Some of the politicians in the benighted state of Florida want to sell a new license plate.
The Florida Legislature may create a new license plate that features the words ''I Believe'' and the image of a cross in front of a church stained glass window. The measure is moving in both the House and Senate.
Rep. Ed Bullard, a Miami Democrat and a sponsor of the license plate, conceded that ''some people'' may find something wrong with it, but he said it was a license plate for those people who may want something other than a plate that has a manatee or picture of the Challenger space shuttle.
Look at it this way: the stupid people in Florida are going to be conveniently self-labeling themselves with the Mark of the Buffoon.
(And seriously, this is OK with me. They're going to be charging people an extra $25 for the privilege of sticking something so silly on their car; consider it another dumb tax.)
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"I believe I can fly..."
If I were a member of the Florida legislature, I would probably vote against it on the grounds that it's tacky and tasteless.
Anyway, would the Cubans in Miami be willing to buy it? There's no Jesus on the cross and Catholics prefer crucifixes. (And that, by the way, is a reminder of the great argument in favor of capital punishment: If Jesus had gotten life without benefit of parole, we would never have been redeemed [and he'd still be in prison, soaking up tax dollars!].)
Last paragraph: "The extra money earned from the sale of the ''I Believe'' license plate would go to an Orlando based non profit called Faith in Teaching Inc. that says on its website that money from the plates would be used for grants to ``continue faith based education for the youth of Florida.''"
The three screes of bent metal you just heard were the prongs of the Lemon test.
I always say that people who play the state lotteries are just paying their stupidity tax.
I wonder if we could get them to do a Flying Spaghetti Monster one? I'd pay money for a Church of the SubGenius™ license plate.
It's better than Indiana. It gave people the option of getting an "In God We Trust" license plate for free. The ACLU is suing over the violation of church/state violation, but I don't know how long it'll be until they start charging. What's funny is that anyone with this license plate is nearly always a bad driver, so it's a nice way to identify the road menaces and get away from them.
"another dumb tax" or a tax on the dumb?
And ignore the latter violation in my previous comment, I have a history paper on my brain.
Off topic: Science is satan spelled backwards
I thought bumper stickers were invented to show everyone stuff they don't care about, do they really need it on the license too?
It would actually be a really cool study to see whether those with these license plates drive significantly differently from other similarly self-identified groups.
If the money went into state coffers, it would be one thing. But it appears that the extra money would be going to a religious cause. The state can not collect money for a religious organization.
This thing has "photoshop contest" written all over it.
At least that's how I interpret "SAMPL."
Rep. Ed Bullard, a Miami Democrat and a sponsor of the license plate, conceded that ''some people'' may find something wrong with it, but he said it was a license plate for those people who may want something other than a plate that has a manatee or picture of the Challenger space shuttle.
Yeah, that whole non-establishment of religion in the Constitution thing is just such a fucking annoyance.
I really do like reading PZ's stuff. And the comments are even more reassuring that there are smart, reasonable and rational people on this planet. I live in Texas and come here to breath. Some of us down here do actually try to stand up the the god bullies and frauds here in our state, for all that's worth. Some of us have been doing battle with the loons on newspaper web sites like gosanangelo.com and reporternews.com in San Angel and Abilene respectively, over stories and letters that have cropped up in the wake of the Mormon and House of Yahweh stench. Sometimes I think those two communities supply the major portion of the whackjobs that are attacking this state. I wish PZ would send his storm troopers into the battles on a few of these sites but until then, ya,ll keep the blogs and comments coming here. You write and think a lot better than this old fart so I come here for more than the fresh air. It helps me figure out better ways to say things so they'll count.
Except it's government issued, and I don't see them offering "I Believe" plates with symbols of all the other religions out there. And of course, no "Of course I don't believe, what, are you fucking kidding?!" one either.
Government of Florida lets you express your religious views on government-issued license plates, only if your religious views are of one pre-approved sort?
Of course its not good.
Close enough.
Will be funny to see what it does to resale value -- who'd want to buy a car with a plate like that on the back of it? Sure, you can switch plates at/after purchase of someone's car, but I'd better more than sales are lost because of what's on the plate as an indicator of how well the innards of the car were cared for.
