Got your popcorn and jujubes? Ready for the clown show? The debate begins shortly, and this is the place to leave your comments.
Half an hour in, and I'm seeing Biden being good and specific with facts at his fingertips, and doing a good job of answering questions with substance. Palin is an airhead who's spouting more fluff and ignoring the questions — she keeps going back to energy and pretending she's an expert. It's very annoying, but she's not descending into fumbling babble-babble, so I'm sure the audience is going right along with it. Come on, Biden, slam her back on the futility of thinking Alaska's relatively tiny oil reserves can save the country.
Jebus, now she's pretending to be an environmentalist.
I'm really disappointed that Biden wants to deny homosexual marriage, just like Palin.
Oh, no. SHe just praised Henry Kissinger and claimed that those foreigners hate our freedoms. She's another Bush.
I'm happy with Biden so far — he's good at bringing everything back to McCain's record. Palin just fudges McCain's record at every step.
Man, Palin is revolting: she just said that all those Washington insiders are the same (including McCain?) and that Joe Biden has been approving of McCain's war plans all along. Ugh.
And if she claims she's a maverick one more time … she's a Republican tool, get real.
WILL SOMEBODY PLEASE TELL PALIN THAT ALASKAN OIL RESERVES ARE NOT SUFFICIENT FOR ENERGY INDEPENDENCE?
Shining city on a hill, beacon perfect, force for good...empty, dishonest platitudes. We're not going to become a better country with a gladhander who thinks we're already perfect in charge.
Oh, good! Biden charges up and denounces this "maverick" nonsense. Best part of the debate so far.
Palin just said she likes being able to answer these tough questions -- she hasn't answered a single one the whole hour and a half, but has been ducking and skipping and dodging.
All over. Biden clearly won — he sounded presidential, human, intelligent, and actually addressed the questions without being too harsh on Palin. Palin was a flag-waving cheerleader, with a voice that really grated on me, and she was evasive in answering questions. She didn't pull any major gaffes, though, so since everyone had exceedingly low expectations for her, they'll probably think she did fine.
No big knockout, then. No huge embarrassing boo-boos from either side to keep the media entertained. I'm still mostly reassured that Biden will be good in the job.
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Can't wait. I'm hoping that Biden doesn't go too far and that everyone gives Palin a free pass just because she's an idiot...
Can't watch - Embryology exam tomorrow
:(
I'm usually not one to watch politics...but i might have to sit on the couch and watch this freak show. I can's help but think that Caribou Barbie is just there to distract us from something else...but either way...this should be fun to see!
Sadly, there won't be a real debate, since nothing that comes out of Palin's mouth could hope to be remotely intelligent.
Oh, I wish I could see Palin make a fool of herself, but alas, I have the first round of my PhD qualifying exams tomorrow. Apparently they are important, which means I need to stop procrastinating on here. Here's hoping our man Biden doesn't stick his foot in his mouth.
Guys, don't underestimate her. :P She never lost a debate in Alaska. She's an idiot, but she knows how to connect with a crowd. This won't be like the Presidential debate, there won't be many exchanges between the candidates. She's going to be adorable, and the American public loves adorable.
As you'd normally expect that both candidates for a high office aren't entirely stupid, it is seen as rude if one candidate calls the other one an "idiot", or his utterings "bullshit".
Sadly, we have reached a state where these two words are very appropriate and accurately describe reality. But of course, it still counts as rude to say so. This makes it so easy for idiots in debates: What they say is crap, but the other one will not be able to call it crap...
Anybody want to bet that the first words out of Karl Rove's mouth after the debate are, "Governor Palin did an excellent job, despite Gwen Eiffel obvious basis against her." And then complain about the sexist nature of the questions.
I doubt anyone will miss much first hand. Tomorrow's high lights and the propaganda spin whores will result in the best dog and pony show of the year, I'm betting.
Here is an audio link if you don't want to stare at the TV.
I'll be stealing lines here, btw.
http://stream.kpft.org/streamkpft.m3u
also driving down to the station and will be taking some phone calls prolly around 10:30 Central
713 526 5738 if you want to call in
It's very late here in the UK -- this better be entertaining!
No prisoners, Joe ...
I can wait until it's over and just catch the Sarah Palin bloopers real on youtube afterwards.
I'm so excited! This has been a stressful week, so I am really looking forward to a night of laughs. Good luck on your exam tomorrow, Claire!
We're having bio grad students over for the fun! Hopefully a good show. Will probably be frightening, though... If nothing else, SNL should be good this week.
http://www.palinbingo.com/
Get your Palin Bingo cards for the big event! I love Mudflats!
McCain is advertising that he already won the debate. Sure he's not in the debate but he's such a maverick, he doesn't need to be.
Palin is currently praying to Jesus she gets a lot of questions involving how much she loves kittens and puppies.
Boing Boing says C-Span uses a split screen so both candidates can be seen at the same time.
> Palin is currently praying to Jesus she gets a lot of questions involving how much she loves kittens and puppies.
HA!
What could be more pointless than to watch two idiots debate?
EV @ 9 Tomorrow's high lights and the propaganda spin whores will result in the best dog and pony show of the year
You betcha, I'll be producing tonight and tomorrow, if you can think of some clever propaganda spin whoring (either direction) post it here and I'll air it.
-Dogan Pony
PS I might have to steal that Caribou Barbie, it's a milk through the nose line for sure.
Since stupid is perfectly socially acceptable in the US as long as it comes as cutesy stupid,I hold rather grave fears about the whole thing.
So Miss South Carolina wasn't cutesy stupid?
I wish I could watch, but they cleverly scheduled all the remaining debates during classes of mine. :( I'll pick it up on YouTube.
I see a few possibilities here, and I'll express them in order from most to least likely:
1. Palin will prove to be at least an adequate "debater" (who are we kidding, these aren't debates), and the event will be much more boring than the ensuing commentary.
2. Same as #1, except that Biden will suffer one or more momentary lapses of foot-in-mouth syndrome.
3. Palin will be just as disarmingly uninformed and unprepared as she has been for her TV interviews, and hilarity will ensue.
4. Same as #3 except that Biden, out of frustration that he's been put up against this insufferable lightweight, will blow his top and end up looking like a big crazy meanie.
5. Palin will finally throw back this veil, to reveal that she's actually a savvy politician who's been playing us all for fools.
Any way I look at it, this should be good entertainment!
I'm pulling for Spiro.
It's Tivo for me; I have ballet tickets tonight. (Two new Twyla Tharp pieces; not going to pass that up for Sarah Pale in Comparison.)
Do ya mind if I call ya Joe?
Let the bloodbath begin.
And here we go...
For starters, they picked the wrong moderator: should've been Simon Cowell.
Well... it's my middle name but ok.
Hey no one said main street yet.
She made a soccer mom reference first question :S
She just called me an Ammmaryican
Moderator mentioned her title in the Intro,not his...
She's talking right into the camera,has already said "betcha",and got to respond to the economy second,how nice of the moderator!
it took her a whole 60 seconds to say Betcha...
: P The Palin side is falling down, falling down, falling down...
MAVERICK
DRINK!!!!!
And 90% of McCain's voting record?
I can't here the word maverick any more.
Is there a drinking game for this debate? Cause I need a drink...
She's throwin' out the slices of apple pie already
Lipstick on a cat?
"darn right"," Joe Sixpack"
Im not sure I can stand this for much longer,the woman is absurdly pathetic.
Anyone watching the graphs on CNN? its insane.
Joe Six Pack
Hockey Mom
Drink TWICE!!!
Wow, she really evoked an audience reaction on that last bit.
You have no idea how much TV sucks right now. On american channels the VP debate... and on canadian channels the Canadian "Debate" with 5 people. A debate with 5 party chiefs! It's like a train wreck right there.
So I'm stuck watching Wild Wild West on a third rate channel.
I'm watching it on PBS. So far, no graphs, loud "reporters," charts, or any other bullshit. Just pure "debate."
Palin will finally throw back this veil,
I'd rather she threw back all seven veils, if you know what I mean.
Biden looks tired.
11 minutes and and it's BORING! Dammit!
BBC Rocks! ;)
Ha, love it!
Soooo, any Canadians out there watching our leaders' debate right now??
If she says "darn" one more time ....
TALK STRAIGHT?
I THINK SHE MEANS STRAIGHT TALK.
Down your current drink.
I'm watching it on PBS. So far, no graphs, loud "reporters," charts, or any other bullshit. Just pure "debate."
Eh, I sort of like CNN react-o-meter from their captive audience of undecided.
I just don't see how you can watch that crap. Her voice makes me physically ill to say nothing of her "opinions". I'll just have a pint of Guinness, listen to some Machine Head to drown it out (my wife and sisters-in-law are watching), and put my kids new train table together.
She just said outright she's going to dodge questions.
Breath Joe, breath. CSpan has split screen, it is very cool to see their reactions to one another. Why does Palin keep winking?
I've been watching less than 5 minutes and I've already heard Palin say 'maverick'.
Sarah Palin -
John McCain and I, John McCain and I, John McCain and I, John McCain and I, John McCain and I, John McCain and I, John McCain and I, John McCain and I, John McCain and I, John McCain and I.
