One of our regular commenters here, BrokenSoldier, has a story to tell — an all-too-common tale of our government's neglect of the men and women sent out to fight, and returning damaged to a bureaucracy that isn't willing to do the right thing and support them. If anyone out there is willing to help get this story out, here's an opportunity — it's practically written out for you. This is a broken soldier's story:
This is a request for help. Disabled veterans are being treated as if they are a burden on the government's checkbook, and the government is getting away with it, mainly because the situation is so far out of the public's collective eye that the military can quite effectively sweep it under the rug. Politicians are using our sacrifices as political capital in front of the nation, while the Army medical system turns around to our face and disdainfully treats us as if we are asking for something we do not deserve. All we want is the care we were promised, and all we are getting is organized resistance from the military medical bureaucracy. In some cases, this resistance amounts to the pure manipulation - and even alteration - of the medical regulations, for the sole purpose of reducing the amount of money the Army has to pay disabled vets upon their separation. I have turned to this kind of appeal, frankly, because I am out of options. I believe that
the only thing that can even begin to fix a problem such as this one is true exposure to the bright lights of public scrutiny.When wounded soldiers comes home, they have to go through an evaluation process in which a panel of Army doctors determines what their final disability rating will be. If they decide that the soldier rates less than 30%, then they can separate that soldier with merely a severance check, and never dole out another dollar to him or her again. Should the rating be above 30%, the Army is required to medically retire that soldier, and send him or her a monthly check after they leave the service. In principle, this makes sense. But this is being abused by those doctors, in that they are intentionally low-balling wounded vets in order to get them under the 30% ceiling and get them out, for obvious reasons of saving money. Just in my case alone, I have seen doctors lie on official reports about what I told them, make childishly snide comments about the appeals that I have written to the Physician Evaluation Board (PEB), and one doctor even suggested that a
previous diagnosis was invalid simply because I was "fine" on the day he saw me. (And I have proof - to include hard copies of documents showing the offenses.) This does not stop with the low-level doctors, by any means. The Army PEBs operate on instructions given to them by their command, and one in particular is very telling. Since soldiers began coming home with serious concussion injuries, the Army medical community has seen fit to publish instructions to its PEBs concerning certain ratings and how they are to be 'interpreted' pertaining to veterans' disability claims. One of them that I ran directly into deals with the occurrence of migraine headaches, which many veterans with concussion injuries suffer from, and how they are to be viewed. The schedule that lists ratings that are to be applied states that for a 50% rating, migraines must meet the frequency requirement of at least two pper month, and the severity must be prostrating. After
veterans began receiving this rating for their complications from IED-induced concussions, an instruction to physicians was published informing them that from then on, the word 'prostrating' was not to be interpreted as it is defined, but rather for migraines to be considered prostrating for rating purposes, the soldier must have stopped and sought immediate, emergency medical attention. Due to the fact that it is very difficult for someone laying prostrate from a migraine to get up and make it to the ER, you can imagine how well this worked in reducing the number of veterans that received disability ratings for their migraines.And aside from the failings of the rating process, once the soldier is done with that, then there is the incompetent bureaucracy within the ranks of those handling retired service members to deal with. I was retired in January, but did not see a single cent of my retirement money until June. And when it did begin, taxes were being deducted - which shouldn't happen, because combat wounded vets get tax exemption from their disability checks. After getting that fixed, I recently discovered that I have absolutely no medical coverage whatsoever - which I found out while trying to get my prescriptions filled - because my retirement documents never got to the agency responsible for administering my care as a medical retiree. The incompetence of those that handled my retirement file ensured that the necessary paperwork failed to reach almost all of the necessary agencies. And I am by no means the only one this type of injustice is happening to, but instead
it is a widespread occurrence. The reason for this is that once the soldier leaves the service and begins the fight for his or her benefits, it is simply that soldier against the entire framework of the Army bureaucracy, and that is far from a fair fight. (They do allow you a liaison in order to to help you navigate the system, but if mine was any indication, this is more of a burden than a help - in asking her to participate in a conference call to discuss why I disagreed with my initial rating of 10%, she resisted and actually said to me, "I'm not here to hold your hand through this.") So I have ended up in a position quite familiar to veterans - broke, living with my parents, in debt up to my ears from the months without income, and having no consistent medical coverage.So, if you read through this and it seems wrong to you, especially if it makes you a bit angry, then I'm asking for your help. The only thing that will fix this problem is to shine a spotlight on what is happening, because once that happens, the freedom of action that the Army medical community has enjoyed in bullying the wounded soldiers applying for disability will be gone. Once the public is cognizant of exactly what has been done to the veterans the government so profusely praises for their sacrifice, their hypocrisy will be laid bare. If you know anyone - journalist or not - that will take this story and tell it to the public, please let me know. The above injustices are only the tip of the iceberg, even in my case, and I have documentation of many more transgressions.
A disabled vet has fought far too much already to have to continue to fight with their own government like this when they get home. In this case, it is the soldier who is looking to citizen for help with this fight.
If you're willing to help get the word out, contact Gary E. Ford.
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I've been incredibly impressed with everything that brokensoldier's said on this blog. Can't help with publicity, but there is another vet with strong web presence who fought the VA and won - ginmar, who might have some tips for brokensoldier.
I sympathize with the author. I can add two close friends of mine to the list of veterans who have never received disability pay, even with 80% disability due to three tours of duty - injuries and the PTSD associated with war in general.
He should submit this to a freelance editor, then the NYTimes, LATimes, Tribune, Associated Press, Reuters, and any local paper he can find.
it's going to dawn on a lot of people soon that there's no oversight on what happens to soldiers after they've served their country.
"god bless the troops" indeed - for their country won't bless them, that's for sure.
This is sad. I wish I knew someone who could help but alas I do not.
When I hear about stuff like this (didn't we hear other horror stories about VA hospitals a couple of years ago) I get truly disheartened.
Isn't this the sort of reason that right wing nuts point to when making an argument that universal or socialized (or whatever) healthcare is a bad thing (despite its relative success in other countries)?
I just found out today that one single new fighter jet costs 340 million. Is it not possible that we could do with one less fighter jet to give the VA and our veterans the resources they need after we send them to war (on truly false pretenses).
I might add that one of my friends is ex-marine; wounded three separate times during the various OIF and afgani tours:
Got hit by a 3Liter IED with ball bearings, shredded his legs;
Run over by a HMMMV - required extensive surgery to repair his shattered knee, foot, and shins;
Shot by an AK47 in the left shoulder, limited range of motion even after extraction.
He's at 80% disability, and September marks his two year exit date anniversary -- without a single dime from the government.
TRUE TO-THE-POINT. GOOD-LUCK-YOU.
The disability rating is, apparently, based on employability. So 100% disabled implied totally unable to work, where 0% means able to work normally.
Seems like the actual frequency of prostrating migraine headaches should be taken into account here rather than just "at least 2 per month". There's a huge difference between a migraine every day and 1 every two weeks.
Though the way this particular rule is set up it's apparently a bureaucratic trap for soldiers to fall into. If you know about it, you can just head into the emergency room every time you get a migraine and then bam! instant disability rating. Good to know we have to set traps for our soldiers. Maybe next we should require that the forms must be signed only on Tuesdays when the moon is waning.
@genewitch
Is all of that 80% from the most recent injury or did they actually send him back into combat when he's considered disabled?
As I Vietnam vet, I can sympathize with your plight. Many veterans hate the VA for the red-tape and BS they endure to get what is rightfully theirs.
I can't help you with your situation, but have one suggestion. Have you joined any kind of veterans group. I know that the American Legion and the VFW are conservative in their politics, but they have people who can help veterans get what they deserve and will do so no matter what your political persuasion. Also, many have gone through the same crap.
I don't know if you are Minneasotan, but they brought back some National Guard people here a day sooner so they could short-change them on education benefits. So, I am not surprised.
Also, if you do live in Minnesota, the DLF has a veterans caucus which has some veterans who may be able to help you get the benefits you have earned by risking your life for your country.
The sad thing is this is nothing new. Veterans have been short-changed and jacked around throughout our history.
Best of luck from a former Navy cook! (Hey, if you're wondering, there is a thing called shore duty, and I spend a year outside of Da Nang at NSA Da Nang Hospital. Then, they send me to a base in Africa!)
My sympathies to Broken Soldier. I have never met him in person, but his regular comments on this blog have shown him to be thoughtful, intelligent, reasonable, and clear-headed. He does not special plead. When he argues that there is an injustice here, it carries weight.
Who do you contact to help improve veteran benefits?
Whether or not you like the military, what they do, how they do it, etc, there is an explicit deal made between the people and those serving them; you risk yourself for our protection and in return we will look after you if you get hurt.
To use bureaucratic shenanigans to wriggle out of that deal (on either side) is plain wrong.
Rather than trying to escape responsibility, I claim that the deal ought to be extended to include quite a few more occupations undertaken for the benefit of the people - police, fire, perhaps even teachers these days. After all, the politicians and higher ranking officials seem to manage to get the best of care upon retirement.
Good question Pat. Start with your Congressman and Senator. They all have websites and you can e-mail them. I've found that googling their name gets their sites quite well. I just e-mailed mine with a full copy of BrokenSoldiers text. One message alone is not likely to get much of a response, but thousands of messages across the entire Congress will likely get some notice. You can also send it to your state reps and Governor for good measure - they don't have any direct impact on this issue but they do have a stronger link to your federal officials than the typical citizen.
You can also contact the VA directly at : https://iris.va.gov/Scripts/iris.cfg/php.exe/enduser/cci/ask_1.php?p_si…
Remember, as in all things, the squeaky gear gets the grease. Complain to your elected officials. Make 'em work for a change.
Be Squeaky!
It makes me angry, and I'm not even American.
I am also very cynical, however, and don't find it very likely that this injustice will be made right.
I don't know who to contact there, but this does seem like exactly the type of story--particularly if there is documentation and if there are others willing to speak--that NOW on PBS would cover.
If anyone knows of folks in orgs like Vets for Peace or Iraq Vets against the War, they would likely have some kind of press database. If you've got contacts in one of those places, they might know how to get the folks at PBS.
I'd esp suggest contacting folks who might have connections from orgs like the Vets orgs I mentioned. (Or other orgs that have media operations and maintain a set of contacts and relationships.)
Also, smaller scale and leftier politically, but contacts at The Nation or The Progressive might also be interested in such stories. Don't forget local reporters as well.
Wish I had contacts.
I forwarded your story (which is not unfamiliar to me) to several friends who write bigger blogs than I do (Although, probably not as big as our esteemed host here). I am also drafting letters to my congressmen. I know it isn't much, but as the wife of a service member, I need to do something. Thank you for posting this!
I've emailed the link to this post to some people with whom I work here in Boston who are very actively involved with these issues. They should be able to help.
I'd really like to see this post generate at least as much noise as the wafergate.
Whether or not you like the military, what they do, how they do it, etc, there is an explicit deal made between the people and those serving them; you risk yourself for our protection and in return we will look after you if you get hurt.
I would add one thing to that agreement--we will exhaust every possible avenue before sending you into combat, and we will never do so without just cause.
Broken Soldier, you should contact Rachel Maddow, she often has Paul Rieckhoff of IAVA on her show, and she is now appearing on MSNBC with some frequency. She used to have a regular "Ask a Vet" feature on her show every week, and still gives a lot of airtime to the war and veterans' issues. Hell, contact Mr Rieckhoff, his organization may be able to help you.
You may wish to contact the "Village Voice", although it is a sad shadow of its former glory.
Have you posted on The Daily Kos? Your story would make a really good diary, sure to be highlighted by Kossacks.
The mistreatment of returning veterans really has me livid. One of my brothers did two tours in Iraq, another brother is going in August. I know a lot of guys who are serving, so I get really angry whenever I contemplate what this administration has done to them.
My father is a Korean war veteran and he is STILL waiting for his fox hole pay.
To be a bit more helpful, KBOO.FM radio has a regular program called 'Veteran's Voice', those guys really know how to help veterans. They also would probably love to have brokensoldier as a guest. I'm a member, if I can help you get a slot I'd be happy to. :)
A couple of days ago I visited broken soldier's blog and made some suggestions to him. I've also written to my congresscritter, Joseph Courtney (D-CT) about this case. Since broken soldier lives in Florida and isn't represented by by Courtney, this may not do any good. However, I know Courtney and by pointing out a common problem with disabled veterans, I may have helped all disabled veterans, not just broken soldiers. I've also notified the retired Navy old boy network about this problem.
JoJo, CAPT, USN (Ret)
As I was writing my post above, I had a YouTube playlist going. Twisted Sister's We're Not Going To Take It was playing. How appropriate.
I'm a journalist by profession, but I don't know how much I can help in this instance. I'm not exactly a high-profile household name, and neither are the publications I contribute to.
I'll see what I can do. I'd be happy to talk to BrokenSoldier, and perhaps put some feelers out in my professional network. There may be some opportunities for getting the word out that aren't immediately obvious to me. But I can't promise anything.
I can recommend a journalist to contact. Jim Risen at the NY Times is responsible for some very well-written articles on Iraq issues, specifically one on Jamie Lee Jones and more recently one on the electrical issues. He's very sympathetic, keeps his word, and writes well. I have his email address if you would like it.
I'm a 10% disabled Navy Vet. I went through the process you did. I got a check and then poof. That's all folks.
Brokensoldier,
I'm really sorry to hear about your plight. As a non-US citizen there doesn't seem to be a whole heap I can do, but let's just hope things get better when the Republicans (who, let's be clear about this, don't care about veterans, or soldiers, or the constitution, or freedom, or the [real] USA (their imaginary one is quite different), or any of those things - they really only care about their own hegemoney) get booted out of office - hopefully forever.
Take care man, and good luck!
Sorry, hit the button early. I feel for you bro. The maze that vets have to run through is amazing. I hope you get the care you need. I know it's an uphill battle, but you have my support and sympathy-for what it's worth. Good luck.
To all those who are considering going into the military: assume you will get shafted to the maximum extent possible by your own country, then decide. I served in the Navy for five years and I have some first hand knowledge about how difficult it is to get your rightful benefits. For example, they reduced my educational benefits to about one fifth of what was promised. (I can't complain too much - I was never shot or blown up. Blown, yes. But that's another story. Once I burned my hand washing dishes.)
If enough potential recruits knew about this situation and others like it, it would make it harder for the military to sign up adequate numbers of fresh meat. Only then would anything be done to help our vets. Sad, but probably true. They've got the economics all figured out, doing the right thing be damned.
As the saying goes, I love the fucking Navy, and the Navy loves fucking me!
Unfortunately, this is not unusual. I know - I am a disabled vet (above 30%). It's all red tape - pure and simple. A lawyer is what is needed. They will get 10 or 20% but it is S.O.P. The first thing that will happen is that the VA will start paying your salary - tax free. Then anything left over will get paid by the DOD. (I get a whole $6 from the DOD every month!) The VA pays the rest. At this point the VA will take care of you medically.