I'd like to see how these representatives would react if the bill also offered a Darwin fish or scarlet letter plate, with the revenues going to the NCSE...
off topic, is it bad of me that while watching "The Mist" last night, I was glad when the rapture-sermonizing, sacrifice-wanting, insane religious nutbag lady got offed?
(Hey, she was dangerous, she was riling up the crowd, they had to do it.)
Whoops. Sorry, that was a spoiler, wasn't it?
@jimBOB: I'd rather fancy a Discordian plate myself. I don't think we Discordians could ever agree on a common design, though... ;)
What you guys probably don't know is that we in Florida already have a "Choose Life" optional license plate with a little-kid drawing on it. According to their FAQ, the extra cash one pays goes to organizations that support adoption, as long as they don't also support abortion.
This is wrong. A license plate and other government document, seal, IDs, etc. are not the place for political, philosophical, or religious views. If you want to express your opinions on your car, get a bumper sticker. If you really want to go for broke, get it in your paint job.
I'd pay for a plate with the Sacred Chao on it.
@knitterman- We keep our plates down here in Florida. The plates move with us from car to car. It's actually one of the positives of living here.
In Florida? Man, this is going to pay for a lot of social services.
Obviously you haven't spent much time in the Sunshine State.
It's routine down here for Christian(tm) realtors to tell prospective buyers that Jesus said he wants them to own this house.
If this piece o' dreck makes it to Fla DMV offices, expect to see bulk purchases from used car dealerships.
#4 - I'd pay for a FSM plate! Touched by His noodly Appendage...
"The measure is moving in both the House and Senate."
You'd think the House and Senate would have more important things to do.
Like Indiana, Alabama has free "God Bless America" plates for those who want them.
That's a pretty sneaky idea Florida has, though, using the proceeds to fund something unconstitutional. The only people who would have standing to sue would be the people who buy the plates, right? And obviously they aren't going to do so.
As a Floridian, I'd prefer a plate with positive message ... perhaps: "Science saves lives!" ;-)
Indiana has their "In God we Trust" plate because they are too stupid or cheap to have a decent driver training program. I don't think God has saved anyone there.
I live in Florida. This is dumb and I hope it doesn't go through. If it does at least get us non-believers one of equal value.
Can anyone photoshop the picture and replace "SAMPL" with "MORON"?
Even setting aside the issue of a state agency offering a religious-themed tag, it's clearly discriminatory to offer just one religious affiliation tag and not all the others. Florida has specialty plates for all the major universities and sports teams, not just one of them.
If it passes, I suppose the good news is that it'll be drowned out in the sea of over 100 different specialty plates that Florida offers. Here are just the top 20 most popular plates for 2007. Note that the "Choose Life" plate is #10, but it's behind mostly environmental and university plates:
University of Florida
Protect the Panther
Protect Wild Dolphins
Helping Sea Turtles Survive
Florida State University
Save the Manatee
Protect Our Reefs
U.S. Marine Corps
Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Choose Life
Challenger / Columbia
Support Education
University of Miami
State of the Arts
Save Our Seas
Conserve Wildlife
Golf Capital of the World
Salutes Veterans
Miami Dolphins
Indian River Lagoon
Source:
http://www.flhsmv.gov/specialtytags/tagsales2007.pdf
Will this still be a cool plate to have, if it turns out that it isn't even as popular as "Golf Capital of the World"?
Oklahoma offers well over 100 specialty plates, including almost 40 different ones with a NASCAR theme. But none of them is as explicitly religious as this Florida example. Oklahomans can certainly imply their religious leanings with something like this, or can send the "I'm a stoopid idiot" message pretty effectively with this (several bible colleges available too!), but still.
Congratulations Florida, on out-Oklahomaing Oklahoma!
@19:
Not at all. Fantastic atheist movie, by the way; somehow it slipped in under the radar while everyone was pissing and moaning about The Golden Compass. It demonstrated what we all suspect: that fundagelical Christianity is one disaster removed from volcano worship.
You should be allowed to get any graphic you want next to "Believe": the FSM, Ceiling Cat, a flaming pentagram-and-pitchfork, a UFO, the Superman logo...
My folks have one in HI with a little symbol and the words "Respect Choice". Proceeds went to Planned Parenthood, I think.
State funding for a faith-based organization should be able to be challenged in court by non-purchasers of this plate since state financial resources would be used in making the plate. Fortunately, I do not drive and do not live in the Dumbshine State of Florida.
