A delegate to the Republican party in Utah had a marvelous http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_12228215">resolution for his party.
Don Larsen, a Springville delegate, offered the resolution, titled "Resolution opposing the Hate America anti-Christian Open Borders cabal," warning delegates that an "invisible government" comprised of left-wing foundations was pumping money into the Democratic Party to push for looser immigration laws and anti-family legislation.
Larsen said Democrats get most of the votes cast by illegal immigrants and people in dysfunctional families.
But it's not the Democrats who are behind this strategy, Larsen said. It's the devil.
"Satan's ultimate goal is to destroy the family," Larsen said, "and these people are playing a leading part in it."
Larsen's resolution contained quotes from the New Testament on the battle between good and evil. The copy of the resolution handed to delegates stated it "fulfills scriptural prophecies about our times."
I am not at all surprised — it's not just Utah, but these kinds of loons are everywhere in this country, and they do not get laughed off the podium when they bring up these claims. I am impressed that they Utah GOP actually managed to reject the resolution … but it was for entirely pragmatic reasons. They said it would cost them Latino votes if they openly professed that Satan was shipping immigrants to America. They didn't say that that was crazy or wrong, just that it might hurt their image with Latinos. That also didn't surprise me.
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The Christian Right fails again...
I didn't know Richard Ramirez was a Democrat.
:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
That whacky devil!
If you ever wanted evidence that democracy is a bad idea... Voters basing their votes on belief in "teh debbil" votes count the same as a rationalist's?? Travesty.
Here's the core of Utah's "family values" problem: http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=4403731&page=1
Satan's ultimate goal is to destroy the family? We'll have none of that. I thought his god was powerful enough to prevent the devil from wreaking such havoc. Time to call in the tooth fairy to kick Satan's ass. And then the tooth fairy can kick this god out and take over. The mind reels.
Now the US electoral system was always a little mysterious to me, but how do illegal immigrants vote?
Of course, Larsen is formally correct if illegal immigrants don't vote - I'm sure the Democrats get almost 100% of those zero votes.
Why do some folks need frame every struggle they find themselves in as some sort of cosmic war for the souls of all of humanity? If you don't like the Democrats, just say so. You are allowed to disagree with people even if they are not part of a demonic conspiracy to destroy America.
And in unrelated except by inanity, the "hand of god" has manifested itself in Idaho and is now for sale on Ebay. Sorry, pc challenged self is unable to link properly, but if you want to do the hard work ... http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/04/26/idaho.rock.auction/index.html
cpsmith:
Sure. But everyone disagreeing with Christians must be part of a demonic conspiracy.
When did "Latino" and "Christian" become mutually exclusive?
It's a miracle ... pc-challenged self could not link but the all mighty (Bill Gates?) did it for me.
I don't get it. If the devil is trying to destroy families in the US, why would he ship Latinos here? I understand that family is pretty important to them. Unleeeesss, the devil isn't just trying to destroy WHITE families, is he?! Man, he's tricky.
Wouldn't it be great if people in the audience at these spectacles just started giggling uncontrollably when this sort of idiocy was introduced? And then that got posted on YouTube? And went viral? If *I* were the devil, I'd arrange something like that.
Nothing like religion to make you paranoid, fearful, and delusional.... and a perfect fit for public service, it seems.
I wrote:
Duhh, and suddenly the light dawns...
I really need to go buy an English-Racist dictionary.
"Don Larsen, a Springville delegate, offered the resolution, titled "Resolution opposing the Hate America anti-Christian Open Borders cabal," warning delegates that an "invisible government" comprised of left-wing foundations was pumping money into the Democratic Party to push for looser immigration laws and anti-family legislation."
Man, that must be the good thing about having a belief system that incorporates some "evil" being. You can make up any wacky conspiracy theory you want to further your ideology with the built-in motive that the enemy conspirators must be "evil".
"They're trying to destroy the American Family!"
"And why, pray tell, do they want to do that, exactly?"
"They're EVIL!"
Us poor lefties have always gotta look for the money trail.
I'm confused. If latino immigrants are doing the work of the devil, why do Republicans want their votes?
*Preacher voice* "Reject Satan in all his deeeeemonic forms! Except in the ballot box! Hallelujah!"
1. Based on the intellectual rigor I see displayed in this blog, I can see why you're only an Associate Professor at age 60 (my guess based on your photo, which itself is probably out-dated).
2. Do you ever worry that you're creating a hostile environment for any conservative students unforunate enough to take one of your classes?
3. What do you consider the primary source of your intense egomania?
4. I'll pray for you. :)
Mom! Dad! It's evil! Don't vote for it!
Robert writes:
I'll pray for you. :)
ROFL. Can I haz prayurs too plz?
Time Bandits... awesome.
What kind of god do these people worship that is such a pussy that it can't even keep ol' scratch himself from rigging an election? I mean, a few earthquakes in California and a hurricane or two along the eastern seaboard and grandpa would have been sittin' at god's right hand like George did. For the almighty, you'd think it would of be a simple snap of the fingers. But, nooooooo. Instead, some rube legislator from a shitstain of a town in mormon-stan has to carry the load himself.
Its almost as if their entire religion was made up or something by a two-bit huckster.
According to xians, Mormons aren't xians and Utah isn't a majority xian state. Or they are serious heretics. The LDS god lives on Kolob, is named Adam, has a fleet of wives, and spends most of his time fu...ummm, reproducing.
The devil is jesus's brother. So are we all.
The Mormons want so badly to be accepted into the fundie swamp while they lump them in with the catholics and are, in any event, on the downhill slide.
Robert, what do you consider the primary source of your God Delusion? egomania too perhaps? the conception that the master of the universe (i.e. your God) ACTUALLY LISTENS to you when you pray (i.e. it ain't got nothing better to do), or that it feels you are too important to disappear when you die, so it will keep you alive in Heaven for eternity? etc etc
Marcus, I would have pray for you only if you had phrased your attempted lolspeak request correctly:
NOT: "ROFL. Can I haz prayurs too plz?"