Joe spiked for a second there on the quasi-socialist rhetoric.
When it dropped I was sad.
Eh, I sort of like CNN react-o-meter from their captive audience of undecided.
Is that what that is? I thought they had put up Windows' CPU performance.....
she dodged the health care tax question
You betcha.
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2008/10/masterdebating-by-digby-i-am-out…
C-Span, you're my new best friend.
I wonder what Biden's thinking...
Middle Class? She's worth about a million.
More regulation, but government should get out of the way.
I have to admit, these debates always make me start thinking Ayn Rand was on to something.
Biden mentioned Scranton! DRINK!
Arrggghhhh...I could only watch the first 15 minutes. She has already said that she isn't interested in the questions posed by the moderator or by Biden. She pulled out her resume and told folksy stories but failed once again to offer ANY plan or truly respond to any questions. I can't stand it any more, if I watch more, I'll puke.
Biden is getting fed up with her show and her lies with a smile.And she has him where she wants him.This is going badly.
point Biden----- Bridge to Nowhere
DRINK!!
I'm watching the Canadian debate. It's a pile-on.
Middle Class? She's worth about a million.
So am I. Big deal. That *is* middle class in Southern California. :-)
Biden does seem to be getting fed up with Palin. But he is talking straight I think.
Careful, you are only a few steps away from becoming Scott from Oregon. ;)
Biden keeps being very specific and pulling in statistics.
If politics was about being right and not sounding right, he would be far in the lead.
I love Joe's detailed description of the McCain healthcare plan. And, those of us who are lucky enough to be insured know that our current healthcare is completely determined by the insurance companies. I've heard so many horror stories about needed healthcare procedures and medicine being denied by the insurance company...and since healthcare is so outrageously expensive here, if insurance won't pay for it, only the wealthy can afford it.
again and again I wonder how anyone finds this Bible Spice in any way attractive.
Biden keeps being very specific and pulling in statistics.
If politics was about being right and not sounding right, he would be far in the lead.
Bless their hearts!!! Drink.
Can someone please explain the uncommitted voters meter on CNN? What's the + and - mean?
Quiet Desperation
You'd be stinky rich in Central Illinois! :-)
Is there a drinking game for this debate? Cause I need a drink...
Yes. Everytime somebody says "tax", then everybody go ahead and drink some booze.
OMG. Palin's bullshit about the oil companies is soooo deep. Now I know why her eyes are brown
Can i drink now????
Careful, you are only a few steps away from becoming Scott from Oregon. ;)
Nah, it's just a "this is the best and brightest we can get?" feeling. You see, my skepticism solidly covers government and politics.
No truly smart people run for office anymore. Who wants their past mined by ten thousand journalists looking for dirt?
darn
DARN IT
DARN
Bless their hearts
She's doing better than I thought. But, at thirty minutes in, I think the collapse will begin, and at forty-five minutes in, she's going to throw her shoe.
After that, Biden eats kittens for the remainder of the time while answering questions about his penis, and still wins the debate.
Sweet Jebus, I hate this woman. I didn't feel like getting drunk before. But, now I may have to go get some scotch. Especially now that Biden has praised Palin.
She's almost there. Biden better duck 'cause that shoe is going straight for his head.
Please have an education or religion question.
Can we drink every time some one say, "greed and corruption"?
Cracked me up when Palin said that John McCain doesn't say one thing to one group and the opposite to another group. I guess she doesn't listen to him either.
She's just so adorable. I just wish I was not too stupid to understand why her answers really do address the question.
They're both lying through their teeth.
I know that feeling. Beaurocrats with ambition and charismatic morons.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job." - Douglas Adams
Ah the poor dear. After a couple of more or less coherent answers she starting to babble. Tiring already...
Sorry about the double post - my "mouse" finger twitches and I accidentally hit "Post" twice
She is so nasal.
Biden keeps being very specific and pulling in statistics.
If politics was about being right and not sounding right, he would be far in the lead.
I heard bits of yesterday's french debate this morning on the radio. Imagine these folks you see piling on right now.... Now add up a very very bad french for three of them, a pathetic speech from the two others. Now make them talk together and scream at each other like animals all at the same time. HI.LA.RI.OUS.
And sad. Very very sad.
Is it just me, or does Palin sound like she's speaking to a group of small children?
It would be nice if she stayed on topic for ONE fucking question.
She will come of better because she keeps changing to topics she is prepared for.
East coast politicians!!!
For the general viewing public, I think the substance is coming too think and fast for them to figure anything out. At the surface, Palin gives the appearance of holding her own. That's essentially what she needs to do. At this point it's looking like a draw. No apparent gaffs by either of them. But it's only 30 minutes into the thing so far.
Someone please, please, please mention breeder reactors and recycling nuclear fuel. Please? Pebble bed? Anything?
I don't want to argue about... ummm... health care. Let's not argue about health care. Okay, Joe? Can I call you joe? I will hit you in the head with my shoe.
Oh no.... Global warming. I am surprised that she didn't put her fingers in her ears and go "nanananananana"
Biden said nuclear!!!!!!! Score! DRINK!
Is Palin aware that there are some states that are not Alaska?
And meth... There's a f*ckload of meth in Wasilla.
did she say obiden?
Did she just say "Senator O'Biden"????
"Clean" coal and "safe" nuclear. Good one. 100,0000,000,0000,0 points.
She doesn't care what the causes are for climate change? Everyone drink thrice for Drill Baby Drill!
Her babbling about drilling brainlessly...
*headdesk*
Capital Dan:
That "hit you with a shoe" joke is on a bridge to nowhere. Or should be.
Hehehe.... Barack Obama and Senator Obiden.
Did she just say senator O'Biden?
Palin isn't answering hardly any questions. She keeps changing off topics back to what she prepared for.
Sure that will come off as her holding her own to "joe sixpack" but it is blatantly obvious she is lost.
ooh. a gay question.
this should be good.
Ah, screw these two.
I propose a Manhattan Project level of effort to exploit the Green River oil shales.
Billions of barrels in Alaska, Palin?
Try TRILLIONs of barrels in the oil shales if we could develop the tech to exploit it. THREE TIMES the current Saudi Arabian reserves.
There. I owned both those bitches.
Ooo... Same sex!
Palin's going to ask to phone a friend.
ohh. a gay question.
I hope you're being ironic.
What is the red-star pin she's wearing?
Wow! Good for Biden for answering the same-sex couple question unequivocally!!
'gay friend' comment coming
yay for same sex benefits
ooohh... redefining "marriage".
Same sex marriage! And Palin takes a nose dive.
I watched the french one too. Total cacophony. Elizabeth May is making some solid points, Harper is weathering the storm, Layton sounds like a cereal box, Duceppe reminds us that noone else suggests the things his party suggests, and Dion lays claim to all that is and ever has been good in Canada.
You have to admit though... they're actually arguing about policy. You know, in between the jabbering dung-flinging.
Odd. Biden just tried to buy a vowel.
She's sponsored by Lone Star beer.
So does Biden.. wtf?
No, it's not wonderful...
Palin claims to have a "very diverse" group of friends. Why, I'm sure that some of her best friends are even gay!
Neither Barack Obama or I do not support Gay marriage. Both freakin losers.
What is wrong with these people about same sex marriage? What do they see in our society that makes them think that there is anything sacred or special about hetro marriage? What are we up to now, 2 in 3 marriages ending in divorce?
"traditional" meaning christian
American hero, drink!!
Gay Marriage. Both Fail. Grrrrr....
Senator O'Biden? DRINK!
Way to sidestep the issue of whether she agrees on equal civil rights for gay/straight couples.
she's got one hell of a script
Gay Marriage. Both Fail. Grrrrr....
"With all due respect, I didn't hear a plan." Good one, Joe!
Palin just said she supported completely equal status for gay couples - short of marriage (she has "non-support" for that) - under the law!
Ah, WHAT?????
John McCain can't be bothered with winning a war when he's too damn busy trying to start another one.
"Way to sidestep the issue of whether she agrees on equal civil rights for gay/straight couples."
The Obama / Biden ticket did the same. And that's traditional, meaning between a man and women.
I'm not watching, but by refreshing Pharyngula every couple of minutes, it's almost like being there. Except I don't have to listen to her talk.
Here come the Flags
___________________________
HockeyMom Pitbull
Even the Dems can't publicly support gay marriage for fear of pissing off the religious right. Sad sad sad.
Man, Supernatural is GREAT tonight.
I'm refreshing Pharyngula often, too, Sven. I'm surprised at how quickly people are keeping up with the candidates' words; usually within a few seconds.
it's almost like being there.
Palin just go a double jeopardy question for $500.
um, aren't there lots of troops that are begging for the USA's "white flag of surrender"? who is she talking about?
How is leaving Iraq "a white flag of surrender" when we were "greeted as liberators"? What's there to surrender to?
I love it that Joe keeps reminding everyone that John McCain voted the same way as Obama on so many of these issues.
Wait... this isn't the latest episode of Fringe?