Wouldn't it be so cool to get one of those license plates, then draw in a Loch Ness monster and a UFO?
I want my Flying Spaghetti Monster I believe license plate! Deny me, and I'll sue for my 1st Amendment rights!
I live in Indiana and this afternoon I was behind a pickup truck with an "In God We Trust" plate. Right next to the plate was a Darwin fish. It confused me in a good way.
There was also a USMC emblem in the left corner of the window. And the boy pissing on Chevy on the right.
What's a believer to do when their flag decal won't get them into heaven any more?
#33 -- re: Can anyone photoshop the picture and replace "SAMPL" with "MORON"?
I think you'll like this one better. Hope I got the URL right as it doesn't preview properly.
Nope, it buggered the link.
I'm going to assume PZ didn't read all the way to the bottom of the Miami Herald article, where one finds,
The use of the money for further religious indoctrination of youth can hardly be labelled a positive development. This is getting close to being a state collected tithe.
I want one of these license plates. I would choose the text "IN NO GOD" for mine.
In 2002, the Florida DMV rejected the personalized plate "ATHEIST" because it was "obscene or objectionable".
#33 -- re: Can anyone photoshop the picture and replace "SAMPL" with "MORON"?
http://www.baldurdash.org/FloridaLicensePlate.jpg
Better.
Not to rain on anyone's parade (namely my own) but the pro-choice plate is okay with the gov't because if those at the capitol choose to encourage "childbirth and family life" they can do so without also encouraging abortion, so long as they don't impede abortion.
As for the faith-based-plate, if the supreme court views it as a personal choice (amongst a myriad of other, more-deserving charities) as opposed to an endorsement of a particular sect or religion in general then it should be fine. The only monkey in the wrench here is that since other charity's have their plates, the "imaginary friend" plate could be seen as the state's endorsement of charitable donations as opposed to christianity etc...
If that is the case, I'd sue them. They would lose since "obscene or objectionable" is either:
1) loosely defined and thus non-enforcible
OR
2) preventing me from my 1st amendment right since what I chose for my plate is not obscene or objectionable by any standard legal definition of precedence.
Arizona lost a case recently dealing with this very exact same issue.
[Pic featuring Mickey Mouse on his epcot House]
I BELIEVE
Hey! An instant way to identify the stupid people.
Interviewing someone for a job that requires high intelligence? Just a quick trip to the parking lot...
They should do this in all fifty states.
Maybe they should've made it say "I knit."
"On the weekends."
#48
http://www.baldurdash.org/FloridaLicensePlate.jpg
Better.
You totally rock, dude!
As long as we can have an atheist lisence plate, I think I'll be ok with it.
Arizona lost a case recently dealing with this very exact same issue.
interesting.
got links?
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/9971/floridacelncatpo3.jpg
I looked into this a little more closely. Getting a new kind of plate even considered seems to require a payment of $60,000 and a survey proving that the plate would be of interest to enough people to justify designing it.
Rep. Ed Bullard is sponsoring the plate. The website for Faith in Teaching Inc. has only one name and address in it -- a small scale, rather quiet looking black Tallahassee lobbyist of 25 years experience. FIT was incorporated November of last year by a couple of ladies from a Baptist church who have no other major web presence.
Small, quiet, no smell of scam, but no telling what FITs money would be used for. Maybe to repay the initial $60k registration fee?
Looks like a modest teapot would contain this tempest nicely.
You know I think it would kind of stylish if it was accompanied by a set of those dangly scrotums that were featured on this site a little while back. Classy.
It might also be worth noting that the $25.00 "fee" on this plate, if it ends up working like all the other plates in FL, will be a YEARLY fee and not simply a one time thing. Furthermore, 100% of the revenue goes to this org associated with the plate, creating a fairly nice, long-term revenue stream for the f*tard "Faith in Teaching Inc." org.
The "good" news is at least, these fees are *NOT* tax deductible.
It's such a nice scam, I suggest we get a "Pharyngula" plate started for PZ....
The fundie version, for the believer who really wants to make a statement.
....and here is a list of all the revenues generated for each org in just 2006-7 year by the Florida special plates, so you can get an idea just how good a scam this will be!
I would like one with a Double Helix and this sign:
I KNOW
#62
Those two people out there with the Orlando Predators plates must feel special.