BUT: "ROFL i can has prayurz too plz?"
Comments are more amusing when delivered correctly. :-/
2. Do you ever worry that you're creating a hostile environment for any conservative students unforunate enough to take one of your classes?
How nice, we have a follower of David Horowitz posting here.
Robert, the hit and run troll, we know enough about trolls like you to know that I'll pray for you! means Fuck You!, even if it is delivered with a smiley face.
Your concern has been noted and place in the proper receptacle.
Slacktivist captures some of the insane logic of the Repubs:
http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slacktivist/2009/04/the-burkhalogic-of-n…
The problem with the Republican Party these days is that all the moderates have abandoned ship. They've started calling themselves "independents", and the only people remaining in the Republican Party are the far-right crazies.
I have to wonder just where the Republican Party thinks it's going. Their support among minority populations like Latinos is plummeting (not to mention blacks who vote Democratic with near unanimity). And they've also lost all credibility with my generation, the younger voters, who obviously are going to have a huge impact on future elections.
The GOP is hopelessly stuck in the past. They think we younger voters are actually going to respond to their hatred of gays, non-Christians, and foreigners. They think they can persuade us by incessantly clamoring for lower taxes on the rich, lower regulations for corporations, and fierce opposition to the government spending money on anything but the military. They think we'll vote for them if they just scream loud enough that Democrats are Muslims, Satanists, terrorist sympathizers, or socialists (and by implication, communists and therefore totalitarians).
The GOP has two options: they have to either update their message to get with the times, or else go the way of the Whigs.
Which was then flushed.
@ robert... pray for intellectual rigor
I would just like it to be known that not all people named Don are whack-a-loons. (Some of us are just ordinary nut jobs).
DaveY: I'm sorry you weren't hugged enough as a child. *Sending prayer hug...now!*
Janine, Ignorant Slut: I applaud the self-awareness evident in your name.
The EPA isn't going to be happy. It should have been placed in a hazardous waste disposal receptacle and trucked to an incinerator.
Robert @ 19
Answers to your questions
#3 The primary source is our lack of irrational beliefs which unclutters the mind of nonsense and therefore makes us smarter than you. It's not egomania, but just plain self-awareness of the obvious.
#4 I am missing an arm. Will you pray for regeneration of this arm and then when it grows back will you have your god appear to me so that I can thank it?
Robert, politics has no place in PZ's science classes, therefore politics is never mentioned. He doesn't require creationists to give up the idea (it's a religious idea, not a scientific one, so it has no place it his classes either), just learn enough evolution to pass his tests. You are the one with the prejudices. And it shows.
Janine, Ignorant Slut: I applaud the self-awareness evident in your name.
How very typical of a self righteous troll, thinking it understand meaning when it has no context.
But, please, explain to all of us how you know that PZ creates a hostile environment for the conservative students in his class? Links to Discover The Network do not count.
Robert
Your prayers will be recycled as crackers, saturated with urine, glazed with feces, and then delivered to chuches as "honey coated with lemony taste".
And yet, people take offense when I wonder why Conservative Christian Americans use the term "Liberal" in the same sort of context Nazi officials used the term "Jew"
My dear Holbach:
(Comment #38) "Your prayers will be recycled as crackers, saturated with urine, glazed with feces, and then delivered to chuches as 'honey coated with lemony taste'."
It looks like somebody's parents have let him have a bit too much free-time on the Internet! After all, it would be insulting for me to presume that anyone over the age of twelve would use such toilet humor as "we're going to send you poop and pee crackers!!!"
I am relieved, however, that the offending snacks will be sent to "chuches" rather than churches as--to my knowledge--"chuches" no not exist.
You ever notice how so many Christians like Robert inevitably use the term "I'll pray for you" as an alternative for profanity?
I don't understand the USA at all. Such noble founding ideals. And yet, such... ...well... ...I just don't get it.
Robert, ever loving troll, please answer how you know that PZ creates a hostile environment for conservative students? And just for the hell of it, why do you think that conservatives should feel threatened by the theory of evolution?
Shut your pray-hole, you prayin' mother-prayer, or I'll pray for yo' sister until she's like, "Oh god oh God oh GOD OH GOD!"
[joke shamelessly recycled from the heyday of Crackergate]
" Marcus Ranum | April 26, 2009 12:25 PM
Robert writes:
I'll pray for you. :)
ROFL. Can I haz prayurs too plz?"
I wantz teh curzsz chistians better atz teh curzsez.
Robert, as a Christian I am ashamed of your behavior here.
My friend Kate just showed me your comments and has been kind enough to allow me the use of her computer to respond:
You are being dishonest and rude. I think you owe Mr. Myers an apology for your behavior. You have made claims about the environment in Myers' classroom without providing any evidence to back up those claims. This is not how intelligent, rational people discuss such important issues.
I just hope that one day, Robert, you really embrace the loving spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ and truly accept Him into your heart. I pray that you will be freed from the hate and fear that have taken root in your soul, so that you may walk with Jesus in the light.
Robert @19
Now there is rigor, too lazy or too stupid to look the age of PZ up in a few easy clicks. Ever postulate you must be guessing at all else.
So Robert, what do you think? Is the Democratic party in league with Satan? And if so, what should be done about it?
My dearest Janine, self-proclaimed Queen of Assholes, Vilest of Bitches, and most Ignorant of Sluts:
1. Take some solace in the fact that you're the best at all endeavors you choose to undertake, at least based on your self-given titles.
2. "please answer how you know that PZ creates a hostile environment for conservative students?" I didn't say that I knew he created such an environment for certain but rather asked whether he worried that he was creating an atmosphere of hostility for conservatives. For example, a student could read PZ's blog and realize that PZ thinks the student is stupid, foolish, and bad because PZ thinks the student's party (Republicans) is stupid, foolish, and bad. By the way, that sentence of yours didn't need a "?" as it was not a question, but a request.
