It's another example of weird fundie obsessions. In this case, it's all about an angry god who sends hurricanes and is appeased by prayer, and just what do you think he's angry about? We haven't been hardline enough about Israel.
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Okay! I'm gettin' saved NOW!
Oh Jack Chick. What's it like to be completely insane? Do you even see the same colors I do?
Good ol' Chick tracts. Gotta love em.
I had a dentist who had them scattered around the reception area, that's how I got turned onto them.
The artwork is great, the message not so much.
At least he's not a holocaust denier.
So, the Jewish people are God's Chosen People and God will destroy nations on their behalf; but at the same time, they're going to hell because they don't accept Jesus as their saviour. Have I got that right?
I mean this isn't really shocking but.
The highest classification in the scale, Category 5, is reserved for storms with winds exceeding 155 mph (69 m/s; 136 kt; 249 km/h).
Your point being?
So whatever nonsense someone spouts,as long as they are not a Holocaust denier,theyre still cool? *shakes head*
Sure is odd that an omnipotent god needs human help to protect Israel. And why does he have to send storms as a warning? Can't this guy use email? Is he aphasic or something?
Wait a minute. I thought Katrina was punishment for our soft stand on gays. God's not being very clear. Perhaps he could send down a light freezing rain just to clarify things.
I thought fundies loved Bush cause he followed they're crazy Zionist agenda. I guess not. I also like how instead of punishing England, or Rome (for kicking the Jews out), or all those crazy Arabs, God decides to punish a whole bunch of lower income black people. And how in reality Rita peetered out (i was living in Houston at the time). Also, what the fuck is the River of Egypt (if you mean the Nile, say the Nile).
I also don't like this artist, but that's another issue.
Ok,ok,should have read it first I guess....
And I thought the hurricanes were because of the gays,not the stuff done to the jews.....Are the jews gay??
*Confused*
I looked up that storm, the waves were only 10-30 ft.
Facts never get in the way of Fundy Xian truth.
If one accepted Mr Chick's theology, it would lead to only one logical conclusion: namely, that God is completely insane.
I really don't want to live in a universe ruled by an insane God. And thankfully, I don't think we do.
I was all ready to make a little joke about giants saying "Haw Haw," but the implied explanation for the Holocaust was too sickening to allow for a humorous response. No, he's not a Holocaust denier. He just suggests it was the fault of the Jews themselves.
@10
Christians always have problems with the Nile (or denial)...
How the Heck did W end up on the side of the devil? Also, I see how this cause and effect works. I saw Jack Chick in his office in Ontario, CA, and a week later my car dies on me.
SC: No, he's not a Holocaust denier. He just suggests it was the fault of the Jews themselves.
Of course. It's the only explanation that could be consistent with a "just" god. Otherwise, he's a raving, sadistic monster.
But then again, that explanation implies that he's also a raving, sadistic monster. Just no way around it (outside of sophistry) - an OOO god is evil.
that is a long chick tract.
As a Proud Britisher, I'm rather upset at his completely inaccurate depiction of the Balfour Declaration. Tea anyone?
Isn't Israel the only country in the Middle East which has civil rights for gay citizens?
The irony.
To Rowen @ 10: The artist is Jack Chick himself!
I fell in love with Chick tracts at a role playing convention in 1989. The tract in question was Dark Dungeons, one of the silliest things ever published regarding the dangers of role-playing games. It even ends with a good old fashioned book burning.
Here's a link:
Dark Dungeons
I don't really read comic books, myself, but I think I'm familiar with the basic story lines. So don't worry everyone, this over-the-top super villain will get his cummuppance. From what I read, the hero must be this "Devil" fellow. I think I've seen him before. Red costume; magical flaming pitchfork? He'll save the day, don't worry.
Yet, Washington and New York where these decisions are made remained untouched. But Texas/Arkansas where the decision are not made and have a supposedly high concentration of true Christians gets it up the butt. Does God have bad aim?
As an Israeli....
OK, this particular bit of insanity actually works in our favor. Most of the time.
:rolleyes:
#6 RevBigDumbChimp:
Jack Chick is a theologian, not a meteorologist, so let's not split hairs. However, I do thank you for kindly educating me on Poe's Law yesterday. My experiences of late appear to bear out the truth of that principle.
Silly person. Everyone knows that the devil is a tall, skinny man who wears a suit, is dark skinned and has ears that may be a little to large for his head.
Coincidentally, PBS last night had a show called "God on Trial" which was about a group of Jewish people at Auschwitz trying God in a rabbinical court before they're taken away to the gas chambers. I didn't see it and so don't know if it was any good, but I'm sure I'll catch it today or tomorrow.
That is pretty long for a Chick tract. Now I need to wash those images out of my head with more coffee.
#8: That provided a badly needed laugh. Thank you!
@Captain Mike #22:
That's a nice link. Too bad it doesn't go anywhere. :-)
#21: "Isn't Israel the only country in the Middle East which has civil rights for gay citizens?
The irony."
Well, you have to counterbalance that with the fact that Iran has no gay people in it. Really, their president said so.
stupid <--- fundamentalists
Of course, the whole tract is appalling. If I didn't make it clear in my above post - allow me to clarify that now.
Yet, Washington and New York where these decisions are made remained untouched. But Texas/Arkansas where the decision are not made and have a supposedly high concentration of true Christians gets it up the butt. Does God have bad aim?
No, he's got quite a good aim, actually. But he's powered by those who believe in him. So disasters only strike where faith is strong. Believe in the living (albeit sociopathic, insane and sadistic) God, for otherwise he's powerless over you!
Even better, here's a working link. Just click my name above. This is not meant to indicate that I am associated in any way with Chick Publications. I would probably have to kill myself if perfect strangers thought that for even one second.