I find it so hard to even watch this. I almost feel like I have to watch this out of some sense of trying to be informed, but it's so hard to listen to that worthless "pig with lipstick" babble on incoherently. I want to be able to laugh at her vacuous nonsense but the fact that her statements will be believed by many morons out there is too scary for this to be funny.
Here comes the shoe...
biden is doing well in attacking mccaine and not palin
Both of them are talking about McCain more than anything.
Haha. I *just* switched to watching Fringe here: http://www.watchtvsitcoms.com/fringe.php
How is leaving Iraq "a white flag of surrender" when we were "greeted as liberators"?
But we need to stay until the Iraqis can take care of themselves... sometime in the year 2650 when Zephram Cochrane invents the warp drive.
Biden has said "god" like 5 times. I haven't heard Palin say "god" once(I don't think...). Not what I thought it would be like.
I wasn't sure about Biden before this, but I think that he is holding his own very well. Call me a geek, but I love facts and figures.
Arrrgh!! New-Cue-lar
JC
She played the Israel card! Drink!
Biden has said "god" like 5 times. I haven't heard Palin say "god" once(I don't think...). Not what I thought it would be like.
I don't like it when Palin gets to speak second -- she just mumbles a quick answer and gets back to her prewritten talking points.
Even the Dems can't publicly support gay marriage for fear of pissing off the religious right
I don't think it is for fear of pissing off the religious right, I think they really cannot get behind equal rights for gay men and women. Deep down, they just think it is wrong.
If I hear that woman say "nuke-u-ler" one more time, I'm going to scream!!!!!!
The Castro Brothers! I like that, actually. :-)
Palin can say "nuclear" correctly, I'll give her that.
How do we surrender when the mission has been accomplished?
NEW CLEAR! NEW CLEAR!!!!
New-cu-lure
DRINK!!!
___________________________________
HockeyMom Pitbull
At least her lipstick looks nice.
they hate our freedom
They hate America, drink.
Kissinger, blah, loves diplomacy, blah. WTF was that?
she said respect for womens rights !!!!!!!!!! the dictators hate us for !!!!!!!!
*Ironymeter implode*
Wait... it's dangerous to talk and try to make peace with your enemies? What the fuck??
ahh... women's rights. gloria steinem is loving it
She's literally reading off her notes!
Biden is taking exactly the best tack in dealing with this stupid ignoramus: glib but smooth; respectful but quick to foil any bullshit and riposte with facts against McCain.
He needs to simply wear her down and make her shoot for the big gaffe on her own. I give it a 50/50 chance now (despite the notes and cramming, however well-cribbed).
"I love it that Joe keeps reminding everyone that John McCain voted the same way as Obama on so many of these issues."
Do you mean "Bush" when you said "Obama"? I'm not watching or listening to the debate either, I'm at work and it would just distract me and angry up the blood. The occasional refresh here is fine enough for me.
haha, back-ye-up-there!
NEW CLEAR! NEW CLEAR!!!!
I heard her say it right. Was I wrong? :-)
Palin: Other countries hate America! They hate our freedoms! And our rights and such!
Really? Or do they hate us because we're international bullies who invade sovereign countries for our own national financial interests?
HAHAHAHA, Sarah Palin just mentioned women's rights. Wow, I'm stunned by the size of her balls.
Ref: At least her lipstick looks nice.
Because it's tattoo makeup...from her sister-in-law's buety salon.
(1) I'll just bet that Kissinger shared his passion with her.
(2) How dare she criticize anyone for their stance on women's rights!!!
Yes, Biden's position on gay marriage is still weak. He did say no support for gay marriage, but was saying there should be no civil difference between gay/straight rights.
She said she was "tolerant" but did not specifically say that there would be no civil difference. She said she wouldn't impose a view - which leaves it up to ambiguity at the state level.
When it bounced back to Biden, he said that it sounded like they agreed - that there should be no civil difference between gay/straight rights. And that he did not support gay marriage.
When asked if this was correct, she agreed she does not support gay marriage (doesn't want to change the definition of one-man, one-woman). (And ignoring the 1st half of equal civil rights)
--
Again. The dem response was weak, but confirmed at least a national position of advancing rights (but not title) to both gay/straight. She did not make that claim.
No, we actually mean Obama. Voting as a Senator, as with McCain.
She still can't pronounce 'NUCLEAR'
Could it be a calculated, rehersed gimic to make her apear 'homey'
Joe, Bush isn't running again. I'm just sayin.
Israel is a peace-seeking nation? Wow, glad to hear that. WTF?
Lying hag. Israel is nothing but a tool for the second coming for her.
Marriage is much more than a title.
Women's rights. Really? Wow.
#196 - Bu--sh-- IS running again, under the name John McCain.
Save us the "Republican" horseshit.
"Palin: Other countries hate America! "
Jeez, is this talking point still making the rounds? Everybody needs to listen to David Cross's riff on it until their heads are on straight.
Maverick!
"Blame game". Is that a drinkable phrase? "Reform!" "We'll learn!" "Forge ahead!"
An Israeli Pander War just broke out-----
_______________________________
HockeyMom Pitbull
@Sioux Laris
I said I was just sayin
I'm no GOPer, sport.
Sarah Palin supports the right for a 13 year old girl who is raped by her father to live the rest of her life as a single mother.
Okay, she's definitely saying 'nuke-u-lar' and she's consistent with it, it's not just a flub.
"If I hear that woman say "nuke-u-ler" one more time, I'm going to scream!!!!!!"
UGHHH, she just said it again, like 4 times!
Rey Fox @186 - no, I meant Obama. She keeps pulling that old trick of saying that "X voted this way, so he is evil" when her own evil overlord voted the exact same way. It's like in the last election when they kept slamming Kerry for "voting against" new weapons. The votes they were referring to were on issues that Dick Cheney did not support and spoke publicly against because we had better and newer weapons in the pipeline. Sorry - I know I'm not writing at my best - it's hard to do this while trying to listen to the debate.
topic change again
"I prepared for this thing we haven't covered, mind if is changed topics again?"
"Surge principles". Can someone enlighten me as to what that means?
Women's rights. Really? Wow.
There *was* a surge for Afghanistan... except Bush sent it to Iraq. :-)
When does the lightning round start? Are questions worth double yet?
So glad he love Israel too? I think she loves Israel for a different reason, something involving the end of the world and Jesus coming back.
Every time she said "nuke-u-ler" I cringed.
I stopped watching. Her lines are always low (with the odd one or two times it's been slightly below Biden's usual) and it's just painful. Pitifully painful.
Joe's getting pissed.
Biden just won the living room set. Plain's holding out for Door #2.
we have nukes as "a deterrent", but anyone else who has them is a terrorist? really?
"Surge principles". Can someone enlighten me as to what that means?
euphemism for escalation
Isn't adding more money and troops a surge principle?
I think I'll stop now. I mean really, watching South Park is more useful (and less of a time sink) than watching this... "debate."
Bosniaks? Really??
BOSNIACS !!!
BWAHAHAHAHAAAAAA
Sarah Palin is making faces over there. Can she not even control her face?
Damn it! Where's my train wreck? I paid for a train wreck!
"I'm just not used to the way you guys talk..." My, isn't she precious?
What an awful "debate". Palin says a lot of lies and nonsense and Biden has to correct her. It's all about "sounding good". I can't believe there are Americans out there who still consider voting Republican.
"washington outsider"
it's so obvious.
People can change their minds. In fact, last night, McCain voted for the bailout, and this morning, he said George Bush should veto it.
She is so used to talking like Bush though!
What the hell is she talking about?
Straight talk express......If I didnt have to work,I would get drunk,this is unbearable
Did he really say Bosniacs? I missed it.
Genocide? BORING! Someone ask about NASA.
I tried following the live blog on Think Progress for a while, but this thread is just so much more entertaining. Good work everyone.
Oh gee golly gosh... I'm just a Washington outsider.
*curtsy*
For fucks sake Palin it's nuclear NOT nucUlear.
Quiet_Desperation @#165
I feel I must correct my honorable colleague by pointing out that the first successful flight flight of a warp drive ship designed and built by Zefram Cochrane was in 2063.
What Iraq will be like then is anybody's guess, of course.
Good idea...
They hate us for our freedoms? Give me a fucking break. They hate us for many reasons. Our freedoms aren't on the list. They hate us because we're over there. They hate us because we're not muslim. They hate us because we're geo-politically arrogant. They hate us because we're hypocritical, preaching human rights and tolerance yet getting into the sack with the Saudi regime because it suits our purpose. They hate us because we're the Great Satan. They hate us because they're insane.
I can't watch anymore of this frakkin "debate." One 'nukular' mouther hockey mother too many. I'm going to take the rum bottle route to heartburn instead of this drivel.
How to win a war? Crash three planes and get caught?
FAIL
oh man she fumbled huge on that.
I can't believe I'm watching this at 4 a.m... but I have to say, it's worth it to see Biden in action for once.
I also can not believe the constant "you guys", "oh mans", the barrage of "nucular"s and the blatant topic changes coming from Palin. How on earth did she even manage to become mayor with that speaking style?