3. "And just for the hell of it, why do you think that conservatives should feel threatened by the theory of evolution?" I don't. As a Roman Catholic, the Pope noted that evolution by natural selection was a valid belief. Conservatives should, however, feel threatened by people who are willing to write them off as idiots just because they practice religion, as most Americans do.
Robert @ 40
Just think, you can have your local nonsense mongerer, your priest, turn those "poop and pee" crackers into the "real" body and blood of your imaginary god. Oh how awful my misspelling "churches", and not noticing it until after posting. Perhaps your prayers can help me with correct spelling; a simple prayer for a simple letter in a word that is the embodiment of irrationality.
As for toilet humor, I regard religion as lower than toilet humor. Even toilet humor can at times be funny, whereas religion is nothing of the sort, only insane pathos.
And if you were to know me, your endearing "dear" would be nothing you would assign to me.
yawn
Yet another in a long line of people who don't realize that this blog is not his classroom
What do you consider the primary source of your intense idiocy? I've got a guess.
Yes and PZ will be happy to Hula Hoop for you. You'll both be accomplishing the same thing, nothing. Except PZ will have mad kids party skills.
And a hearty “Fuck you!” to you too.
— the traditional Pharyngula reply.
Robert "stick up my butt on petty details", you didn't put your name in #49. The fact that you can't see PZ acting as a consumate professional in the classroom says you are an idiot. As long as PZ keeps his private life (Pharyngula) out of the classroom, he is doing what is required. We think all believers have a hole in their heads since there is utterly no physical evidence for god, be it Yahweh or Thor. And belief without evidence is delusions. This makes all believers delusional.
Janine, you forgot gruesome.
2. "please answer how you know that PZ creates a hostile environment for conservative students?" I didn't say that I knew he created such an environment for certain but rather asked whether he worried that he was creating an atmosphere of hostility for conservatives. For example, a student could read PZ's blog and realize that PZ thinks the student is stupid, foolish, and bad because PZ thinks the student's party (Republicans) is stupid, foolish, and bad. By the way, that sentence of yours didn't need a "?" as it was not a question, but a request.
Alright you weaselly little troll, I will take the same liberties with asking baseless question and expect you to take it seriously.
Robert, I am concerned that you are still beating your wife.
Understand, I have the same evidence to speculate about this as you have to speculate about the hostile environment of PZ's class room.
Patricia, I never used that term for a title until now. Off topic but kind of on target; yesterday the Rookie stated on Ed Brayton's blog about how he would love to find a woman of Sarh Palin's moral standing so that they could get married and she can carry his children. The Rookie is all sorts of creepy.
Janine, Robert assumes that Professor Myers creates a hostile environment because Prof. Myers is a self-professed, liberal atheist monster, and that Robert assumes that Prof. Monsters, I mean Myers dismisses people because they practice religious, as opposed to dismissing them because they allow their faith to impair or cripple their ability to think (critically or not).
Robert, as the snow is finally gone here in New England, I shall dance naked under the oaks for you at the next full moon. I am sure that will enlighten you more than your prayers will enlighten us.
Now, are you capable of reasoned discussion?
Why did you come here?
Thank you kindly.
Robert would be wasting his time beating his wife, but now beating his son is entirely worth while, and a good catholic shouldn't be wasting child beating time here.
Proverbs 13:24
Annika Noble @ 46
As an atheist, I am neither ashamed nor tolerant of you and Robert as you both embrace the insanity of religion, he with the vociferous banality and stupidity of it, and you with your benign offense at his forceful pandering for responses from us and deigned to make you both appear as irrational on any level. He prays for us; why don't you pray for him and perhaps he will be as gentle as you are in your delusions.
Darn it, this spoils the surprise media event planned for the official debut of the HAaCOB Cabal!
Now what are we going to do with all these quesadillas and pentagrammed-elephant piñatas?
Stanton, I am aware of why Robert asked his baseless question. I have seen this species of troll too often. I just like to have trolls like him explain themselves. There can be great comedy to be had when they do so.
One wonders if Robert would ask the same question of conservative minded educators, but I somehow doubt it.
Oh and Robert? I prayed for your mom last night. She's still ugly.
Robert the mindless xian zombie is too easy.
What is the evidence that fundie Death Cult zombies have created a "hostile environment for normal people."
1. The Department of Homeland Security just released a report on threats to the USA. Right wing extremists were at the top of the list. Xian terrorists have been an ongoing problem in the USA for decades.
2. Rush Limbaugh, Fox news, Palin, Bachmann, Coulter, and the rest of the wingnuts are all part of the Hate radio and TV establishment.
3. The fundies are always anti-gay, atheist, scientist, MD, Democrat, and often anti-catholic, anti-other religion, and anti-nonwhite.
4. During their 8 years of power they nearly destroyed the US and world economies while leaving piles of bodies in a pointless war in Iraq. Add in the torture and my 2 friends killed in Iraq as icing on that cake. Actions speak louder than words.
5. There is a backlash against the fundies according to the polls. The majority of the American people are sick and tired of them. That is why Obama is president.
Are we wary and mistrustful of your lot? You betcha. Based on bitter experience it is just common sense and survival instincts.
Janine, Palin would be a good match for ol' Petey. They're both braindead. A Petey, Jr. would probably turn out like Walton.
Robert
Exposure to smug, ignorant christians at an early age, is my guess. It's usually best to learn from the experts.
Are conservatives so uncertain of the validity of their beliefs that they fear to tread into an arena where they can be challenged by opposing viewpoints?
Or do you fear that a liberal professor cannot possibly be fair to conservative students? Unless I can see evidence to the contrary, I don't believe that Professor Myers grades the work of his biology students on the basis of their agreement, or lack thereof, with atheism and Marxism.
Then again, no evidence is needed in Conjecture Land.
That could conceivably happen. However, assuming PZ doesn't talk about politics in his classroom (and I'd be astounded is he did) it would be both silly of the student and the student's own problem.
It would be silly because there is nothing threatening about the existence of someone who thinks ones views foolish; for each of us there exist many people who think our views foolish.
It would be the student's problem (and not PZ's) because it is unreasonable to expect someone to take into account the hypothetical psychological quirks of a hypothetically over-sensitive, conservative student.