What is it with these kind of comics and bolding seemingly random words? There has to be some type of pattern to it.
Off Topic, somewhat, but you know how Christians like to brag about being better people because they give more than atheists? Well, that's not as true as it used to be:
http://www.christianitytoday.com/bc/2008/006/5.11.html
Maybe if we tried appeasing the god with something a little more concrete, things would go easier on us. For instance, instead of prayer, try milk and cookies. An angry god is a hungry god so something to nosh on might limit the smiting just a bit.
If that doesn't work (maybe god is watching His/Her weight), we might try sacrificing some virgins. Of course, we need to find some first but that can be managed. In short, there are many things we can try. We just need to ask the Aztecs, Mayans, or early Hawaiians.
OK, I still think Rev. Right is a parody but (s)he is disturbingly tenacious when it comes to staying in character.
""Yet, Washington and New York where these decisions are made remained untouched. But Texas/Arkansas where the decision are not made and have a supposedly high concentration of true Christians gets it up the butt. Does God have bad aim?
No, he's got quite a good aim, actually. But he's powered by those who believe in him. So disasters only strike where faith is strong. Believe in the living (albeit sociopathic, insane and sadistic) God, for otherwise he's powerless over you!""
God is simply gettin' old and is losing his sight. He goes more by sound now, and aims for those he can hear. This is the reason I never pray...
So somebody in Britain dropped a copy of the Balfour Declaration, accidentally crushing a butterfly, which led to a sequence of meteorological events, resulting in Hurricane Rita.
Makes perfect sense, except Rita missed Houston, teh Gay capital of the south, so I'm a little skeptical about the veracity of this tract.
Rita only leveled huge swaths of the Real America [tm], like Beaumont and rural southeastern Louisiana.
The people in the comic are obviously in Kansas, so that particular tornado must have been a coincidence of biblical conflations.
-------------------------------------------
Jesus Christ live on the radio
For instance, instead of prayer, try milk and cookies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhUFxaauNTE
(Sorry - I'm in a bit of a silly mood this morning.)
I found a Chick tract (can't now remember which) at a Tim Horton's drivethrough speaker once. It was just sitting there in a 'please take' kind of way. Guess someone figured it was a nice outlet for prosyletization. Would you like some psychotic fundamentalism with your coffee, sir?
I got to thinking: I really should print up the 'Who Will Be Eaten First?' parody in the standard book tract form they use, leave 'em around, here and there, the same way, same sorts of places. Give folk a nice laugh to go with their coffee in the morning.
Out of the whole of the Earth God chose a shit box desert for his place. So tell me again about ID??
@Larry #36
That's the Homer Simpson-approach: "If You want me to eat these cookies for You, give me no sign. [Waits 3 seconds] Thy will be done."
I think it was more a case that somebody is confusing and conflating the first and second Balfour Declarations.
Clinteas at 7:
You totally missed the joke on that one. Must be getting late down under.
Apparently Jack Chick has never heard the myth of "The Wandering Jew," which he seems to believe is just a term for the Jewish diaspora.
Pity the poor Wandering Jew: the fellow who taunted the Jebus, and who is consequently condemned to bear the mark of the Jebus and is forbidden to stay in the same town more than a fortnight, roaming the earth til the Jebus returns.
You'd think he was auditioning for a Jack Chick tract, and Jack doesn't even know he exists.
So the "River of Egypt" is the Suez canal?
If that's how god shows his love, I want a divorce.
Perhaps ironically, sex-changing operations are legal in Iran, and, shall we say, quite popular.
Rita missed Houston, teh Gay capital of the south, so I'm a little skeptical about the veracity of this tract.
Rita only leveled huge swaths of the Real America - scooter
Be fair, scooter. A hurricane's a tricky thing to steer, you know, particularly when you've got prayers coming in on about a million lines at once!
Bad Geography, bad history, lousy logic. Did Sarah Palin write that?
I kept reading and kept waiting for the punchline... but there was no punchline. I cannot believe that was serious.
Three things
- "ROARRR" says the tornado.
- I love this "pious" protection of Israel when the Jews that don't convert immediately get incinerated anyway. Along with the Muslims, Buddhists and little children all over the world. But the Bubbas don't mind, cause Jesus gets to sit on a shiny throne and they get fried chicken in heaven!
-Why is God sending these disasters to the middleman? C'mon, God! Where's the Old Testament stuff? And why aren't all the first borns dead in Iran?
Never having heard of Chick Tracts before, I also briefly thought this was a new Dixie Chicks song... :D
Larry wrote:
The Bible suggests other things we might encourage Christians to sacrifice:
http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_teachings_of_jesus/on_marriage_vs_…
@52: Same with me...
Can I be the first to say "Poe's Law"???
@29: It#s 5.00 pm in Germany, I#m going home to wash that taste down with beer!
Nick @ 50
Are you suggesting that God gets so infallibe at times that he/she doesn't know whether he/she's sucking or blowing ?
--Gary Godhead
By being insufficiently bonkers.
First time I heard him denounced as the Antichrist was back in 2003 or so. Apparently he's a god-hating liberal who got elected by falsely selling himself as an ultra-fundie madman.
All the bad guys are bald or balding. Discuss.
Is the Balfour Doctrine bit aimed at the Muslims getting top billing for the Holocaust? I thought the whole Muslim/Israel thing flared up mainly after WWII.
If you look closely, you'll see Him. He's just left of center next to Jesus and Abraham.
http://www.eso.org/public/outreach/press-rel/pr-2008/pr-39-08.html
What? They pray God to spare their farm from the safety of the storm cellar? Some faith they have!