Get the lawyer to see if you are eligible for Medicare and Soc. Sec. (They WILL deny you at first - you just need to understand that this IS going to happen) Everything will work out in the end --- I am sure,
Hang in there. :-)
Stacy
I have been in the military, and though during peacetime and never seeing combat, I can empathize with my fellow servicemen through a variety of experiences, especially as described by broken soldier. I'll certainly keep his plight and that of others before me and try to do what little I can to rectify this appalling situation. Don't give up.
Where are all the true Pharyngulites?
What a wussy response this has pretty much been so far!
Do what I did: E-mail Broken Soldier's story to Bill Donohue, www.catholicleague.org Do it now.
Bill and his trans- cis- or un-substantiated guy-in-the-sky will make sure that Broken Soldier is taken care of with Xtian love and compassion, to say nothing of compassionate conservatism. It will be a true miracle, no doubt qualifying Bill for a saint-hoody.
And if not? At least Bill will have something to aid his imagination the next time he tries to think of something worse than cracker smackin'
And, PZ you could do the noble thing too: Offer to give Billy-Boy all the fracking crackers in your possession (each nicely preserved between the pages of a quran) if Bill and his Cathleague get justice for Broken Soldier.
And Broken Soldier: Thank you more than I can say for your service to me and my family. If I seem to have made light in the above of the outrage you are suffering at the hands of my government, please forgive me. Sometimes I think that satire is the only weapon I have left.
You have to be pretty stupid to enter the military nowadays. The chances of being able to fight a "noble war" are negligible.
I asked my brother, former Airborne Infantry, for suggestions on this, and these were his thoughts:
The DFAS is doing weird things with the pensions of disabled vets, too. Every time I call them I get a lovely message that informs me: "if you are retired and rated unemployable, your full benefits will be restored in October 2009." That's a long time to wait for your own retirement fund. (I'm not a vet, I receive my father's pension).
I wish that the Government would respect the sacrifices of these veterans, and I hope that BrokenSoldier gets the publicity and support he needs.
J @ 32
Feel that precious christian compassion. What an incredible tool. Is there nothing you won't troll?
I am copying brokensoldier's write up and forwarding it to my Junior Senator, Jim Webb. I suspect he cares about vets.
And the real point here isn't that we need to help brokensoldier, we need to help ALL our vets. They get treated like things, not people, and it's a travesty that they can't get the care they are owed.
You have to be pretty stupid to enter the military nowadays.
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/plonk.php
Insipidity, morphing, slagging, stupidity, trolling, ... J(eremy)'s scoring well.
I have known several people over the years who suffered from constant pain from wounds which were never taken care of properly by the government. It's a damn shame how this whole situation has been treated by the military. I wish I were more than a student in journalism, I don't have any contacts or resources to draw upon, but hopefully BrokenSoldier can get his story out there.
You have to be pretty stupid to enter the military nowadays. The chances of being able to fight a "noble war" are negligible.
Wow, you're a scumbag.
I'm as anti-war as they come, but... You're a scumbag.
@32
Never heard of the economic draft?
Not everyone has all the chances in the world.
Sadly, those stories were about Army hospitals, not VA hospitals. Most soldiers would love to be transferred to a VA hospital. The VA system offers some of the best care anywhere - see this article from 2005: www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2005/0501.longman.html
The problem is getting access to the VA system. You can't get access to any VA services until the active military cuts you loose AND your paperwork makes its way thru the maze of bureaucracy. The only sure fire way I've ever found of getting thru military bureaucracy quickly is to get a senator involved.
FYI: Keith Olbermann reads Digg. PZ: Digg this story and then direct your readers to keep digging it.
Although I suppose I could just talk to him in person.
Posted by: J | July 22, 2008 9:08 PM
Fuck you. If my motivations for joining were self-centered, I wouldn't have darkened the Army's doorstep. This isn't about the choice to serve. It isn't about wanting to fight any war, regardless of its nobility. It isn't about worrying what will happen to you after you join. It is about the government's responsibility to those who make that choice to serve. If that is all you can come up with to say, keep your hot air to yourself, dickhead.
Sorry to the rest of you about replying to that waste of space first. He pissed me off, what can I say? I'm getting to answering those that have asked questions...right....now...
PZ, thank you for your willingness to help us, especially since you have no incentive to do so or no connection to me or my case. It's a shame that such humanistic and empathetic predisposition is so rare in today's society (at least where I've been living), but I am truly grateful.
I second the suggestion to contact Paul Rieckhoff of IAVA. They work very hard for veteran benefits.
Rachel Maddow will promote the issue on her show, but a) she is not real mainstream, on Air America, and b) she is spending too much time doing MSNBC these days and lost a lot of her focus.
That's really tragic. Wish I was in a position to help. It's such a shame how veterans are treated by a bureaucratic system.
Sorry to the rest of you about replying to that waste of space first. He pissed me off, what can I say?
Well, an apology isn't really necessary.
Be well.
Well, an apology isn't really necessary.
Seconded. Assholeness of that magnitude should be responded to appropriately. And I can't think of anything more appropriate than "fuck you."
BrokenSoldier, I would have been disappointed if you ignored that scumbag.
I know a Marine who fought for over three years to get his disability. He was career military and contracted ALS. This happens to be a FATAL disease, and of course, he was entitled to 100% disability. The service put him in the 10%(!!!) disabled category. He was a fighter, but very cynical. He figured that by the time he won his case, he would be dead, thus letting the Marines of the hook for his care. He lived long enough to begin collecting, and is now totally bedridden, but hey, they got away with not paying him for over three years.
My sincerest sympathies to you, Broken Soldier. The current administration has much to answer for. One of my first cousins is a career officer who has become disillusioned with the government's treatment of injured vets. His current existential crisis is taking it's toll on his wife and kids and the rest of the family.
I have only spoken supportively to him, when he was open to speak to me which is not often since year two of the conflict. When the drums were beating for the Iraqi war I was very vocal in my opposition to it, but never unsupportive to our troops. (sigh) Ideological wedges are hard to mend and some wounds never heal.
The men and women who serve in these wars are not to blame, and they don't deserve your, or anyone's, disrespect, J. They joined for a number of reasons, but I'll bet you'd find few for whom "getting to kill or be killed for unjust purposes" was chief among them.
Brokensoldier, I don't know how much I can do to help, but I am a journalist of sorts, and would love to do whatever I can.
@#48
By "contracted" ALS I assume you mean he "caught" it somehow? This is an odd description because ALS is not a communicable disease. The causes are very very poorly understood, apart from a small number of cases that are hereditary. Agreed it is fatal, but since the causes of most ALS cases are unknown, he would have a VERY hard time proving the ALS was caused by anything that occured while in the military.
This of course brings up the issue of how liable the military is for health issues that do not stem from the military service itself. The obvious answer of course, is that they're 100% liable - just like any other employer! If they provide healthcare for their employees, they have to accept that a certain percentage of those people are going to have preexisting or developing health issues that are not caused by the job, but they affect the ability of the person to do the job well. The military is an employer, pure and simple, they should pay up for the care of their employee. Just because it's the government/military, doesn't mean you can wave the magic excuse stick.
I've worked at VAs and have heard similar cases time and again. At the risk of being too inflammatory, however, I'd suggest that much of the problem here is not that vets get too little or have too many hurdles to care (they clearly often don't get enough and the hurdles are steep), but that all Americans aren't afforded a decent safety net and access to car. The VA Medical system, in many regions of the nation, is the best medical care available, and for all intents and purposes is socialized medicine - many of the complications, red tape, and funding gaps are more a result of Republicans attempts to prove socialized health care doesn't work (via fiat).
All that being said, the cases that touched me the most were vets w/ TBIs that were insufficiently service connected. Out of respect for those soldiers (and HIPAA), I won't share stories, but I sincerely hope you receive the care you deserve.
http://digg.com/world_news/A_broken_soldier_s_cry_for_help
There. I dugg it for you.
There is a national pro bono program to put veterans in touch with volunteer lawyers to help with claims like these:
http://www.vetsprobono.org/
http://www.vetsprobono.org/pdf/NVLSP_5FBRO.pdf
The New York City Bar also has a Veterans Assistance Program that provides help in a wider variety of matters than the Veterans Consortium linked above. You might want to call your state or local bar association to see if they've got similar programs or clinics that could help...
Hi,
I just voted for your excellent blog for Bloggers Choice Awards.
Could you return the favor at:
http://www.bloggerschoiceawards.com/blogs/show/21620
Thanks,
SpEdLaw2
I want to make sure I answer everyone who has asked me questions, but I'm gonna do it in sections, so I dopn't ppost a multi-volume saga on this thread. So:
Volume One
Posted by: Techskeptic | July 22, 2008 7:20 PM
That would make waaay too much sense for the military to consider it as a serious option. Plus, I think the concerns of Lockheed-Martin and other production contractors far outweigh those of me and my fellow veterans, solely because the profit margin for the government is much higher than that which they enjoy from veterans. All for the Almighty Dollar!
Rob,
Thanks for your comment. As for the disability rating methods, that may be the way the disability system for some agencies work, but for the military and VA, the ratings are directly tied to the injuries which they are assigned for. The military uses the Veterans Affairs Schedule for Rating Disability (VASRD) - you can find it on the net - and it isn't designed for addressing employability like that of the Social Security disability rating system.
And I see where you're coming from on the migraines, but I'd offer than one of the migraines that post-concussion syndrome regularly induces per month is enough to warrant compensation. Mine is an average case, and the migraines I get consist of anywhere from two to four full days of couch time, with the lights off and earpplugs in.
Posted by: Rob Adams | July 22, 2008 7:31 PM
And it wouldn't surprise me if they start letting soldiers apply for disability only on the months with 31 days in them.... It would not surprise me at all. ;)
Posted by: Qwerty | July 22, 2008 7:37 PM
Yeah, I have joined the Disabled American Veterans, and they are beginning the process of helping me straighten out my situation. It will take a while to get the process started, but it is certainly more than I can do myself. I don't doubt that I'll eventually get the coverage back, but I also have no doubt that I'll never stop having to fight the system in order to get what I deserve.
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | July 22, 2008 7:55 PM
This entire situation has shown me how insignificant the whole left-right, conservative-liberal, Democrat-Republican quibbling really is, in the scope of our national situation. While I tend to lean toward the left (not true prior to my Iraq experience, but these things have a way of changing your perspective on political arguments), in my current situation, there are only two camps. Those who truly value the service of veterans, and those who do not. The ones who do are the ones that do what they can to help - the ones who do not are the ones I am currently fighting, who seek only to lower the government's bottom line. And in my opinion, too many peopple dismiss claims of mistreatment by the government expressly because their party is the one running said governemtn, and they are averse to any sort of damaging criticism. (For an exampple, see John McCain's infamous treatment of the lady representing the families of the MIA from Vietnam in the Senate hearing held for addressing the concerns of the families she was representing. (It's on YouTube, but be warned, it is quite enraging - be sure to watch it while sitting down with your temper safely stored away.)
MAJeff, I've loved reading the stuff you have to say on here ever since I first came. Thanks for your sentiments - your mere expression of desire to help is enough for me, man. I truly appreciate it, and I'll be looking forward to enjoying your comments on here for some time to come.
Posted by: tim Rowledge | July 22, 2008 7:48 PM
You hit it right on the head, man. Those professions deserve much more respect and support than they currently get as well. And it is a sad fact that Senators, through the fact that they vote on what benefits they themselves get, receive the best care in the country as far as public servants go.
Posted by: Longtime Lurker | July 22, 2008 8:03 PM
Thank you - I will definitely do so, along with the other suggestions you made.
Posted by: Patricia | July 22, 2008 8:03 PM
Thanks! I'd be perfectly willing to go on a show like that, if it can be worked. Hell, even in my crunch I'd be more than happy to find a way to get from here to wherever that show is just to get our story out.
Sorry for the long post, but I want to make sure I take in all this info. You guys will never know how grateful I am for such offerings of help. After three years of silence from those who were supposed to be on my side, I can't even really explain the emotion brought forth by your words of encouragement.
(And sorry in advance for the next novel....Volume Two will be coming shortly.)
This is an extreme long shot, but I spoke with Mike Taibbi of NBC (Matt Taibbi's dad) a long time ago when I got a student journalism award. He's reported from Iraq and Afghanistan in recent years. I'll happily alert him to the situation, for what it's worth, and I wish BrokenSoldier all the best in getting this story out.
Getting legal help and some politicians following your case will help. My congresscritter is interested in veteran affairs as he was a naval officer prior to being elected, and still serves in the reserves, plus there is a VA hospital in our district. I'm not sure if he would help somebody from Florida though. If your local congresscritter won't help, check the congresscritters in your adjacent districts. If one was in service, they may be more than willing to help.
Good luck, and may you get the help you deserve. [Salute]
I can understand the willingness to die for your country and the safety and security of it's people. I've felt that devotion to my country and it's people on many occasions. (Unfortunately, when I attempted to enlist in my country's Navy I discovered I can not serve due to medical issues.) I admire the men and women in the armed forces for their dedication and sense of duty. I cry and ache inside when they lose their lives or have their bodies broken in the pursuit of freedom and justice...
This, though.... this story just makes me want to vomit, it's so upsetting.
These mean and women were not only willing to sacrifice themselves, they already have... and their country is simply throwing them away without a second thought over nothing... Over money. They, the men and women who have had their lives and bodies... their minds... shattered over petty squabbles among governments should never have need or want of anything. They have given themselves, in bravery and in strength, only to discover that their pain and sacrifice is only quantified in dollars, and not in the love and respect they are due.
I hope this article is written, and I hope Broken Soldier has his story told. Not just in the papers or on the news... but in the classrooms, in the halls of government, in the streets... As much as many of us, even those of us who are not American, are already aware of the problems that exist in the treatment of veterans, not enough people know or understand the true impact of these idiotic, bureaucratic "decisions".
These are not numbers or dollar amounts. These are husbands and fathers, wives and mothers, children, aunts, uncles, brothers and sisters.
These are the people who love us all enough to give their lives so we can be in freedom and peace. They deserve more... They deserve better...
They are heroes. They should be treated as heroes.
brokensoldier: Where are you located? Rough geographic region.
Okay, suppose the Fourth Estate does its thing and this disgraceful matter gets the attention it deserves.
What exactly would that constitute? We don't just want Broken Soldier to get the treatment/services/money he deserves--we want all the vets to get it. And, y'know--yesterday.
Here's my assumption (and I'm assuming a lot): The Dems will get in next year (not much of a leap) and they will be wiling to fix this (bigger leap).
But someone has to do the spadework, so once the journalists chime in, does anyone know how to write anti-bureaucracy legislation? The "It's More Than Your Career Is Worth to Fuck With Vets' Benefits Act of 2009" (IMTYCIWTFWVBA,'09) perhaps? And maybe a bit of lobbying?