Furthermore the consequences of putting the responsibility for such hypothetical offence on the teacher are absurd. It would mean a teacher could never (speaking for herself and on her time) express a negative opinion of any idea (from Stalinism to Satanism to Salazarism) for fear that a hypothetical follower of that idea may over-react in the bizarre way you mention to being taught by someone who disapproves of their beliefs. Short of saying teachers simply don't have free-speech rights in their own time, nothing could stop such a whiny ideologue of a student (which your uncomfortable Republican must be) being upset by the presence of an ideological opponent teaching them.
Fun fact:
Utah has the highest rate of people being treated with antidepressants in the country: about 18% of their population.
For comparison, lowest is New York with 9.1%.
It's probably because Satan is destroying their perfectly functional families.
Ah, Me. I must confess, Don Larsen has Me dead to rights. I am indeed seeking to undermine American families with My insidious support for illegal immigration and illegitimate children. My ultimate plan is indeed to destroy "the family". Divide and conquer!
I also have a fleet of black helicopters and insidious, Beast-marked minions to perform my nefarious bidding. Not to mention mind-control satellites and physics-violating craft that look like UFOs.
Fear Me, America. I'm coming to get you. Fear Me!
Muahahahaha!
Obligatory cheap shot:
Families? Which ones? Every married man has, on average, half a dozen of them to choose from...
/end obligatory cheap shot
"fulfills scriptural prophecies about our times."
PROTIP:How to convince people you're crazy. Randomly end some of your sentences with: "according to the prophesy."
Eh, they can't say they voted against it because he's nucking futs, that'd cost them the religious loony vote on whcih they've come to rely. What they did was deal with the problem in the way that ensured they'd get the most and lose the fewest votes, what else would you expect from any politician?
But Satan, I thought we were supposed to keep it SECRET!!!
Phooey, undermined by a deity again.
To heck with it then. No child sacrifice for you tonight. I'm keeping the dead babies for myself from now on.
Justin @ 63
Come now, I'm sure he can see the difference in his mother's visage, as prayers from any source will definitely be answered. Any ugliness his mother had has been transfered to his face as another supplicant's prayers must surely have been answered.
Levi in NY, I loved your assessment of younger voters as too savvy to fall for the GOP's line. I assume that means you're surrounded by intelligent, politically sophisticated young people.
Unfortunately, I think you might be overestimating their numbers. When I was a young voter in the late '70s, all of my friends were liberal. We supported women's rights, minority rights, all sorts of liberal positions, and we supported each other in these values. We thought we were a generation of change.
Then I left college, and ran into all sorts of people my age who were incredibly conservative. I was dumbfounded. I truly thought that my experience had been almost universal. But the country is full of pockets of deep, unsophisticated conservatism--and their children are taught not to analyze, not to think for themselves.
I'm telling you this, Levi, because I think you, too, will be surprised at how many people your age accept the GOP myths unquestioningly. You will have to fight for your principles, undoubtedly for the rest of your life. But they're certainly worth fighting for!
Too over-the-top. Tone it down a bit, will You?
If I had mind-control satellites for real, I would probably use them to make people spontaneously dance the Macarena in inappropriate situations. And/or fight each other with flashy kung-fu moves. And/or fling their own poo at each other.
You'll just have to settle for whispering in peoples' ears, just like You've always done.
And you call Me too over-the-top...
"Come now, I'm sure he can see the difference in his mother's visage, as prayers from any source will definitely be answered. Any ugliness his mother had has been transfered to his face as another supplicant's prayers must surely have been answered."
Hee! I'm sure you are correct Holbach, if only through the miracle of genetics.
Tough. Unless suddenly you think it's better if Professors express no opinions on anything, at any point in their lives, that doesn't relate to their subject. I've had a couple (hard-core)conservative professors, one with a website linking to Ann Coulter and tons of writing criticizing liberals as effete, treasonous idiots. The other actually brought up Catholic theology in a Roman Republic class, ascribing all kinds of events to original sin, and saying that people who didn't believe were more likely to commit genocide.
And guess what? I lived. Yes, I lived through it, and it wasn't that big of a deal.
Strange how the effete liberals are the ones who can actually deal with criticism, but the big strong SuperPatriots can't.
Why hasn't this man been locked away - he's clearly delusional?
god @ 77
Ha! Or use your crackers to absorb overflowing septic tanks.
Sheesh, what a crummy troll.
Here I was hoping to see a good back-and-forth, but the hit-and-run troll has left the building after jerking off a few snide and smug comments - as usual. Whatever happened to the better quality of trolls these days? I guess recession is hitting Pharyngula too...
May I humbly suggest Blake Stacey's #44 FTW (again)?
I'm confused here. If it fulfills scriptural prophecies, isn't that a good thing? After all, as we all know here, scriptural prophecies are absolutely infallible, never been proved wrong. These guys should want Satan to follow through with his vile plan, so that Jebus can come visit us again... or are they as confused as me?
We'll have to call TrollsRUs™ and tell them they need to put some stamina training back into their program.
Robert, #49
In am also an un-excommunicated (yet) catholic. I would like to ask you some questions. Please answer them clearly and you'll get a cookie (don't worry, it won't be consecrated, unless that's your kink).
So you're not threatened by evolution (and I suppose you accept it) because the pope, a Homo sapiens, a mammal, a primate just like you and me said it. This 98% chimpanzee says some astoundingly EVIDENT truth, and you accept it just because he tells you you are allowed to?
And since you posted in this thread. What do you think about Latino immigrants in the U.S.? What specifically in PZ's post do you disagree with? Do you agree with ANYTHING of the Republicans' position on this matter?
Dear Holbach,
I don't understand your comment. I did say I was praying for Robert, and I am praying for him.
I am neither stupid, nor rude and would never presume to pray for someone who does not wish it. I would not offer an atheist my prayers, as I understand that they not only do not share in my beliefs, but some atheists find it insulting, patronizing or simply silly.