Because God's losing his super powers.
A few of the millions of ways in which Jack Chick is wrong:
The center of Hurricane Rita struck near the Louisiana-Texas border - a long way from Galveston. Moreover - Texas was on the left, or easy side of the hurricane.
Although the popular press loves to refer to Hurricane Andrew as a '30-mile wide tornado' - the idea meteorological nonsense. For starters, hurricanes are driven by rising moist air - tornadoes by horizontal mixing of dry and moist air, and north-south mixing of cold and warm air. Next, hurricanes are strongest in low shear conditions, tornadoes are strongest in high-shear conditions. I could go on, but that's enough.
Israel's evacuation of Gaza adopted on June 6th. The voluntary phase ended August 15th. Hurricane Katrina not only did not land 'the next day', but did not even form until August 23, and did not make landfall until August 29. The evacuation of Gaza continued until September 12th.
Land for peace was not a specific treaty - it was a general principal. It was first used in Israel's treaties with Egypt in 1979. The Madrid conference of 1991 began on October 30th. It is true that the 1991 Halloween Nor'easter peaked on that day - but (obviously) it started before the conference began, and ended before the conference ended. The 1991 Halloween Nor'easter dissipated on November 2, but the Madrid conference of 1991 led to further negotiations - starting in Madrid on November 3rd, and followed by over a dozen rounds of negotiations in Washington DC starting in 1991, December 9, 1991, and continuing until 1994, January 24.
I'm reminded of Jon Stewart asking David Brooks, "Have you ever been right?"
Is that the source of my evil powers? Sort of the anti-Sampson?
Here I am in 'jolly old England' just thinking of the options President-elect Obama has for restarting a peace process in the Middle East - and it's been pissing down with rain all day. Should have been more careful what I thought!
As a bald man, I resemble that remark. Now I have to go finish writing the gay-sex curriculum for next year's kindergarten class.
One of the slides lists the following as consequences for trying to ensure that Israel and Palestine can coexist peacefully:
"•August 23, 1992: Talks resume for Israel to surrender land for peace. Within 24 hours Hurricane Andrew a 30-miIe-wide tornado slams the U.S. Cost: $30 billion.
•April 27-September 13, 1993: Israel and PLO work on and sign a compromise peace agreement in Washington D.C. During this same period the country is hit with the most devastating and widespread flooding in U.S. history. Cost: $21 billion.
•Aug. 25.Sept 10, 2001: The US. Arabia and Israel prepared the most comprehensive peace plan ever. God lifted His hand of protection. and the twin towers and Pentagon were attacked September 11". just before plans were finalized. Cost: Over $40 billion.
•November 7.12, 2002: During Ramadan, President Bush hosted a dinner to honor Islam and the 'revelation of God's word in the holy Koran --slapping the Living God in the face! When officials flew to pressure Israel. 88 out-of-season tornadoes hit 7 states.
•ln 2005 alone, messing with Israel cost the US over $56 billion in tornadoes. hurricanes, flood and drought. DOES ANYBODY NOTICE A PATTERN?" [Chick, ibid.]
There are other examples of this in the tract.
Now, I don't want to pee on anyone's parade, but it seems to be that these "correlations" (patterns) are spurious to say the least. I mean, what about all of the disasters which happened without association to an anti-conflict event? What of the anti-conflict events not associated with disaster? What if it turns out that in fact these disasters are more closely tied into global warming and aren't correlated to Israel at all? I mean, surely I can, using this logic, take any two events in close temporal proximity and associate them to make any point I like!
And if this is an omnipotent, omnscient, omnipresent deity, is this truly the best way that they have to communicate their displeasure? Woody Allen suggested that god is basically an underachiever, and if this is really his best effort, then I think he's gonna be getting an F in communication skills.
Wow, Nelson Muntz really is the oldest student at Springfield Elementary School. He lived all the way back in Moses's time.
Yair:
As an Israeli....
OK, this particular bit of insanity actually works in our favor. Most of the time.
:rolleyes:
You do know that these folks plan is to have most Israelis annihilated in the final war, don't you? A second holocaust where the only surviving Jews are those who convert to Christianity?
Even when it's working in your favor, it's not! Big, big, big mistake for Israel to get in bed with these loons. It's like Black nationalists allying themselves with the Klan, since the Klan promises to make a Black homeland while they create a White homeland.
I've heard people speak contemptuously of chick lit, but I thought the term referred to those pink & pastel coloured paperbacks that have soppy titles, with a nice bit of totty on the cover.
Seeing as Yahweh is such a mean, bad-assed dude, how come the fecker hasn't come after me yet, for taking his name in vain?
Actually it sounds like you are describing Mills and Boon-type romance novels. "Chick lit" usually refers to books aimed at younger women and at least partly about shoes and/or chocolate.
Hey! Look! Archaeologists found one of the earrings that Jesus gave his mother Mary for her birthday. He bought it with money he made delivering Chick Tracts to the Pharasees. 2,000 year old earring
The scariest thing is that many ignorant fools probably read those Chick tracts and think to themselves, hmmm that makes a lot of sense.
It just keeps feeding their ignorance and their foolishness, and nothing can be done about it. Nothing.
Depressing.
I know that it's irrelevent to this particular post, but I've just found out that Possummomma has just returned.
I remember reading how she had been more or less forced off earlier.
Why is Jesus the Man Without a Face?
That'll be the 'England' (Britain, actually, you ignorant prick, Chick) who alone declared war against Nazi Germany in 1939?
So what happens if you live in one of those hurricane resistant, tornado resistant dome houses? Or we actually start trying out weather control techniques and they work?
My favorite line in the tract . . . "I gotta go to the bathroom."