John McCain -- who knows how to win a war --
Bwa ha ha ha
Very few people piss me off as much as this moron trying to become our VP, getting a free pass because she is a woman and it's sexist to criticize her. This is insane, this woman just called Biden someone who said, "I was for it before I was against it," Despite the fact that it has been shown time and time again she did that same thing with The Bridge to Nowhere. Now she is trying to call Biden a liar despite the fact that she has been caught time and time agian in outright bold-faced bullshitting.
Is this the fallout from the debate already: http://www.electoral-vote.com/ ?
The numbers make me a bit happier today...
John McCain knows how to win a war?!? Where did he learn that?
Apparently "Bosniak" is a real word. Learn something new every day....
Happy to see her approval lines flatlined through that whole 'John McCain has been to war and knows evil' emotional appeal. Maybe people are finally getting tired of that crap.
Excuse me Joe, you knew who would conduct the war, you voted for the war, to claim you're against it now, is nonsense.
i'm SUPPOSED to be in my "evolution of sex and gender" class, but instead me and my 150+ classmates are watching this on a gigantic screen. there is no escape
John McCain knows how to win a war???? That dumbass crashed FIVE PLANES.
You don't win wars by crashing planes and getting taken prisoner-----see opening speech from Patton
______________________________
HockeyMom Pitbull
Who, other than the 28% knuckle-draggers and mouth-breathers (My lack-of-god! She just brought up Alaska oil in talking about Darfur!), will buy the palin line here? She literally says "McCain & I will/are/were (insert good word/s). Obama is (insert evil word/s here)."
New one! McCain "personally" knows how to "win a war"! I don't recall McCain being old enough to have served in WWII.
Please, please, please everyone. If you don't already, go to Factcheck.org and Politifact.com and double-check everything you hear candidates on either side say during this campaign. Don't take anything at face value. There, I'm done. Off my soapbox and back to the debate
Whenever Joe talks, his positives go way up. Whenever Sarah talks, the line stays pretty much neutral.
It's like watching a two legged stool, leaning against something fragile that is about to shatter...
American hubris masks its own frailty.
From the religious to the blind Democrat and the dumb Republican, America is a red carpet to the backlot of unfurling idiocy, and we'll just keep borrowing and spending until we are an empty paper tube of what used to make us a pretty gosh darn solid piece of real estate...
Washington Outsider - she's more of a Reality Outsider.
#249: Freud: so is "Polack", and in Poland, it is not even an insult...
TEAM of MAVERICKS.
Does that count as two drinks?
Hey, O'Biden got a date right!
'A team of mavericks"
*headdesk*
Whover said that deserves to be euthanised.
Drinking game....every time Palin says "also" mid sentence, drink...you would have been very drunk very early in the debate
Bosniaks are a real people; that wasn't a gaffe, go look it up. He knows what he's talking about.
#244 - Remember, mayor of a town that is dramatically smaller than an average state university (or aircraft carrier's crew)...
Why do this to yourself? Just turn your tv off. You already know who the idiots are.
@248 Why the Hanoi Hilton of course, he saw the victors plan their strategy.
/ducks
Sweet zombie jesus she said maverick again...a team of them.
Everyone going ballistic over her pronunciation of nuclear please calm down. Having a heart attack in the middle of a cartoon means you miss the rest of the fun. It also means I would have to change the channel from the Myth Busters to the debate to get the rest of the story.
I wish John McCain would share his knowledge of how to win a war, since he certainly has kept it a secret till now.
@226
seriously. I want blood.
Oh no wasila main street, head about to explode!!!!!
@Jorg: http://www.pollster.com - It's been that way for around a week or two.
Whenever Joe talks, his positives go way up. Whenever Sarah talks, the line stays pretty much neutral.
Palin: 'What do you expect from a team of mavericks?' *wink*
-gag-
*Palin winks*
Drink!!
There's been a couple of occasions where she seemed at a loss for words when called on to reply to what Biden said. She got back on script fairly quickly but it made Biden look the stronger.
"oooh, say it ain't so, Joe!" Yup, definitely adorable. Gag!!!
say it ain't so, joe!
My favorite part so far is when she corrected Biden when he was mocking the simplicity of the oil drilling mantra. I had a sudden flash of a cheerleader who just wanted to get the cheer right.
Heaven-Drink!
MMMMM MMMMMMM
eat up that good Wasilla Apple Pie
About his dead wife: "Her reward is in heaven, right?" Oh man, she was trying...but, OW...
Home town values! DRINK!
Scranton! DRINK!
Alcohol poisoning! PASS OUT!
Oh no... 'her reward is in heaven'. Barf.
*Palin winks*
Drink!!
The Palin drinking game will kill you. Better stop while you are alive.
"Oh, say it ain't so, Joe!"
I think I'm going to cry now.
If we pick on the "nuculer" mispronunciation, let's include her backwoods accented "EYE-rock" and "EYE-ran" as well.
Uh-oh... She's getting cocky.
"say it ain't so joe"?
wha happuh to America?
@226
seriously. I want blood.
My favorite part so far is when she corrected Biden when he was mocking the simplicity of the oil drilling mantra. I had a sudden flash of a cheerleader who just wanted to get the cheer right.
Everyone going ballistic over her pronunciation of nuclear please calm down.
I'm not even hearing it. Oh no... maybe she's getting to me!
I'VE BEEN HIP-MO-TIZED! HEP ME! SOMEONE PLEASE HEP ME!
(my bad paraphrase of SNL's most recent Palin skit)
Ye gods, We're overloading SB's comment server!
That would be poetry if it made any sense at all.
"her reward is in heaven"? Damn. Sucks to be a teacher I guess.
My god. {{shiver}}. That plastered cutesy smile and a wink is supposed to overshadow the fluff? The horror of her actually leading the country ... sorry I need alcohol!
he said Scranton again - double shot
Now she's Reagun! "There you go again!" We'll be hearing about "Quemoy and Matsu" ala the SCTV mayoral debate.
Her kids are "public school participants." And she was "joking" about not even knowing what the VP does. If true (it isn't) it could be the greatest example of deadpan humor ever recorded.
From the religious to the blind Democrat and the dumb Republican, America is a red carpet to the backlot of unfurling idiocy, and we'll just keep borrowing and spending until we are an empty paper tube of what used to make us a pretty gosh darn solid piece of real estate...
Scott, that soapbox is way to big for you to stand on.
better step down before you fall and break your neck.
daenku32 @286
*Palin winks*
Ironic: 'not blinking' is one of her buzzwords
___________________________________
HockeyMom Pitbull
@Kel, I think it was W who first said it. Might wanna be careful, he's still got 3 months in office to toss you into Gitmo.
@Hubris Hurts, excellent suggestion. I might offer this one:
TAKE NOTHING FOR GRANTED! VOTE!!!
@ Capital Dan
"John McCain knows how to win a war?!?"
Sure thing, she even explained why: "He knows EVIL"
I cringe every time the word 'evil' comes out of the mouth of a republican.
McCain knows how to win a war?
Like Vietnam?
Gov. Palin, isn't it true that you get more adorable the harder you're being pushed?
Yeah, but don't feed her after midnight or spill water on her.
Whover said that deserves to be euthanised.
I couldn't agree more. Can we impeach him first?
We are so screwed! Palin is good enough to "skirt" the issues and dance around the hard facts and the hard issues, specifically addressing points Biden has brought up.
Biden keeps on doing his deep, heavy sighs (in frustration) is simply showing the "average 6-pack male" and "soccer mom" that he is becoming frustrated with a "woman" and it is going to turn these very voters in this country against Obama.
Palin scares me more than McCain ever could. Her finger is "on the button" and if she gets a chance, she will.
OMGS, do I need any more excuses to become stupendously bombed?!
She speaks with the "well, gosh darn it" reply continuously mixed with well spoken replies, and this is a "mom-speak" that so many people in this country are so desperate to hear because they are at their worst and most vulnerable.
Well, I just got another excuse to crack open that last bottle of Sapphire.
Sob, I can't stand it.
Palin's flag pin is much bigger and more sparkly than Biden's flag pin. She must love 'Merica much more than Biden.
Wow! Joe just said that Cheney is the most dangerous Vice President the US has ever had. Yay!!! He said it out loud and everything!
*hic*
Oh damn, he totally nailed the OVP question! YES.
She's an Oil and Gas Regulator PEOPLE!!! OIL AND GAS REGULATOR!!!!
ad infinitum..
Christ, we want someone who knows how to run a country; not someone with a special needs a child, a son in the military, a mom, etc.
well. at least she can read.
heartland, mom, america, special needs, son, war, marriage
she's got the loaded vocab
for those playing bingo... card 4 is a winner!
Over 300 comments 30 mins in... think we can break 1000 by the time it's over? I haven't seen a thread this hopping since crackergate was in full swing.
Ugh.. her trying to connect w/ the regular foax is too sickening.
Also: "Exceptionalism" is an actual word.. I'll be damned.
If any pundit can dig out some instances where Biden supported McCain's military policy he will lose a LOT of credibility, because Palin is pushing that HARD. I don't know if it's just the Republican tactic of repeating a lie until it's virtually true or what, but, if there is any truth to it, it will certainly burn him in the end.
