendment."
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Ann_Coulter#Freedom_of_speech
Shonny, you think that *nn C**lt*r is despicable because you perceive her to be a transgendered woman? Do you think that being transgendered is a bad thing?
Why the fuck are you complaining.
Thanks to the subhuman Ann Coulter, PZ wrote what is in my opinion his best post ever.
'Tis, your comment @18 got me wondering. So curious what you were talking about, I went there and, lo and behold, Due to Olympic broadcasting regulations, NBC is only allowed to show Olympic competition video on the internet to users in the United States and U.S. Territories (including Puerto Rico).
@'Tis Himself, OM:
Not sure what you're referring to. It's a Microsoft plug-in. In any case, it's just the medal ceremony for the Olympics men hockey tournament (which you'll have to find from your country's broadcaster if you live outside the U.S. and really want to watch it).
Cowards like Coulter, right-wing or otherwise, merely seek adulation and cannot tolerate dissent from their point of view. They cannot deal with participation in a truly open forum (which is usually defined as "I can't control this bunch, so I'm not showing up").
Typical behavior of Coulter and her ilk.
Speaking as a bitch, may I say that I am pissed off by the "Trannie Annie" thing, which is insulting to trans folk everywhere. She's repulsive whether male, female or other.
Regarding different uses of the word "bash", I think that's down to dialect differences. In Australian English it seems to mean what we would call "assault" in American English. In American English, to "bash" something physically only applies to inanimate objects. To "bash" someone or something verbally doesn't carry a violent connotation.
Apparently there were a few threats on Facebook. One commenter on the Facebook "Ban Coulter From Campus" group did say that "[he'd] dip her in gravy and lock her in a room with a wolverine high on angel dust!"
Another person expressed a desire to throw rotten fruit at her. Of course, neither rotten fruit nor hopped-up mustelids were present.
"it depicted consensual, albeit rough, sex between two equally-invested consenting adults. "
Can we really have consensual relations in a world dominated by male (white) privilege? Andrea Dworkin says no, and I refuse to mansplain to her that she's wrong.
Even if that is true, is Draken behaving appropriately in public? As my friend would tell his special needs children, no, he is not. :)
Yawn, boring idjit HP, take a hike. Your concern is noted and rejected.
Truthspeaker, you are mistaken on that. It was common during dubya's presidency for outlets like Fox News to call criticism of his policies, "Bush Bashing". And I come from a background where a "queerbash" meant that a queer got beat up.
I do think it is a conscience attempt to conflate critical words with a boot to the ribs. Just like *nn C**lt*r is conflating protest with physical threats and assaults.
PZ, as a token of apology/reward to Canada why don't you take Ann Coulter's place and speak there?
We'll show those Australians how to drink.....
Don't be absurd. One can criticise Andrea Dworkin's theories without "mansplaining". Indeed, one can disagree with Dworkin and still be a committed feminist; there are plenty of sex-positive feminists who think Dworkin was wrong about a whole range of things.
I should add that I'm certainly not defending that vile blog post that was linked at #2, and I absolutely agree with you that it was misogynistic. But I don't agree with the suggestion that those of us who are male are obliged to refrain from criticising Andrea Dworkin's theories.
Cath the Canberra Cook:
This bitch agrees. Trans people do not need that kind of shit.
history punk, Draken posted a link, a rather well known link at that. Get the fuck over yourself.
Brave Ann Coulter ran away.
("No!")
Bravely ran away away.
("I didn't!")
When danger reared it's ugly head,
She bravely turned her tail and fled.
("no!")
Yes, brave Ann Coulter turned about
("I didn't!")
And gallantly she chickened out.
history punk,
LEAVE DRAKEN ALONE!!!
:p I still have nightmares about some of the dark humor links Draken has left for us. That one about Ann Coulter is fairly mild.
Feynmaniac wrote:
Are you looking for a booting?
Damn straight. It is so on.
As to Coulter buggering off 'cos the natives were apparently a mite boisterous for her ever so refined sensibilities... dang. I mean, it's tragic, truly... I so wanted to ignore her here, too...
(/Buh bye; don't let the door hit ya on the door out, &c...)
Only if one acknowledges that men and women are mentally and morally equal. Which you, evidently, do not.
Coulter is an idiot. Her having a vagina is an afterthought, though derogatory comments about her appearance are less irrelevant than in the case of most female public figures because she has explicitly cited her supposed attractiveness as a selling point, comparing herself appearancewise to Hillary Clinton and other female non-lunatic politicians.
You are an idiot, too, and your vagina status is irrelevant and uninteresting. I'm not surprised you're defending her by trying to spin this as a rejection of her femality rather than her ideological lunacy, though. Nonexistent minds think alike.
There once was a bitch called Ann
Who ranted much about the Koran
She pissed off some Canucks
And now, look, oh fuck
How far from Ottawa she ran!
Indeed, one must disagree with Dworkin to be a feminist, since "feminism" as the term is understood is founded on the premise that men and women, generally speaking, are mentally and morally equal, whereas Dworkin's views approach coherence only given the assumption that all men are conniving sociopaths and all women except herself are gullible morons.
But there was infringement! She would have to censor herself in order to not be arrested. I'm not defending her illegitimate views, but I want her to be able to express them!
I think the most violent thing ever done at a Canadian protest was when someone shoved a cream pie in a premier's face (we talked about that for months!)
Really she had NOTHING to fear from us, after all we is a civilized country.
Re #41, boggster, I'm no great fan of the hate speech laws myself.
But do keep this clear: Coulter didn't leave because of the provost's letter or the hate speech laws. She left 'cos she's got all the spine most of her ilk have, and now she's retroactively trying to spin this away from that unpleasant detail by whining about that and the letter. You need only look at the timing and the details of her ever so graceful abscondment to work that much out.
Sisyphus, I think I would have paid to see Coulter get smacked with a pie. Honestly, I think not being able to indulge in her usual pile of steaming bullshit would have caused her to swallow her tongue or something, so she ran away. She will, of course, be busy turning this into the "I'm the persecuted victim" show in no time flat.
@ #42 Actually the RCMP are probably responsible for the most violent things done at a Canadian protest.
Drinky,drinky! (Winky-winky!)
No, actually the only person I know who gets too drunk to find the microphone is one of my favorite "affirmative atheists" writers. Who is going speak at one of my group's meetings soon. The responsible side of me says "hide the hard stuff." But I do not listen to that side as much as I should
Maybe she just got lost while she was oot and aboot.
I'm Canadian - I can say that.
Anyway, on a message board of mine, we use Coulter as a filter for bitch - because they are synonymous, eh?
lagunatic:
No, they aren't. I'm a bitch, and I'd find any association with Coulter to be beyond insulting.
lagunatic: I dunna wha yer talkin aboat, eh? (I'm Floridian. I can say that.)
My brand of counter-feminism boils down to: "Don't let 95% of men give the rest of us a bad name. We're not all that bad."
A report from a journalist who was there: http://afx.cc/ds9
boggsster #41
Everyone has to self-sensor. It's part of living in society. Think about what would happen if everyone said what is on their mind without restraint. How would your boss react if you told him how you really feel?
Canada's guidelines about not promoting genocide may be a little excessive. But if that's what Coulter was going to talk about, then people have the right to be angry.
Alverant, I think self-sensoring is a bit different from self-censoring.