@jimBOB: I'd rather fancy a Discordian plate myself. I don't think we Discordians could ever agree on a common design, though... ;)
Posted by: AnonCoward
The answer is easy, it would be a golden apple with a K.
Yes, I have read Illuminati too many times.
This is wrong. A license plate and other government document, seal, IDs, etc. are not the place for political, philosophical, or religious views.
Posted by: A Lurker | April 13, 2008 9:42 PM
What about on your money?
I believe my throat hurts.
I wouldn't call someone who wanted this plate stupid or a buffoon, but the way these plates are done is clearly not in keeping with the state's job of being evenhanded. They should either allow any group that gets enough signatures or something together to sponsor a design choice, or simply not try to fancy up license plates period. If people want to express themselves with things on their cars, that's great: more power too them, except of course when it causes traffic accidents. But the state should not be getting into the business. There's simply no need for it. It's not serving any purpose at all that citizens can't simply fulfill themselves, with far greater variety.
I want to reserve the one "IDONT"
I see the Tampa Bay Lightning made out better than the D-Rays and Marlins Magic. In a state that's never got any natural ice, that's got to hurt.
In case anyone was wondering what song Stipe was singing before laughing into I Believe, it was Future Forties by the great and almost unknown Syd Straw.
Yes, I know just how geeky I am.
he says it like space shuttles and manatees arent awesome to have on your license plate. They could have a picture of rocks, like AZ.
#69
OOO! I like! This could turn into something fun.
How about "I believe..."
"IN SYENZ" or "NUTHIN" or
"DAWKINS" or "HITCH" or "HARRIS"...
Here's my poor best, an FSM Florida plate:
http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/5525/fsmfloridaplate2oh9.jpg
Can I get me one of those plates with a picture of Tinkerbell instead of the cross?
pcarini, why are you so hard on yourself. You have passed on the noodley goodness the the FSM gave you.
It's not. Which is, I think, one reason the Euro notes are fairly neutral, having ambiguous drawings of assorted monuments and bridges, and a map of "Europe" (slightly fudged to show all the Euro-using areas, such as French Guinea in South America). The drawings are deliberately ambiguous to avoid any hint of preferring one country or cultural (within "Europe" at least) over another; indeed the first set of drawings proposed was rejected because people could fairly easily figure out which bridges served as the models. (I think, for the same reason, there are rules about avoiding portraits entirely, even on the coins?)
The Euro coins, on the other hand, whilst having a common neutral design on one side, have a "national" design on the other chosen by the country that minted the coin. Right now I'm looking at Italian, Dutch(?), and French coins, and whilst there might be some historical symbolism I'm not familiar with, none looks problematic. E.g., the Italian coin has de Vinci's famous nude-man-in-a-circle drawing. I suppose if you object to having well-drawn famous artwork depicting a naked person on your coin, you might have a problem ... no, you do have a problem!
noncarborundum: Ask and ye shall receive.
Tinkerbell 1
Tinkerbell 2
This is way too easy now that I shopped out that silly T thingy...
I wouldn't call someone who wanted this plate stupid or a buffoon
to each his own, I suppose.
you mind if I..?
The version with "Beer Volcano" posted on comment #74 wins!!
It just needs "sampl" turned into "simpl" to make it complete!!
(signed) marc
It's been stated a couple times already, but I think it bears repeating: the extra money from these license plates would,
This isn't a dumb tax, it's yet another sleazy way that politicians are trying to sneak in government favorship of their religious ideas. Anyone want to guess how well this would go over if it featured a star and crescent with "I submit", with funds going to a Muslim faith-based education?
blf: I believe the american notes bear the phrase "In God We Trust". It was a major plot point for a crappy christmas movie.
Fucking Eurocentric imperialists...
Second the poor maintenance comment. Hey, the rapture is coming - why bother with oil changes or new timing belts??
The state of Florida is doing it wrong. Very wrong.
They should have the plate with "I Believe" on it.
The graphic should be blank. Then sell stick-on decals with whatever message one wants.
A cross against a window.
A Burning Cross
A Cresent
The Flying Spaghetti Monster
A UFO
A Darwin Fish
A Bass Fish
A Jet Flying into a skyscraper
A Hammer and Sickle
A Swastika
A Star of David
A Bottle of Beer
A Bottle of Whisky
The Ying Yang Sign
The Wiccan Sign
A Santeria symbol
Voodoo symbol
A Big Zero
and so on.......