Seriously, what would it take?
Also: While we're up, how about a Manhattan Project for head wounds?
brokenSoldier,
thanks for the kind words, and I think I speak for a lot of folks when I say I look forward to keeping reading your comments for some time to come.
This sucks. And this war is insane.
Molly, NYC #61: For that, you have to write and call your representatives and senators.
Equally horrifying:
"Of the women veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan who have walked into a VA facility, 15 percent have screened positive for military sexual trauma, The Associated Press has learned. That means they indicated that while on active duty they were sexually assaulted, raped, or were sexually harassed, receiving repeated unsolicited verbal or physical contact of a sexual nature."
http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/16287.html
CalGeorge (65),
There was an outstanding episode of NOW that dealt with the issue of Military Sexual Trauma. I used it in my gender class last fall, and will again this year.
How can I say this w/o people freaking out ... OK - like I said before - it will all work itself out. Of this, I am fairly certain.
I lived through it Soldier (and I'm not sure this is a Republican or Democrat issue) but I am quite sure it is a "Big Gov't" issue.
To put it simply, in order for jobs to be necessary they need to be constantly solving a problem.
If everything worked the way it was supposed to ... we wouldn't have customer service representatives, would we?
The gov't has thousands of "customer service" representatives. Some that will make your life miserable and some that will try and fix the problem that the first agent caused for you.
It's job security. It's a game. They need to deny your benefits originally so they can keep themselves busy.
It's not a conspiracy, but I think everyone knows, intuitively, that if they want to keep their job - they need to remain busy.
Unfortunately, you have become someone's busy work.
Play the game - even though it sucks. Knowing it's a game will help keep your blood pressure down.
Been there-done that!! ;-)
Stacy
Well, I e-mailed Durbin, Obama and my representative and included Broken Soldier's story. I have no idea how to publicize the stories of veterans, but I'll write a letter to the editor of my local newpaper. Maybe they'll pick up the stories of veterans in our area who are being denied the benefits they have earned.
Posted by: JoJo | July 22, 2008 8:14 PM
And that is exactly what I hope this exposition of the problem will do. I almost did not make this appeal, for the reason that I have a serious aversion to calling attention to myself and seeming like an attention-seeker. What I'm hoping is that through telling my story, I can get people to see that this is not an isolated case of mistreatment- it is purely and simply a matter of policy for the military.
Posted by: Ghost of Minnesota | July 22, 2008 8:21 PM
I'd sincerely appreciate anything you're willing to do, however large or small. My intention is to get this concern out to any and all markets and see what comes out of it. If you want to contact me, you can e-mail me and I'll give you my phone number.
Posted by: Linda Lindsey | July 22, 2008 8:26 PM
Please do send it to me. I'll definitely drop him a line and see if he has room for the story.
Posted by: aleph1=c | July 22, 2008 8:48 PM
I am SO stealing that and adapting it fromt he Army. It's rare that I come across one I haven't heard before, but that's one of them. :D
Posted by: PoxyHowzes | July 22, 2008 9:07 PM
I thank you for your sentiments, and as sincerely as it can be meant, you're welcome. As for the satire, I consider it one of the best ways to combat injustice and disrespect. Especially when its done as well as that.
Posted by: True Bob | July 22, 2008 9:16 PM
Bob,
Thank you sincerely for forwarding my write-up to Webb. I've heard great things about him. And again, I certainly do hope that once this issue gets within the public's purview, it is no longer centered around my experiences alone. I think that once it gets the attention it needs in order to grab the public's attention to the point of action, having a multitude of voices and stories will serve the cause much better than focusing on one single service member's problem.
Posted by: Rational Jen | July 22, 2008 9:47 PM
I agree the VA is miles better than the military, but they have problems that are caused by other factors, most of them stemming from the lack of funds, due to the fact that the largest portion of the defense budget goes to operations, leaving little for the medical system, and even less for the VA. So while the VA is a great group of people, they are far too often unable to do everything they wish to do. And on a personal level, the problems in VA hospitals (overcrowding resulting in soldiers' beds being lined up in the halls, seeing soldiers in varying stages of rehabilitation and struggling the whole way, etc...) makes them a seriously depressing place to go. I am often a hair away from bursting into tears whenever I step foot in one of those hospitals.
As a caveat, the doctors in the VA hospitals - due to most of them maintaining a partnership with medical colleges around them - are often new physicians in their residency. While this sounds like it may be negative, they are very proficient, and they are young and enthusiastic enough to still have both the compassion and empathy that makes them listen, and the drive to allow them to do what is necessary to help. I can't say enough about the VA doctors, and I'm looking forward to being done with all of this fighting with the Army so I can take advantage of their offerings.
Posted by: Lee Picton | July 22, 2008 10:10 PM
Lee,
It makes me both irate and utterly saddened to hear about such injustice. Even though I know it is out there, that in no way alleviates my sadness when hearing specific cases.
Posted by: Mark | July 22, 2008 10:38 PM
I had not thought of that - I'll definitely do it. Thanks for the suggestion, Mark!
Posted by: E.V. | July 22, 2008 10:11 PM
And I truly do appreciate it. This outpouring of sympathy is both more than I could have anticipated, and extremely comforting.
Posted by: Virgil | July 22, 2008 10:23 PM
Once a soldier is accepted into the military, any condition the military missed before accepting the soldier then becomes the military's responsibility. That's certainly not to say that you'll get disability for it, but as for medical care, they cannot discharge you for it, and as such they are obligated to provide you with the care you need. And once you leave the service, the VA will provide the care you need thereafter.
Hopefully I'm all caught up! But then again, it's been a while since I've refreshed the page...
Posted by: FishyFred | July 22, 2008 9:47 PM
Two things...
1) Great idea on the Digg thing - thank you for thinking of it, and
2) if you know Olbermann, I'd give my left nut to be able to get in touch with him! Of all the MSM journalists, I think he'd be one of the best to handle something like this.
BrokenSoldier,
Since you have put this out there on the internet, I was hoping you wouldn't mind if I printed it to include in the hand-written letters I'm going to send to my elected officials tomorrow. Someone told me it was good to follow an e-mail with an actual letter because Senators and Representatives pay more attention if you take the time to use pen and ink. Just post if you would prefer we not print out your story.
My sympathies indeed, BrokenSoldier.
PZ, with the readership you have, you don't need the mainstream media to be the first step. Enough blogs take notice - i.e., enough of your readers with blogs take notice - and it'll take on a life of its own. I'll Digg this and post on my site asking (both of) my readers to digg it too.
E-mail me. My Pharyngula alias at gmail.
Posted by: James F | July 22, 2008 10:46 PM
I appreciate (I truly hope this word isn't being devalued by the number of times I'm using it) your help, James, and I assure you that it is worth more to me than you know.
I too thank you for your service to our country Broken Soldier and hope things start to improve for you soon. Has anyone else suggested the bobwoodrufffamilyfund.org set up for TBI and to help veterans get needed services? You may remember Bob Woodruff was the co-anchor of ABC World News Tonight and was severely injured while covering the war in Iraq on January 29, 2006. I believe he has now returned to a new show called "Focus Earth". I have not seen it. The website looks like it may have some other links and there is contact information. Maybe you have already heard of it though.
Posted by: FishyFred | July 22, 2008 10:51 PM
I did live in Florida, but have since had to relocate to Alabama, for the reason that I didn't have income for six or seven months, but luckily the parents don't charge rent... :P
BrokenSoldier, thank you for your service. You answered the call, did what you were trained and ordered to do. You entered into an agreement with your government and the population that is (ostensibly) served by that government. Your nation owes you its thanks. Most everybody knows this and they are thankful, if not a bit in awe.
But it seems that service and patriotism have become less important than butt-kissin-budget-fudging at the level of federal agencies. Its singular goal is to preserve the advantage and privilege of whoever currently has advantage and privilege. With, of course, bland deference to the sacrifices of citizens who were in service of those who enjoy advantage and privilege. And so it goes . . .
Until we the people actually make noise and shake cages. More profitably, speak in measured and reasoned tones with the assumed authority of an American citizen. I reckon it's not been done much lately. We have let our "representatives" get way out of line. Countenanced too many shenanigans.
I will do what I can to aid you to bring the lights to bear. I'll tell people I meet. I'll tell my Navy veteran Dad, I'll tell the first customer I visit tomorrow. I'll write the local paper.
Please keep us informed. And courage to you.
E Pluribus Unum
Posted by: S.Scott | July 22, 2008 11:25 PM
I don't disagree that it's a game, and I don't disagree that it's about their needs over ours, but I submit that when an organization shirks its responsibility for a purpose they lie about, that qualifies perfectly as a conspiracy. They are conspiring to maintain and/ or better their situation through direct deception at the expense of those they are meant to support.
Again, I don't disagree, but my intent with all of this is to attempt to eliminate the need for those that come after me to play that game. If we can eliminate the conditions that have allowed these people to do this to veterans, then maybe - just maybe - the game can be removed from the equation, if even partially.
I'm a family doc in private practice. I work with a lot of frustrated vets who split their care between the VA and private physicians due to the long waits and red tape of accessing care in the VA system. That being said, I would point out that much of Broken Soldier's story sounds very much like what I hear from dozens of patients being treated for disorders like migraines, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, multiple chemical sensitivity, irritable bowel syndrome, depression, anxiety, panic disorder, post-traumatic stress disorder, and some other related syndromes. Broken Soldier passes a lot of judgements about the nature of his disease, the competency of health care workers, the nature of disability, and the concept of reimbursement for perceived "disabilities." In fact, each of these points have some significant degree of controversy associated with them that goes beyond mere judgement call. The system may be broken folks, but Broken Soldier's arguments are not based on sound evidence. They are at best anecdotal. As such, they merit investigation, not castigation.
Posted by: Pygmy Loris | July 22, 2008 11:31 PM
This gets at what I hope happens with all of this. Even if it garners just national coverage it will do a lot, but if we can get even a bit of saturation in the local markets of this country with this story, I believe the effect will be exponentially increased. Because as the old adage go, "all politics is local."
@ Broken Soldier
Saying I'm sorry about your situation seems feeble, but I don't have much else. It would be nice if there was more we could do. I'm not sure what my representative can do to help in your specific case, but if others here live in the same district as you do I think it would help if they contacted your reps, so let us know where you live. And I'll let me various reps know that I find your treatment completely unacceptable. I think the easiest way to fix the problem is for all pay to be retroactive to the separation date with interest and penalties charged if they screwed it up. Hit them where it hurts so they don't screw others in the future.
@51
As you've pointed out, the military is responsible regardless. However, some studies have shown that rates of ALS are roughly twice as high in Gulf War vets who were deployed compared to vets who were in the military at the same time but never deployed to the region, and the age of onset is typically much lower in veterans. The causes are poorly understood, but there would seem to be an environmental component. And even in cases where the "cause" is known (mutations in SOD1 or ALS2) the mechanism is still something of a mystery with lots of conflicting data.
That being said, there is currently Congressionally Mandated Research funds available through the DOD specifically for ALS research, although the application deadline passed in case you were looking to apply :)
Apropos of nothing, here's a thing I want to know -- why is it always the left nut people are willing to give, but never the right? I don't have any myself, so I don't really know much about this. Are left nuts not as good as right nuts? Are they less fun? Uglier? Why all this hating on the left nuts?
Write your congressman.
As it happens, every congressman has someone on their staff whose job it is to follow up on complaints by service members. I know this because a high school friend of mine worked in the inspector general's office in the pentagon, investigating congressional referrals.
Most servicemen with a valid complaint never file that complaint, let alone take it up with their representative. The numbers are such that the issues that *do* get reported to a congressman are few enough that they do get dealt with.
-jcr
Brokensoldier, I don't mean to sound crass but welcome to the club. The VA is notorious for not caring - I recently called the VA regarding the status of my GI Bill application only to be told it was lost and I had to resubmit. No apology or remorse, just "reapply"; they screwed up but it was obvious they didn't care.
I think, however, that you may be a bit confused as to the disability process. I was Air Force so things may be different with the Army but while the PEB (we called them MEB) may rule on your status to serve it is the VA that determines your disability rating. Before I retired I had to visit a VA contract doctor who did the disability evaluation - you should have gone through the same process. Also, it is the VA that pays you disabilty compensation, not the Army as you stated (and yes, it takes a LONG time to get a rating and to see your first payment). I don't say this to be condescending but to point out that, unfortunately, the VA is a huge administrative mess which is why almost everyone has problems with it. What I found to be most helpful was to contact my state veterans office. They seem much better organized and know how to work the system. Here in Texas (yes, I live in stupid) the Texas Veteran's Commission was a big help in starting and working through everything.
Posted by: Pygmy Loris | July 22, 2008 11:53 PM
By all means, feel free to send this wherever you think it may help. I'm sincerely thankful for any exposure that will call public attention to the plight of my fellow veterans.
Sorry brokenSoldier, I live on the far side of the world, and there isn't a damn thing I can do to help, but I hope it works out for all of you; whatever the rights and wrongs of a war, a country should keep its promises to its servicemen: it's the least you deserve.
I forgot to say it: Thank you brokenSoldier for serving our country. I appreciate the risks you have taken for my liberty.
It makes me very sad and incredibly angry that you are having such problems with the military benefits and I'll tell anyone who will listen to me about your story.
@Soldier -
I hope you are right. I really do. I remember just pulling my hair out because of the beurocratic bullshit - it took about 2 1/2 years for everything to work out for me. So hopefully you can manage for that long. (I'm sure you can)
Take care, OK??
Stacy
Posted by: Crudely Wrott | July 23, 2008 12:09 AM
Much thanks for your enthusiasm and willingness to help, and I'll definitely do all I can to keep you guys up to date.
Well, I added my tiny weight to the Digging of this story, and I'll be racking my brains to think of people I can contact. (The first connection I could think of has retired. . . .)
Hang in there.
I don't have a resource for brokensoldier, sadly. I can say that this is nothing new nor is it unique to the US.
I am sorry you're getting screwed over BrokenSoldier. I hope you get it resolved.
It is a sad situation and the government is not the only one to blame. Although I agree part of the problem is that bureaucrats want to save money by screwing over service members, (I could go on a rant about the many ways they have screwed us over), there has also been a great deal of fraud perpetrated by people wanting to get disability payments when there was nothing wrong with them. That is why they cracked down and it is now hell to get a disability discharge. Blame the government and the assholes who took advantage of the system and got disability when they shouldn't have. Both are to blame.
Posted by: Rich Charlebois | July 23, 2008 12:20 AM
The only controversy inherent in this discussion is the fact that the government made soldiers promises regarding health care, and they are not living up to those promises. My claims are not judgement calls - they are conclusions based upon personal experience. Nowhere in my write-up did I beg for sympathy for my injuries. What I did was ask for assistance in getting the government to keep its own promises to us as wounded veterans.