Sorry, I just had to! ;p
But surely even if there was a gun that's a good thing to Anne Coulter right? Second amendment and all that. NRA! Cold dead hands. All that stuff is her stuff right?
@50
In the comments of that thread there is a link leading to a blog of someone else who was there, complete with pictures.
http://haikushmaiku.blogspot.com/2010/03/mild-squishing-event-cancelled…
PZ, to earn forgiveness you must lecture at the University of Guelph! Our pro-reason, anti-theist group “Atheost” would be gracious and hard drinking hosts!
Ann C*****R is a vile, reprehensible woman. But insulting her because one thinks she looks like a transsexual is disgusting. Come on, this isn't that hard. Would you think to criticize a pundit you hated by making "funny" comparisons between him and stereotype of a gay guy? It's exactly the same thing.
I can only imagine what it must feel like for transsexuals to have read this stuff (the "Mann" C*****r" thing is all over the Internet). Even from people who'd ordinarily consider themselves liberals and allies of LGBT people. Can you imagine how awful that would make you feel, were you in their shoes?
And why does criticism of controversial female public figures come down so often to insults about their appearance? If their views are so awful (and C******r's are as bad as they get), why talk about their hair/face/wardrobe?
If I recall, our PM (Jean Chretien) once punched out a protester. The PM was nearly 70 at the time.
Re: her "ride a camel" comment-
Dear Ms. Coulter: Thanks for volunteering to carry my Muslim colleagues when travelling. I didn't think your hump was terribly obvious, though I do see the resemblance around the nose. I suspect, however, that most people would prefer to fly.
Echoing above: don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out!
Speaking as a bitch, may I say that I am pissed off by the "Trannie Annie" thing, which is insulting to trans folk everywhere. She's repulsive whether male, female or other.
this.
Josh OsG,
In this specific case, as an outsider who has some awareness of her internet impact, I venture to suggest that perhaps it's (in part) a reaction to claims that she's attractive and "hot" by some fans.
Sorry, no citations, this is only my impression.
And here's the thing: It is so easy to say terrible, rude, obnoxious things about Ann Coulter just based on her views and her own statements. Why go after her appearance and ways she does or doesn't conform to standard femininity as ways to try and insult her? All that does is get the same people who also don't like her mad at you, in addition to creating a caricature for the opposition that is ridiculously easy to shoot down. Can they call you unnecessarily cruel to her for calling her views ignorant? No. Can they call you unnecessarily cruel for calling her ugly? You be they can, and they'd be right. All you're doing by calling her a "bitch" or "trannie" is alienating your own allies, and really pissing them off for putting them in the position to have to defend Coulter at all.
Being an outspoken woman is ok.
Being a woman who only wears black sleveless dresses and heels at all times is ok.
Being a woman who dyes her hair blond is ok. Being an actual transsexual is ok.
Complain about those things if you want, but it's not going to help you any and it's not going to endear you to anybody who is anti-Coulter and it's going to make you look like an ass.
Being a person who has the views on people that Ann Coulter does is not ok.
Complain about that, and you're unassailable.
OT another internet poll - on climate change
http://www.usnews.com/articles/opinion/2010/03/23/did-climategate-expos…
Framing makes Inohofe equivalent to a scientist.
I find Coulter to be an extremely unattractive person. I'm not talking about her physical appearance. She's a hateful, vicious liar who goes out of her way to defame anyone even slightly to the left of her.
@ 47
As a Canadian and a bitch, I must say, she's no bitch, she's a total cunt.
Carlie@60: Dead on. Folks should be complaining about the substantive stuff--her policy, her rhetoric, her racism--and leaving the irrelevant references to her gender* and looks out of it.
*I note that it's useful to note Ann's hypocrisy as regards her gender, since she's so very Serena Joy on a few topics and would be delighted to throw many of her own gender under the bus.....but that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish from referring to her as a "bitch" when the word is used to consistently put down outspoken women.
*sigh*
Sorry pixelfish - that sigh was directed to the post before you, not yours. Stupid scienceblogs wouldn't let me submit more than one post in a minute or something (jeez!)
I figured. I looked up and saw a perfectly good word for a perfectly good body part being used to describe a terrible person.
Re: why insulting Coulter comes down to her appearance-
-Because she makes a point of stating that she considers herself attractive. Which, well, bully for her, but I can have my opinion.
-Because her views are so entirely wrong and over-the-top that really, any refutation is stating the bleeding obvious. Seriously: hating on minorities is not OK and makes you a bad bad person? Calling Muslims all terrorists and making magic carpet jokes is wrong?
Really, I think she knows, and she's doing it to yank our chains. She is older than 5 and did apparently pass kindergarten, so she must know these things.
Off-topic:
M*bus just went all GOATS ON FIRE on my blog.
"add some comment moderation to your blasphemy website..." (the irony: comment is stuck in moderation)
Redrabbitslife: May I point out that Coulter does not exist in a vaccuum and that the irrelevancies that get lobbed at her actually do a great deal of harm to other folks who DO NOT share her views?
Being attractive is a subjective thing. Depends on the attractee for one thing. But when you weigh her legitimacy on "how attractive she is" you reinforce the idea that a woman's value is derived through her looks.
Yeup, she's older than five. So are we. Lambasting somebody for how they look is a five year old's act.
Coulter "addresses" the Canadian Affair here:
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=36191
(Apologies if this is old news!)
redrabbitslife:
That does not excuse it. If people want to say something about Coulter, they can use their brains to come up with a retort/description which does not insult groups of people. Five year olds, yeah, they'll make fun of looks. There's a reason, they don't know better. That hardly makes a good defense for an adult.
Also, commenting on her appearance is just playing to her schtick. Oh, the liberals don't like her because they're secretly attracted to and/or jealous of her! Look at how catty they're being! Every time you comment on her appearance, you're letting her get away with saying something shitty because you're talking about her face rather than what comes out of it.
Plus, when you call her ugly, tall thin Adam's-appley blondes everywhere wince at being collateral damage. As does every woman who wants to become more of an activist for anything but doesn't want to deal with comments about her looks rather than her substance.
I for one am not lambasting her for her looks, just her rhetoric.
You can complain about her views until you’re blue in the face, but that certainly won’t change her mind, nor will it change her supporter’s minds.
I think she is in many ways dangerous.
I also think that she doesn’t really believe all the crap she spews, but it sells books and puts money in her pocket.
Excuse me, can I just say I agree with Feynmaniac if that's ok. (because I am a Canadian after all and we're terribly polite). But, if it's ok ... speaking for pretty much all my buds, we'd be happy to kick Aussie ass in a beer drinking session. Anytime, anywhere. Hell, we'll even drink your adequate but not terribly impressive beer.
Oh and forgive me yanks but I don't really think you could pass the qualifying round.
In order to keep this post on topic, although I can't speak for all Canadians I'd personally apprecaiate your keeping all blonde politically inept, semi-intelligent, conservative bimbos (this would include Alaskan partial term governors) to youselves. If you don't mind eh?
Yeah, you do have Celine Dion, don't ya.
;p
@Pixelfish- whoa nellie!
FFS, I'm a woman whose value definitely isn't in my looks.
I don't think Coulter is a bitch or a cunt. I am a bitch and I like my cunt.
What I am saying is sure, argue away with her, but there isn't any point. She is doing this to get a rise out of people. Thus the proposed lawsuit against UofO- I mean really, she'll get her butt laughed out of the country, because even if there were rowdy protestors, they are within their rights to protest someone making hate speech on their campus.