Hey, us atheists in Yurrp (the content over the Atlantic from youse guys) don't have hurricanes! We have easy weather. But you god-botherers in Amuricky have nasty storms year after year after year. So Jack Dipstick must be telling you that we Yurrpians are in fact god's chosen people and amurickian christians are hated by god! Halllllllaylooooooooyah! Bow down before us!
I'm feeling rather disappointed after clicking on the "meet jesus" button on that site. I mean, I wasn't expecting to be able to arrange a personal appointment, coz the guy must be busy... but I was at least expecting a list of public appearances, perhaps a signing session (I'd love to get my Bible autographed!) or two or a water walking demonstration.... just a few instructions about prayer and bible reading
Pity.
On the bright side, such good news about Possummomma!
Ugh. The uigliest part of Chick's lunatic propaganda is always the part where the - usually handsome; usually blonde - god-botherer finally causes the - usually ugly; usually unshaven - sinner to repent and become another god-droid.
If you squint, it's possible to see Jack Chick himself, just out of frame - his hand thrust into his trousers and pumping furiously.
What a wretched git the man is.
Skimmed the thing. Message I get: "Real estate is worth killing innocent people thousands of miles away."
I take guilty pleasure in reading Chick tracts. Three on evolution ought to be of general interest here:
Apes, Lies, and Ms. Henn.
Big Daddy?
Moving On Up!
Evolution is so much easier to refute when it is grossly misrepresented and portrayed as the religious belief of frothing, ignorant zealots. (irony alert!)
I'm really conflicted by wanting to purchase hardcopies, but not wanting to support fundie idiocy. But at the same time, if a company makes a product I enjoy, I shouldn't feel bad about financially supporting it. Hrm.
Peter Mc@77.
Also the Britain that conspired with France and Israel to seize control of the Suez canal in 1956, allowing Israel to grab Sinai, and was prevented from following through with the plan by the good old US of A! It's interesting that quite a few US rightist loonies have a particular antipathy to "England". For example, Lyndon Larouche thinks the world's illegal drug trade is run by the British royal family. Although I'm a republican in the British sense, I somehow don't think we'll get rid of them by finding Liz Windsor shifting quantities of heroin and cocaine to keep up her expensive lifestyle.
Jeeves, I believe the faceless guy is God the father. Chick always doe it. I think it's a protestant anti-idolatry thing.
Thanks Scooter, #45.
Well Chick has a point. Everyone knows that hurricanes and tornados almost always hit the South Central USA and have an affinity for demolishing trailer parks. We rarely have either on the West Coast or New England.
And we all know where the Death Cults are located. God clearly hates fundie xians.
Doesn't much seem to care for kudzu, orange trees, or alligators either.
Or Zinc
Matt,
How strange. I thought the religious were comfortable with God looking like Father Time. Faceless deity it is!
Good thing God only has the power to send hurricanes and tornadoes in the appropriate seasons, else we might take such things as actual signs and not confuse God with, y'know, regular weather.
I'm still not swayed by the ontological argument, but one thing is clear: if such a grand creator deity does exist, Jehovah is undoubtedly subservient to it.
"The scariest thing is that many ignorant fools probably read those Chick tracts and think to themselves, hmmm that makes a lot of sense.
It just keeps feeding their ignorance and their foolishness, and nothing can be done about it. Nothing.
Depressing."
Even more depressing... many = millions.
And what is this saving a building from a tornado by praying? Are we then to assume that every buildiing that IS destroyed by a tornado was NOT prayed over? Can we run an experiment on that? The odds of prayer being protective?
Jeeves@90,
Isn't there something in the bible like:
"Thou shalt see my back parts; but my face ye shall not see"?
I'm sure someone here will be able to identify it.
So JHWH moons at us, but won't show his face. Pimples?
Nick,
You're right. The passage is from Exodus. Part of me is embarrassed that I forgot that passage (as I've seen it before somewhere) but no more so than if I had forgotten one of Osiris' foibles. Biblical confirmation or not, what kind of deity doesn't show his face? I think he's shy.
In Panel 8, it looks like Gramps is praying like a M00slim!
Perhaps ironically, sex-changing operations are legal in Iran, and, shall we say, quite popular.
But, but, if they change their sex, then they're, like, born-again heteros, no?
I couldn't bring myself to finish it. Only got about 10 frames in; it reminds me too much of the zealots in my family.
"He just suggests it was the fault of the Jews themselves."
I just don't see how anyone can postulate an all-powerful and all-knowing creator and not conclude that either a) he's a sadistic fucker or b) he just doesn't give a shit about us.
It's probably way too technical a point, but this tripe isn't even marginally Christian theology. There's the new testament with inconvenient stuff like "for all nations" and "new covenant" that doesn't quite fit the Jesus in Greek Armor (isn't that gay by definition?) picture.
Geral #34: That's a great question!! I never thought about that before!! Now that you pointed it out, I doubt I can see one again without noticing!!
Apart from the base insanity of Jack Chick (or the many people writing under that pseudonym; I'm not sure if he's a real person or not) I just have to ask just what particular sect of Christianity he is involved with. Seriously, I don't know much about the various divisions beyond the broad strokes between Catholics and Protestants and some of the weird fights between Baptists and Pentecostals.
Given that Chick comes out against the Cat-licks in at least one tract, I assume he's some kind of Protestant. Could somebody clue me in?
I haven't looked but my guess would be some really hardcore version of southern baptist (and that's saying a lot) or his own little sect of insanity a la Fred Phelps.
Well, drugs are 'all natural', so I wouldn't be altogether surprised to learn that Chuckboy was big on them - it might explain a thing or too about his intellect.
Thank you for that link, SC. I've never actually heard the tune.