Thanks for proving that you are the very type of physician that contributes to the problems being encountered by me and my brothers and sisters in arms. I have no idea where you got the basis for calling my claims unfounded, other than a shameless display of pure dismissal. If you want to call me a liar, grow a pair and come out and simply say it. Short of that, present any valid refutations of any of the claims I have made, though it will be very hard for you to do so because all I have related so far is an account of what has happened to me and the difficulties I have experienced during my effort to receive the care I need.
As far as my comments being anecdotal, that is partially correct. A word that fits my account above is narrative. What other evidence would you have me proffer? Let me help you out a bit:
anecdote - (n) - a short account of a particular incident or event of an interesting or amusing nature, often biographical.
Exactly how would you suggest I relate what has happpened to me without giving such evidence? And apparently you completely missed the part of the post in which I told whomever may come along to take this story the following:
And you made another error in your argument. My personal situation, along with the countless other situations involving countless other veterans, merits investigation.
The fact that the government has not held up its end of the bargain in taking care of those who have served it to the detriment of their own health and well-being - and in many cases, their lives, most certainly does merit castigation.
I don't know who you are or where you're located, but know that I sincerely hope that I never have to be subjected to your medical "care" (especially if it is in any way equitable to your proficiency in logical reasoning and argumentation), and I also feel sincerely sorry for those that do
MAJeff @ 18 - "I would add one thing to that agreement--we will exhaust every possible avenue before sending you into combat, and we will never do so without just cause."
If only. Imagine all the people that would have benefited, on both sides of so many wars. Imagine the wealth and health and happiness that might have been.
There really is something to be said for the old style combat; send out the king/prince/duke/leader for single combat. It must surely concentrate the mind on the possibilities for diplomacy.
@rob adams; #7
He's still a reservist. i think that's the technical term, inactive reserve for another two years.
His position was important enough that even after the first wounds, he was still put back into the fray.
You've probably heard of him, in one way or another, he(or his actions) have been in the news at least twice.
When he was living with me (because he both couldn't work and wasn't receiving help from the gov't), they actually almost convinced him to come back into a combat role, and after declining that, they invited him back as a consultant and training role... I told him to turn it down, as we both knew he'd end up in combat again, it's just his nature now.
I've met so many people disabled during service to this country that it's astounding... then again i lived in Los Angeles for a very long time, and the concentration of Veterans is rather high there, i think.
Sorry for the late reply and the long one, too.
BrokenSoldier: it looks like this is going to go further than you hoped!
Posted by: S.Scott | July 23, 2008 12:29 AM
In retrospect, I made the mistake of not qualifying that statement by saying that is my understanding of the procedure and regulation, because as we have well seen, the government doesn't really always feel obligated to follow their own rules. I certainly didn't mean to contradict what you were saying purely out of my own experience, but that is exactly how I came across - and it was unintentional. My apologies. Thanks for the well wishes, and I'll definitely hang in there. Hey's that's why they call it 'soldiering on,' after all, isn't it? :)
FWIW, I'm certain I saw a piece on this precise issue sometime in the past year or two on mainstream TV news. Specifically addressed the "lowballing your disabled rating" and "having to fight to even get what they grudgingly allowed" issues. Can't remember who ran it, though... :( My best guess is PBS' News Hour.
Good luck to you, man. Wish I knew someone. And Dr. Charlebois does at least raise an interesting problem: It seems that for certain illnesses there's a big disconnect between many physicians and their patients, even before there's any motivation for the physician to downplay the patient's claims. I wonder if Orac would have some insight here?
Posted by: Rayven Alandria | July 23, 2008 12:59 AM
You'll definitely find no disagreement here. I know numerous people of the type you described, and that type of person sickens me just as much - if not more - than the government's bias towards their own budget.
Posted by: Louise Van Court | July 23, 2008 12:00 AM
I had not heard of that fund - thanks for the info!
Posted by: genewitch | July 23, 2008 1:14 AM
Yeah, it definitely does look that way! And my hope is that this will end up in measures that will help take care of the problem at its root, and in doing so help the countless others who are going through much worse things than I have.
I already have a yellow ribbon, what more do you want?? /sarcasm
Brokensoldier, watch "Thanks for the support" by Roy Zimmerman.
niobe @ #101:
That video was great - its def on my favorites list now!
Following the example of an earlier commenter here, I've got letters prepped for my Senators and Rep on the subject, quoting your story and urging them to get in touch with you and help you tell it to the rest of Congress (and the country). If my brother's right, Durbin at least actually gives a damn about these issues, so maybe he'll do something. I did have an experience when I was a kid of a Congressman actually picking up on something I wrote him a letter about that he had no other specific reason to be interested in. (I'd been to the Everglades on vacation and I wrote him to say how important I thought it was to protect them (WTF was I thinking writing an Illinois Congressman about this?), and he later turned up as one of the two primary authors of a protection bill.) I've got no idea if my letter had anything to do with it at all, of course, but it still gives me a faint hope that maybe sometimes these things might actually make a difference.
Good luck, BrokenSoldier, both with getting the benefits you deserve and with getting your story out there where it can make a difference.
I also live on the other side of the world (and in the other hemisphere, but please accept my sympathies for what you and other veterans are going through. I certainly hope that our Australian government is doing better job than yours is of looking after our vets. I haven't heard the same sorts of complaints from our vets like I have from yours, so I assume that our government IS doing a better job. Mind you, we don't have nearly the same number of soldiers in the field as you guys do, so I guess that might make a difference as well. At any rate, it sounds disgraceful that you folk have to fight tooth and nail to get your government to keep it's promises. Just out of interest, does anyone have any information about how many American senators and congressmen have their sons or daughters serving overseas in war zones?
Posted by: DingoDave | July 23, 2008 2:16 AM
I haven't done the research to find that out, but I do know that it is something that they keep very close to the vest, for security reasons. Plus, during my time in Iraq I met a couple of young soldiers who were the children of certain legislators (state-level), and they were not eager to let that fact out, for the sole reason that they did not want to be seen as receiving special treatment of any sort. While it would be interesting to know, I don't know how much publicity that sort of information gets, so it might be difficult to find out.
Rich Charlebois
So, you're putting Migraines on the same incredulity level as Fibromyalgia? Fibrmyalgia is an uncommon complaint trumped up so that drug companies can market niche demographic drugs to the wider population. The Ancient Egyptians had prescriptions for Migraines, and they didn't even chalk it up to demons.
How about you walk in the shoes of someone with panic disorder or depression before you even think of suggesting that they don't qualify for benefits. Panic disorder and depression are both disabling, whether or not the cause for them is a chemical imbalance, and whether or not they are best treated with drugs. At the very least, a person with mental disorders induced by war need some sort of mental therapy, but you would deny them that based on your personal theory that depression and panic disorder might be imaginary diseases?
Count yourself lucky that you've never had to care for someone with one of these diseases.
I'm sure glad you're not my doctor.
I'd like to think that the UK government treats its soldiers better, and the NHS means medical care is available regardless, but there are similar stories here about how returning soldiers are poorly treated; that our government has broken the military covenant.
I'm a great supporter of the military (although not its corrupt and self-serving masters, nor its procurement policies) and would have joined the navy; the senior service after all :)
Unfortunately by the rating you described above I'd qualify as over 30% disabled without even entering combat as I suffer at least two migraines a month and they force me to crawl into bed pumped full of pain killers. I'd never
A migraine charity recently said that during an attack a sufferer is functionally as disabled as a quadriplegic. I certainly agree that during an attack I'm incapable of doing anything other than just lying there fighting the pain.
If you gained this disability as a result of protecting your country and in effect the government that sent you there by putting your life on the line for them, then I certainly think you are entitled to some form of compensation and care to help you deal with them.
I hope you succeed in highlighting this issue and getting both yourself and other veterans the care they deserve.
BrokenSoldier has been very unkind to me in several threads, so I see no need to spare thought for his feelings.
You call me a "waste of space", BrokenSoldier, but I have never been a servant of jingoism, nor have I ever been willing to take anyone's life. The wars in Vietnam and Iraq would never have been possible if goons like you weren't ready to kill and die at the whim of the US government.
Shorter J:
"Broken Soldier looks vulnerable, he has left his guard down! I WILL have my revenge! Bwahahaha!!!"
Shorter shorter J: you are a bit of an asshole, aren't you?
So Broken Soldier, what about all those people you and other American and British soldiers have killed or injured or helped to kill or in a series of illegal wars? What help are the American and British governments giving to them?
Were you forcibly conscripted into the American Armed forces or did you join of your own free will knowing that you were going to be trained to use weapons and knowing that you were likely to run the risk of other people using their weapons against you?
Were you forcibly conscripted or were you paid relatively well and given lots of training, much of it usable in civilian life?
I have a lot more sympathy with all those who have suffered from the actions of the, volunteer, well paid, well clothed and well fed, American military than I have for those American volunteers who find themselves injured as a consequence of their volunteering.
Anyway, if you can't take a joke you shouldn't have joined.
Posted by: J | July 23, 2008 3:43 AM
This is coming from the dipshit that espouses the same kind of bullshit - like a good little parrot - that comes out of the mouth of the very same politicians that started the war in Iraq.
And just a little hint - your idiotic posts could only hurt my "feelings" if they made valid points instead of spouting off talking points from the intellectually vacant pundits and politicians you so faithfully and incoherently try to defend. Keep trying, though - it's amusing.
Rich Charlebois,
First - you sound like a miserable git.
Second - you remind me of any number of medics I've run into over an interesting career (civilian) whose initial training in some area - in this case non-fatal brain injury - was deficient and who spend the rest of their professional careers not learning but trying to pretend such things don't exist.
Sure, in the Napoleonic Wars brokenSoldier would have been dead before he received any medical treatment at all. You want to go back there? No? Then sort out your attitude. It's you who has the problem.
brokenSoldier,
With you all the way, brother, but I'm sorry I had to get that off my chest first.
This is coming from the dipshit that espouses the same kind of bullshit - like a good little parrot - that comes out of the mouth of the very same politicians that started the war in Iraq.
Really? Would you care to give an example? If you can't, I'm going to assume that you're lying, once again.
And just a little hint - your idiotic posts could only hurt my "feelings" if they made valid points instead of spouting off talking points from the intellectually vacant pundits and politicians you so faithfully and incoherently try to defend.
Now this one is undoubtedly a flagrant lie, no matter what you say to defend it. I've never spoken in favour of any pundit or politician while on this blog.
Not that it really needs me saying it, but J, you're a dick.
Personally, I have strong ethical concerns about military service, which is why I never chose to go that direction myself, but that doesn't prevent me from understanding that the vast majority of the members of our military chose that path because they were willing to risk an awful lot in the service of our country and its ideals. Sure there are always gonna be some goons and thugs, same as any other organization. Sure, there are an awful lot of structural flaws in the military and its associated politics. And sure they've been assigned some pretty fucked-up missions lately (with predictably hideous consequences). But that's not the fault of the vast majority of soldiers who have done their best to serve honorably and well in the lousy circumstances that we saddled them with. That kind of commitment deserves respect and gratitude, whether you agree with their reasoning in choosing military service or not. It definitely doesn't deserve your lousy two-bit sniping.
In particular, you've got no call to insult BrokenSoldier, who by all evidences here is a decent and thoughtful person who took on a difficult job in the hope of doing something good for the world, and is now paying the price decent and thoughtful people all too often end up paying for the crime of being decent and thoughtful. Take your hateful trolling somewhere else.
Has anyone checked to see whether this despicably dishonest, vile snake morally regrets joining the army?
In particular, you've got no call to insult BrokenSoldier, who by all evidences here is a decent and thoughtful person...
Who continually and pathologically tells lies.
Really, J, I don't always agree with brokensoldier but he always comes across as thoughtful and intelligent, which is more than I can say for you at the moment. I do not like the military or the military mindset, but I am unwilling to say "I told you so" or "you deserved it" to someone who has been abused by that system. Indeed, it is *because* I dislike the system that I support people like brokensoldier.
brokensoldier, I've dugg this (joined digg to do it) and posted it to my lj, for what good it might do.
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/04/when_will_maj_freddy_j_welbo…
And it looks like we've got hate-troll number two now, one "Betsy Newson". Or is she just a sockpuppet for J? Who knows, who cares. In any case, "Betsy", I would guess that the vast majority of the commenters on this blog were opposed to the recent idiotic wars for precisely the reason you name — the likely (and completely unnecessary and unproductive) horrors that would be experienced by noncombatants in the relevant countries. The toll this Iraq nonsense in particular has taken on the civilian population has exceeded even my most pessimistic initial expectations (and I was extremely pessimistic), to the point where I can hardly force myself to read the news from there anymore.
But I don't see what the point is of acting like caring about Iraqis is mutually exclusive with caring about American soldiers. Oddly enough, some of us manage to care about both groups at the same time. Amazing, isn't it?
Sure, we can have some kind of stupid argument about the degree to which ordinary American soldiers are culpable in the monstrosity these wars have become, given that they were bound (once enlisted) to obey the orders of their superior officers on pain of jail and dishonorable discharge, obligated by honor to help defend their fellows, hopeful that they could use their skills to do something good, and lied to (just like the rest of us) about the reasons why these wars were a good idea, the likelihood of success, and the honorable nature of our government's intentions. But you know what? Fuck that noise. If you can't understand where the real blame belongs in this situation (squarely on the shoulders of George W. Bush and his insane neo-con hangers-on, and well, maybe also the people who voted for him not once but twice jesus christ), then you're not worth talking to.
And, in any case, whether one only cares about Iraqis, or whether one can perform the amazing mental gymnastics necessary to care about two! whole! different! groups! of! people! at! the! same! time! (wow!), the way to help is basically the same — work to get the morons who started all this out of office, so that hopefully we'll get a fresh crop of slightly-less-moronic people in there who can maybe handle matters in a marginally more sensible way that might result in fewer Iraqis (and fewer Americans) being harmed in the future. Attacking people like BrokenSoldier who are basically decent human beings who got caught up in this nonsense by trying to do something good is about as counterproductive to that (not to mention assholish) as you can get.
PZ, can you get rid of these trolls? This kind of shit really doesn't belong on this post.
And that is *not* to say that I'm not aware of the civilian casualties and trauma that our military has caused in Iraq, Afghanistan, and other countries. I am a taxpayer & voter in the US and as such am responsible for the actions of my country, whether I agree with them or not; I share the blame for the moral failures of this country and try to do what I can to change our direction.
Attacking people like BrokenSoldier who are basically decent human beings who got caught up in this nonsense by trying to do something good is about as counterproductive to that (not to mention assholish) as you can get.
And then, what about people like me who are frequently called neo-cons for merely having bad things to say about Islam? I haven't ever supported any war, religion or right-wing policy on this blog.
Outrageous double standards are being displayed here. Someone who actually fought in the US army (and might have killed, for all you know) is a "basically decent human being who got caught up in this nonsense", while a freethinker who criticizes Islam and combats sweeping statements about Americans is a contemptible neo-con.