So, saying boohoohoo you naughty windbag, you shouldn't hurt people's feelings.... not meaning much to someone who charges $10 000 a pop to go out and be a jerk. There isn't really much to say to her except to play along in the same vein.
But we're liberals, so we're concerned. Which is why she's making fun. I'm starting to see her point. Crap. HELP!
And don't forget they're responsible for Alan Thicke, who gave Kirk Cameron his start in the world of entertainment. :)
Actually, I think you may have her now...
Doesn't she live in Vegas?
:D
redrabbitslife, you're missing the point. Personally, I ignore Coulter, I don't care to give her attention. You posted defending lambasting her looks. It's simply not defensible. People who do not deserve it get marginalized and hurt by assholes who cannot figure out any way to denigrate Coulter and her ilk other than make fun of their appearance.
Now why would Ann Coulter be referred to as Ann Cthoulter?
Didn't you see Beerfest?
grandtheftigloo, I'm afraid you're stuck with her. She's yours.
I do see your point.
I guess I have to feel badly now for comparing her to a camel.
Though I suppose we can go with the bad attitude and the propensity to spit.
There is absolutely no excuse for making fun of Ann Coulter's looks. There's so much else you could make fun of her for, after all.
... Hrm...
... and Shatner. And Paul Anka. And Jim Carrey. And David Frum. And Tom Green. And Doug Henning. And Keanu Reeves...
(/Slits own wrists.)
I hate to tell you this Caine @80 but this is Pharyngula and there ain't no moral high ground here. You can post a recipe for puppy stew if you want.
Because her perception of reality can only be described in terms non-Euclidean geometry?
redrabbitslife:
That's the ticket! Camels also jolt you all over the bloody place, which could be said of Coulter's empty rhetoric. :D
"...anyone even slightly to the left of her."
That's everyone else, right?
Have you taken a few moments to skim through the Wickepdia page of her quotes? Can you say "psychotic"? Can you say "batshit insanely crazy"?
Ugly is as ugly does and Coulter does ugly, rude, and vile. I'm nonplussed that anyone would go to listen to her even as a novelty. She was vile and rude and racist or anti-Muslim at her previous speech and I'm glad the organizers pulled the plug on her, although I question their motives: perhaps they weren't making a profit? I certainly hope that the she returns whatever speakers' fee she was paid.
Peter G:
Golly gee fucking whiz, I know where I am at, surprisingly enough. In your blazing grasp of the obvious, did you bother to read all the posts?
Dammit, we've been apologising for Celine Dion and Bryan Adams for decades. Don't bring up Shatner!
Redrabbitslife: Caine has accurately summed up my point. I stopped paying attention to Coulter when I realised even my conservative relatives don't take her seriously. (Albeit not for entirely the same reasons I do.)
Redrabbit: Comparing her to a camel, re: bad attitude doesn't seem bad, although thanks to Terry Pratchett and his insidious writing, I've come to regard most camels with fondness. (And camels are actually useful and contribute to society.) I personally like "polyp", as Ann Coulter is a total polyp--tiny in mind and spirit.
I'd call Ann Coulter a lying dumbass, but she ain't got no booty to swing. She's as sexy as a thin slab of chalk. A Cowardly lying ass. Her bootlicker and wingnut Horowitz employs punks full time to delete critical comments on his garbage board frontpagemag! These guys are too pathetic to be even laughed at.
pixelfish:
"Huthuthuthuthuthut!" Jingo, right? That had me laughing so damn hard.
@92 Not all of them Caine but your holier than thou bullshit did catch my eye.
1. Take one (1) fresh, cuddly puppy.
2. Leave alone in kennel with only one (1) copy of Anne Coulter's Godless to read.
3. If still alive one (1) hour later, put out of misery by braining puppy with same book.
4. Add to kettle with carrots, onions, celery, basil (to taste)...
... somewhat more seriously, as previously stated, please do not compare Ms. Coulter to (a) cunts, (b) bitches, (c) camels, or (d) transvestites...
A cunt is a lovely thing. There is a high likelihood you were born through one, an even higher likelihood you were conceived through one, and may also find all sorts of other fun uses for one, over your lifetime, whether or not you have one of your own. A bitch is a female dog, and dogs, besides being quite tasty in stew while puppies, are frequently rather nice people. (Good for pulling sleds, too, we Canadians find.) Camels are kinda tempermental, yes, but also good transportation, and transvestites get more than enough crap already, and just don't need that rap...
Whereas Coulter is just a nasty piece of work. She'd be an obscure and rather bizarre performance artist with a strange act appearntly involving rants about camels except that there are actually still a few psychos in the world who take her halfway seriously.
Transportation, sure. Good transportation, not so sure. They, like a certain person, sorta make me want to puke.
Also, kinda smelly.
But certainly, more useful.
Peter G:
Well, rather than feeding your eye and shoving your clownshoe in your mouth, how about feeding your brain? Read posts #25, #33, #56, #58, #60, #64, #68, #70, #72, and #73.
Caine: Jingo and Pyramids. The greatest mathematician on the Disk is not to be sneezed at either. :)
Speaking of "cunts"
You Can't Say Cunt in Canada
Kevin Bloody Wilson wrote a song, about that.
Coulter is coming to Calgary to open her facial cloaca on Thursday. The latest report I heard is that it will be at the Red & White Club at McMahon Stadium, not in Science Theatres bldg on the main U of C campus. Apparently demand for tickets has considerably exceeded the 400 seat capacity of the lecture theatre (though I am very suspicious it may have something to do with security and greater ease of keeping protesters completely out of the building if they don't have tickets). I'm really hoping a lot of the attendees will be there to make her time as difficult as possible.
It would be great fun to pass out red rubber clown noses to every audience member who would accept and wear one, just to make Annie feel like she was with her own kind. It would make a lovely photo op for the media. Her admirers from the Calgary Scum Sun "news"paper will doubtless be there to cover the event.
Oh, pixelfish, I hate to admit it, but I haven't read Pyramids. There are 4 Discworld books I haven't read, and that's one. More camels in Pyramids? Oh my, I look forward to it. :D
What, did Mooney or Laden send you over? We have standards of how we like to call people fucking ignorant lying assholes.
Carlie, apparently we don't have standards, as we can post puppy recipes.
That's an absolute calumny. Sure we have standards...
They have to be good recipes.
(/Also, we generally request that courteous posters strive to provide gluten-free variants where possible.)
@AJ Milne:
Snagged for the Pharyngula cookbook.
Still need baby recipe, though. And more cowbell.
But only if they're tasty recipes.
I have no idea what Celine Dion's politics are but trust me, she's all yours if you want her.
To be much more serious, people like Coulter in my opinion are destructive. They offer nothing to your (U.S) discourse. People of her ilk for example Glen Bleck, simply excite the extremists for monetary gain. Nothing else. As an aside I honestly believe Rush Limaugh is sincere in his insanity. But I digress.
Back to the thread. Why should I care about any of this. Well, I'm a serious student of U.S. politics and watch you folks very carefully. The U.S. is truly the elephant in the bed and we Canadians need to be worried about your rolling over. I was personally thrilled at Obama's election but I'm disturbed by the recent nasty far right rhetoric.