The First Amendment mandates separation of church and state. It protects all of us. They cannot legally favor fundie Death Cults over any others. So just sell decals that cover all the possibilities.
Is the current choice between either a Space Shuttle or a manatee? If there was a plate that somehow incorporated the two together (perhaps a manatee riding in a Shuttle), I for one would totally buy it.
pcarini @ #78:
I think noncarburundum was refering to this Tinkerbell
> What about on your money?
I live in the UK. I'm looking at a 10 pound note, which has a picture of.....Charles Darwin.
Something tells me Matt Drudge doesn't like Hillary Clinton very much. I could be wrong about that. Just a theory I have. Only a theory.
In 2006-07, Indiana (where I live) almost out-did Florida with a license plate bearing "In God We Trust" but without any specific accompanying symbols. Indiana decided not to charge extra for the plate. In fact, I (an atheist) ended up with "In God We Trust" plates for both my wife's and my vehicles, even though we didn't ask for them. They just happened to be in plentiful supply.
The Indiana Civil Liberties Union's lawsuit is still pending.
I bet there's some crazy things on European license plates?
#1: "I believe I can fly"
Hey! I'm a hang glider pilot : I can!
Coming from the UK, I'm wondering why Americans should need anything on their number plate except letters and numbers...
"As long as we can have an atheist lisence plate, I think I'll be ok with it."
Yeah, but then some of us might actually be expected to buy one. And I have this weird idea that atheists, in general, have more taste than Christians. See below...
"but he said it was a license plate for those people who may want something other than a plate that has a manatee or picture of the Challenger space shuttle."
Yeah, forget the wonders of nature and the accomplishments of man (and the price that has been paid in the pursuit of knowledge and exploration). Not near tacky enough.
"that fundagelical Christianity is one disaster removed from volcano worship."
Speaking of car stuff, that's a worthy bumper sticker slogan right there! "Choose Life" just makes me think of Trainspotting.
Golden words make practice, practice makes perfect, perfect is a fault, and fault lines change.
I'm surprised Floridans (or anyone else) are allowed any decorative elements at all on their licence plates. One'd expect readability to trump everything else.
HM @90,
I bet there's some crazy things on European license plates?
Not really, at least not for those European nations whose plates I've seen (which is a fair few of them). They're quite sober, typically just an alphanumeric string with a small blue box to one side showing the European flag and the international letter designator for the country in question (F for France, D for Germany, E for Spain etc.).
Some have a bit of meaning to them. Here in Germany, the first letter (or two or three letters) indicate the city or Kreis (county, roughly) in which you registered the car. There's also a very modest vanity plating system. For a small fee, you can have the part of the string following the city indicator begin with your initials and end with a number of your choice (if available). Irish plates indicate one's county (in small type, and in Gaelic!) But there are SFAIK no thoroughgoing American-style vanity plates ("YANKSFAN" or what have you), and very definitely no special-interest plates with pictures and slogans.
Indeed, we really don't even go in for bumper stickers, which in some ways is a pity.
May Bob The Flying Squid (tm) squirt His ink upon the windshield of the bureaucratic subgenius who failed to realize accommodating one may turn turn Florida's Department Of Transportation into a custom shop for every species of enthusiasm and/or lunacy living in the First Amendment's copious shade.
Does this mean graphics satirizing Expelled can be transformed into license plates by April 18th ?
I will not be responsible if you are towed out of a bible belt drive-in while sporting the following :
http://adamant.typepad.com/seitz/2008/03/idiocy-of-bibli.html
@ #90
There's just letters and numbers on EU license plates. I don't think any member country allows for personalized versions (yet). Actually, when the EU wasn't in place yet, (almost) every car in Europe had a white oval sticker with the country code in black letters near it's rear license plate.
Rey @92,
"Choose Life" just makes me think of Trainspotting.
Can we get plates that read "Choose Not to Choose"? I'd pay money for one of those.
Didn't Wham! once wear shirts saying "Choose Life"? They might possibly have meant something different by it.
As long as we're rappin bout dated popcultural references, the gang at Three Bulls! offer a tshirt reading "THYCWOTI SAY RELAX". On the one hand, a Three Bulls! in-joke; on the other, a popculture allusion that is 25 years out of date, which makes it retro and charming.