Posted by: Betsy Newson | July 23, 2008 4:00 AM
If you actually knew what you were talking about, you'd know the answer to your own question. I could cite well over fifteen examples of individuals that we alone, as a single brigade, sent back here to the States during my tour in order to have surgery that prolonged - and in three cases, saved - their lives, not to mention the countless number of medical operations we conducted into villages that had not seen a competent doctor in years in order to ensure that the people of those villages were given medical care and necessary medicine - medicine they would never have seen had we not been there. We had a direct responsibility for coordinating, supplying, and protecting the polling sites during two national elections, both of which were wrought with attacks that were failed attempts to disrupt the process. (Unless you don't think ensuring the safety of voters in the democratic process is help in any way...)
If you want to get into a debate over the causes and preponderance of collateral damage, you'd be in over your head. You have no idea how many villages we kept safe from the grip of insurgents, nor would you care. You have no idea how many times our soldiers risked, and even gave, their own lives in keeping innocent civilians out of the line of fire, nor would you care. You have no idea how many times Iraqi children were able to walk their streets and go to school in safety solely because of the security we provided, nor would you care. It's painfully apparent that the one thing you care about is propping yourself up as some sort of moral intellectual, but you fail in even that since you obviously cannot form a remotely intellectual argument, instead choosing to spout off generic, fatuous objections to military service without knowing anything about what we do as soldiers and how we go about doing it.
And you certainly have no idea what I did or did not do, and who I did or did not kill or help kill during my time in Iraq. Your arrogant moral posturing is worthless, because you don't have a single piece of a fact or a single supported conclusion with which to back up your point. I would be offended, but that would require that I take your comments seriously in the first place. That would require that I have some sort of indication that you're not talking completely out of your ass on the subject. And sadly enough for you, that's just not the case.
In short, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Before asking what our military has given the civilians of Iraq, I'd suggest you dip a little bit deeper into the facts and make sure your ridiculous accusations actually hold water, because in this case they certainly do not.
Again, you idiot, point out where I asked for any sympathy for the fact that I was wounded. The point of this post is to address the fact that the government has not provided the medical care it promised to soldiers - it has absolutely shit to do with complaining about being injured in the first place. Thanks for trying, though.
And again you show how much knowledge you don't have concerning the situation you're attempting to address, because as a cavalry officer, I got exactly no operational training that is transferable to civilian life in terms of useable skills aside rom the ancillary skills that you could learn in any other job, such as management of time, personnel, and organizational units. When is the last time you saw a job description in the civilian world that listed screen lines, movements to contact, armed convoy escort, or counter-mortar patrols as recommended experience?
And if you want to contend that soldiers are paid well, you're barking up the wrong tree entirely. A soldier in Iraq works well over 18 hours a day, oftentimes longer than even that, and for the average soldier that equates to much less than minimum wage, even considering the combat tax exemption. So here again, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
The "sympathy" you have for those people is of the self-serving type that you simply speak about having. You have never seen the face of one of these people you so greatly feel for. You have no idea about their plight in life, and you have no clue as to the horrible conditions some of them live through. At best, you've seen it on TV or read about it in the newspaper from the comfort of your own home. Your sympathy is worthless, for you haven't done a fraction of what our soldiers have done to try to help these people. You conflate soldiers with war-mongers, and assume that we're over ther burning through towns, killing innocents at will. That is what lays bare your ignorant dependence on dogmatic and unfounded criticism and shows that your empty assertions are nothing more than feigned, utterly uninformed indignance towards military service. Your ignorance blinds you to the fact that soldiers have absolutely no say in where they are ordered to deploy to, and you obviously don't know enough about military service to know that we're sworn to protect those very people from those that seek to kill and/ or subjugate them and their families.
Well paid, well clothed, and well fed? I suggest you take the chance to live the life of a soldier - though I doubt you'd be able to - and decide how much those things you said actually make sense. If you're living under the illusion that a soldier on the ground gets all the clothes and food he or she needs, then you have absolutely no clue how a soldier lives. A soldier's life is lived in housing civilians would consider substandard (and that's here at home), we get sent overseas for a yearlong tour with, at best, six uniforms, and we eat cold food that comes out of a plastic bag. Before presuming to speak so arrogantly about the conditions in which a soldier lives, you might want to gather a little bit of accurate information about it first.
And exactly which joke are you talking about? The one where you're playing at argumentation in a transparent attempt to shift the discussion on this thread away from mistreated veterans to an inane discussion on how immoral you think it is to join the military? Because that's the only thing that's making me laugh here.
There are plenty of places on this wide world we call the internet for you to go validly debate the choice to serve, but this thread doesn't have a damn thing to do with that.
But considering you cannot parse the difference between the political policies and maneuvering done by civilian politicans and the operations of a soldier in the field, I'd suggest you stay out of any such debate in the first place. It would simply serve to make you look like even more of an imbecile than you have already shown yourself to be.
I feel both sad and kind of guilty reading this story. Why guilty? I don't live in the US, but just less than a decade ago I suffered from severe depression which almost [but not quite] lead to the end of my life.
After receiving treatment for several months, I was given what would amount to $800 per month by the British government, with pretty much no questions asked, and while I was still living with my parents and wasn't paying any rent. If I had been paying rent [or a mortgage], that would have been covered, as well.
While there is no question that it helped me to recover and I am extremely grateful for the assistance, I can't help but feel guilty about the care that I received, knowing that people who are far more deserving than I, are struggling. I hadn't served my country. I hadn't put my life on the line to protect freedom. In fact, I'd been pretty stupid and rather enjoyed my youth a little too much [although I did pay the price for that].
I would much rather that people who don't deserve money be given it, as is/was the case in Britain, than people who do deserve it, not, as seems to be the case in the US. And there is no excuse. The money that's required is peanuts compared to military spending, overall.
There is a minimum standard that we should all insist on, in my opinion -- a prerequisite that, without which, makes a mockery of the claim that we live in civilized and compassionate societies. Without that minimum standard, this kind of thing will continue to happen, because politicians will use anything and everything to be able to go before the people with a tax cutting agenda.
Nobody likes paying taxes, but human dignity is far more important than a slightly better car, a slightly bigger house, or an even flatter screened TV, in my opinion.
I'm so sorry to hear about this, brokenSoldier. We will all help in any way that we can, even if it is simply an offer of the moral support that you need to fight the system. It makes me angry that your care is even on the table as a bargaining chip in a political game. You deserve better from the self-styled "greatest country in the world".
Posted by: maureen | July 23, 2008 4:15 AM
No apologies needed at all. I thank you for your sentiments.
I do not like the military or the military mindset, but I am unwilling to say "I told you so" or "you deserved it" to someone who has been abused by that system. Indeed, it is *because* I dislike the system that I support people like brokensoldier.
I would never set down such a preposterously fallacious argument, I can assure you. "We won't get little Jimmy out of the well because he shouldn't have been playing around there in the first place" is always nonsense.
My "argument" was simply that the condition of being an ex-goon of the US government is not deserving of our respect.
Posted by: J | July 23, 2008 4:28 AM
In my last recognition of the bile that spews forth from that sad excuse for a brain you've got, I'll simply use your own words as a response to your accusations of my pathological habit of lying:
PS: Don't take that as a request to respond - I see no point in feeding a troll as ridiculous as you've proven yourself to be any further.
BrokenSoldier,
The "care" provided to the Iraqis by you and you soldier buddies doesn't amount to much given that you were the ones who created the whole mess.
Really? Would you care to give an example? If you can't, I'm going to assume that you're lying, once again.
Easy. You made various false allegations about me (#111). I asked you to back them up, and you have evidently retreated. You were demonstrably lying.
Posted by: mandrake | July 23, 2008 4:51 AM
Much appreciated, mandrake. If it's okay with you, would you mind e-mailing me the url for your lj? I've enjoyed your posts here, and I'd like to give it a read if that's all right.
Would you agree, though, that a soldier is due the medical treatment or disability pay that he/she needs to live? And that he/she was promised? After all, "not deserving of our respect" and "not deserving of medical treatment/disability pay" are not the same thing.
Honestly, J, I haven't followed whatever shit you may have posted elsewhere, and I don't care. You're being a dick here and that's enough for me. I'm not going to condemn BrokenSoldier simply for having been in the military, even if he may have killed somebody (who for all you know, since we're speaking in hypotheticals, may have been trying to kill him or somebody else, which is the usual reason one tends to kill people when one is in the military). Unless you've got genuine evidence that BrokenSoldier was, you know, casually murdering civilians or something, you've got no justification for impugning his service record.
And that's the reason you're a dick -- BrokenSoldier shared something pretty personal here in the hope that it could be used to help other people who are in the same situation, and you just came rushing in here to shit all over him in response. From where I sit it looks like BrokenSoldier was doing something decent and thoughtful and you were just being an asshole. No double standard at all. Maybe in some other threads you're the lonely persecuted freethinker you claim to be, but here you're just another nasty troll that deserves to be squashed.
Posted by: J | July 23, 2008 5:19 AM
Considering I didn't set foot in Iraq until two and a half years after the ridiculous war was started, I didn't start a goddamn thing. There's your proof of you being an intellectually vacant liar that habitually tries to make ridiculous points with nonexistent reasoning.
You wanted proof. Goodbye.
Its a scandal !
The whole topics seems to be idealy suited for the presedential election campain....
Why don't the Democrats use it to their advantage ???
That would help the effected vets and those currently risking their lives and health for a president who "served" his country in the military with zero risks (thanks to dady i assume...)
Considering I didn't set foot in Iraq until two and a half years after the ridiculous war was started, I didn't start a goddamn thing. There's your proof of you being an intellectually vacant liar that habitually tries to make ridiculous points with nonexistent reasoning.
Here's what I said:
The "care" provided to the Iraqis by you and you soldier buddies doesn't amount to much given that you [plural] were the ones [plural, notice -- I'm talking about "soldiers" collectively] who created the whole mess.
So no, my statement is clearly defensible. Your above allegations, however, were raw lies.
And that's the reason you're a dick -- BrokenSoldier shared something pretty personal here in the hope that it could be used to help other people who are in the same situation, and you just came rushing in here to shit all over him in response.
Take a look over the thread. I made a casual observation about the stupidity of joining the military, and BrokenSoldier responded with a vicious, disproportionate attack, and a host of false charges.
J, you're a git.
My cynicism says that Obama using the sad state of disability compensation as an election issue would probably be played by the nasty little talking TV heads as a misstep because of how McCain is willing to just baldfacedly lie about his support for veterans' health issues. (BrokenSoldier mentions this on his blog, I think, and Digby's got it too.) Much of the media is too dumb or too gullible to challenge lies like this, not to mention they'd try to play others' challenges to it as criticism of his military service. Which, geez louise, was a good thing he did but does not in any way excuse his other failures. (This is also not a double standard — if BrokenSoldier is a jerk or a moron elsewhere I don't think anybody should have any compunctions about calling him on it, not that I've noticed him being a jerk or a moron elsewhere.)
But I still think Obama could and should try to make this work. The nasty little TV talking heads are becoming increasingly irrelevant, and McCain's record on this is so genuinely lousy that it would make an awfully good point of differentiation between them, and one that's a complete loser for McCain.
Poxy #31 "And, PZ you could do the noble thing too: Offer to give Billy-Boy all the fracking crackers in your possession (each nicely preserved between the pages of a quran) if Bill and his Cathleague get justice for Broken Soldier."
Y'know what, that's an intriguing idea. It's hardly blackmail, because as a True Christian, Donohue should care about people like Broken Soldier. I do think that PZ should use the crackers in a constructive way. Your suggestion would end Crackergate (which lets face it, has become tedious) in a positive way. Actually, I can't see how Donohue could refuse, without looking like a heartless dick.
Broken Soldier, you have my deepest sympathies. From what I gather, UK vets have experienced the same contempt from our government. It really is sickening.
@@ 32, 109, 115, 116
J,
you were not convincing as a right wing wingnut when you accused all the other commenters here of "radical leftism bordering to communism" (although I doubt you would recognise communism if it shook your hand); and you are not convincing as an antiwar activist either. Time for the dungeon, troll.
> series of illegal wars
@ 110,
Iraq, possibly yes, but Afghanistan? The invasion of Afghanistan had the blessing of the UN in general, the security council in peculiar and the legal Afghan goverment - the Taliban were only recognised by Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and some Gulf emirates, lest we forget. It might not have been a wise decision to go to Afghanistan, it's a fucked up place, and there is little to win and much to loose there, but not even the most diehard legalist or positivist, not even Kelsen himself, would have doubts about the legality.
This is one more sad example of the government's betrayal of our soldiers. They were sent off to fight a war without a constitutional declaration of war, which was an egregious dereliction of duty by the congress.
-jcr
you were not convincing as a right wing wingnut when you accused all the other...
Since when was bemoaning the existence of "political correctness" sufficient to mark anyone a right-winger -- let alone a wingnut?
Posted by: MH | July 23, 2008 5:57 AM
That's pretty much my estimation of him, anyway... ;)
Thank you, MH. It does seem to be a universal problem, but then again governmental greed seems to be pretty widespread in and of itself, so it doesn't surprise me all that much. Sickening, definitely, but not surprising. It pisses me off to see anyone, in any country being shafted over that which they've been promised - the elderly or disabled on social security, vets, workers getting screwed by workman's compensation...it's all utterly disgusting.
Johannes,
UN approval doesn't make a war legal as far as the US constitution is concerned. The UN is not a superior authority to the US congress, it is an association of which the United States is a member.
The UN charter also states that any country that goes to war under UN auspices should do so in compliance with their own laws.
-jcr
Posted by: John C. Randolph | July 23, 2008 6:06 AM
Well put, sir. Well put, indeed. There's all this talk now about a need for an updated War Powers Act, which seems unnecessary to me. It'd just be a lot easier to stick to the Constitution we've already got, and make any President who wants to send troops off to war ask for the declaration first - no exceptions.
# 142: jcr
Well, the problem is, that 95% of the worlds population doesn't care about the US congress. But if you do go against the UN, most of us would take your goverment to be commiting a war crime / ie your president and all of his military to be acting criminaly.
Not a nice thing ... (and the reason for the court in den Hague (even if the US doesnt like that institution....)
Alas, the US did trick the UB securety council into a sort of "ok" by knowingly presenting false evidence in the case of Iraq.
But that is irrelevant in this case. The soldiers where doing their job for the USA and should be looked after if things go wrong. (unless they did willingly and knowingly commit normal or war-crimes while doing duty. As was the case in the Abu Ghraib Prison)
Broken Soldier; I wish you all the best, good luck and hopefully good health!
Posted by: Nino | July 23, 2008 6:25 AM
While it would be convenient to claim that those aren't real soldiers (like the Catholics using the same NTS argument in dismissing the death threats against PZ), that's just not the case. They're soldiers, all right - they're just horrible ones, and war criminals to boot. Such creatures deserve no defense.