I seriously hope that you carefully watch the far right. I truly believe you could be facing some serious backsliding in terms of civil rights and freedoms. When Coulter says things like "arabs should avoid the flight screening and just fly on magic carpets, or ride camels" that frightens me. The American people are so much better that that. You need to insure Coulter and her like don't grab the headlines.
Carlie, apparently we don't have standards, as we can post puppy recipes.
Very cogent point.
Caine: Yeup, an AWESOME camel is in Pyramids. Pyramids, while not as touching as Small Gods, or as pithy as Hogfather, is another one of the Pratchett meditations on gods, religion, and how people invent their worlds.
"you can't say..."
This really doesn't work very well as a written gag, but ...
"(s)he's a real sunt. That's French, with a cédille."
(from The Birthday Party)
For those unfamiliar with French, Ç (C with a cédille) is pronounced like S in English.
Pixelfish, I haven't been disappointed in Discworld yet, I've bumped it up on the next book binge. :)
Pixelfish, I think I love you. "Polyp" is perfect.
I, too, get peeved pissed off when people do the she's-tall-and-skinny-with-a bumpy-throat-amd-therefore-must-be-transgendered. So fucking what if she is? And how on earth does that have anything to do with the hateful blobs of pus that she flings out into the world? I don't care what she looks like; as my grandmother said, beauty is as beauty does - and AC is ugly on the inside, where it counts.
And camels are lovely beasts. My father's favourite camel was Shaitan. Shaitan was very attached to him, and would have been more attached if he could have reached my father's foot...
And Ann is not a bitch; bitches are lovely people. It is an insult to liken the Polyp to bitches.
Real atheists eat them raw.
KOPD, no, no. Barbecued! Or roasted, they are very good slow roasted.
Well, at least as a ceviche.
I wonder if Coulter knows (or maybe I should say "believes") that camels originated in North America about 50 million years ago. I've never seen any evidence she lets facts influence her in the slightest, though.
Some amusing moments involving ann coulter. http://www.vidoemo.com/yvideo.php?a-conversation-between-ann-coulter-al…
My description of ann coulter would be, If she was broken down to her component atoms, and they were reassembled as pond scum, there would be a measurable decrease in the IQ of pond scum on a global scale.
These camels have interesting names. For instance the world's greatest mathematician (who begins movement by thinking "let legs equal four") is You Bastard. Other camels are Evil-Smelling-Bugger, Bloody Stupid, and You Vicious Brute.
http://tinyurl.com/yk22ma9
for the full video, about 2 hours (forumchannel)
There is a reason why the junior senator from Minnesota gave Coulter a significant part in his Lies, and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balance Look at the RIght.
'Tis Himself: Thanks for clearing that up. I was trying to recall if You Bastard was the greatest mathematician in question. For some reason I have got him confused with Rogers the Bulls and Bruno the enraged stallion on other occasions. (Namewise, not rolewise.)
'Tis, ah, in true Pratchett form when it comes to camels.
If only she were a polyp.
Polypectomies are quite simple. I suspect she really is a small piece of a larger cancer.
And therein lies the problem.
Beauty is only skin deep, but ugly goes all the way to the bone.
You know, Rogers the Bulls is one of my favorite of the less-well known inhabitants of the Discworld.
Am also very fond of Lez, Solid Jackson's kid and Sean Ogg. (If I am misspelling the names, forgive me--I have only listened to them for a number of years now)
I would second the movement not to call this filth-spewing excuse for a polyp a bitch. The very special bitch in my life (spayed though she is) may be a drama-queen freak out who screams at the slightest provocation but even she is not half so teeth-grindingly aggravatingly annoying as Ms Coulter is.
On a nicer note, you all have inspired me to actually try reading the Discworld novels as my relaxation from classes this summer rather than continuing to put it off. I simply must read about these camels (who are actually quite nice if you really get to know them).
How to Eat A Baby
Step 1. Procure baby
Step 2. Enjoy!
I think we're slipping so....
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s182/filmsprocket/baby-in-pot.jpg
Ann Coulter thinks all babies are liberal and should be eaten.
Sarah T,
What??? No seasoning????
And, I thought that conservatives where the ones with a spine.
Otrame:
Rogers the Bull and the Judas Goat, with whom Nobby feels sudden kinship are both faves of mine. Feet of Clay is one of my fave Discworlds. A fireproof atheist? Gotta love it.
Regardless of how much I hate, loathe, and despise Ann Coulter because she is a vile example of the worst impulses of humanity, I find the insults to her appearance, particularly references to her as a trans person universally condemnable. Many transwomen find it very difficult to transition physically to a female body because of the effects of testosterone during puberty and our rules requiring them to live as women for quite some time before surgery. Using this sad fact as an insult is no better than calling someone a fag or using the term gay to refer to things you don't like. It only serves to further marginalize and already marginalized group.
Ann Coulter is disgusting because her political views are batshit insane, she hates the poor and anyone who disagrees with her, and because she specifically claims that her physical appearance is a reason people should listen to her.
UGH! I am having a typo kind of night.
Any insulting of Ms. Coulter really serves one purpose.
To sway others to oppose her based on perceiving her as less-than-human, or an undeserving "other."
Comments calling her less than human, or other than what she is, or calling into question her definition of herself as a woman.
I'm not a concern troll: it struck me what goes on in the face of somebody we'd like to vehemently oppose based on their views.
Their appearance in our eyes changes to reflect our perceptions of their values and personality.
So, I'm not certain about her appearance; I do know that there is something unsettling about her: it's the anger and earnestness in asserting things that are opinion as fact, and making up things to discredit other opinions or actual areas of study.
It unsettles me enough that I've decided to oppose people based on facts and legitimate arguments, and specifically avoid inferring anything from their appearance or extrapolating my dislike for their opinions to attacks on their appearance or heritage.
So, Thank You, Ms. Coulter, for opening my eyes and making me determined to become a better person. Ouch, that actually hurt to say.
Folks, Coulter isn't the problem. The problem is how many people think she's right.
chickened out? right wing cowardice?
Bullfrog, she was threatened with Canada's Free Speech impeding 'hate-speech' laws, though I doubt she would have said anything as barbaric and hateful as comment #2 above.
She doesn't seem to have much of an audience away from her home turf though does she?
Not dismissing the problem, just relieved it is a relatively local phenomenon.
So, you think that visitors to a foreign country should not be bound by local laws? Or perhaps you feel it is unreasonable to warn visitors of specific differences which may affect them (judging from highly publicised behaviour in their own country)?
However one wonders why, if it was the threat of prosecution under Canada's free-speech legislation she waited until ten minutes before the start of her scheduled event to call it off. Sounds like fear of facing a hostile audience to me.
Guys, do we have to insult Coulter for being Transgender?
I mean, she's a terrible human being and a horrid monster on the grounds of her ethics. What more could anyone need?
Ann Coulter, professional liar. You can just imagine my surprise.
What ticks me off is her response. It truly is despicable. But her little Tea Party friends will just lap it up, won't they?
Liars and the denialists who follow them; what a lovely combination.
MikeM
Not exactly. She was reminded of them. She (now) claims that reminder was a threat to arrest her (her reading comprehension failed), that there was a screaming angry mod (there wasn't), and several assorted other lies. Go back over the useful comments on this thread (that, skip the ones commenting on her appearance) for a summary, and/or check out the various links people have posted.
@#140
If AC cancelled the talk to comply with Canadian law, then so be it. My problem is with the free-speech-impeding Canadian laws.