The state of Georgia already has gunk plates with Christian messages like this:
http://motor.etax.dor.ga.gov/motor/plates/plate.asp?ptitle=CB ("Choose Life")
They used to have a plate for the Boy Scouts that had the not-at-all church-endorsing "god bless america" on it.
My only quesiton is what took them so long?
And, I'd also like one of the Challenger/Columbia plates.
http://www.flhsmv.gov/dmv/specialtytags/miscellaneous/challenger_columb…
In the UK, you can have personalised plates, but they are made up of ordinary plates in which the letter/number combination happens to spell something..
So, the old system would be of the form
XY XXX
(Where X is a letter and Y is a number from 1-999)
So, you could have
S1 LLY
as your numberplate if you wantes..
Now the letter/number order has changed and I dont know what it was..
Rumour had it that Darwin's beard helped him win his place, all those hairs being difficult to forge; but I think the beardless Adam Smith is on some of the newest notes (which although I'm a socialist is fine with me - seldom was an honest man so traduced by those who claim to follow his ideas). The only note I have just now is a Scottish one, which has Robert the Bruce - or Robert de Brus as he would have called himself - a murderer and turncoat of the lowest order.
If I were a member of the Florida legislature, I would probably vote against it on the grounds that it's tacky and tasteless.
If you were a member of the Florida legislature, I dare say you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
-jcr
Wow, it's even hideously tacky. Perfect.
"You'd think the House and Senate would have more important things to do."
Like change the state's official song? Nah, they already got that one taken care of. You have to postpone the actual hard work of governing until after all the meaningless protestations of personal faith etc. are taken care of.
Irishman's nitpick follows...
No, the county names are in Irish. Gaelic is a family of languages (nowadays technically Goidelic), which also includes Scots Gaelic and Manx. Just as there is no such language as "Scandinavian" (although Swedish, Norwegian and Danish are Scandinavian languages), there is no such language as Gaelic. Irish is a Gaelic language.
In Ireland, referring to Irish as "Gaelic" is a shibboleth for sorting Americans into tourists and those who've lived in Ireland for a while ;o)
You can have the former in Sweden (except I believe the character limit is five or six). Definitely no pictures or slogans, however.
I'm wondering why Americans should need anything on their number plate except letters and numbers
Fifty legal jurisdictions between which the plates need to be distinguished, that's why -- the decorative elements make it easier for the police to tell each state's license plate apart (in the dark). We do it here, too, and we only have thirteen.
Can this count as reason number (too high to count) why Florida scares the piss out of me?
Posted by mkuriluk: "As for the faith-based-plate, if the supreme court views it as a personal choice (amongst a myriad of other, more-deserving charities) as opposed to an endorsement of a particular sect or religion in general then it should be fine."
That is my understanding as well. However, the state does censor the plates. Both the decorative message as well as the plate alpha-numerics. I suspect the issue isn't quite cut-n-dry yet.
Personally, I find all the decorative plates objectionable, and am concerned they will ultimately create some significant entanglement issues that may spill over in to other areas of governance.
If something is to be done, I think the best approach is to take individual "faith based initiative"s to court. They only exist due to the faith that no one will oppose them :-(
Those "faith based initiatives" that stand the test of the court would have been fine even if the formal "faith based initiative" policies had never been written.
Re #104 Emmet, I understood Irish and Scots Gaelic were mutually intelligible (which is more than English English and some dialects of Scottish English are). Have I been misinformed? There may be interesting parallels between defining or determining what count as separate species in biology, and separate languages in linguistics.
Dibs on the vanity plate:
"IT LVR"
(think about it in the context of the chistianist plate) Why, it's even better than the classic "A55 RGY" floriduh plate with the big orange in the middle.
Being a resident of Indiana, I still can't believe the amount of people driving around with these "In God We Trust" lisence plates. If you really trusted God... why buy car insurance? Wearing your seatbelt? I'll take that as a lack of trust.
One thing I should mention: Almost all European numberplates are considerably larger than the generally unreadable US ones.
You can in Austria. Austrian numberplates contain the two-letter code of the "county", the coat of arms of the "state", and then an arbitrary letter-number combination which you can (for a fee) replace by whatever you like.