Thanks - Best wishes to you as well!
Apropos of nothing, here's a thing I want to know -- why is it always the left nut people are willing to give, but never the right? I don't have any myself, so I don't really know much about this. Are left nuts not as good as right nuts? Are they less fun? Uglier? Why all this hating on the left nuts?
He can play with both of mine.
"It does seem to be a universal problem..."
It does, but I wonder if it really is? Do members of the armed forces of countries like Sweden, Germany, France, etc, etc get treated in the same way when they get injured whilst on duty? It would be interesting to find out, if only to be able to say something like "this is how the French treat vets; why can't the U.S. do the same?"
Anyway, best of luck Broken Soldier. Keep us all informed about your progress.
Broken Soldier
I have posted the message above on a site I frequent so hopefully I may have some contacts for you later.
Many are ex US soldiers, others are still serving. Most should be sympathetic.
Some are right wing christians so I would not mention your views on religion though ;)
Good luck
brokenSoldier, my second eldest brother finally got some help for Agent Orange and other related issues from Vietnam. The shame is that it took over 25 years. Keep pushing, keep documenting. I have written my Congress people on the issue again.
I know it sounds kind of silly, but am glad I only need psychiatric treatment. I have both mental and physical scars, but my body works well enough for middle age. I was and am lucky.
Ciao
Assume for the sake of argument that the bureaucrats in the VA really want to do right by the vets--is there something stopping them? Do they, for example, have proper computers, or any sort of functional tracking system for the paperwork?
This administration claims to be devoted to the idea that government should be run like a business, but that's mostly about (a) acting--through the magic of privatization--as a conduit between their cronies and the US Treasury; and (b) the utter convenience of the Market-Forces-Will-Cure-All-Ills cult--self-administering and accountability-free (you can see why the current Commander-in-Chief loves it). The upshot is that almost none of them have any managerial skills or experience; otherwise they'd know that the Dickensian model they favor isn't the way to get much done--in the VA or anywhere else.
I honestly don't think this administration wants to screw vets--that implies that it's even thinking of y'all. It's just that--at their least political--they honestly think everything is better done by the private sector. Unfortunately, they're also cut out the sort of check-and-balances that are supposed to make the private sector work--like competition (remember all those no-bid contracts?) or regulation.
I'm not trying to justify this clerk losing Todd's paperwork (1) or the hoops they expect BrokenSoldier to jump though. But if you asked these federal employees what they'd have to do to get just one of these cases straightened out--well, could they? And if they did, would they still have a job? There's a bottleneck someplace--probably several.
I know it's dull to talk about fixing an important but poorly functioning bureaucracy. But I think it's a better explanation than malice.
Shorter Molly, NYC:
Don't ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence.
Wandering, a little
I work and have worked for federal agencies for over 25 years. The push to privatize* is preposterous on its face. Government functions are not profit driven. My agency is charged with ensuring safety. Private industry intentionally pares down effort to be the least legally safem, because safety costs $. Throwing profit-making into the mix is anathema to our core gummint functions.
*I used to work in Dept of Navy, and would joke about privatizing - when will they privatize soldiering - and fuck if they didn't, thank you Mercenaries R Us Inc. (BrokenSoldier, any insight about the mercs?)
Back on track, I will also phone Senator Webb's office, they will take your info, it adds to the total perceived level of concern, and they respond better to more personal forms of communication as opposed to emails and faxes.
2 words : Military Covenant
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Covenant
BTW, the VA motto is plastered on the outside of their building. It's a quote from Abe Lincoln's second inaugural speech:
"to care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow and his orphan."
So how's that working for ya?
Broken Soldier:
I am a Canadian pacifist. I can not, and will not, ever join the military. I can not comprehend how you came to the decision to join the military... but that was your choice, and you made that commitment to your country where I could not.
I admire you. I am indebted to you. I am ashamed that your government, and mine, turns it's back on it's fighting men and women every day in order to save a buck.
I know that a letter form a Canadian citizen does not carry much, if any, weight with your government, but I will take today to write those letters just the same. I want your government to know the world is watching, that we see the inequity, the lies and the problems created by an unwieldy system that seems to serve only to keep itself alive and it's bureaucrats in cold hard cash.
I know that my words will mean little. I know that I can tell you how sorry I am and how much your story hurts to read and it doesn't change a thing or give you what you need to be healthy and happy again and it doesn't give you back the time you have lost... but I am sorry, and it does hurt, and I'm going to make sure everyone I know reads your story and understands what must be done about it.
Broken Soldier, thank you. Thank you for being willing to go where I am not, to do work I could not. Thank you for protecting innocent citizens of a country that isn't yours, thank you for protecting their fledgling democracy so that others may be as free as I have been every day of my life. Thank you for being honest and open about this subject and sharing your story. A million times, thank you. I hope that your government and the citizens of your country can pull their heads out of their butts long enough to address the problems with the broken promises of your military.
With much love and respect,
Plex Flexico.
Tom:
Sorry it has taken me this long to get back to you
No, I'm pretty clear on the process, having just been through it. It may be a bit different from the Air Force, but this is how the Army works it: In the Army, the PEB gives you a rating, and if that rating is above 30%, then Army must medically retire you. The difference is that in the Army, the PEB only rates those injuries that preclude service, while once you get out the VA rates all conditions. Also, when you receive over 30% and are retired, the money comes from the Army and the amount you get per month is the rating percentage taken against your base pay. (And they do a "high-3 average" - they take your last three eyars of base pay and average them together to determine what they will use to take the percentage from.) Once you're retired, you file your disability claim with the VA as well. With the VA, they rate you and you get a certain amount of money for your percentage - the difference is that the money you get from the VA is not calculated by rank, but rather is the same for everyone. (100% for the VA is just over $2,000, no matter what rank you were.)
If you are medically retired by the Army (rating above 30%), then the Army pays you a disability check monthly. That was the check that did not start until six months after they retired me (it was supposed to be a sixty day wait). Once you are rated by the VA upon getting out, then the amount of money you get monthly from the VA gets subtracted from that which the Army sends you. (i.e., hypothetically, if you get $2000 a month from the Army for your medical retirement, and the VA awards you a rating that equals to $1500, then the Army will send you $500 a month and the VA will send you $1500 a month.)
Posted by: Todd | July 23, 2008 12:23 AM
No condescension taken at all. I know it is a huge administration, but the VA is much more helpful than the Army's medical community. I have only just started to deal with the VA, because I have only recently (January) been retired from the Army and finished with that process - just for a little perspective, I was wounded in September 2005, and I just now got the Army to retire me.
Posted by: Plex Flexico | July 23, 2008 8:25 AM
While your words may not provide anything tangible, they are most certainly not meaningless to me. Thank you for your thoughts and consideration, and I also appreciate your effort in writing those letters more than I can say. Like I've said before here, just knowing that there are people like all of you out there that show genuine concern for a cause not your own gives someone in my situation a little bit of extra strength. I have come close to giving up (signing whatever the Army wants to give me just to get out of the whole process) before, but my father was there to help. And you all are showing me that my effort to publicize these governmental action is not in vain, which is an intangible that is very valuable to me. Much thanks to all here!
brokensoldier 157,
It's about the responsibility, duh!
/silly
> Since when was bemoaning the existence of "political
> correctness" sufficient to mark anyone a right-winger
> -- let alone a wingnut?
Since when is calling everybody and his dog a "radical leftist, bordering to a Communist" a criticism of political correctness? You claim to fight against an imaginary leftist hegemony, and this strawman is typical for right-wingers.
Beside this, what you call "Communism" is probably Stalinism, and getting called a Stalinist is an insult for most leftists, leave alone liberals.
This said, I think neither your anti-pc nor your antimilitarist position is genuine, you just act as an antagonist for the sake of antagonism, in other words, you are a troll.
Broken Soldier, I'm so sorry to hear that the bureaucracy is putting yet another stumbling block in front of wounded veterans. I don't work for the military or DoD, but I am a VA physician. All I can say is that most of us really do care about you guys, even if the bureaucracy ties one hand behind our backs.
BrokenSoldier,
I would also like to offer my sympathy, and encouragement. The best way of fighting injustice is to shine light on it and you are doing just that.
It does not matter what people though of the war in Iraq, or Afghanistan, or anywhere, or even if the injuries occurred outside of conflict, a society has a duty to look after those injured in its service.
Creating a story.
If you want some serious publicity, you need to step up the volume a bit. It's sad to say, but "trouble with the VA" stories are old news. This is just an example, but something like the following will get you where you want to go:
- find a willing Canadian male who is disabled (it's important that he's disabled).
- marry him so that you'll be eligible for Canadian health benefits.
- because your new husband is also disabled, you'll qualify for family benefits (about $900 a month for folks who are chronically disabled). You just need to find a doctor who'll recommend you for Family Benefits (it has a different name in different provinces).
- once that is all setup, collect for a few months. Then you have to get caught. You need to generate evidence that you and your new husband aren't really lovers, but are faking the marriage for the reasons outlined above. Pressure can be put on Immigration Canada to press charges, get your marriage annulled, and ultimately get you deported back to the United States.
Now THAT is a good story. Veteran's benefits, gay marriage, national pride, and universal health care all rolled into one (you're even an atheist - how hardcore is that?). Film the whole process for the documentary after the news coverage.
...it wouldn't make a bad movie script actually. Make sure to get footage that outlines trying to get caught. That way, if that part of the plan backfires, you still get a pretty good documentary out of the whole deal.
brokenSoldier,
thank you very much for the assistance you provided me earlier with evaluating the feasibility of a pilot program to provide massage for vets with PTSD and TBI (traumatic brain injury).
Because you helped me with organizing the ideas and assessing the need, I now have a basis for trying to get something started in the Seattle area with logistics, funding, etc.
I hope that soon I will have some news for you about preliminary results, and I hope that it will make a real difference to the people it will serve. If this does succeed to any degree, it will owe a great deal of that success to you, who assisted in its initial stages. I will keep you informed of its progress.
To the degree that I can get the word out about the larger situation with vets and medical care, I will do so as well, but I don't have the pulpit needed for major penetration. But I think in the course of starting up a program like this, it is a natural topic, and will come up in discussion a lot. So I can't predict if it will get traction, but I will do my best to do so.
To that end, I will also put it on my blog for my reader to see :).
And Molly, I think that the idea of a Manhattan Project for head wounds is a great one! The improvements in battlefield medicine over the last few decades mean that a lot of people who would have died in earlier wars are now surviving with TBI and spinal cord injuries, with lifelong sequelae.
I wish this society cared as much about taking care of the sick and wounded, and about keeping promises/contracts, as it does about developing weapons.
Brokensoldier,
Just wanted to add my voice to the chorus of those who want to thank you for your service and tell you that while I'm not surprised to hear your story, I am deeply saddened. I was lucky enough to have made it through my short four year service pretty much healthy, never saw combat. I can only try to imagine what you've been through, and then to have to deal with this. That, and do some letter writing, which I will do.
I was wondering, have you considered talking to Veterans for Peace? You may not agree with them ideologically, but they may be interested in taking your story to the streets. Just a thought.
Also, I've read your comments here before many times before, and always always enjoyed them. Best to ya.
Thanks PZ for putting this out there.
BrokenSoldier #156
I stand corrected. It is sometimes diffucult to get the full gist of story from a brief account and apparently disability ratings while still in the service is a whole different process.
For most veterans who aren't injured on the job (not counting desk inflicted head wounds) the VA disability process is rather funny; you spent your whole career not playing up any injuries to stay in the service but as soon as you retired everything is broken - until you get that VA rating then you're back to downplaying everything so you can get a job.
Must.Not.Make.Tasteless.Joke.
thank you, True Bob, for reminding me once again of the need to proofread :)
As a disabled vet myself (Vietnam), I have a pretty good idea what BrokenSoldier is going through. The VA has ever been no more than a political volleyball as far as the disabled are concerned. The politicians in power bounce it around to suit the whims of their supporters, and we get left in the dust. And today, it's worse than ever.
Having just got here, I haven't read many of the replies, so this suggestion might have already been made, but contacting the Disabled American Veterans might help.
doov
Is it too late to create a crime of constructive denial of legal rights to veteran's services? Say, a ten-year felony for the policy makers?
BrokenSoldier,
It breaks my heart to hear your story and to know that it is one of many. To think that these scumbag republicans could not stand up and do everything in their power to honestly support the soldiers that fought their war is just unbelievable.
And when we stop to think that billions, literally billions of dollars have been wasted, disappeared, and taken via fraud it is almost too much to take.
I am emailing my two senators now and will attach your story. I wish I could do more. Actually, I can, I will also make a donation to Disabled American Veterans.
You and your fellow soldiers have my utmost respect and thanks for your bravery and service to our broken country.
Good luck with this, hang in there please!
Just a quick note on Disabled American Veterans, CharityNavigator rates them as a top quality charity so you can feel good that any donations you make there will be used wisely.
CharityNavigator - DAV
Being canadian there's not much I can do for you buddy, but hang in there. The US is shaming itself since all of this began. It's terrible.
I dunno if our soldier are being treated as bad. I hope not.
Yes, it's too late. No ex post facto laws allowed here. Now professional misconduct, civil suits, those might be avenues for the retribution-minded.
Broken Soldier, I too want to express my gratitude for your service and my outrage at your mistreatment by the government. I have written to my State Representatives, juxtaposing your experience with the disgusting example of funding priorities I saw in last week's WaPo:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/17/AR20080…
For what it's worth, you now have Oregonians on your team. Keep us posted.
You could try posting on Wikinews, they would probably be happy to pick up the story.
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Main_Page
The problems of claim processing facing Iraqi and Afghan Vets has been around a long time. Nothing was fixed concerning the claim process combat Vietnam Veterans suffered from after and during that war. The DAV , VFW, and American Legion has had little impact on making the military and VA claims process smoother for the returning combat veteran. Another problem facing returning combat veterans Veteran Service Officers think of winning a good service rating disability payment for the vet similar to winning the lottery not something deserved by the combat veteran.
The problems of claim processing facing Iraqi and Afghan Vets has been around a long time. Nothing was fixed concerning the claim process combat Vietnam Veterans suffered from after and during that war. The DAV , VFW, and American Legion has had little impact on making the military and VA claims process smoother for the returning combat veteran. Another problem facing returning combat veterans Veteran Service Officers think of winning a good service rating disability payment for the vet similar to winning the lottery not something deserved by the combat veteran.
Can't do much on the journalism front, but I posted a link to this on my own blog. The more people who read about this the better.
The problems of claim processing facing Iraqi and Afghan Vets has been around a long time. Nothing was fixed concerning the claim process combat Vietnam Veterans suffered from after and during that war. The DAV , VFW, and American Legion has had little impact on making the military and VA claims process smoother for the returning combat veteran. Another problem facing returning combat veterans Veteran Service Officers think of winning a good service rating disability payment for the vet similar to winning the lottery not something deserved by the combat veteran.