My problem is with the free-speech-impeding Canadian laws.
My problem is with the free-speech-impeding Canadian laws.
Obviously Coulter did not "chicken out". She carefully calculated what the best thing to do would be, and decided she'd better appear to have ran for her life in front of a mob of angry, shouting liberals. Which now gives her ground to smear said liberals and Canada (hated country with "socialized healthcare") at the same time. Well played. I'd even venture to say that she may have expected this to happen.
And now she's trying to get a human rights tribunal convened over it, with the help of Ezra Levant.
Match made in camel spit, that pair.
@146
Oh, you way make sense. Levant, the fearless defender of freedom who published the 'Muhammad cartoons', is a kindred spirit of 'cowardly chicken' who got threatened with the same crap EL suffered under Canada's freedom-hating laws.
My problem is with the free-speech-impeding Canadian laws.
Then you have no impediment to free-speech in the US (No libel laws, no exceptions for National Security, no obscenity restrictions) - absolute free speech. Of course not; you have limits, your problem is someone else chooses to have different standards, standards that are not 240 years old. Get over your ridiculous superiority complex, and show the rest of the civilised world some respect!
Should have blockquoted "My problem is with the free-speech-impeding Canadian laws."
HTML fail :(
Ah yes, the Muhammed Cartoons. The ones specifically made to mock Denmark's immigrants. So he's a bigger jackass then I gave him credit for.
Frankly, I have no opinion on Hate Speech. I get both sides, I don't feel a strong attraction to either.
Whoops. "Denmark's already marginalized immigrants, already socially and legally discriminated against and facing imminent threat of police beatings or deportation for the mere suspicion of a crime, no trial."
I actually failed to list the problems.
I agree with many people above that a lot of the comments made about Coulter's appearance are out of line. Coulter deserves criticism for her bizarre political views, and the fact that she makes a lot of money by flinging invective at people; but her appearance and the shape of her throat are not relevant, and many of the remarks made about her are also offensive to transgender people.
Bullfrog, she was threatened with Canada's Free Speech impeding 'hate-speech' laws, though I doubt she would have said anything as barbaric and hateful as comment #2 above.
right, she's NEVER said anything offensive...
who exactly do you think you're kidding here?
as to being "threatened" by Canada's laws, why don't you look up the relevant statutes, and let us know WHY she would feel threatened, if she's just a beloved icon of free speech, eh?
you morons are laughable. If you had your way, free speech in the US would be far more "restricted" than anywhere else in the world.
you fuckheads would make it a crime to be called "liberal"
oh, wait, you already did. In the 50's. You had McCarthy do it for you.
@#148
Oh, so you demand I respect the 'civilized world'. Is Draken (comment #2) part of your 'civilized world'?
Oh, so you demand I respect the 'civilized world'. Is Draken (comment #2) part of your 'civilized world'?
did you read the link, fuckhead?
it's quite funny.
there's even a second chapter!
I thought they were specifically made to mock Muhammad - and not necessarily the founder of Islam; one seemed to be a non-descript schoolteacher - yet would you think it so dweadful if the immigrants were Christians, and Christ were the one being mocked?
yet would you think it so dweadful if the immigrants were Christians, and Christ were the one being mocked?
you would if you lived in India, moron:
http://www.canadianchristianity.com/bc/bccn/0310/06caricature.html
yeah.
that.
Coulter's tour is sponsored by the International Free Press Society, a far right wing libertarian "free speech" advocacy group of which Ezra Levant is one of the members of the board of advisors.
I wouldn't be surprised if they had staged Coulter's speech at UoO purely for that purpose: they knew there would be protests (a very liberal campus), they would cancel the speech and spin this into a Canadian censoship issue :
These people will stop at nothing to advance their anti-social libertarian agenda.
These people will stop at nothing to advance their anti-social libertarian agenda.
indeed.
again, yet another reason to leave.
there is no room for rational debate with these people.
come to NZ!
let the US drown in its own juices.
never been a better time to be an ex-pat.
Quirky,
Nice try, but it doesn't look like in this affair Levant suffered anything from Canada's "freedom-hating" laws:
Quirky, your paranoid stance is showing. Again.
＜blockquote>Oh, so you demand I respect the 'civilized world'. Is Draken (comment #2) part of your 'civilized world'?
Follow the link - the story is from the US, so I wouldn't presume to make a judgment on whether it is from the 'civilised world'... what's your take on it Mr Quirky-troll?
The acts as decribed are not misogynistic, but the thougth behind the story is. It's about conquering a female adversary by having sex with her. Did you really need that pointed out to you?
Ichthyic | March 25, 2010 5:52 AM:
The US is the second biggest emitter of greenhouse gasses, and few other nations have nearly as much influence over China, the biggest emitter of greenhouse gasses. (In part because a large portion of China's greenhouse gass emissions are a direct result of goods which are made in China and sold in the US.) Most of the industrial age increase in greenhouse gasses is due to US emissions. If America's behavior isn't dramatically changed, and soon, coastal populations around the world will drown. (But not in NZ. Those folk only need to chase their sheep a little farther up the hill - after all, no roads or industry in NZ, right? Oh wait ...) America may well deserve abandonment (though I don't think so), and some people would indeed be better off living somewhere else - but abandonment is not a safe reaction to the madness of American politics.
no roads or industry in NZ, right?
not much to speak of, actually.
but abandonment is not a safe reaction to the madness of American politics.
got your fiddle handy?
Exactly. Why bother insulting her over something like her appearance or gender when there's so much else we could actually laugh at her for?
I have a degree to finish, but that's on the agenda. "Safe reaction" or not...
The only reason to mention Coulter's gender is when discussing her hypocritical misogyny (from wikiquote):
● I think [women] should be armed but should not vote...women have no capacity to understand how money is earned. They have a lot of ideas on how to spend it...it's always more money on education, more money on child care, more money on day care.
● It would be a much better country if women did not vote. That is simply a fact. In fact, in every presidential election since 1950 - except Goldwater in '64 - the Republican would have won, if only the men had voted.
● Girl-power feminists who got where they are by marrying men with money or power -- Hillary Rodham Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, Arianna Huffington and John Kerry -- love to complain about how hard it is for a woman to be taken seriously.
● That was the theme of the Million Mom March: I don't need a brain -- I've got a womb."
Day-um. I thought I was cynical.
@Al B. Quirky
Coulter wasn't threatened, she was reminded. The same way that I was reminded that bringing tylenol with codeine to the UK would be viewed as smuggling illegal drugs, even though they are over-the-counter here.
And Canada is pretty good about freedom of expression. She can say how much she hates people, groups, or what have you. Summed up very broadly, she simply can't call for genocide, nor encourage discriminatory behaviour or violence toward members of racial or religious groups.
I seriously doubt that Ann Coulter believes the majority of what she says. Rather, she's carved out a niche for herself which makes her a lot of money.
She's fairly candid, by all accounts, about her interest in making money. Every time she makes a TV appearance, she works in as many references as possible to her latest book; and her response to criticism is often to point out how many books she's sold. I've also heard, from friends who've invited her to speak in the past, that she charges a massive fee for any kind of talk or appearance.
Coulter isn't stupid. She attended Cornell and Michigan Law School, and had a decent career as a lawyer before exploiting the Clinton impeachment scandal to get famous. She almost certainly knows that she's talking bullshit most of the time. But she carries on cynically exploiting fear, prejudice and ignorance, because she knows it's what her audience likes, and she likes selling books and making money.