I would be interested to see where Biden and Obama have butted heads in the past.
@Scooter:
Ironic: 'not blinking' is one of her buzzwords
A nod's as good as a wink to a blind bat.
It's half an hour behind where I am in South Australia but we've just gotten the talk about terrorism - Palin's just said 'nucular' and 'eye-ran'. Gosh, but she's annoying to listen to. I've never seen Biden before but he's coming across well.
LeeLeeOne ... can I borrow a cup of Sapphire? I'm out.
I don't see how. We lost the Vietnam war and Cambodia and Laos got tossed into the bin as well.
Since when does getting shot down by third world peasants armed with substandard Soviet anti-aircraft missiles make anyone a military genius?
Again with the Alaska... energy independence... I'm a mom... REAGUN AGAIN! Blah-blah-blah!
Nice subtle joke in response by Biden, too.
Yay! Someone finally mentioned Quemoy and Matsu! (#299) Let's settle the hot issues of 1960, because JFK and Nixon never addressed it adequately, damn it!
biden got all choked up. nice. i feel the emotion.
'MAVERICK!'
Whoa -- Biden just teared up! Good for him!
we want someone who knows how to run a country
No offense, but people who think they *can* "run the country" disturb me.
Maverick! DRINK! *hic*
I think BIDEN just chocked up and almost cried!
WTF is going on here?!
Palin: We are so NOT Republicans! Why can't you people see that!
it's weird that biden seems to be more of a feminist than palin... i use the word a little loosley
"He [McCain] is the man we need to leave..." woot!
four mavericks! no five!
Damn. Wish I'd started counting the number of times she said "Maverick" from the beginning.
Joe is calling her out on Maverick!!!!! Yay Joe!!!
Nail that Maverick issue! Go Joe!
She just called a list of rich white people diverse
____________________________________________
HockeyMom Pitbull
@321 I don't know raven but apparently it involves a maverick. Possibly a large wooden badger as well.
Well at least Biden is taking on the "maverick".
Will someone please call emergency services for the poor folks who picked "maverick" as their drinking-game word? We've got serious alcohol poisoning here!
He's calling her out on the 'maverick' comments
In the name of the FSM, stop the Palin drinking game! You will die from alcohol poisoning!
I'm an Aussie so I'm safe unless they capture me in afghanistan...
Man, Wall Street is just *everyone's* bitch tonight.
Beg for scraps, Wall Street! Beg! Beg! Yeah.... shake that money maker.
Maverick! DRINK! *hic*
Uh oh, Q_D, hopefully you don't have alcohol poisoning after Biden's rebuttal.
I think they are both doing better than the pundits thought they would. Obviously Joe is better informed on a lot of the bigger issues like foreign policy, and he is delivering well. Sarah is hitting on the big government point a lot - and well.
Get'em JOE!
Now he's pissed.
"Maverick he is not!"
McFAIL
My girlfriend is crying in empathy for Biden ... she thinks he just won the debate.
biden got all choked up. nice. i feel the emotion.
yeah... but... is that a drink?
Sadly, all Palin has to do to "win" the debate is to walk away from it without having said "I'll get back to you on that" more than a dozen times.
"I'm a moron but I can be trained" is, as exemplified by recent history, pretty much all it takes to be elected to high office in this country these days.
Joe Biden on John McCain: "He has not been a Maverick on anything that genuinely affects people sitting around the kitchen table." Yes! And he backed it up with specific examples. You go, Joe!
Cut her Joe! Cut her deep! Cut like a Tijuana whore, and spank that maverick right out of her.
Women have been reacting better to biden on CNN
Haven't seen/heard Biden before...I think he comes across as fairly intelligent and straight forward. More specific in his answers...to the questions :)
Palin comes across to me as a one trick pony...rhetoric pleading to emotion of the patriotic *average working class* American. Comes across as arrogant and condescending to me.
Heard it from Howard for long enough in Australia. Just a cover for having no idea about policy and no direction!
Oooh...staring to sound like someone needs to rewind up that key in Palin's back again...
#355 The list left me guffawing as well, but I wouldn't call any of the names on the list "people."
#328 He lost his wife and daughter in a car accident...I started choking up a bit.
Capital Dan,
Change the tone. Leave out the whore talk.
*hic* *hic* *hic*
"Quasi-caved in"
WTF?
Ah, that HORRIBLE voice of her's is killing me!
If Palin gets to be VP, I will take an icepick to my inner-ears.
Yeah,he's won it,with his "bringing up 2 kids alone",the one that"might not make it",and by calling her on the maverick bullshit.
Win by points however,no K.O.
Cut three ways: long, deep and frequently :-)
#355 The list left me guffawing as well, but I wouldn't call any of the names on the list "people."
Also, almost over at 40ish mins? I thought these were 90?
I should be watching the Canadian debate instead of reading this very entertaining thread.
Mind you there are a lot of things I should be doing instead of reading this thread. Hell, they're boring so fuck'em.
Palin: I'd rather not have MSM fact-check my BS.
@Kel, what's your immigration policy down there? I despair of this place some days.
Palin: I appreciate the chance to speak to the American people like I just did, without the filters of the mainstream media.
Oh, you mean, you appreciate the chance to speak from a scripted list of talking points instead of having to answer tough questions unprepared.
I am watching the debate from Toronto Canada, It is way more entertaining then watching the race for Premier of this country.
Whoa -- "National Security freedoms". Oh, yes, good luck with THAT, lady.
I'm glad that this is almost over. Her voice was starting to make my ears bleed.
Sad as it is, I think Biden's best move was taking Palin to the cleaners about the appeals to emotion with his own tragedies. She's been playing up that mom, downs syndrome kid, kid in the military crap since the beginning.
Would pig be better for your delicate sensibilities?
Still... Knew I'd piss someone off with that one. hahaha. I'd call Biden a whore as well. So, lighten up.
Analyst Rollins is a little partisan no? 48 positives to three negatives on Palin?
Precious bodily fluids! DRINK!
C'mon, Joe. Mention Scranton again.
Ooooohhhh, show me the way to go home... I'm tired and want to go to bed. Had a little drink about an hour ago, and it's gone right to my head...
Have you been reading this thread?!
Writzer: #320
Here's one for you - I'm sending you a triple-shot because anyone who respects Sapphire deserves it!
I gotta go. I think I'll be taking some calls soon (we're playing it on the fly)
Here is the streaming link:
http://stream.kpft.org/streamkpft.m3u
and the phone number:
713 526 5738
give us a call when we go local
seeeya,
doncha know
God Bless you all, ya know
Capital Dan,
Then stop the drinking as well. There is NO shortage of things to note about Palin, without having to resort to such empty BS.
Biden just creamed her on issues alone. Let's concentrate on THAT!
SAD closing for Biden.
Too many God references ;-(
Geez Biden. Way to much God speak in your closing line. FAIL.
May God Bless the troops!
Biden's closing statement was much, much better. He's obviously done this debate thing a few more times.
@ 373
Of course, but I am referring to the general media, not a forum on a progressive site. In the media they have been playing up the sexism, that's what I meant.
I can't begin to tell you how much I want to have a President who speaks and understands English. I want some intelligence in the White House again! I want to not cringe and practically hurt myself in my rush to turn down the volume whenever I hear the President speak.
It's hard to type with my fingers crossed. Guess I'll stop.
Capital Dan, you got a laugh out of me for the Tijuana whore comment. Gawd bless ya for that, don'tcha know.
CNN analysts just said it was a fascinating debate. WTF?
We're that passing the bong around during the debate?
Oy, I wanted to watch a debate, not a highly-incestuous gangbang.
WAAAAAAAAAAAy to much God in the closer
You've got to have some mad skillz and a lot of cash.
Because our government has survived for the last half century off mining and tourism, we fall well short on skilled labour. So you can get in fairly easily if you have skills and employment opportunities.
That sounds like a really damning assessment of this country. It's not as bleak as I sell it I swear!
I never thought I'd hear a 72-year-old, white, male, supposedly Xian republican described as a 'maverick' before - unless they were talking about a gambling, gun-toting con-man.
Family Guy gets it right:
Peter: Hey, Lois, look! The two symbols of the Republican party: an elephant and a big fat white guy who's threatened by change.
I like how her list of dangerous world leaders were Ahmadinnejad, Kim Jong Il and... the Castro Brothers. Seriously? Cuba? It's a tiny little island that can't do anything to the US.
The Canadian debate is still going, lets see if Harper can have a good stumble. Go Jack!
WAAAAAAAAAAAy to much God in the closer
WTF?
Where did you get that I was drinking or talking about drinking?
My goodness you are touchy and looking for things to get pissed off about, aren't you?
Seriously. Lighten up.
Personally, as I said, I think Palin did better than I thought she would. Of course, she still came off as a vapid, empty-headed hokey mom with a healthy dose of Prozac.
And now an HOUR and 20 MINUTES of analysis? They *are* high!
Feh... I'm going to go play Tales Of Vesperia. G'night all.