BrokenSoldier:
As a military spouse, I can certainly sympathize with your story. I just wish you the best as you go down these roads as you certainly did not wish for this nor do you deserve this. I've seen too many friends give up on the rightly earned benefits because they were just too tired of fighting. Good luck and I am writing my congressmen as to this. I've just seen too many good men and women in this same situation.
I'm also sorry that you had to deal with the vitriol which has occurred on this thread. I have never had a problem with your commentary and always found it thought-provoking. I appreciate all that you've done and the fight you are continuing to fight to ensure those promises which were made shall be fulfilled.
I simply want to say thank you again and good luck
@ intelekshual- I will grant you that "to kill or be killed for unjust purposes" is not how anyone (that I've known, at least) thinks of military service. Yet, that *is* what they are being asked to do. I honestly can't grok why anyone would join the military.
I mean no disrespect, and I truly deeply appreciate the spirit of anyone willing to sacrifice so much on the behalf of this country... but, why isn't it obvious that going into the military (at least as it currently exists) means being asked to kill or be killed for unjust purposes? Most of my close friends who signed on knew that that's exactly what I thought of the job description. Yet they joined anyway. I admire the courage of their conviction... but I do believe they were deluding themselves.
I know anything remotely critical of service men and women, particularly in this context, may seem hyper-insensitive, and I'm sorry for that. Brokensoldier's story truly moves me. But so does the plight of Iraqis.
Is there any good way to tell the people who have noble visions of defending truth, justice, and the American Way that what they are doing is murder? Is there any good way to intelligently, and respectfully tell brokensoldier that, even though I know he's personally helped some Iraqis, I still think we've done net damage?
Perhaps more productively, is there any good way to honor brokensoldier's sacrifice while doing everything I can to prevent young men and women from ever joining in the first place?
@Anne Nonymous- I understand where you're coming from. I can handle "respect and gratitude" (and J seems like a jerk). But you say, "it's not the fault of the vast majority of soldiers"... I'm not so sure.
"He's the Universal Soldier and he really is to blame."
It is their fault. And it's our fault. And it's (most especially ) Bush et al.'s fault. But as trite as it might sound, if Bush had been marching on his own (literally) we wouldn't be in this mess. I think mandrake put it well.
On another note, what happened to brokensoldier does not shock me. Horrify , yes, but shock? Well, there's no surprise here. It's certainly not a problem limited to the military, either.
If we can use this as a hideous example of what is wrong with healthcare focused on saving money instead of saving people, I passionately want to help. If we decide that it is simply intolerable for Veterans (but not others) to be treated this way, well I'm uncomfortable with that.
I mean, the government does absolutely owe it to Vets, and I'd be happy to pay more taxes to get them what they need... but I'd be a hell of a lot happier if the taxes I paid that are going to keep them there, getting hurt, were redirected.
Important to remember that while the Iraq war is a mistake, it was not the soldier's mistake, and it's shameful to treat them in such a shoddy manner.
Becca,
"If we can use this as a hideous example of what is wrong with healthcare focused on saving money instead of saving people, I passionately want to help. If we decide that it is simply intolerable for Veterans (but not others) to be treated this way, well I'm uncomfortable with that. "
While I agree that we need universal healthcare - GOOD universal healthcare... this thread and BrokenSoldiers story have nothing to do with that.
This is, at it's root, about a contract. When you join the service you sign a contract. That contract says you will follow legal orders and do your best to be a good soldier knowing that injury or even death may occur during your service. The contract also says that the government, in return for this service, will take care of you should you get injured while keeping up your end of the deal. That contract is being broken here. The government is doing everything it can to avoid paying out on disability and retirement - in violation of the contract it made with it's serviceman.
Whether or not someone is deluded about the job going into the military has no bearing on whether or not the government should live up to it's end of the contract with it's service members.
Daily Kos has at least two links to Broken Soldier today, July 23, 2008.
http://www.dailykos.com/
@ Becca #181
It is a given that when one joins the military it means potentially being asked to kill or be killed. But you can't just put "for unjust purposes" in there and apply that blanket. Many people enlisted after 9/11, would you call that an unjust cause? I wouldn't. Do you think Afghanistan was unjust? I don't.
Sure, now everyone should know that Iraq was unjust, and yes, some knew at the time and were screaming about it, but you have to remember that the media were not reporting it as much as they should lest they appear un-American. Many Americans missed that message. But then many Americans still think Saddam Hussein helped Al Qaeda, WMDs were found in Iraq, and that Iraq was building nuclear weapons.
There was no way for anyone who enlisted prior to Bush that they would be used in this way. Now maybe they'd have little excuse, but you know that recruiting has dropped precipitously and they've had to lower the standards in order to bring the numbers up - right?
There is plenty of blame to go around, but that has little to do with Broken Soldier's problems getting the disability pay he is owed.
Important to remember that while the Iraq war is a mistake, it was not the soldier's mistake, and it's shameful to treat them in such a shoddy manner.
The war was not a "mistake", it was a war crime equivalent to the one Hermann Goering was hanged for. Otherwise I agree with the rest of the statement.
For anyone unfaniliar with the Bonus Army:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xkmo4ygPTjc&feature=related
Since when is calling everybody and his dog a "radical leftist, bordering to a Communist" a criticism of political correctness? You claim to fight against an imaginary leftist hegemony, and this strawman is typical for right-wingers.
Yes, and I'm right. On this blog I am labelled a hardcore right-winger and brutally flamed for merely drawing attention to the evil of Islam or defending Americans from grossly illiberal blanket statements. If those few (thoroughly sensible) opinions are sufficient to make me a right-winger in the mind of you and your cronies, I have no choice but to consider you an extremist.
Beside this, what you call "Communism" is probably Stalinism, and getting called a Stalinist is an insult for most leftists, leave alone liberals.
No, I'm thinking more along the lines of Marxism, which is notoriously popular among biologists, and which seems to very closely resemble the political philosophy of many individuals here.
Communism is far broader than Stalinism (which many argue wasn't communism at all).
"The war was not a "mistake", it was a war crime equivalent to the one Hermann Goering was hanged for. Otherwise I agree with the rest of the statement."
I am going to be a pedant and point out Goering was not hanged. He was sentenced to hang, but killed himself the evening before he was due to be executed by taking potassium cyanide.
There were German political and military leaders who did get hanged though.
Yeah, I accept the correction. Should have said he was sentenced to hang.
I really can't understand the logic of blaming soldiers that some people here are espousing in one form or another. The soldier's job is not to set policy, it's not to follow their own personal views, but to follow the orders given by their civilian commanders. This is for everyone's good - countries where the military does what it wants generally end up very badly. If you're going to allow soldiers to not go to war when they don't feel like it, you're inadvertently also allowing to go to war when they want to against who they want to. Personally I find the emphasis the military places on remaining non-political probably the most admirable thing about them, and this recent ring-wing proselytizing rather alarming.
Even as a pacifist, if you are infact serious about that position, rather than an idiot who's only interested in beating their own chest, you should easily realize that pacifism won't happen because everyone refuses to go into the military, but because as a country we come to a consensus that a military is no longer necessary. My personal view is that that is a goal that is both desirable and maybe achievable in the very long term, but probably not through unilateral disarmament but rather the creation of global alliances like the UN.
Anyways I suppose it's mostly the idiot J, who cannot even draw the trivial connection between his own "zomg Islamists are teh evilz and we are sooo much better then them" and all the politicians capitalizing on this fear-mongering and tribalism for support for their wars. Yeah right J, a bunch of people running around claiming that every muslim is the spawn of the devil who is gonna come over tomorrow and babies hasn't got a thing to do with these wars does it? Right.
Anyways, good luck brokensoldier, hopefully something can be done to make this administration and government actually work for a change.
This broken, frightened man had once been the embodiment of American might and compassion. If the military couldn't save him, Knapp thought, what hope was there for the thousands suffering in anonymity?
J,
Most of the soldiers I know joined the military for one of two (possibly both) reasons.
1) They truly want to serve their country and feel a strong calling to join the military to defend the freedoms most of us take for granted. It is irrelevant that our civilian leadership does not seem to use our military in this manner. During the lead up to the Iraq War, experienced military members told the administration that it was a bad idea from a strategic standpoint and they were silenced. The civilian administration then proceeded to convince a huge portion of the American people that we were fighting this war to protect our freedom. Don't blame the military for the crimes of the civilian leadership.
2) Many people join the military for economic reasons. The military offers a steady paycheck, health care, pensions (if you stay in long enough), aid for college when you get out. I refuse to fault someone for joining the military for this because it makes perfect sense for many people, who have no other resources to join the military to try for a better life. Our soldiers, marines, airmen and sailors know they are risking their lives, but they do it. You can sit in the safety of your home and attack soldiers because of the soldiers' sacrifices.
You're a complete ass. For the record, I am against the Iraq War and have been since Bush, Inc. started the first drumbeats. However, blaming soldiers who have absolutely no control over where or when they will be sent to fight is a ridiculous and dishonest tool.
Though, of course, you do have the right to say whatever you want. Our military has guarantees this for you when they take their oath to defend our Constitution.
"See you all at a Mensa meeting. Then again, I doubt it."
What's that if not an insult.
Obviously our tiny brains can't match your colossal intellect. I bow to your superior debating skills.
I have never insulted another poster on this blog, or any other blog. Until now.
Sorry about that last post - wrong thread.
typo in #194 that last line "has guarantees" should just be "guarantees"
Oops
protocol, #186:
The Iraq war death toll is so far approximately 1.5 - 2.0 million. The European WWII death toll was in the tens of millions (all sides included), with approximately 6 million Jews murdered in Nazi genocidal efforts. The sectarian conflicts, while having strong overtones of attempted genocide, do not have anything like the organization and dedication of the Nazi efforts. At this time, while the invasion of Iraq is certainly one of the more terrible war crimes committed in the last 30 years, it (so far) falls far short of Nazi atrocities.
If anything, Broken Soldier is UNDERSTATING the problems that wounded soldiers face on separation. Broken Soldier, I wish I had the voice to get your message out.
(... and yet I can't stop thinking about re-enlisting. I must be crazy.)
I had to go to my congressman to deal with the Navy and VA. Mine wasn't a wartime injury (drunk driver) but the Navy was delaying endlessly at providing the VA with my records. My Congressman fired off a letter and 3 days later the records were in the VA's hands. I also got a nice letter from the Navy bitching about the Congressman telling them to do their jobs. Good luck man.
Posted by: Dr. Dredd | July 23, 2008 9:28 AM
That's certainly been my experience with you guys - the VA docs I've dealt with have gone above and beyond with what little they have been given to work with, and that is much more than I can say for most doctors still in the greens. Thanks for the support, and keep up the good work, doc.
Want to add one more thing regarding disability ratings. There may be different rating critira for combat/non-combat disability. In my case the disability is directly related to my ability to employed and social function. So if my disability caused a problem with relationships it would be higher. The same if it limited my job options. As I said this is how mine is determined and it was an idiot (2 actually, the drunk driver and Bill Clinton) not combat.
Shorter Molly, NYC:
Don't ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence.
True Bob - Not exactly; I'm suggesting that even if the people at the VA are competent and responsible (and many are--remember during the Clinton Administration when the Rs thought it would be cute to stop paying federal employees? VA hospital employees still came to work--for free--rather than desert their patients), they still have to work with antiquated equipment, infrastructure and systems, and a thieving administration that doesn't respect their work, or their clients, and expects it all to run by itself.
You're right, of course, about the contemptibility of privatizing core government functions. The fact that this administration is so enamored with it attests to the degree to which they've replaced sense with ideology.
Molly, thanks. I meant the administration pukes, not so much the federales (most of them are really good folks, but I'm biased as I are one).
The Iraq war death toll is so far approximately 1.5 - 2.0 million. The European WWII death toll was in the tens of millions (all sides included), with approximately 6 million Jews murdered in Nazi genocidal efforts. The sectarian conflicts, while having strong overtones of attempted genocide, do not have anything like the organization and dedication of the Nazi efforts. At this time, while the invasion of Iraq is certainly one of the more terrible war crimes committed in the last 30 years, it (so far) falls far short of Nazi atrocities.
The crime is the same, though the magnitude is different. Especially since the Nazis were prosecuted at Nuremberg for the crime of "aggression" and not for any particular acts (the crime of aggression includes everything that follows; in the Iraq case, civil war would be an example). So the analogy stands. But you are right about the magnitude, but the latter is not directly relevant to the basic crime.
PygmyLoris:
1) What the civilian leadership does is highly relevant, because a person can look at the trajectory of the use of military force over the past several decades to see whether it's likely they'll be defending the Constitution, under the rule of the civilian leadership.
2) So they partake in unjust wars for profit, not just for recreation?
"Though, of course, you do have the right to say whatever you want. Our military has guarantees this for you when they take their oath to defend our Constitution."
What is the last thing the military has done, that had they not done it, we would no longer have the right to free speech?
"When is the last time you saw a job description in the civilian world that listed screen lines, movements to contact, armed convoy escort, or counter-mortar patrols as recommended experience?"
School teacher in Northern Ireland in the 80-90s ? Or these days in Manchester UK? They probably aren't actually on the list but as I understand it, they ought to be.
Leland,
1) What the civilian leadership does is highly relevant, because a person can look at the trajectory of the use of military force over the past several decades to see whether it's likely they'll be defending the Constitution, under the rule of the civilian leadership.
You know, here's the thing: You may think that's obvious. Hell, I may even think that's obvious, but many people don't. When I was in high school I considered joining the military to serve my country. That was the explicit reason I wanted to join. However, I decided (among other reasons) that I couldn't kill people because I was ordered to. I did sincerely believe that serving in the military meant defending our citizens and our way of life.
2) So they partake in unjust wars for profit, not just for recreation?
That's so insulting that I'm almost unable to respond, but I'm rarely at a loss for words, so here goes: You apparently have no idea the difference between survival and profit. Young men and women are not "profitting" from the military. They're making an adequate living. For many people, there are no other options. They can't afford college, they don't have access to transportation for a regular job, they have few job skills, etc. so they join the military. Dire poverty is very difficult to escape and the military offers one of the more reasonable ways out.
As for your statement:
What is the last thing the military has done, that had they not done it, we would no longer have the right to free speech?
I would argue that right now we have the world's largest military and that is the best guarantee of our freedoms I can think of. Of course, had we not invaded and then launched a long-term occupation of a foreign nation, the public may not have been motivated to the extent they currently are and, hypothetically, Bush, Inc. would have repealed even more freedoms than they already have.
You and J are making me sick. As I've stated before, attacking the regular low-level military members for the actions of the civilian leadership is stupid. You're probably the type of person who yells at Wal-Mart cashiers over the corporate return policy too.
Leland,
One other thing on the military, as as pointed out earlier, many of the men and women serving today enlisted after 9-11 when we, as a nation, were attacked. That is a very good reason, from my perspective, to join the military.