I commented because I saw someone professing to be Christian acting in a very unchristian manner, and wanted him to know that I, as another Christian, am praying to our Saviour Jesus to take his hate away.
Kate had assured me that I was allowed to comment here and that I could speak freely to Robert as one Christian to another.
I apologize to the commenters here and to PZ Myers if we were mistaken about that.
No shit!
All he did was critique spelling and punctuation!
Is that all you got Robert?
Weak.
Not even worth the popcorn.
I was playing baseball a number of years ago, and our third base coach started doing the Macarena instead of the signs.
We fined him.
Naw, if you believe something really weird by yourself it is delusional nonsense.
If you believe something really weird with lots of similar people it is a religion.
By Utah LDS standards he might be considered a middle of the road moderate.
God @77,
If fighting and flinging poo are your objectives, I think you must already have those satellites.
By the way, is there ever an appropriate time for the Macarena?
I'm feeling an entirely impolite surge of Schadenfreude every time I see another part of the GOP go off the deep end. However, I suspect that by the time the next elections come around, I'll stop laughing, because their voters are equally insane and now even more driven to take over.
Let's see. Most Mexicans are Roman Catholics, right?
This atheist finds it insulting, patronizing, and simply silly.
Someone is pretending to be me in a couple of comments over on whitecoatunderground. I can take trolls and honest criticism. They are the lowest of the low.
Howabout genuinely trying to answer honest, non-side-taking questions.
Isn't there some way to out that scum sucker?
Following the success of some of his satirical albums and songs (The Vatican Rag, I got it from Agnes, National Brotherhood Week etc), satirist and mathematician Tom Leher said that students signed up for his classes expecting him to entertain them with a song and his piano and were shocked to discover that he expected them to learn math. (He did do a song titled: New Math).
I would bet that PZ has had some of the same problems (except for the whole piano thing).
In the words of Mr. Leher:
“Oh, the white folks hate the black folks
and the black folks hate the white folks.
All of my folks hate all of your folks
and everybody hates the Jews.”
Those who immigrate often change churches. For example, in our area, the local RC churches tended to be dominated by immigrants from 30-50 years ago, and did not look kindly on the new parishioners. So they went looking for a better welcome. The Episcopal church membership is up, and the signs of many other protestant churches in the area are partially/totally in Spanish.
Dammit, Annika. Now you remind me: I neglected to request a commenting authorization from an accredited authority! Should I leave until I am told it's alright for me to come back?
Hate and fear has taken root in your soul! Yes it has, yes it has. You know, soul... as in animism and totem poles and such. Ur soul is kinda like what ur thinking, or ur memories, or ur personality or something. Anyway, as an authority on randomly belittling people I can authoritatively state that your soul is full of fear and hate... and you masturbate to midget porn. You must embrace the loving spirit of the Great Buffalo and truly accept His magic penis into ur heart and in ur soul. And accept the Great Buffalo's best friend forever (B.F.F.) Jebus. Yeah, the Great Buffalo and the LORD B.F.F. Jebus... super-double LORDY... like a feudal LORD from the Middle Ages who owns the property and ur a peasant farmer... peonage... you worthless peon! Jebus is ur imaginary B.F.F. he's not gonna help you rebuild a carburetor or go to the movies with you but he's still ur B.F.F. Supercalifragilistic LORDY lord dabbit! Verily, I say unto thee; walk with the LORD in the crimson light of ultimate mystery. Be both one and twain with the Universe (note how I capitalized "universe"). The crimson force field envelopes one's SOUL but if you do not accept the LORDY lord into your heart you will die without honor and never attain the 24th level of awareness. Indeed. 24 is the gateway to heroic salvation! Oh and I'll PRAY for you which means I'm being really condescending and in my religiously snarky passive-aggressive way actually saying "fukk you!" for making me cry. My older brother made me cry when he told me that Santa wasn't real and ur being as big a dikk for making me cry now. How dare you say the crimson force field is just make-believe! You must respect my religion. It is ur job to humor me as if I were a little child and play along with my make-believe imaginary game you atheist goat-butt lickers!
P.S.: I'm really sick of these people. They are all so obnoxious.
No need to apologize even a little bit. Anyone is allowed to comment.
Kate had assured me that I was allowed to comment here and that I could speak freely to Robert as one Christian to another.
I apologize to the commenters here and to PZ Myers if we were mistaken about that.
You weren't mistaken, at least for most senses of "allowed". PZ has said clearly he welcomes Christians and other religious believers if they behave well (I think even libertarians are welcome, if they behave well). Most commenters feel likewise, but if something strikes us as stupid, we will tend to say so (against "orthodox Pharyngulites" as much as against anyone else).
Holbach yells at people, especially if the profess a religion. It's what he does. Don't take it as a sign you aren't welcome to post, but do bear in mind that Holbach yelling is a risk you run (or y'know, killfile him)
Wait
There's something wrong with that?
Annika Noble @ 88
You seem to overlook that the majority of us here are atheists or otherwise and that we do not subscribe to your totally religious views or opinions.
Now think about this. If, as you say, you would not pray for atheists as they would find it silly, insulting or patronizing, you imply that perhaps your prayers will not be accepted by your god for the very nature of the recipients unbelief, and yet those same prayers will be heard and answered if offered to the religious faithful? Does your god make such a definitve distinction in the light that it has made both recipients and is powerful enough to override a simple act of unbelief by showing it's magnanmity to all?
I can readily understand that you are religious because of several factors, but I cannot accept the fact that you find it difficult to comprehend that we do not ascribe all that we see and know to an imaginary being formed in the brains of humans as a question to how it all started. Those very same brains have reasoned through logic and blatant visible facts that this imaginary god is human inspired and nothing more.
You appear to be a very moral and decent individual whose only fault is not rationally questioning your acquired religious faith and looking at and reading the faithless opinions such as offered here in reasonable and extreme examples. I have no intention of dissuading you from your religious embrace, but only have you understand and accept ideas different from your own.
@ 78
You'll just have to settle for whispering in peoples' ears, just like You've always done.