This is the best Mr. Deity can do? Regular weather? How about my Rain-o'-Frogs?
Given that Chick comes out against the Cat-licks in at least one tract, I assume he's some kind of Protestant. Could somebody clue me in?
Spook, you can always contact him... or are you too spooked by that prospect? I would assume he's the Uber-Protestant, because he's protested against everything!
Forgive my ignorance, but just what the fuck is an "OOO" God?
Spook,
more likely some variety of Pentecostal, although at the far end of the spectrum the organizational structure is pretty loose. When the only criteria for being a minister is saying so and finding an audience to preach to the classification is most likely to be external.
There's a quite offensive taxonomy the various Protestant sects (kernel of truth probably larger 50 years ago, but catches a drift)
Baptists are Pentecostals who learn to read,
Methodists are Baptists who get a factory job
Presbyterians are Methodists with some college
Episcopalians are born to factory owners.
Doesn't apply to New England or upper midwest where Congregationalist or Lutheran pretty much covers the map.
Oh crap. You know what, I used to support Israel in the '80s, but over the last decade have really developed a fuck the Israel-is-special attitude we see in our country.
They're just another country in my book. And rather badly-behaving apartheid one at that.
Not that we can cast stones. It's not like we didn't practice eugenics or didn't herd people into concentration camps or practice torture and deny basic human rights that we, supposedly, challenge.
Well, if you looked like this, you wouldn't want to show your face either.
But look how happy he is. I wouldn't worship him, but that's the kind of god I could have a beer with.
And what does Chick say about the fight between Orthodox and Armenian clergy in the Sepulchre basilica in Israel?
(Well, that both are heretics, I guess...)
Click my name above for a very cool seasonal Chick Tract that people in my neighborhood gave away instead of candy.
It's about a boy who goes into a haunted house, and then is killed and goes to hell because he was a Sunday school dropout.
The moral of the story: God wants to torture you in a lake of fire for all eternity, no matter how good you've been.
And NO SECOND CHANCES!
Ah, the English empire. I'm fairly certain it was the British Empire, still, whats a bit of accuracy eh? As Akheloios (#20) hinted, everyone in England must have hated the Jewish, just google the Balfour Declaration. Pass the tea.
TRF
Love the D&D tract.
Definitely not the same artist.
That looks like it has to be one of the pros from the 70's.
Somewhere between George Perez and Nestor Redondo.
I know, my nerd is showing.
I'm a comic illustrator.
Maybe we should start producing our own.
could be fun.
We could do positive atheistic stories, or we could go balls to the wall, over the top Poe.
The Poe route would be more fun.
Oooh, another good one is "Fairy Tales".
That's about a boy who discovers that Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy don't exist. He does what any normal, well-adjusted child would do -- commits murder.
Of course, this is only the beginning of his life of crime, all because his parents lied to him about the tooth fairy.
@105
Omnipotent
Omniscient
Omnipresent
(I think)
#105 && 115:
OOO - omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent. Omniscient implies omnipresent. Those 3 things are contradictory with reality, without some very impressive sophistry.
One of which is to redefine goodness in such a way that "God's Goodness" is what we mortals call evil.
I don't want to seem ignorant, but is this Chick stuff comedy or something?
@117
It's not trying to be, which makes it more so.
OOO seems redundant to me: an omnipotent being can know anything it wants, so is also omniscient.
Karatex @ 111:
That last panel is really disturbing. Kid's best friend is dead, he believes he's being tormented in Hell forever, but he's happy?! Ugh! That's one of the major things that turned me away from Christianity, the idea of people being tortured in Hell forever with no second chance. Even though I "knew" I'd be saved, I couldn't stand the idea of other people - even strangers! - being tormented forever. It seems to require a remarkably self-centered personality to accept that theology
YES! I have been saved by a comic!
*puts down his copy of Tales from the Leather Nun and reads this entry*
What's THIS crap?
blockquote>OOO seems redundant to me: an omnipotent being can know anything it wants, so is also omniscient.
Actually, I'd say that omnipotent and omniscient are *contradictory* rather than redundant - an omniscient being, in order to be truly omniscient, would have to know everything, including him or herself - including what he/she would do in the future! Yet, in order to know one's own future actions, one could not have free will. Ones actions would have to be predetermined, which is a rather severe restriction on ones power! If, on the other hand, God is omnipotent, then that necessarily means that God would have to have power over his/her own actions; meaning that his/her future could not be known - a limitation on knowledge.
I'm a little sad that this tract doesn't have famous people in cameo appearances.
I analyzed this tract at length, citing errors and assertions (and there were many) at my blog:
http://tommyholland.blogspot.com/2008/11/tract-links-hurricanes-to-gods…
If I made any factual errors, I'd appreciate anyone letting me know.
@ Spook: I believe Jack classifies himself as an "Independent Baptist."
He's not exactly a proponent of any sort of top-heavy organized religion. Indeed, he doesn't even classify his brand of Christianity as a religion per se. While he does believe it's important to attend a "bible-believing church" - most of the organized religions wouldn't classify as such from his perspective - and weekly bible studies with like-minded people, the only thing that really matters to him is that you believe in Jesus, period. Belief alone will make sure that the other details work themselves out, or rather, are worked out by God.
And of course I just realized that I've devoted way too much of my life to studying the works and beliefs of Jack T. Chick...
@ Karatex 114:
That Chick tract was one of the most hilarious things I have ever seen. Even my Catholic friend thought it was funny, and neither of us could believe that it was serious, but it is all the same.
What can I say but WOW! That's one of the most bizarre, whacked out things I've ever seen. The truly scary part is that there are people that would actually nod their heads and agree...Wow...