Pygmy Loris: I would argue that right now we have the world's largest military and that is the best guarantee of our freedoms I can think of.
That is just wrong. It is the greatest danger to our freedoms that I can think of. The greatest threat to freedom is not the outside enemy (even though they are real), but the internal centralization of power. A powerful military induces that, through procurement contracts and imperial designs.
A military a tenth as powerful as we have can defend us from all comers --- it just can't be used as a tool for empire.
frog,
I agree that we don't need a military as large as the one we have. I was just being a little facetious with that comment. However, our military should be protecting us from the "internal centralization of power" because of the required oaths, the oath to defend the Constitution supercedes the oath to the Commander in Chief.
Again, the use of our military as a "tool for empire" is a product of the civilian leadership and their friends who hunger for greater profits and more power. I, of course, lay the blame for this squarely at the feet of Bush, Inc.
The main problem with the military industrial complex today is that the civilian leadership apparently takes their oath to defend the Constitution as an unimportant frivolity and believes that enriching their friends is more important than responsibly appropriating government funds (taxes).
Of course that's just my opinion and you're free to disagree.
Pygmy: However, our military should be protecting us from the "internal centralization of power" because of the required oaths, the oath to defend the Constitution supercedes the oath to the Commander in Chief.
Again, the use of our military as a "tool for empire" is a product of the civilian leadership and their friends who hunger for greater profits and more power. I, of course, lay the blame for this squarely at the feet of Bush, Inc.
You place too much emphasis on formal structures. Of course, the obvious blame goes first to the civilian leadership, then to the military leadership; the formal power structure has to be taken into account. The folks at the bottom of any system have little responsibility because they have little power.
But the real blame has to lie on our constitution. It's out-dated, and has been implicitly re-written. The presidency has too much power because what was relegated to the President in 1789 was control of a tiny bureaucracy -- which has ballooned. The folks of 1789 couldn't write a constitution of 2008 --- their job was to write one for 1789.
The clause requiring that all military funding be on a biennial cycle has been stripped of meaning; the second amendments guarantee that the military would be decentralized along state lines has been eviscerated.
Don't depend on oaths -- depend on relationships. The relationships have been destroyed, the states reduced to mere provinces, the Presidency has ballooned (see the princeps in Rome), the major part of our government -- the bureacracy -- has become an independent entity without sufficient oversight by democratic mechanisms. All these things have been happening since the Civil War (and before) -- we can see the end result of pretending that you don't have to update your constitutional mechanism every 3 generations.
forg,
You're right about the state of Constitutional interpretation in this country, but I don't think a new constitution is the solution. Right now, we have a Bill of Rights and some of the ammendments are a little difficult to reinterpret to fit the power hungry desires of the neo-cons and Christian Right. However, I'm afraid of the people in power now. I think a new Constitution would make us a Christian nation and rescind many of the rights we take for granted. I mean, the hard-right seems to believe in the Unitary Executive crap that has no basis in the Constitution and that the Framers would have most definitely opposed, but they've managed to put several people on the Supreme Court who believe this is what the Constitution says. Really, we're at a sort of impasse as a country. The people currently in power are willing to do anything to stay there and it's simply not safe for the population to have a Constitutional Convention while these people still have significant power.
Again, the use of our military as a "tool for empire" is a product of the civilian leadership and their friends who hunger for greater profits and more power. I, of course, lay the blame for this squarely at the feet of Bush, Inc.
That won't do, because it didn't start with them; although they have taken US imperialism further than their predecessors, they by no means invented it. In fact, it's been a pretty consistent theme ever since the War of Independence. Not that the US is unusual in that - just unusually successful.
Nick,
I realize that imperialism in the US didn't start with Bush, Inc., but the current zeal for military intervention for corporate, economic interests is a product of the neo-con reaction to the post-Cold War climate. We built this huge military during the Cold War, and the neocons justify keeping it around by finding mercenary interests they can use our military to protect. It's all horribly depressing, especially when I think about all the military members I know who can't see that this is what has happened.
Now THERE'S a thought!
I haven't read all the comments closely I've gotten busier and you lot type a lot... but has anyone suggested that the Vet associations team up and hammer them for breach of contract? I've never liked that America is a litigious culture, but hey, when in Rome right? And it's not like you spilt coffee on your nuts and suing them for your incompetence, they are the ones failing to live up to verbal or written contracts. Probably both.
You want to make a loud noise? Civil litigation of a big enough scale should be heard right in their pocket-book.
It happens on a daily basis. Military members sign contracts in which the military promises specific training or assignments. If the military doesn't give the training or assignment, the member can request to get out of the contract.
In a similar way, a veteran can sue for breach of contract. However, and this is a big however, if the military is making a "good faith effort" (GFE) to fulfill the contract, then the lawsuit goes nowhere. Since the GFE essentially means that the military is following its own regulations. These are often written in such broad terms that anything can be considered GFE. Catch-22 is not as far fetched as you might think.
Since I'm sitting in Europe, there isn't much I can do, but I still want to express my deepest sympathies to you, BrokenSoldier. I suffer from migraines and anxiety disorder myself, and know how crippling they can be. And also how callous and uninformed some people, even those in the medical profession, sometimes treat you - "oh, so you have headaches?".
Shame on the American government for trying to weasel out of their responsibility to you!
> If those few (thoroughly sensible) opinions are
> sufficient to make me a right-winger in the mind
> of you and your cronies, I have no choice but to
> consider you an extremist.
My cronies, LOL! Where I come from, interactions between Marxists and antiimps ususally are done by baseball bat.
I would even agree with you that some of the chomskyite stuff makes little sence. Blaming two or three nations (the US, Israel, perhaps Britain) for the idiosyncrasies and evils of capitalism, or for the fact that the world economy is organised according to the principle of value, or for the fact that primary acquisition is usually a dirty process, is probably a projection, and perhaps even a pathological projection. You might as well blame Iceland for continental drift.
But I actually consider antiamericanism - and antizionism - fetishistic delusions BECAUSE I am what you call an "extremist", or a Marxist, not in spite of it.
The same holds true for Djihadism - wich you constantly confuse with Islam. I positively hate it. It's misogynic, antisemitic, homophobic, racist in practise (if not always in theory) and autoritarian. It also is, if we look at Dafur, and at the ongoing civil war in Iraq, genocidal. But simply saying that Muslims are evil is not a valid analysis of Djihadism. Beside this, while you bemoan the dangers of Islamism, how do you want to cope with them, if you call all soldiers that actually fight against it murderers and fools? Hypocrite!
> Marxism, which is notoriously popular among biologists,
Please, tell me you don't mean this time honoured "cladistics are marxist" meme?! I always thought that poor old thing was taken behind the barn and shot in 1986 or so!
I was very surprised to read that McSame has a 100% disability from the USN. He collects over $58k/year (tax free) for it. But he obviously is a poseur, milking the system. He brags about hiking the Grand Canyon, FFS. He HAS a current JOB. He can travel the world, unrestricted by his "diabilities". beside the point, he has no actual "need" since he married a Sugar Mama. That $58k probably barely covers maid service for one of their (what, 8, 9) estates. McSame cares about veteran, not veterans.
Fuming at the injustice.
I'm no fan of McCain, but I wouldn't touch his disability. Who you have married has nothing to do with weather or not the payment is deserved. It's also been pointed out that your disability status has nothing to do with your ability to hold a job. Besides that, he is unable to lift his arms above his shoulders and I think he has other lingering injuries.
Now, from a moral standpoint one could argue that he should refuse the money because he doesn't need it, but it is not as if by him refusing someone else would magically start getting paid. I suppose he could donate it to the VA, but I'm not willing to judge him for that.
Posted by: Tom | July 24, 2008 11:49 AM
If he were simply another citizen, I would have no disagreement with your point. Because, however, he is a citizen running for the highest office in a country that is constantly refusing the claims of his fellow veterans - veterans that need that money far more than he does - he puts the obligation upon himself to make sure that he is not viewed to be spitting in our faces while patting us on the back at the same time.
He is a Senator, married to a multi-millionaire, rides around Arizona and the entire country in jets and limousines, enjoys some of the best health care this country can offer, has multiple ridiculously valuable estates in which to live, and never wonders where his next meal will come from. If he wants to lead this country, I'd suggest he show a little bit more concern for his fellow veterans within it that do not enjoy such luxury and security.
Frankly, I couldn't care less whether or not his disability money would go directly to another veteran. When you have as much money as he and his family does, he could certainly afford to do as the military (well, at least the Army - I don't have any experience in any othe branch) teaches its leaders to do - which is lead by example. Yes, he has a right to that money. But no, he definitely does not have to undergo the same amount of scrutiny the rest of us endure. He enjoys special treatment, and that is simply the way of the world - I am not under any delusions that it will change anytime soon. But if he wants to become the leader of the coutnry, I'd suggest he show a bit more tangible concern for his own fellow veterans, much less the rest of the country's citizens.
Like I've said before, he can say he supports us, but his record of action does not bear out his claim.
Hi,
I'm Jim (a/k/a The Broken Soldier). BrokenSoldier and I have similar experiences. I broke my back on active duty - my career held hostage by an interim 'rear det' commander who coerced me to attend training not required by regulation or the terms of my Officer Candidate School contract.
The attending doc, a DO, punched my symptoms into WebMD. WebMD spit out a list of possible diagnoses. The doc went with the least severe, pulled muscles, and sent me back to the field portion of training.
A year and a half, a partially paralyzed right leg and foot, and a serious bout of depression and financial ruination later, I'm just now receiving treatment. And the Army did not treat me out of a sense of duty or out of the goodness of their hearts. They did so by (real) threat of writ of mandate in federal court, naming the Sec of Army and the commander of Ireland Community Hospital (Fort Knox, KY) as top co-defendants.
Technically I'm still in. I don't see how they can keep me, as it will be impossible to satisfy the terms of my contract, but stranger things have happened. If a rule can be bent to keep me, especially if keeping me allows the government to deny compensation and continued medical care, I'm sure they'll find a way.
I still can't believe this happened to me. I was one of those who doubted others who complained about the system. I had no reason, from previous experience on active duty working at a large military hospital, to believe the critics. Now I'm a believer.
-Jimison
Posted by: Jimison | July 24, 2008 11:09 PM
The Army definitely plays upon such doubts - I don't know how many times during my ten years of service that I heard the term "profile ranger" (derogatory term for a soldier who is always hurt and always has a physical profile excusing him/ her from physical training) tagged on anyone who went to sick call and received such a profile. There are definitely soldiers who abuse the system to get out of having to actually work, but there was a huge stigma placed upon anyone who went to the medic, whether they were one of those abusers or not. "Suck it up and drive on" is a common mantra in the Army, but what they don't tell you is that if you're hurt and fail to get it documented, when you do finally leave the service and try to get compensation for an injury, if you don't have it documented in your file (i.e., the profile showing you had it), you're just shit out of luck.
I know too many soldiers who "sucked it up" and "drove on," only to realize too late that doing so was, in effect, giving the military the ammunition they needed to deny their claims.
I get your point. It's just that I already think McCain is a dickhead, so this doesn't lower my opinion of him.
Broken,
I hear ya. I tried, as directed, to stick it out, but when my leg stopped moving I figured it was high time to seek help (though of course I didn't get it).
I know folks in far worse of a fix than my wife and I. People who'll die from the poor medical care they received while on active duty. Something must be done. Something more than the flash in the pan attention media paid to Walter Reed. Laws need changing. The military needs intense, constant government oversight, as it clearly can't manage itself.
If you, or others you know, would like to participate in a press conference re: military medicine, compensation for LoD injuries, etc., shoot me an email.
Take care brother.
Jimison
UPDATE:
As of this coming Monday, the paperwork screwup on the Army's part should be sorted out, so my medical coverage should be coming back online very soon. With that hurdle hopefully cleared, I have to start the next stage of the process beginning with my disability claim with the VA, which should be fun...The fight for me is far from over, but due to you all, it may very well turn out to be a much easier one from here on.
I have been truly humbled by the amount of help you have offered, and I hope to work with all of you who have done so in order to make sure that we get this problem out into the open. If we can do this, maybe veterans will have a little easier time of it. I'm in debt to all of you who have expressed your support, and if any of you should ever need anything in the future, you can be sure that I'm at your disposal. I'll return the favor in any way that I possibly can, and you guys know where to find me - just drop by my blog and leave me a comment if there is ever anything you need.
And to Dr. Myers, I truly can't thank you enough for using your forum to help me and my fellow vets in our situation.
I printed the post and sent it to my two Senators and my local Representative with my own cover letter. All three of them vote correctly on veteran matters, but a little nag never hurt.
BrokenSoldier, I read your message of thanks at your own blog. Our appreciation for you and all those who go out to defend our country can never be repeated enough.
Not praying, but trying to convey healing thoughts for you.
Pygmy Loris@214,
Yes, I agree with that.
BrokenSoldier,
All the best, I hope the worst is behind you!
Posted by: Nick Gotts | July 26, 2008 1:41 PM
Thanks, Nick. And though I can never really be certain that the worst (concerning this specific situation) does not still lay ahead, what I am quite certain of is that the best lays there as well.
I posted brokenSoldier's piece on my personal blog, and linked back here. I'd like to post one comment I received there:
The commenter also said he'd send suggestions to the email address linked at the bottom of the OP.
Hello! I am very surprised and yet not surprised at the same time to find that this story is almost exactly that of my fiances except we are still going through the process of finding out what he is eligible/ineligible for. He was hit with IEDs 12 times, suffered 3 concussions, has severe TBI, and migraines almost everyday. They are trying to say he is "fine" and that TBI is not a legitimate reason to medically retire him from the military. He cannot do any daily activities besides go to doctors appointments, he gets a severe migraine and has to lay in bed. They are trying to send him back to his unit soon (which just got back from Iraq for the second time). We have been approved for social securtity, but they are saying he is only 10% disabled. I'm still in college. He has a 5 year old daughter and himself to take care of. There is no way he can get a job anytime soon and if they try to send him back to Iraq and he gets hit again he will be medically retarded.How are we supposed to survive? We have to fight this.
Posted by: Alli Stong | August 1, 2008 5:16 PM
The sad fact - one that I had trouble accepting, considering that I joined and still love - in some part - the Army, is that they just don't give a damn about anything other than their financial bottom line.
brokenSoldier,
I just saw your update from 25 July. Very good news. Smooth sailing,
SC
Thanks, SC. It's been hectic getting started with the VA, and one admittedly minor, but still bothersome, side effect is that I haven't been able to spend the time required to contribute to the discussions here. I miss it, but I'm sure I'll be able to get back to it soon.
I miss it, but I'm sure I'll be able to get back to it soon.
It misses you, too! :) Hope to see more of you soon. Take care.
Holy smokes! I emailed my favorite Senator (Webb, VA) when this was current, and today (!) I got a response. Who says the wheels turn slowly?