No, I open up a deep and influential conversation with somebody who contacts me using the built-in transponder I put in Adam's hand. Except, nobody can directly interpret anything I say anymore...C'est triste.
And you call Me too over-the-top...
Well...you're just EVIL!!! You stabbed me in the back you traitor! I'm still gonna come down to my hot spa and throw you out of there! And stop stealing my holy water! I was gonna use that in my Gatorade!
Also, the Latinos were my fault, it's just that lots of stuff is hitting the fan in Mexico and South America, and I graced America, so there's lots of cool stuff there, you know, the American Dream.
"Kate had assured me that I was allowed to comment here and that I could speak freely to Robert as one Christian to another."
Perfectly all right. We here are quite fond of hoisting Christian trolls by their own petards (since many of us know more about Christianity and the Bible than the trolls do), and having an actual Christian do it just adds authenticity. :)
Susan@14
This for me is the ultimate irony; they haven't a clue how many latinos are catholic or recent christian converts and how conservative they can be on issues of 'family values" (I say this as a Mexican American with a wacko Rush family).Undoubtedly we're not the 'right' kind of conservative voter to them and that type of thinking is one more nail in their coffin,politically.Let's hope they don't figure it out.
Ms. Noble at #88, while you are at it perhaps a little bit of reading comprehension won't be remiss. This is what Holbach said:
So when you said:
I guess you were not kidding.
Please explain where in Holbach's comment about insanity of religion and irrationality he has insinuated this towards YOU:
Huh? And in addition to the fact that:
some other atheists are totally nonchalant about it knowing full well the ineffectiveness of the so-called prayers. Therefore, you are free to do whichever fairyland your belief takes you, but we don't have to accept that it is rational, effective, useful or even necessary.
The problem, Ms. Noble, is that unfortunately you are perhaps a bit late to the party. This 'not a True Christian(TM)' bit of escapist canard has been tried ad nauseum in this blog by trolls of all description. Naturally, people are justifiably irritated, and the more strident of us express themselves more volubly.
No need to apologize. Nobody, least of all PZ, has disallowed you from commenting here. But while commenting, if you peddle out tired old tracts of woo-addled canards, you should be prepared to take some heat for that. People here are inestimably fond of reason, empiricism, evidence and rationality. You can argue logically, discuss and comment, but there is no preaching this choir.
Holbach :
She never implied anything of the sort.
Thank you, Rev. Big Dumb Chimp and Matt Heath, for clearing that up for me.
To Nominal Egg: ...and this is why I would never presume to pray for you. I wouldn't ever want to do anything against someone's will, as imposing myself on others is wrong. It would be the same as someone going to a theology class on Genesis and trying to teach evolution. It's not appropriate at all.
I don't normally talk about my beliefs because they are, to me, a private matter that lies between me and my Lord. I spoke out today because I saw the words of a man who professed Christianity, but was not acting in a Christian manner. I wanted to remind him of the teachings of Jesus and let him know that he is no alone, that he is loved, and with love he can let go of his hate.
I know that those words mean little or nothing to the atheists here, and this is why I did not direct those words at anyone but Robert.
Again, thank you for welcoming me and allowing me to have my say.
Have a wonderful day, everyone.
Matt Heath @ 101
I am sure the people who comment here do not need your cautionary heads-up to be aware of my proclivity to "yell" at people if the comments warrant such response. They all appear to be adults and reasonably intelligent and informed, and can decide if my comments do not merit a reply or attention, and need no further inference to your opinion of my former posts.
You sound a little funny. Do You have a cold, by any chance?
I know that punctuation is all new-fangled and everything, but perhaps You might want to invest some time in learning and using it properly.
And as for all that silly "EVIL" and "backstabbing" business... Do I really need to remind You that I am as You made Me? And that technically, as a bodiless entity, You have no back to stab?
ahh Holbach, you loveable oaf, sometimes I just want to ruffle your hair (not as often as with Walton, mind). I was responding to a specific question from someone who had got the impression from your comment that she wasn't welcome (and also pointing out the existence of killfile, which some people haven't heard of).
How gullible are You, thinking that any schmuck that signs off as "God" is in fact Me?
<*eyeroll*> Well, duh.
I'm playing a deeper game.
Paranoia™?
I don't normally talk about my beliefs because they are, to me, a private matter that lies between me and my Lord the imaginary friend that I pretend is real.
There, fixed that for ya.
Kausik Datta @ 107
Quite an evaluation. Was it from the heart or the brain?
@ #107:
I just walked Annika up to the bus stop, so unfortunately she can't respond to your comment, but I would like to point out that she did not, and does not, think Robert is not a christian. She approached him as she would any other christian in the same situation.
She said she felt he was acting in an unchristian manner, separating the behavior from the person, as most intelligent and rational people do when discussing the behavior of another.
Whether or not you agree with her words, to attempt to ascribe thoughts or feelings to her which are only the product of your own mind is wrong, rude and disingenuous.
I do know, from talking to her on the way to the bus stop, that Annika is probably not going to comment here again, as she feels her comments here are seen as an intrusion, and does not want what she has to say to be misconstrued further, as it was in this case.
It's really too bad, though, since Annika is one of the few religious people I know who also understands and trusts that the theory of evolution is the best possible explanation for the development of life on earth, thinks big bang theory is the most accurate model to describe the formation of the universe, and really enjoys hearing people like PZ and Dawkins speak about science.
I do hope I can convince her to come back to comment, as I think she could learn much and give much to the discussions here.
raven @ #90:
No, this guy is out there. As a former Mormon and current Utahn, who grew up in the church a mere fifteen minutes from Spanish Fork, I never once heard anybody even imply that democrats or liberals were influenced by the devil. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen but it's definitely not mainstream or moderate, unless the church has leapt significantly rightward in the years since I left.
(For those who aren't in the know, Utah County is basically the epicenter of conservative Mormon belief. Salt Lake, where the church is headquartered, is far more liberal.)