Mark Shields on PBS just referred to Palin's "relentless coloquialism." I like that phrase
The god talk is, unfortunately, mandatory in these things. Biden's close was still much better, but I'll agree it was besmirched by the god bit. I can agree with the sentiment, though, we all feel for the troops and would like them back home & safe.
I can't give Biden or Palin any points because I didn't watch the debate, but I give the pharyngulites here a 9.7 for the content, 9.9 for the entertainment and a solid 10.0 for the drinking.
I found Biden to be a typical Democrat, and Palin largely simplistic and clueless (and made a number of demonstrably false statements.) After McCain, Palin, and GWBush, I'm embarrassed to admit I WAS a Repub.
The future doesn't look good.
Right. So we've learned nothing from this.
But thank you-all fer watchin' so I didn't have to, don'cha know.
I watched the first 45 minutes and decided that Palin was going to answer whatever happened to be echoing in her head from her training session, so, I turned it off. She is completely unacceptable.
Some guy on CNN just summed it up nicely i think :
There were 2 different agendas here,Biden attacked McCains record and policies and did well,and Palin defended Palin,and did well.
Gary Bohn, don't watch the Canadian debate. I did for a minute, but the sight of Stephen Harper makes me throw up in my mouth.
I'm with you.
Funny thing. After Bush groped Chancellor Angela Merkel, you knew for certain, without any doubt, that the White House was being occupied by an idiot.
It isn't just the babble that's been coming out of our Idiot in Chief's head for the last eight years, his actions have done nothing to demonstrate that Bush is anything other than an inept fratboy.
Yep - you guys are all spot on there. A double martini certainly did improve my outlook on this whole thing. Damn glad I didn't refresh that often though.
JC
Watching MSNBC-first mistake, I know. Pat Buchannan just said that Palin was sensational and wiped the floor with Joe Biden. Was he watching the same debate we were?
How is it that she got away with not answering, oh about 85% of the questions she was asked?
#391 Capital Dan
I agree.
The Repugs certainly would've been lapping it up.
Oh...I see lots of replays of Biden's emotional moment coming up.
Someone on MSNBC just said that Palin did well, as well, and I just don't get it. Maybe I'm biased because I keep informed and I know how much of a vacuous liar she is, but it seemed to me that Palin did an atrocious job. The only people she could have possibly convinced with her performance tonight were people who already were for her and perhaps a few people on the same intellectual level as creationists.
She didn't utterly suck. Well, there were issues that she didn't answer at all, replying (instead) with something rather different from what was asked. She was caught spewing incorrect/deceptive arguments and data and corrected.
Since there's been a lot of gin-talk here: I bought a bottle of Hendrick's on sale and it's really tasty. I like it better than sapphire.
ExxonMobile is making up for Palin loss with commercials on m TV.
John Harris from Politico said that Biden won the debate hands-down based on standard debate rules - who actually answered the questions, who gave substantive answers, etc. It's very interesting to see how people's political leanings colored their view of the debate - right from the beginning (myself included). How do we find unbiased people to grade this?
It was interesting and I think in terms of content, Biden wholeheartedly won but in terms of what they had to go out there and do - Palin won it.
For one, she didn't sound like a moron. She didn't answer all the questions but she gave reasonable and half decent intelligent answers, and she backed McCain constantly and constantly.
I'm currently out of gin. I'm also out of tequila... summer is coming on so I really should get a bottle of the latter soon. That some greanadine and some orange juice.
OK. I'm now laughing my ass off. I just heard a pundit refer to Palin as "Gidget goes to Washington." Classic!!!
Exactly. I think the goal for Palin was simply to go into it and not try to win, but do her best not to drive Conservative voters away, and she hit every little codeword perfectly to make their ears perk up. They don't want details. They don't want to know how McCain's going to go about fulfilling his campaign promises.
Lots of the pundits are saying what a great job Palin did because of her little "aw shucks" routine, and how she 'connected' using terms like sixpack (and I guess because just like our incumbent she can't pronounce nuclear properly either).
What the f*** is wrong with this country that nobody is analyzing the actual CONTENT of what she said. My take is that if you take out all the filler, all the fluff, all the gees, and references to "mavericks" - she had NOTHING to say. Exceptionalism? No, mediocrism and that's where this country is headed (which would probably not be a bad thing for the rest of the world given our imperial ways).
I started watching 18 minutes after it started. Palin looked like she wasn't having fun. Biden looked like the experienced politician he is. After one minute I decided the debate was too boring and too unpleasant to watch so I turned off the TV.
I saw the entire McCain-Obama debate. Obama was obviously the most intelligent candidate and he's getting my vote.
"Women have been reacting better to biden on CNN"
I would hope that women would be good at sniffing out a woman's BS.
Kel:
"summer is coming on "
Didn't the austral winter just end last week? Smug Aussie bastards, wearing shorts all year round...
She didn't suck as bad as I expected, but I shiver at the thought of sending her overseas to attend a state funeral or some other such VP kinda task.
I hate to tell you, but Palin is getting most of the plaudits over here in the UK. I suppose that shows just how low our expectations of her were. She did dodge a few questions, but the format was far too soft to really show up her lack of knowledge. It seemed like she had been well taught to in her speaking style, and she managed not to wander too far (most of the time). Biden sounded competant, and given how much older he is, he actually seemed to match her for enthusiasm and bounce in his voice (I was listening on the radio). I'm a bit dissapointed Biden didn't attack her on her support for creationism in the education segment, but I guess he didn't want to upset the pro-democrat religious...
Overall I think it was a draw. That's how it's being reported on the radio here. Neither messed up, but neither really distinguished themselves.
Is there anybody out there that remembers a drinking game that was called BOB (come on, show your age)?
I have a new variation of it that is called ALSO. Every time Palin said ALSO, you would have taken a drink. I think that we could have gotten a pretty good buzz out of the debate. For a better buzz we could add the word THOUGH to the game.
I say we try it during the post debate reviews.
Two Republicans on ABC both said they thought that Biden won. Kind of shocked the system there.
The bar was set so low for Palin, I would have been surprised if she didn't do better than expected. But she didn't give straight answers, and did not do anything to change my opinion of her.
NUCLEAR-- Is it too much to ask to have the people in charge to know how to pronounce it?
#305 Quiet Desperation
Thank you for that! I'm going to be chuckling for days and will probably have trouble watching that movie from now on.
CNN quick vote
http://www.cnn.com/
scroll down and to the right.
you know what to do
A golf analogy:
I don't play golf, but Palin did "well" just as a golfer with a handicap of 30 would do "well" on a golf course.
It's crap. or gold. or sad. or fun...
thank all the gods... there's only one.
I was surprised by the whole vice president / fourth branch of government business. I didn't think anyone, even Cheney himself, took such a position seriously.
Should of been like the Canadian debate. The head of the Green Party just accused Harper of ruling by fiat, frequent uses of "you can not be trusted to run the country" by all candidates and Duceppe looking like he was going to turn into Sam Kinneson when demanding Harper answer his questions.
Cripes, I've gotta real buzz and growing headache, and I have to get up for work tomorrow! This drinking game stuff is fun, beats reading the headlines, but they have to start scheduling this shit on the weekend.
If McCain is elected I'll contribute to a 'round the clock medical team to monitor/manage his health because if something bad happens, we are in deep dung. I'm scared, very scared.
POLL CRASH!
http://www.cnn.com/
Well I'm in the nation's capital so it actually does get cold* here in winter. On the coast and up north in Queensland it's shorts all year round.
*when I say cold I mean overnight below 0C and in the day a maximum of single digits.
I might be biased, but I would have given the debate to Biden. I thought he was very effective in attacking McCain. Palin came over as likable but not particularly knowledgeable. The problem is, how will she appeal to the undecided voters? And that's my great fear.
I think that the debate shows that Palin doesn't know what an Achilles heel is. That was one of the questions she didn't attempt to answer.
Some of her one-word or one-phrase answers were just filled in with unrelated talking points, which is kindof appropriate for a vice-president who no one will want giving advice: ya need to know how to fill in those empty hours, doncha know.
And she showed the arrogance of the Internet self-proclaimed expert in not supporting some of her assertions with anything more than appeal to her authority.
But, no, not a bad performance considering that she is preaching to the choir.
The Canadian debate just ended. Harper failed to live up to anyone's scorn. Elizabeth May slaughtered in spite of her sexist knee-jerking. Dion just withered away. Duceppe had a few gotchas and we-told-you-soes, but didn't have much to add. Jack Layton would sink an oil tanker in a bathtub.
Best of all, the word God was not invoked once.
#422: CNN quick vote
Who fared better in the vice presidential debate?
Sen. Joe Biden74% 36986
Gov. Sarah Palin23% 11417
Neither3% 1294
Total Votes: 49697
She's an idiot, and I hope that the American people saw through her crap. I will post my full thoughts later.
yeah NO ONE EXCEPT Obama campaign EVER wins the CNN vote. I don't watch CNN anymore after they treated Hillary Clinton like shit. Palin gave a good answer on oil. She said very clearly that drilling is a good thing but it is NOT the only thing that will lead to energy independence. Your bias is reprehensible.
About as meaningful as Fox's quick vote. If we could get solid numbers on Fox vs. CNN we'll have a better idea.