Paper Hand@122,
Interesting point - I think the way theologians find round it is that God is not "in time" - and knows and wills everything at once. This does still remove human free will of course.
Evolution? Biology? Cosmology? Physics? Now meteorology! Is there anything that jebus can't improve? On the upside, think of all the expensive university educations we no longer need.
Get yer goats and tents, we're going back to the first century.
Ever since the election, I have been wondering what happened to those christians who (first) encouraged mighty organized prayer that YHVH would send rain and storms upon Obama's outdoor acceptance speech in the Denver stadium (he didn't -- nice weather according to MY TV coverage). Then, for the forty days prior to the election they fasted and prayed that the verysame YHVH smite Obama with a mighty electoral defeat (if not in body as well). We all know how THAT turned out!!!
Well, now they are saying that the election of the "evil" Barack Hussein Obama is divine retribution of YHVH against the USA for turning away from his LAW and direction, such being in the same category of his wrath visiting us on 9/11 and Katrina. They view the election as directive to get to work to thwart the evil one.
"A Christian Perspective on Obama's Victory: Has Change Indeed Come?"
http://www.jeremiah7.com/the_jeremiah_7_weblog/a_christian_perspective_…
That's right! And Freddie Mercury wasn't really of Iranian descent, and he wasn't really gay.
Oooooh - the further through that thing I got the more my frontal lobes throbbed! I had to skim the last few panels... I feel dizzy...
"I felt a great disturbance in the Brain, as if millions of neurons suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible (or religious) has happened..."
'Real America, like Beaumnt'? Jefferson coiunty, (Beaumnt, PortArthur,) usually votes Dem. That is why it was Delay-mandered into three strips joined to Repub suburbs of Houston. As it happens, my favorite gay bar was ruined by Rita. Galveston was largely spaired by Rita, but not by Ike. Oh, traffic was not that bad during the Rita evac - bad but not THAT bad
According to the Chick map, the real Israel should contain most of Syria, part of Jordan, and probably the part of Egypt east of the Nile. Why aren't these xians clamoring for the return of the rest of god's country--that sounds like the name of biblical-theme amusement park.
Also, didn't god sent the huge tsunami a few years ago because Sweden loved teh gayz and some Swedes vacationed in Indonesia? He is getting old, isn't he.
I am trying to get federal funding for my study on how mobile homes actually cause tornadoes. This is not a coincidence, people.
I kept reading, waiting for a humorous punchline, which never came.
IT NEVER CAME.
"Behold the wrath of your God, Americans! Your president said/did something that, if seen in a specific way, might have a somewhat negative effect for the foreign policy of the state of Israel. So, My punishment will be swift and deadly... But not to him. Not against those who planned and executed this... inconvenience towards Israel. No, I will punish YOU. I will destroy your homes and property, drown your children, slay your loved ones and leave you wailing in agony and despair- just because your president pissed Me off. And, of course, because I CAN".
Yup, god is love alright.
Seriously, is this guy on drugs? And how are there people, even among the most hardcore fundies, that take him seriously and pass his slimy comics around?
NG: OOO seems redundant to me: an omnipotent being can know anything it wants, so is also omniscient.
PH: Actually, I'd say that omnipotent and omniscient are *contradictory* rather than redundant - an omniscient being, in order to be truly omniscient, would have to know everything, including him or herself - including what he/she would do in the future!
See, that's what you get for playing with nonsense words! Omniscient, omnipotent, or omnibenevolent is just throwing a prefix on a noun and thinking that because you can make a properly formed word it means anything at all.
It's just rhyme talk, like the schizophrenics do. If you try to put them into actual logical sense, you'll either have a psychotic break, or become a BS'er (insincere propagandist) like a theologian!
One of my favorite Chick tracts is "The Trick", which purports to explain the origin of Halloween. Predictably, it's riddled with innaccuracies. Here's a link to a site in which a pair of guys do a running mockery of it, a la "Mystery Science Theatre 3000"
http://www.angelfire.com/geek/csmitty/thetrick.html
They do a pretty good job pointing out how stupid it is, but miss my favorite detail: the parents just can't understand why their children are behaving so strangely.
I mean, let's see:
They went trick-or-treating, and one of their friends was murdered, and they nearly were.
The killer (or killers) is someone they know, who lives in the same neighborhood they do.
After nearly a year, the police haven't caught that killer.
So obviously, the ONLY explanation the adults can come up with for the kids' change in behaviour is-they're under a spell put on them by satan!
I know Chick's a wackaloon, but...seriously, wasn't he even paying attention to his OWN fictional story?
Super-kooks!
The same Israel that has become Hitler's best excuse for the Holocaust?
(No, I am not saying it justifies the Holocaust, but if Hitler had restricted the atrocities to only those with the funny hats and the plaits, it would have been somewhat less of a horror, maybe even advantageous for all in the region.)
Jack Chick is honestly the NUMBER ONE reason why I am an atheist today. THANKS, JACK CHICK!
That's completely ludicrous.
Since tornado alley runs up the center of the Babble Belt, and hurricanes often spawn tornadoes and only hammer the South, it's obvious that both hurricanes and tornadoes are Yahweh's retribution for bigotry and intolerance.
so let me get this straight... random Americans are being punished NOW, because the nation of Israel isn't (and has never been) the size that God says it should be...?
and that's supposed to make sense...?
I find the theory that God doesn't like republicans and therefore sent a hurricane during the GOP convention. Though, considering this was in Minnesota, he'd should have send a blizzard instead (though I suppose a hurricane in St. Paul would have been quite the obvious sign, too), but apparently god has now decided to be so subtle, he's barely distinguishable from normal weather.
I'm at a loss for words strong enough to express my disgust. You horrible, hrrible person.