I have read - in one of her more candid interviews - that she rarely gets out of bed before noon. Basically, I suspect she's an intelligent person who's figured out that she can make a fuckton of money simply by saying ridiculous things in public, and prefers this lifestyle rather than actually working for a living. Criticism from liberals actually helps her; she needs regular controversies in order to boost her book sales and stay in the limelight.
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Organizers+university+cancelled+Coulte…
Dunno PZ, there are conflicting reports. And the quote from the school body President Sameena Topan, “on behalf of a group of protesters,” gloated that “we accomplished what we were here to do, to ensure that we don’t have her discriminatory rhetoric on our campus.” -- makes her/him sound like a scared little twerp.
I have read - in one of her more candid interviews - that she rarely gets out of bed before noon. Basically, I suspect she's an intelligent person who's figured out that she can make a fuckton of money simply by saying ridiculous things in public, and prefers this lifestyle rather than actually working for a living. Criticism from liberals actually helps her; she needs regular controversies in order to boost her book sales and stay in the limelight.
That actually makes her even worse. At least stupidity could be explained by a lack of education on her part, but this makes her an even more sick person that I had ever thought possible.
Walton #170,
I've thought as much for a while now. I often think Glenn Beck, Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, and the like often don't care whether or not they speak the truth, as long as it makes them money.
They like the spotlight, they like the attention, and they especially like to be rich.
At least, I've thought that for a while.
Personally Im inclinced to believe U of Ottawa ran Coulter out of town for political reasons. Its not like they havent done this before. Here's a link where they canceled a talk on a Jewish speaker for being, well, Jewish. Because Israel is just like South Africa, and this speaker was a co-religionist, from Uganda. Refined Ottawa academic logic, I suppose.
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2008/12/02…
I think you're probably right Walton. I've heard stories about the church she supposedly attends and members there saying she never attends. She's also got a reputation for not being afraid to sleep around.
Which is fine, more power to her, unless you look at the hypocrisy of her public stances on such things.
It appears to be a big giant orchestrated public persona to make her gobs and gobs of cash.
And it's working.
Yeah. The meme making the rounds now is 'performance artist', and I think that's about right. Outrageousness 'cos it gets attention, and that sells books.
The only vaguely funny thing about it from my POV right now is a bit of hand-wringing on the part of certain folk who think this is some kinda disaster--that Ms. Histrionic showed up, did her standard 'Halp halp I'm bein' repressed' schtick, ran away in the face of a coupla dozen chanting students (eek), called people some names... This is supposed to be some kinda huge disaster, apparently...
Oh my. However shall we recover.
Oh. Right. By recognizing it for the theatre it is, and taking it about as seriously as any other episode of Hee Haw.
(/So bye now, Anne. Thanks for the laughs... It was shapin' up to be a slow week. Next time, mebbe wear some kinda Dorothy-type dress, do a 'Students 'n protesters 'n placards OH MY!' thing while you skip out the door... I'll bring the nachos.)
I imagine she wakes up at 6am, but spends the next 6 hours coming to terms with herself.
Reminds me Hitchens' book review of Godless, in which he points out that:
mfd512 posted @ #174:
but that's not quite the case, from the linked blog post by the seldom reliable Barbara Kay,
Those less biased than mfd will immediately note the fact that the 'talk' still took place, it just wasn't paid for using student funds.
Long, long ago...back in the last age, Coulter was on Bill Maher's TV show--- my first time to see her. For some reason, she had an eyepatch on over several episodes. Well--- black leather miniskirt and eyepatch? She had that whole Evil Barbarella Space Queen thing happening (remember: she was much younger, then...and the effects of whatever procedures she underwent to have basalt teeth installed in her vagina hadn't kicked in to give her that Discount Bangkok Tranny look)... Until she began to actually talk politics, she did have...Potential. It was only when she started ranting about politics that the image collapsed. If she'd just talked dark s/m fantasies and told stories about her fetish club adventures, she could've been a fun talk show host...
Well, age has not been kind to her. Nor has ethnology--- the discovery that in Mohammedan temples, there are bloodstained sacrificial altars to Mohammed, the demon Apollyon, and the demon-goddess Tervagant, where Tervagant is of course Ann, she of the gnashing basalt vaginal teeth.
Ann Coulter gave a speech performance at the University of Western Ontario Monday March 22. The London Free Press then had an online poll that asked:
“In your view, is Republican firebrand Ann Coulter more of a comedian or a serious political thinker?”
75% responded that she was a comedian.
Really laughter IS most appropriate response.
Oops, the word "speech" was supposed to be in strikethrough format.
for more of the story behind the cancellation, you might try the CBC's tale and 'normal' Pharynguloids will enjoy the Canadian Cynic's take on the Coulter affair.
A sample from CC
I think some of you might see why CC is on my daily reading list.
I imagine she wakes up at 6am, but spends the next 6 hours coming to terms with herself.
I doubt it. I think she's just a truly horrible person.
More bad news about University of Ottawa.
http://www.socialsciences.uottawa.ca/eco/eng/profdetails.asp?id=49
Michel Chossudovsky is employed there.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=DaE&rls…
Good use of student funds to pay his salary, wouldnt you say captroman08?
Paltry concerns like fact checking didn't stop The Province in BC from printing some spurious shit today - not that reality has ever impeded that publication in the past...
Curiously they seem to have pulled the editorial from their website. One can only wonder...
I'm thinking it takes that long to stretch out from hanging from her claws all night.
Show me how that different set of standards is better.
I don't care how old they are.
I would not defend Canada's free speech laws just because Coulter is repugnant.
The fact is, I think she's lying anyway. Any threat to her over a violation of free speech laws shouldn't dissuade her from speaking. Were I a controversial media figure I'd be thrilled to be arrested for speaking my mind in a country like Canada. The penalties can't be too bad -- what, a few days in jail? up to a month? -- and the benefits in the form of PR and rep would be incredible.
@ History punk #9
I'm sorry, are you really making Ann Coulter the victim of misogyny because she was protested at a university? What kind of social equality are you agitating for exactly, that holds that normal criticisms and peaceful protests are not to be directed at female public figures?
While we are on the topic of misogyny - you do know that Ann Coulter argued against a woman's right to vote right? Think you can "mansplain" how that's wrong, or would that by "misogyny" to?
http://www.am770chqr.com/Blogs/RobBreakenridge/BlogEntry.aspx?BlogEntry…
PZ, you should read this. A comedian in trouble with the Human rights commission, for responding to a Lesbian heckler.
and then, watch this
http://video.foxnews.com/v/4122375/ann-coulter-got-what-she-deserved
According to Susan Cole, Canada has 'no religion of Freedom of Speech'. PZ, you've been pretty consistent in your anti-blasphemy law posts about Ireland. Id like to know how you think this is much different.
Of course, Canadians dont have to embrace freedom of speech, as Susan Cole brags as much. But if thats the case, its incorrect for you to defend whats happened, saying "there was no infringement of open discussion here" When in fact there are many Canadians who are bragging about just that.
Actually, it's pretty clear that she and her supporters are lying and/or generally bullshitting their hilarious little asses off. About rather a large number of things.