This may come as a shock: Most Mormons are people of average intelligence and moral integrity, who happen to have some irrational religious beliefs. They may make an easy target, but I find uninformed prejudice just as unpalatable when it comes from atheists as from any other source.
D'oh! Substitute Springville for Spanish Fork in my #119. It may also help if I explain that both my hometown and Springville are in Utah County...
I don't get it. If the devil is trying to destroy families in the US, why would he ship Latinos here?
He's trying to flood the market.
Kate @ #118 (about Annika):
With a few exceptions, no one here is going to give her a hard time just because she's religious. Appeals to that "authority" are going to be met with ridicule, however. Also, we have a long history with the whole "I'll pray for you" thing -- it's considered intentionally condescending and insensitive. I know she was saying it to another Christian, but it's a phrase guaranteed to raise the hackles of anyone who's debated with Christians for any period of time.
Honestly, when one Christian tells another one "I'll pray for you" in the context of a disagreement, do they not feel it just as insulting?
It's obvious that Annika meant well, she just managed to push all the wrong buttons with her first post.
robert@19
1) insult
2) insult
3) insult
4) smiley face
Typical fundie hypocrisy
Anika, Robert and Kate
I think you, and most people I have heard this from, totally misunderstand at least my objection to people praying for me. Mind, I speak for myself. Others here probably have their own reasons for their objections.
Praying is a waste of time. Get out there and DO something. March for peace if thats your goal, pass out condoms at every school dance if you are against abortions. Find an empty lot in your community and grow tomatoes, zuccini and corn and invite the poor to come help and pick what is grown. If your neighbor is sick, cook him dinner once a week. Donate your unwanted furniture and clothing to a battered womens shelter or the local veterans helpers. Around here they use the donations to get people into apartments and dressed for job hunting. Thats the kind of action that helps people get off welfare. Volunteer at a soup kitchen, volunteer as a foster parent or a big brother/big sister.
When I hear how people are praying for something to happen, it really means they are too lazy to go work for it. They are not really serious about problem solving. They just want to sit back and mumble a bit and let some one else do the work. The worlds troubles need action. Prayers are useless, havnt you noticed?
Dancing under the oaks is good exercise at least, when is the next full moon anyways?
Thank you kindly
May 9.
(Nothing good can come of combining dancing nekkid under the oaks and the month of May)(sez Granny Weatherwax. Nanny Ogg might disagree.)
Actually, make that May 8.
This:
http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/MoonPhase.php
Is in universal time, and at 4am UTC, New England is still the day before.
Bugger time zones, anyway.
Nevermind people praying for me, I'd just like them to stop saying "Bless you!" every friggin' time I sneeze. This is particularly annoying in a bad allergy year, like this one has been so far.
Seriously, does anyone have anything that they say when this happens that doesn't make them sound like a rude asshole? I've tried things like, "Thank you, but you don't need to say 'Bless you' when I sneeze, as I'm not superstitious." I've tried saying, "Funny, that saying has persisted for a long time even though most people don't think the devil is going to jump in their body when they sneeze these days." Nothing seems quite right.
Lately I've just been ignoring the stupid saying entirely. I say, "Excuse me," and nothing more. This seems a little churlish, though.
@pcarini:
I understand your point, but when commenters here attributed feelings and thoughts to her that she did not have, and would not ever have she felt as though no matter what she said, on any subject, her words would be misconstrued simply because she is christian. When faced with that kind of prejudicial behavior, Annika is the type of person who will just walk away, and go find another place where she is welcome.
I can honestly say she has never pushed her beliefs on me, has never tried to convert anyone or convince anyone that she is correct on the subject of god and religion. She and I are good friends and while we don't often talk about religion, when we do talk about it she is really quite open about how she arrived at her position and the struggle she faces as she tries to reconcile her own thoughts and feelings on the subject with those presented to her in her church.
She's not a dishonest person and she's not mean or ignorant or selfish. I really wish others here had engaged her in a discussion of her position, but I also wish I had teleportation technology. I have a feeling I'll be teleporting long before that even has a chance of happening.
Britomart, you fucking twit, she didn't offer to pray for you. She was praying for a christian.
I wasn't offering to pray for anyone. I'm an atheist.
Fucking fuck you fuckers.
LEARN. TO. READ.
Well, yes it does come as a shock, although not much of one.
I said "might", as in sort of a joke.
Got to admit a lot of wingnuttery comes out of Utah. That state representative tied up with the Mormon boot camps to turn gay and apostate kids normal, the FLDS, the shootouts between polygamists, each other and the cops and so on.
My relatives live in Utah and I've been there many times. The best part of it is the desert areas all of which would be one big national park anywhere else.
My godness Kate !
Where did I say she did ?
And who was Robert offering to pray for?
Are you capable of a rational discussion here?
Can you refute any of my points?
Get a grip!
Thank you kindly
Kate, some of us recognized what Annika was doing and left her alone. I've seen Scott Hatfield, OM, do the same thing. I, for one, will applaud her attempt. Contrary to what seems popular belief, I won't mock all people who profess belief in god in all cases. Now Robert the troll, on the other hand...
raven:
I did catch that, so I owe you an apology for jumping on your statement as strongly as I did. I also should have addressed that more to the whole room, yours was just the most recent one that set me off... I far too often on here see "Mormons all X Y and Z", where X Y and Z are things that are patently untrue, so I feel the need to stick up for my Mormon friends and relatives on occasion.
I'll admit that without reservation, but at least we get to laugh at Texas and Florida. I really do wish I knew why the wingnuts like Buttars and now this joker manage to get elected, for multiple terms even! It hammers home the realization that democracy requires an intelligent, educated, and engaged public to work properly.
Robert - considering you have appointed yourself the grammar police perhaps you might explain your own mistake in comment no. 26.
@119 -- Just two days ago I was called Satan (or was accused of being influenced by Satan, I'm not sure which), by a member of the LDS Church. Maybe you know all the "reasonable" Mormons and I've met the only one off-balance?