Thank you, Ben, for your insight.
I have not read the comments (and at 399 of them it seems unlikely to be worth it especially since I am somewhat tired tonight). But I will put in my $0.02. Biden won. Pure and simple. I always expect some degree of ignoring the the question from debaters, but she did not seem to make an effort to mask it. This removes any doubt that on national issues, she can't go off script. No major gaffes though even if I though some things were a bit strange (her VP powers comments for example). Though I think Biden won, I doubt it will make much of a difference. People vote for the top of the ticket. For the record, since I did not comment of the Obama/McCain debate is at the time I thought it was pretty much a tie though the polling suggests both sides though their guy won and that undecided gave it to Obama.
And since Biden made no major gaffes, there is nothing to keep Obama's momentum continuing. It will take something huge to prevent Obama from winning. It is now his race to loose. Thank goodness. With the Dems having the executive branch and the senate, the high court nominations will for sane people who won't force children to learn ID in science class or declare anti-global warming legislation unconstitutional.
Even the Fox News poll has Biden winning
http://elections.foxnews.com/
Question of the Day
Who won the vice presidential debate Thursday?
Sarah Palin 48%
Joe Biden 52%
Total Voters:24568
Tomorrow morning millions of citizens are going to wake up and realize that there is a possibility of listening to "Nuculur You Betcha" for the next four years and swing to Obama / Biden.
[puts up an embarrassed hand, recollecting his college days] Yes, how ever funny Newhart was, he was even funnier when drinking.
Hendrick's is great stuff -- I like it in martinis with a cucumber slice instead of olives. (That said, my current libation is a Caipirinha.)
What? Were we supposed to talk politics?
That's what I get for being lazy ;) In all fairness (to me) I voted there, and saw a 60-30someodd lead for Biden, but on refresh it's much closer to the numbers you posted.
I bought a bottle of Hendrick's on sale and it's really tasty. I like it better than sapphire.
now THAT'S useful information.
thanks for the tip!
*me at 442 should say "60-30someodd lead for Palin"
"with a voice that really grated on me"
Nice personal attack. You know PZ, I first came to Pharyngula because I share your concerns about evolution vs creationism and atheism in general. A lot of what you wrote made sense and was thought-provoking.
However, your political commentary has turned me completely off your blog, and I won't be coming back. I don't need to be aggravated by your personal attacks and to wade through the same shrill partisan claptrap that pollutes so much of the blogosphere nowadays.
As a conservative Republican who doesn't share the adherence to religious dogma and pseudo-scientific inanity which unfortunately afflicts so many of my brethren, I saw value in your scientific and philosophical arguments and would have thought that they would present a valuable opportunity to be used as a tool to educate those of my compatriots who might be so swayed.
Unfortunately I could not possibly send anyone here or recommend this site since your political ramblings would clearly dissuade anyone I know from taking your other comments seriously, which is a real shame since clearly your strength lies in your arguments vis a vis theology and biology, and not political commentary.
You had a chance to use your forum for the greater good, but unfortunately you have chosen to preach to the choir and offend anyone who doesn't share your political views. While all your partisan groupthink backslapping is probably very psychologically satisfying, it doesn't do any good to people like me.
I depart now, looking for another way to educate my compatriots. Thank you for your time.
Biden won because the public doesn't play the expectations game the way the media does. To the media is was close to a tie because Sarah Palin couldn't be expected to do well, but all the populace is going to care about is that she didn't do well.
Forgot to mention in my last comment...
I thought the format was weak. The moderator or the opponent should have been able to take on a candidate's lack of an answer. There needs to be mechanism to force both candidates off-script. The ability to to recite memorized speeches does tell us much more than than that the candidate can recite.
Alright, my thoughts are up.
Her inner-Cheney showed a little bit tonight.
However, your political commentary has turned me completely off your blog, and I won't be coming back.
what an excellent piece of concern trolling!
wait, you were serious?
then...
ROFLMAO
Didn't the austral winter just end last week? Smug Aussie bastards, wearing shorts all year round...
I live in Perth, about as far south of the equator as Tel Aviv is north, and I wear shorts all year round (but mainly because my work place has air conditioning that works erratically, ranging from hot to very hot). The coldest day so far has been 2 degrees Celcius. I agree with Kel; Canberra (the capital) is a miserable place. Cold and windy in Winter, hot and windy in Summer, and only tolerable in Autumn (March 21 only) and Spring (September 21 only). Every other day of the year is either Summer or Winter.
#435 Ben - ES&D, then go back to whatever Freeperville you came from on the same pseudopods that slimed you here.
Black Bellamy @ #445: Ever seen the tag-line?
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
If you're going to get in a huff about political opinions, well, you know that saying about the door and your way out. If you're being truly honest with yourself, do you not find Palin's voice to be obnoxious? How about the extra "down-home" style of speaking that goes along with it?
Tomorrow morning millions of citizens are going to wake up and realize that there is a possibility of listening to "Nuculur You Betcha" for the next four years and swing to Obama / Biden.
after that performance, I half expect Palin to start off her acting career (after McCain fails) by starring in:
"Fargo II: Road to nowhere"
KristinMH, do what I do, just imagine Harper in white makeup, a big red nose, lederhosen, and giant floppy shoes. You'll laugh yourself silly.
If the conservatives get a majority we can expect the same creationist/social conservative problem as the US.
#445: Yes, Bellamy, how dare PZ not have political views that march in lockstep with your own! And how dare he express them on his very own blog! Why, if this freedom of speech thing catches on, sooner or later everyone will be doing it!
I'm sure PZ will be just agonized to lose you as a reader.
"I'm still mostly reassured that Biden will be good in the job.{""
Oh lordy!
Biden is a Washington habit, like McCain.
His ideas about government are perfectly suited to further our now almost 10 trillion dollar debt. He has no understanding of just how fast and far America will implode soon, he isn't willing to look at or talk about the monetary policy that got us to this point. He thinks America should keep bankrupting ourselves with our military overseas, he thinks having one in ten loans go bad is acceptable and manageable, failing to mention how much fucked up paper is riding on each and every mortgage.
Again, this debate was like watching a two legged stool leaning against something about to shatter.
Americans are rooting for one or the other of these spindly legs, and calling the other leg stupid.
And I repeat my own #451 to #445's BB as well.
We only have to agree where we agree, and I'll not be asked to respect your "feelings" about every other issue.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out, by any means.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26995439
Who won the VP debate? * 227602 responses
Joe Biden 53%
Sarah Palin 37%
Tie 4.5%
Not sure 5.4%
Oh lordy!
leave it to SFO to replace "ummmmmm" with something equally annoying.
again, your soapbox is rickety, Scott.
I thought Bible Barbie was condescending to Biden. She didnt give a real answer to any of the questions. She was furiously looking at her cue cards. Boilerplate talking points from her all night long. Gosh, shucks, joe six pack, hockey mom, and Alaska. Sickening. Then she reapated the lie that a timetable for leaving Iraq was a white flag and affected the morale of the troops. Yeah, because they dont want to come home...Just awful.
Pathetically moderated debate. Eiffel appeared either out of her league or the republicans strategy to intimidate her (re: her book) worked. She let the candidates, particularly Palin, get away far too often without answering the questions. Eiffel rarely asked any follow up questions regarding the details. She just let them either change the question or make vague, general statements without providing specifics. Given the format of the debate where the opponents were not allowed to ask followup questions of each other, that was a role the moderator needed to do. Gwen Eiffel failed at her job.
In regards to Palin's and the Republicans frequent charge that Palin was not treated fairly by mainstream media, Olberman and Maddow (MSNBC) just issued a challenge that she could appear with either of them (or both), unedited as long as they get to ask follow up questions regarding her statements.
Mr Bellamy seems to have commented a grand total of 3 times, and every time it is to complain about the horrible liberal bias here. That's really not much of a loss, sorry.
Simple analysis - there was no debate.
Joe Biden did not 'debate' Sarah Palin. He ignored her. He decided not to go there. Where would you start? He decided to attack McCain past and present and tie him to Bush. Whether this was a wise strategy - or really make any difference in the long run - only time will tell. But simply - Biden did not 'debate' Palin - make no mistake about it.
Palin simply parroted out the lines she's been rehearsing non stop for the past few weeks added with a folksy twang.
The question will now be how many suckers out there will now think Palin really is smart and brilliant and we've had it all wrong all along - ala Couric interview, Tiny Fey etc. Clearly she still is a blithering idiot whose never had a thought about many issues much less taken a stand on any of these issues. The question is how many people will be able to see that a fast one has been pulled on them. If the answer is electing Bush 2X, the future doesn't look good baby.
But if there is a semblance of sanity in the American body politic - if there is any recognition that continuing policies that have simultaneoulys destroyed our military, economy, civil rights, etc. etc., not to mention utterly secondary issues like science policy or even science sanity then we won't make the same mistake 3X.
Palin babbled chirpily and never resorted to pauses or stammering which will be enough for the clueless to believe she's smart and therefore redeemed herself from the Couric debacle. In the eyes of the Average Joe & Josephine Blow republican, she won simply because she didn't fall down into an apoplectic fit.