Her description of the alleged 'riot' which apparently caused her to flee town is comically exaggerated--at odds with what was reported by an awful lot of people who were present and who did not especially sympathize with the protesters. Her description of the provost's letter as a threat to prosecute is a bizarrely self-serving interpretation, at best. The insinuation being spread that she was 'banned' by the hate speech laws is wildly false--insofar as concerning her leaving, her own people made that call on an unrelated security issue well after she'd been apprised of the situation as concerns said laws. And even that decision seems a bit odd considering the actual number of protesters (not that many, actually), but we do at least have the word of a fairly neutral third party that things were a bit chaotic just given numbers and the physical situation, so the bodyguard may well have done that, at least, in good faith. The claims of threats of violence seem rather overstated, so far, too--so far the only ones I've seen substantiated concern a coupla hotheads on twitter making jokes about gravy and a room containing hungry skunks...
(/Not that this will prevent the irresponsible and generally suggestible from repeating her wildly silly version all over the place. Reference Mr. Clemens on how long it takes the truth to get its pants on, sadly.)
Hey mfd (does that stand for mother-fucking-denialist, by the way?) you did notice the following didn't you at your supplied link:
"Visiting Professor"
Maybe you didn't go to a good school and that's why you don't/can't grasp the concept of academic freedom. Every decent university is capable of hosting controversial profs, unlike the sheeple schools of the Liberty Univ. ilk.
I think the prof is a bit of a nutter about 9/11 but his academic work in economics is thought to be of value. More than one professor type is known to hold 'eccentric' views on subjects outside of their field of study/research.
You're wrong. That's okay, actually, you're not Danish, so it's extremely unlikely you know the Danish political situation. I only know that because I'm close friends with a Dane and she set the record straight for me. Those cartoons were written to provide a smokescreen with which to bash immigrants. That's why it was by a xenophobic rag, the Jyllands-Posten. By the way, the non-descript school teacher was mocking said xenophobic rag. The text, if you took the time to translate it, reads "The Jyllands-Posten is a racist rag", or similar. But god forbid you learn about something before you take an opinion on it, right 'Mr. Hate Speech Law'* guy?
Regardless, in *Denmark* if it had been Christian immigrants? Depends on one thing; Are the Christian immigrants facing legal and social discrimination and threats by the police? Regardless of the fantasy world the right wing likes to live in? I don't particularly give a damn about Islam over Christianity. They're both idiot religious beliefs held by people too ignorant to wake up and smell the 21st century coffee. I do, however, care about minority groups being pushed around to ridiculous degrees and facing retarded legal and social discrimination because of jumped up hyperbolic claims created specifically to distract the country from its actual problems.
*Well, now I feel slightly slighted by the Canadians talking about different standards. That's damn near the exact same thing as what's permitted in the USA, but I'm not sure about encouraging discriminatory behavior.
mfd512:
Chossudovsky is also an antivax loon.
But then there's no such thing as a tenured nutcase at a US university, is there?
Hurin says:
And this is the obvious reply, dumbass.
You're correct,t hat's a misogynistic comment. Those are opinions felt by others, I'm sure,e ven after chastisement.
I sincerely doubt either is reflected in the majority of protesters here or in Canada. And to call that stupid twit a victim of misogyny, when she's a promoter of same, may even be just desserts. And more to the point, she's not even broken. She's still making bank too, so she's hardly 'broken'.
That said, none of that actually EXCUSES any amount of misogyny, and we should (and I personally, do) still oppose it, even if it's being levelled against that irritating jackass. I just think we should keep the effects of each instance of misogyny in perspective, because there are people who /actually/ have their rights cut short, or god forbid, their physical wellbeing threatened by misogyny.
*Well, now I feel slightly slighted by the Canadians talking about different standards. That's damn near the exact same thing as what's permitted in the USA, but I'm not sure about encouraging discriminatory behavior.
Someone saying a group in general deserves some sort of punishment or exclusion on the basis of being part of that group is not allowable. Saying Muslims should all be nuked into the stone age or wouldn't be allowed, nor could she call for the expulsion of Muslims from the country. You can say that sort of thing privately, but doing it in an open forum and advertising the fact isn't a good idea.
IANAL, and there's more complexity to it than that, but there is a difference. You guys can't shout 'FIRE!' in a crowded theatre - we can't shout 'NIGGER!' in a crowd.
...I think.
Hey you know, I was worried aboot Freedom of Speech in Canada. Turns out I was just fretting for nothing.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0853096/awards
You can still make a controversial movie about assassinating a (white) American President and it will win an award at the Toronto film festival.
Long live the brave and the free (from listening to Ann Coulter) in Canada.
captroman08,
Univ of Ottawa ought to be free to hire who they want, and folks ought to be free to criticize that decision in any language they choose.
I agree that her lying is unexcusable but have a different perspective on free speech and hate speech with respect to Canada and Ann Coulter. I'm an atheist and free speech activist and have seen those laws inconsistently applied. For example, when I was attacked as an atheist activist!
You might enjoy my recent blog post on this topic:
Ann Coulter Gets Exactly What She Wanted in Canada:
Through censorship, bullying & probably threat of violence, Canadians on the left give Coulter exactly what she wanted
http://www.equalismactivism.com/?p=2255
Justin Trottier
... well, I do totally understand how Coulter might have been unnerved by a coupla dozen students making, allegedly, vague, as-yet-undocumented threats...
I mean, these are Canadians we're talking about here. And we don't have all the details. Mebbe they had hockey sticks with 'em. That woulda made me nervous, anyway...
(/Besides which, she has such a low tolerance for talk of violence, she does, that delicate flower...)
mfd52:
OPIRG is not the University of Ottawa-- and what they did was not to prevent a talk but to decline to sponsor the talk. You can trust the (reliably neocon) National Post to spin anything they can into an attack on Israel. But no one is obligated to sponsor talks they don't care to sponsor, and freedom of speech includes the freedom to criticize and protest. As for Canada being 'Ann Coulter free', she's still going to talk at the U of C in Calgary, and her entire trip is being funded by a libertarian, right-wing group; personally, I oppose giving her space at a University to spew her venom-- a crazed, evolution (and global-warming) denying eliminationist who's in it for the money deserves no pulpit in any academic community. Finally, Ann Coulter crying about 'freedom of speech' is pretty rich-- this is a woman who's 'not a big fan of the first amendment', and who always enthusiastically supports oppression, so long as it's oppression of people she doesn't like.
Bryson,
You are right, no one has to give funds to who they dont want. And we can ask why. "relationship to apartheid Israel" is the reason OPIRG declined funds to the Ugandan citizen who happens to be Jewish. That was their own words, not anti-Israel spin.
As far as Ann not being a fan of free speech, she's wrong, and a hypocrite too. So what? We still should be concerned when civilized nations such as Canada turn away from it. Its not as if this is the only instance of it in Canada. See Mark Steyn, Ezra Levant, Macleans magazine, the comedian I posted in #189 etc, etc.
It appears to me that the Canadian legislature bans incitements of violence and violent action.
Call me when you have a real freedom of speech issue. I don't have an opinion on those bans. I nothing them. And nobody here should pretend that those laws are a slippery slope; It's exactly as stupid as saying "Gay Marriage, therefore Bestiality". At least, don't just make assertions. Back that shit up, and I'll make an opinion real quick.