Candy @127,
To ward off the 'Bless you' when sneezing, I recommend silence. The 'rules' say the blesser cannot request a response from the blessee, but they really really want a thank you. Eventually, they stop blessing you; at least that's my experience. It does seem rude, but so is an unrequested prayer. If I get a gesundheit or salud, I will offer my thanks, but the blessers never take that route.
They don't. Once upon a time, people would have come right out and said "spics should go back to Mexico." Times have changed, however; overt racism is no longer acceptable, so bigots rely on dog-whistle issues like "illegal immigration" as a fig leaf. Underneath the facade of respect for law and order, however, it's the same old bigotry as before -- note that it's very clear from the context of the article that "illegal immigrant" and "latino" are being used interchangeably.
Lynna @ #135:
Just to clarify: I in no way said that they're all sane and reasonable, just that most of them are pretty average. Most of the younger generation of Mormons that I've met aren't trying to have large families either, are using birth control, etc. Admittedly I steer clear of the relief society type ladies, who probably do have the chutzpah to call someone Satan. The really unusual thing, aside from the teetotaling, is how young they get married -- they're old maids at 22!
Posted by: Marcus Ranum @ 5 "If you ever wanted evidence that democracy is a bad idea... Voters basing their votes on belief in "teh debbil" votes count the same as a rationalist's?? Travesty."
It's still better than any other system. If you modify the voter eligibility criteria to favour one group in the community above others you will create an even more unstable system as all the outgroups will be pushing for inclusion and/or protesting exclusion and may not do so peacefully.
@138 Thanks for the clarification. Understood -- Relief Society Ladies are a different kettle of fish.
I once listened to a couple of 15 year old boys discuss how nice it would be to have a spring wedding in the SLC temple, when the flowers planted for Conference would still be looking good. Not that these guys were getting married, of course, but the fact that two boys that young would already be looking forward to marriage and making their plans was a little odd. Not only do they get married young, but my understanding is that young couples are praised if they start having children right away. Glad to hear that younger Mormons are now doing what most Catholics do, ignoring the pressure and using birth control, etc.
I wish they gave out certificates or something for those of us that have been identified as Satan. I'd like for my elevation to the top of the evil scale to be official.
I should certainly hope that Professor Myers creates a hostile environment for conservatives and other regressives. It is the duty of all civilized, rational people to do so. Nobody minds these thoughts occurring to you about retribution and an ego-centered universe. But, yes, you should be quite ashamed to voice them in public.
Do people really see the old sneeze/bless you custom as a prayer?
Do you also think you have to worship Thor on Thursday and pray to the divine Julius Caesar in July, too? Do you refuse to say "goodbye" for its etymology too?
Posted by: Hedora @ 12 "When did "Latino" and "Christian" become mutually exclusive?"
Many American christians don't recognise Catholics as fellow christians.
#118: Holbach. It's all the same place really. My heart is an organ that pumps blood. My brain is what allows me to think. Both are necessary for me... :D
Why, was I wrong in my impassioned defense of your post? Some days I find my tolerance level for the "Pious" and "Godly" amongst us to dip to a nadir.
Nerd of Redhead, that reminds me - I have never - AFAICR - seen Mr. Hatfield offering to pray for anyone. He simply is NOT at all, even a bit, supercilious or smug enough to do that. He may operate within his belief system, but he never (a) imposes it on anyone (b) projects his belief as an alternative to rational thinking and science.
Katkinkate #144: Not being Christian (or American, for that matter), I was completely unaware of this fact that a lot of people actually demarcate between Catholics and Christians. I just recently got to know this. It seems kind of funny to me, somewhat reminiscent of the relentless quarrels between the Shia and the Sunni muslims, between various modern sects of Buddhism, between Orthodox and Reformed Judaism, and so forth. The religious can't seem to be making up their mind as to who are really the keepers of The One True Religion(TM)
Kate at #118.
I agree. Now if you could just point out where in my post #107 I did all that you accuse me of... Could you? Please?
Your friend can pray as much as she wants for whoever she chooses. That does not make praying to a non-existent entity any effective. She may understand and know everything there is to know about all that you mention, Big Bang, evolution and natural selection, workings of science, and stuff, but as long as she adheres to an irrational set of beliefs, you know it (since you happen to be an atheist) as well as I do, all it is going to result in is a massive amount of cognitive dissonance.
That is her prerogative, of course. But if she tries to peddle it here, particularly the 'pious' card, one True Christian(TM) praying for a 'Not-so-true Christian', and displays her piety here, she is sure to draw some flak. Why, do you think she deserves special consideration just because she is religious?
Caustic Data @ 145
It's customary, and realistically, to use the heart for emotion when the brain compels you to do the correct thing, and the brain for cold facts when the heart is unable to choose the required response. I reread my comment @ 103 and could not interpret any miscomprehension in getting my point across with remission of clarity, and your reply to mine at same that I also closely reread and did feel remiss in not understanding yours @ 107. Is it me, or do you feel justified in interpreting a meaning to suit you?
Kausik Datta @146:
"The religious can't seem to be making up their mind as to who are really the keepers of The One True Religion(TM)"
Oh, sure they can! The members of each particular subsect are the keepers of the One True Religion(TM). Anyone ELSE is at best misguided, but more likely just plain eee-vile!
(It does seem that the smaller the group of One Trues, the more dedicated their belief in their absolute correctness....)
You know what has eluded me? The definition of "anti-family" legislation. What is that, exactly?
This "Kate and Annika her xtian friend who happens to visit" game was fun,lets play that again sometime.
PZ,I hold your Utah GOP insanity,and raise you,via Abbie,Oklahoma !
What about Santa, surely he did something wrong too.
Holbach at #147: Whoa!!
No offense intended. Please tell me if I - in my post @#107 - misinterpreted your message or misrepresented your views.
Just for clarity's sake, let me restate this:
(a) I thought Ms. Noble did not get the point of your message.
(b) She seemed to have gathered that in your reply, you were calling her a stupid and ignorant person. That is what she said at #88, commenting on your post.
(c) But from my reading of your message, I could not find any instance where you said anything of that sort to her.
Did I get it all wrong, then?