I really am not kidding here, but when I began to read this I thought it was joke. I couldn't imagine anyone seriously saying something like, "Jesus HEARD me!". I was waiting for the punchline until I realized...well, it wasn't a joke. It was real.
Then I cried and began shivering in the corner. "Is there any normal people out there? Sanity? Where have you gone?"
WPRD: When you get funding for researching trailer parks and tornadoes, do not neglect the magnetic force that attracts the tornadoes. I was a proponent long ago for placing empty trailer parks out on the treeless prairie in Kansas, Oklahoma, and Nebraska to attract the tornadoes away from more populated areas. I hope you get the funding and actually are able to set up a pilot program to test this hypothesis.
All of which is important in understanding the ongoing land theft, concentration camp strategies in Gaza, murder, & outright genocide by the fundamentalist Zionists against the Palestinian people.
Fundamentalism in religion can be a horror alright.
Some great video on Christian and Zionist hardline fundamentalists.
All of which leads to the rapture for the believers.
Israel, of course, gets all the land from the Nile to the Euphrates.
I think that sweet Jesus comes back too and everybody has free shoes for life.
Israel gets the Palestinians land as per scripture.
The Palestinians are exterminated.
http://maxblumenthal.com/videos/
First, the Rookie opens his new hard hitting blog. Now Gerry is back. This blog has just upped the crazy.
At the Max Blumenthal website in blue above above click the video box entitled RAPTURE READY - Christians United for Israel.
Better than a cartoon but with real cartoon characters.
For anybody interested in the fundie Zionist part of this fundie cartoon post - here is a very basic introduction.
The Zionist Plan for the Middle East
Translated and edited by Israel Shahak
The Israel of Theodore Herzl (1904)
and of Rabbi Fischmann (1947)
In his Complete Diaries, Vol. II. p. 711, Theodore Herzl, the founder of Zionism, says that the area of the Jewish State stretches: "From the Brook of Egypt to the Euphrates."
Rabbi Fischmann, member of the Jewish Agency for Palestine, declared in his testimony to the U.N. Special Committee of Enquiry on 9 July 1947: "The Promised Land extends from the River of Egypt up to the Euphrates, it includes parts of Syria and Lebanon."
I had an uncle who thought like this.
What a waste of human potential.
He wasn't that smart, but his religion dumbed him down, bit-by-bit, until he resembled a turnip, intellectually speaking.
There are so many contradictions here, but don't be tempted to think that these could be pointed out effectively, they can't. The purveyors and audience of this nonsense cannot be persuaded.
Religion does not cause this kind of thinking, it just echoes it.
Exodus 33:23 And I will take away mine hand and thou shall see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.
This is god speaking to Moses.
There is a shot of god's bare ass in the Sistine Chapel.
Thou shall not covet thy god's ass.
It cracks me up that they have to make these stories in comic book format. It's telling that they have such low expectations of their readership's literacy.
Molly for Janine for that comment! :-)
... You know, I never thought about that, but you're right, it is an interesting point. And their expectations are probably justified - people who would want a higher level of discourse would be less likely to be swayed by his "logic", after all.
BC: So far I've raised $1.38 and one euro for my trailer/tornado project. It just keeps rolling in.
SC @28...
I hope you got the chance to see "God On Trial".
A group of Jewish men holding a trial to determine if god broke his covenant with the Jews by allowing them to be in Auschwitz awaiting the gas chambers. Very well written, and the acting is very good.
Watch for the bit about "free will", where a father is allowed to choose one of his three sons to save from being killed.
So, like, why aren't there tornadoes and hurricanes in Egypt, or Jordan?
I mean, if they're punishment for 'coming against' Israel?
Ah, Mr Chick. The one, the only. I can remember having the crap scared out of me at a very, very early age with this tat...
I think I know what to get my husband for christmas this year. A COLLECTION! To fill in the gaps in our bedside table collection 8-0 Woot! But then again, he finds them hilarious, whilst I find them aggravating beyond belief. Do I also PAY for the 'pleasure' and support the silly old bugger? They are all available online anyway...
@113 I think that only he has ever illustrated the tracts. His style has changed a lot over the years. But I may be wrong. Pleez can i haz some PZ inspired Tracts? You could even cast some of the regular trolls in them!! That would be way cool. Balls over the wall would be even better.
What I found bizarre about this one though, was that the "Grandpa" character had the sort of 'profile' that Chick generally uses to caricature Jews. (Well, the nose anyway - he usually resorts to the Hitler like ratty Jew)
Faceless God has always featured. It's the fundie streak, to piss off the idol worshipping Catholics, speaking of which....
@100 He has ALWAYS had it in for the Roman Catholics. One of the rare things we could be said to agree upon, but for all the wrong reasons...
Wackaloon.
Read a few with a Bible by your side, and notice that the verses he throws out for reading (not the quoted ones, but the ones he footnotes) are never even tangentially related to what he thinks they are.
N.B., a Bible by my side is one of my best resources for making those who claim the Bible as an important part of their lives look like ignorant asses.
The most humble man who ever lived,
Autumn
OMFSM!!
@113 My husband has just corrected me. There WAS another (possibly more) illustrator apparently in the 80's to 90's. But I am hoping that I am correct in saying that Chick WROTE them all.
Very sorry, stand corrected.
Cheers
We had one of those here in Scotland on Sunday. Does that help?
shonny@139,
You are more disgusting than Eric Atkinson and Piltdown Man combined.
# 100, # 160,
Chick also claims that Mohammed's Catholic wife invented Islam.
So that's what a Tract is!?
Never seen one before and now I know why.