This is such a catch-22. When I read about Coulter's antics, I'm immediately infuriated. My desire to comment is overwhelming, yet I know that the only way to "beat" Coulter is to ignore her. I mean, her business model is brilliant...sleazy, but brilliant. First, she knows that there's a relatively large group of nutjobs out there ready to gobble up her small-minded propaganda and pass it along to their nutjob friends. Secondly, she knows that there is also a relatively large group of people who truly despise the product she's selling. Unfortunately, her rhetoric is often too grossy misinformed to leave alone. So, she gets more free advertising from the folks seeking to shut her up, because they won't shut up about her. They simply help spread her message or at a minimum give her more exposure. And then, she'll fade away for a while. But, as soon as she has a new book to sell, she simply grabs some airtime from FOX or the like and says something idiotic. This incites some short term interest in her and consequently she enjoys a nice little spike in book sales. She's a self-serving lowlife of the highest magnitude. And the truth is, as long as there are ignorant people out there buying into the politics of hate and bigotry, there will be Ann Coulters out there ready to sell it to them. Ignorance is the real culprit here. Ann Coulter is just the current hag de jour helping to keep it blissful.
Long live the brave and the free (from listening to Ann Coulter) in Canada.
the only thing "free" is your mind.
it's there, on the ground, you having let it slip entirely out of your skull cavity.
pick it up on your way out, eh?
it's making a mess on the floor.
I do have one, for the record. I don't much like them. Wasn't planning on advocating genocide anytime soon, but honestly, the provision regarding 'inciting hatred' does strike me as potentially unreasonably broad. In honesty, to my knowledge, it hasn't caused a whole heap of trouble as yet, but I'm not sure how much comfort that is.
None of that, however, makes Ms. Coulter's rank dishonesty about what actually happened one bit more defensible, mind you. She's still so full of shit ya can smell it worldwide.
So: separate issue. Just because you happen to think that particular law isn't an especially good one is no reason to give her deliberate and flagrant deception a pass. To the contrary: her dishonesty dreadfully muddies people's notions of exactly what the law does, which really ain't much help, here, either.
Same with deliberately parroting and spreading such distortions, obviously.
(/And as long as we're rabbiting on about disturbing limitations to freedom of speech, do let's also talk about the US' 'free speech zones'...)
I noticed that, when I was reading through (I was tired of getting vague answers, so I just read it from the Canadian statutes). I can see cause for concern with 319.2, and I would support a measure to remove 319.2. The overbreadth seems a bit much, even with the various defenses including Good Faith. However, I would nothing 319.1, or 318. Those laws struck me as fairly specific and neither particularly objectionable, nor particularly desirable.
Re #207, I'd consider that a fairly sensible measure. The provisions preventing explicit solicitations of violence are fine, in my mind. We already have laws against the uttering of threats, anyway, and much more established ones--by the way, a technical limitation to 'freedom of speech' almost no one whines about--so it's hardly an unreasonably addition to say you can't solicit violence either.
Apologies, I lost a word in there.
should have read:
For all of the whining about infringement upon freedom of speech by the hate speech laws here in Canada, it should be noted that application of said laws is vanishingly rare.
The laws actually predate our constitution, which in its most recent iteration is 28 years old. In that time there has been a single test of one of the three laws against the constitution, and it was upheld. The other two have never been brought to the Supreme Court.
Personally, I suspect that Houle, when writing to Coulter about the laws, was attempting to ensure that she had adequate protection to keep her ass out of jail. I expect it was a sincere gesture on the part of a sincere person... just the sort of person Coulter loves to abuse.
I think that anyone who comes to my country and proceeds to say that women are stupid and should be stripped of the right to vote, that Muslims are terrorists and should be treated as such, and other such insane crap, well, they should get the full force of the law of my country. Constitutional challenge? You go for it, you weirdo.
Oh, and "I don't think any Muslim has been treated this badly?" Seriously? Guantanamo Bay? Omar Khadr? No? Not familiar?
What an idiot.
legistech @187
Firstly, I didn't say that other standards were 'better', simply that different standards adopted by democratic governments deserved respect...
however, since you asked, I would say that Canadian law is actually better, as it explicitly sets out the responsibilities as well as the rights in terms of free speech. Simply saying you have the unqualified right to do something is a step towards anarchy.
I personally prefer a society where rights and responsibilities are balanced, and thus I find systems where those responsibilities are formally encoded in the legal system (along with the individuals rights) better. I would add that only formalising responsibilities is inferior to both.
Yes, and that quote proves what? Someone said something sexist about Ann Coulter, and therefore the protest in Ottawa occurred because Ann Coulter has a vagina? If that's your "obvious reply" you have no business weighing in on my intelligence, you fucking pissant.
To be clear I'm not a fan of the sexist things sometimes said of Ann Coulter. If, however, you see her as the victim of mysogyny by way of the protest, as History Punk clearly did @ #9 when he said
then I kinda think you've been living under a rock for most of your life. In case that name isn't familiar to you, here are some quotes.
"My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times Building."
"I think [women] should be armed but should not vote. No, they all have to give up their vote, not just, you know, the lady clapping and me. The problem with women voting -- and your Communists will back me up on this -- is that, you know, women have no capacity to understand how money is earned. They have a lot of ideas on how to spend it. And when they take these polls, it's always more money on education, more money on child care, more money on day care."
"If Hitler hadn't turned against their beloved Stalin, liberals would have stuck by him, too."
http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Ann_Coulter
Go ahead and argue that this is misunderstood genius, and that people are just deranged by the sight of a successful woman if you want. I'll still hold that the kind of deplorable shit that comes out of that woman's mouth is worthy of criticism and protest.
(In case you aren't capable of reasonably defining criticism let me expressly disavow speculation about the structure of her sex organs)
@#192
So your saying Jyllands-Posten is a xenophobic rag because they published a cartoon with the tag: "Jyllands-Posten is a racist rag", and they did this with intention of bashing immigrants. Oh, kay...?
mfd512--
Sorry to say I know the perps here. Levant is a habitual nuisance litigator, eager to suppress the free speech of anyone he doesn't like. As a lawyer, all it costs him is time. Maclean's is a neo-con rag. Mark Steyn is... Mark Steyn (and that's enough said). Further, their issues and complaints have nothing to do with the hate-speech restrictions-- they've had difficulty with human rights tribunals (provincial operations without the restrictions that criminal standards of proof etc. require). I think the dust-up over the Danish cartoons was shameful for both sides (stupid cartoons, published for bad reasons, but stupider still to refuse or penalize their publication), and the abuse of our human rights legislation was unfortunate. But Ezra knows all about how to abuse legislation-- he just doesn't like it when someone else does it to him. So my outrage and sympathy, in an age of FOI harassment of climate scientists and corporate lawsuits meant to silence critics, are pretty muted here.
No, the JP is a racist, xenophobic rag because it prints stupid shit like "Arabs are criminals", and its editorialists praise politicians who call for violence on the immigrant population. Not to mention the positive remarks at things like removing their legal protections from deportation, or calling a peaceful demonstration a riot.
Oh, and let's not forget that when called out on their racism, they claimed their freedom of speech was being limited (It isn't; Facing the social consequences of your statements is NOT having freedom of speech impinged. LEGAL consequences is.), and they called for the infamous cartoons to show that they aren't afraid!
To their credit, they printed the one or two that insulted them, but you don't fucking know what you're talking about, because you don't fucking know Danish Politics. But hey, I'm glad you opened you opened your mouth on it anyway.