#405 Archaneus
#413 Capital Dan
Black Bellamy (#445):
I used to vote for Republicans but I can no longer justify voting for politicians who want to destroy the environment and who can't talk about science education without invoking their magic fairy. Barry Goldwater was the last real Republican. Today's Republicans are mostly creationists. They're stupid, insane, and they want to make America a theocracy like Iran.
Intrade results:
"Barack Obama's Intrade value will increase more than John McCain's following the VP debate": Dropped 12.5 to 48.5.
"Sarah Palin to be withdrawn as Republican VP nominee/candidate before 2008 presidential election": Dropped 4.9 to 5.0.
"Joe Biden to be withdrawn as Democratic VP candidate before 2008 presidential election": Went up 0.7 to 5.9.
Looks like the Intrade market called that a narrow win for Palin (which probably means merely that she didn't bungle it as badly as expected).
However:
"Barack Obama to win 2008 US Presidential Election": Up 2.1 to 66.8.
"John McCain to win 2008 US Presidential Election": Down 2.1 to 33.5.
Michael B,
Pretty hard for Biden to debate someone who just ignores questions asked to her, makes up her own facts, lies, or goes off on irrelevant tangents.
I haven't read the 400+ posts yet, so I don't know if this is repetitive but please poll crash Fox News poll of who won the debate. They have Palin at 86% for crying out loud. Text to 36288. Vote A for Biden.
Huh. Canberra's in the mountains, I see. Climate sounds a lot like Boise, although I don't think Boise is too terribly windy.
Ta ta, and don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Um... was it meant to do good to people like you? I was just thinking PZ was expressing his personal opinions on his personal blog. You expect him to not do that?
Besides, the points he brings up against Palin are pretty valid. She sounds like a slippery, glib sound-recorder, with very few valid points, and seems more interested in delivering a one-liner rather than rationally discuss any issue
It is sort of embarrassing to see so many supposedly free thinking, skeptical people making such obviously biased and uninformed statements when it comes to politics. PZ - you should be embarrassed for doing the same things you accuse other of on other issues. I love this blog for discussions regarding evolution and science, but when it gets into economics, foreign affairs, etc. PZ and many of the posters here fall into the same trap they so eagerly trash others for in areas of science: ready acceptance of comments that conform to your preconceived view, a failure to delve beyond the surface and reliance on rhetoric. As a proud independent and a fierce skeptic, I have been a bit embarrassed to read this blog the past few weeks. Both political parties are a joke and both of these candidates were dreadful in terms of articulating decent policy. Any suggestions where I can find an intelligent discussion on some of these issues?
The question will now be how many suckers out there will now think Palin really is smart and brilliant and we've had it all wrong all along - ala Couric interview, Tiny Fey etc.
sick the paparazzi on her, and make sure she's off-script again, and she'll fold just like with Katie.
That's what happens with Stepford wives. They really were never programed to go "off script". If forced to, they get all hinky, and sometimes go on psychotic killing sprees.
That's the inherent danger of choosing a Stepford wife over a real woman as a running mate.
OTOH, if she breaks, we can make another one that looks just like her.
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/10/02/politics/horserace/entry4497035…
Brain from Maine:
"Thanks for your concern. It is noted, and stupid."
*Yawn*
Seventy-one percent are still uncommitted.
*head-fucking-desk*
Just who was holding a gun to your head Brian? Feel free to look anywhere you like. If you are looking for any one of us to tell you where to go, feel free to read between the lines Buttmunch.
@Grammar RWA (#474): Damn, they can sure slice the "early results" from 473 voters a lot of ways...
I think, PZ, you're getting a flood of angry Republicans coming in pretending to be longtime readers.
How dare you comment on politics!
I watched the whole thing and thought Biden did pretty well staying on issues and records. My prediction is that the MSM will spend an inordinate amount of analysis time on how mean it was of Biden to grin whenever Palin brought out another whopper about McCain's record or expounded her parochial world view.
Brian #472,
MORE! MORE! MORRRRRE!
The sort of whine your kind produce is my fav-o-rite!
I look at http://electoralmarkets.com/ frequently because I think it's an accurate prediction of who will win each state. Right now it's looking good and it gives me hope for the future.
270 Delegates Needed for Majority
Expected: Obama 311.5 McCain 226.5
Leaning: Obama 338 McCain 200
Probabilities: Obama 67.3 McCain 32.7
No. What are you, new to politics?
No way was this debate a "tie" or a win for Palin (despite what Ed Rollins thinks). Biden was knowledgeable, professional, real, and unrehearsed. Palin was folksy, cute, and full of rehearsed fluff. She will have impressed a lot of folks, mostly fence-sitting Republicans, who want to see some slight evidence of ability to to the VP job. If Palin is seen as competent as a result of this debate, then this country is in more danger from an idiotic electorate than an idiotic president/vp.
I'm guessing Brian from Maine is Scott from Oregon's long lost twin?
Brian from Maine,
Nope, none at all. You're looking for a leader and party that you can agree with perfectly. You've already made up your mind what you want to hear. Since I don't know exactly what you think, it's impossible to give you guidance.
Criminy, it's grating to hear people like you insinuate that those of us backing a candidate are 100% in line with them. As has been asked thousands of times here and elsewhere, you've got to choose between two of them, who you gonna go with? One is obviously more of a nutter than the other. Choice made.
Maybe you could start your own fantasy campaign, then you could vote for yourself, someone you agree with completely. Problem solved.
"A" for caring. "F" for dealing with reality. Overall grade "D+". Passing, but the student has not shown mastery of this topic. One can forsee real problems as they move onto more complex issues on the topic.
@ 411 Kel ...
Summer's coming on for you but, alas, it's ebbing away from us. Thanks to LeeLeeOne, I'm lapping up a triple measure of Sapphire to blot out the terror of the 'debate.' Tomorrow, I lay in a supply of fall and winter warmers ... cognac, rum, maybe some port and dark chocolate, and perhaps a cigar or two. I feel a bunker winter coming on; the economy, the election, the cold. Best to build a fire, pour a drink and read a book.
Slate agrees with some other posters: Gwen Ifill lost this debate.
Which is sad, really, because I think she does a pretty decent job on Washington Week, and is generally a thoughtful commentator.
As long as it isn't white rum, sounds like a great plan. Almost makes me wish it were winter coming on so I could do the same... Though I'm spending a month of my summer in Finland so I suppose I can do similar.
Anyone still reading this? If so, would you indulge me by freeping this small-paper poll about the debate?
http://www.chicoer.com/
In the middle of the page.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/10/2/205127/601/705/612540
polls
Posted by: Stephanurus | October 2, 2008 11:56 PM
Indeed, and especially when said candidate openly admits that she would seek to expand the powers of an already power-drunk Vice Presidential office.
This was the one question she needed to nail to win moderates, and she completely failed. Among the many things about this administration we cannot afford to continue, it is exactly the expansion of the powers of the executive - free from legislative scrutiny - is most certainly the most prominent.
@The RevBigDumbChimp KoT OM wherever he is right now.
Palin reminds me of some one
Thank you (and all the pharyngulaists who have put up with me learning how to do this over the past few threads) for your patience.
T'was the "" that was stopping me, not the anchor (though in my case I've been bereft of any anchors, moral or otherwise, most of my life).
And keeping on thread, a comment about Palin. Now that she got all cute with Joe Biden . . .
"Is John McCain gonna have to choke a bitch?"
(Chappelle Show w/ Wayne Grady.)
Not really *in* the mountains as such, but it's near the mountains. What you must remember is that mountains in Australia aren't that big, the highest one is just over 2km high. So in winter we get a windchill off those mountains but it never snows here.
So yeah, there's a little bit of information about the great southern land. Nice weather today though, high 20s (celcius people), blue skies, not much wind. I can't wait to get home this evening and crack open a nice beer. Good beer too, not that generic flavourless crap that most people drink.
http://www.ratethedebates.org/
Posted by: Brian from Maine | October 2, 2008 11:35 PM
Here's a good three-step process for that:
1. Go find someplace (anyplace will do).
2. Look around.
3. If you're there, then you might as well keep looking.
I was extremely saddened that Biden does not support gay marriage. This is Christianity's fault.
I didn't watch it but just read a quick transcript of the economy part.. and it sounds like every time Palin says something, she ends up being smacked over the head with data by Biden.
Which I imagine looks like meany Biden is attacking poor, adorable Palin (to those who don't pay attention to data)
Maybe I missed y'all's comments on this in my quick scan of the thread, but didn't anyone notice that la Palin wants to increase the power of the vice president. AFTER Dick Cheney, she thinks the VP needs a bigger role???? The fuckin' mind boggles!
Also, am I the only one who thought she sounded like she was doing an impression of Tina Fey doing an impression of Sarah Palin? Do we really want a VP (almost certain to become president) who talks like a backwoods kindergarten teacher talking to unruly 5 year olds?
Good idea, Gary...although Harper is already such a creepy liver-lipped mandroid, it's more likely to make me find clowns repulsive than Harper funny.
Oh, and Kel...
*wraps herself in many sweaters, huddles next to a fire and cries*