Just can't believe that someone sits down and writes such rubbish.
re Chick's sect: I believe he is a non-denominational "bible believing" type of fundie. "Non-denominational" sometimes means open and liberal but in this case means hardcore, literalist protestants who see any sort of church structure above the individual congregation as tantamount to popery. I definitely remember a Chick tract hating on denominational protestants for not being true christians.
Mr. Metzger is that you?
Oh, there's one with almost no sophistry whatsoever. One word: ineffable.
It all looks self-contradictory and contradictory to reality to us because we Puny Humans™ are simply not smart enough to understand it. Neat, eh? Utterly unfalsifiable. Explains everything (and nothing at the same time).
LOL!
The 1989 Bay Area earthquake hit 20 minutes before the world series between the SF Giants and the Oakland A's. It was huge. Dozens died.
Obviously, God is a Cubs fan.
Oh, there's one with almost no sophistry whatsoever. One word: ineffable. It all looks self-contradictory and contradictory to reality to us because we Puny Humans™ are simply not smart enough to understand it.
As I understand it, that's the essence of the Calvinist approach to theodicy: no explanation of evil or suffering is necessary, because it's all part of God's divine plan and we can't understand it. It's a perfectly logically coherent argument, and can be reconciled with observed reality, but it's also a morally repugnant one, or at least it seems so to me.
A dualistic theism, with the universe defined in terms of the epic struggle between supernatural forces of good and evil, would seem equally logical and more palatable; it accounts both for our innate sense of morality and goodness, and for the fact that, accepting said standards of morality and goodness, both good and bad things happen.
But it's self-evident that God cannot be both fully omnipotent and, according to our moral standards, benevolent. If He is omnipotent, He is not benevolent according to our understanding; which begs the question of where we derive our innate sense of morality. Conversely, if He is benevolent but is engaged in struggle with the forces of evil, then He is, ipso facto, not fully omnipotent. I submit that the latter is a preferable interpretation.
#162 - You're thinking of Fred Carter. He still illustrates a lot of Chick tracts but, yes, Chick still writes them. Fred Carter is also black and so he did all o those "adapted for black audiences" ones first.
Re: Chick's particular flavor of Christianity. He is a Baptist, and non-denominational AFAIK. He's is also a KJV-only person, which means he thinks the KJV is the only accurate and divinely inspired translation of the bible.
The wikipedia article on Chick has a bit more info - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_T._Chick - and there are links to the articles on his particular religious ideas.
The hilarity in that is almost unbearable.
"Out of the whole Earth, God chose a tiny spot for himself"
Err... sorry ?
And why not a whole different planet, far far away? He can have it. I don't mind.
Well, I suppose that the Palestinians are screwed and that they'd better commit a collective suicide. Thanks, Jack, for "enlightening" us.
Thanks, saw it last night. I agree - it's worth watching. I'm sure t'll be on several more times this week.
Really, that part he'd be better off ignoring. He's just pointing out the absurdities in his faith there. God, the Creator of the Universe, Maker of All That Is, Seen and Unseen, chose one single person and his then-unborn descendants and one insignificant corner of one obscure planet around an average star in the outer reaches of a common galaxy?
Drew Zaun,
That's just what I was about to say. Of all the most beautiful pieces of the plant god could've chosen, he picks the most dried up, barren desert wastleland as his "holy land". Really, this god becomes less and less worthy of worship everyday day to me...
Aw. The fact he's defending Israel has him all confused about who to draw the big hook-noses on. I guess it ended up being the weather man?
I figure the blizzards in North & South Dakota were to punish them for voting for Republicans.
Doesn't it make you feel _safe_ to know that guns are flying off the shelves in the U.S.?
Autumn: I have six different bibles next to my computer. The fundies really get pissed when you use their books against them.
I bought all of the bibles at used-book stores for about $1.00 each.
"We thank you in advance!"
Grampy seems a little presumptuous, don't he?
Is "theodicy" a portmanteau of "theology" and "idiocy"?
If it isn't, it should be.
Is "theodicy" a portmanteau of "theology" and "idiocy"?If it isn't, it should be.
No. It refers to the area of theology which deals with the problem of evil from a theistic perspective.
Walton @183
Theology never deals with the problem of evil because theology discards the only logical conclusion before it even begins.
Whoops!
Blockquote fail
That's what I get for posting after midnight.
Funny how any disaster is immediately interpreted by fundies as confirmation of their pet ideologies. Thus, Katrina decimating New Orleans is an indication that the city was misbehaving in some way, or that it had a population of people with a different sexual orientation, or, well, whatever toots their horn. Ike strikes Galveston because - well, maybe God was just trying to further purify Texas. You never know. He works in Mysterious Ways. Never mind that God is evidently an equal-opportunity destroyer, with absolutely no surgical precision in His Wrathful Targeting.
Or take the Space Shuttle Columbia. It disintegrates over Texas (with an Israeli astronaut on board too) just before plans to invade Iraq are put into effect. Isn't it passing strange nobody had the imagination (or balls) to interpret that "shot across the bow of the ship-of-state" as God's message that He was very displeased with W's plans? If they did, it must have been strenuously suppressed, because I certainly never heard or saw anything about it. Sure can't trust that sneaky media...
The D&D thing (which I'd somehow missed before now) is stunning in its illogic even for Chick. If D&D really granted the super k00l powerz shown there, why are D&D players still pasty-faced geeks in bedrooms?[1] They should be running the world!
(OK, perhaps they can't conquer the nations of Real True Christians because of the Awesome Power of the Lord with bad aim, but there are lots of other nations: why aren't they all run by D&D players?)
I know, I know. Looking for logic in a Chick tract is a recipe for frustration...
[1] I say this as a pasty-faced geek, but I'm in my living room.