That doesn't seem to exist anywhere outside the USA.
That neither. And yes, it is a pity.
Virginia has over 200 available plate styles. Must be a big moneymaker. The most controversial would be Daughters of the Confederacy, Order of the Eastern Star, and Masons. Otherwise pretty secular.
Heh heh! Yes. "A language is a dialect with an army and a navy" -- also check out the Wikipedia articles on terms like Abstandsprache, Ausbausprache, Dachsprache; similar to these concepts, there are at least 25 species concepts out there -- and depending on the species concept you happen to like best, there are between 101 and 249 endemic bird species in Mexico. I kid thee not.
Nick: There is actually a genetic system for languages, basically the same as the Linnean system for biology. I found out about it just today while wikisurfing.
As for special-interest plates, you can get them here in New Zealand, too, with different colours of letter and pictures and stuff...
we also have novelty plate surrounds
so it's not just a US thing.
Ben: I hear you on the "ad-hoc" consideration, and personally think that is a better way to go.
I guess the issue sort of turns on whether this is more of a speech issue or a "gov't funding religion issue." If it is considered as a gov't funding religion issue, courts will tend to worry more about whether it appears the government is indoctrinating others; as opposed to providing a means by which people can make a statement by spending their money, which takes us back to personal choice vs. government establishing religion. (I have my constitutional law final exam this upcoming saturday YIPPEEE)
And although I do agree with you on the objectionable part, seeing those license plates when I visit my old man in FL will give me someone to sneer at whilst walking around south beach.
#2:
And since when is "tacky and tasteless" seen as a negative in Florida...?
To be clear: I completely agree with you that it is tacky and tasteless (in addition to being a buffoon marker etc.) - I just don't think that matters much in the state of pink plastic flamingos...
Re #114 Thanks, wazza, I'll look into that if I can find time. I'd have thought it would be difficult to apply such a system generally because "hybridisation" can occur between fairly different languages, particularly in the development of pidgins and creoles - but maybe this isn't frequent enough to be a serious problem. I know linguists have furious arguments about the classification of language groups, and how far back you can trace relationships.
Emmet @104,
I am, believe me, alive to the distinction. Writing for an audience consisting, I suspect, (almost) entirely of those who aren't, however, I opted for clarity rather than linguisticopolitical correctness. But you'll find "Gaelic" used not only by American tourists, but also by many residents of the Gaeltacht (when speaking as Béarla; in their own tongue it's just Gaeilge and always has been).
To get even nitpickier, BTW, it is not true to say that Gaelic is a (sub)family of languages; the word is not interchangeable with Goidelic. And there most certainly is a language called Gaelic. In fact, there are two of them: Scottish Gaelic and Irish Gaelic, though it's true that the "Scottish" is usually dropped in the former case and the "Gaelic" in the latter. I have never heard anybody call Manx "Gaelic", for all that this is (bar the spelling) what Manxmen themselves call it in that language, or even "a Gaelic language"; it's simply one of the three members of the Goidelic branch.
That doesn't seem to exist anywhere outside the USA.
Ontario has them.
Nick @108,
my own Gae^H^H^H Irish isn't remotely good enough for me for me to form an independent judgement on the matter, but from talking with fluent Irish-speakers, I have the impression that those from the Donegal Gaeltacht (the Irish-speaking region closest to the Gaelic-speaking parts of Scotland) can understand a fair bit of what a Scottish Gaelic speaker is saying; those from Ireland's west and southwest, less so. (There are some considerable differences among the regional dialects of Irish.)
"Mutually intelligible" might go too far, though, even if they would have been in an earlier age. Non-Gaelic speakers* in Scotland certainly referred to Scottish Gaelic as "Irish" in the 18th c. and, I believe, well into the 19th.
* And yes, having annoyed Emmet by Englishing Gaeilge as "Gaelic", I am deliberately avoiding another minefield with this awkward formulation!
You find a similar situation in Scandinavia: the danes can understand everyone else, but no one else can understand the danes. Except their writing; look up Bokmaal for a history of the Norwegian craziness.
A convenient mud splat on the B in "God Bless America" (the Alabama alternative tag) makes a nice statement.
For 25 bucks you are a believer. Why not 100 bucks for fanatic and 250 bucks for 'converse with God". Price the God plates like the Scientologists price their religious hierarchy. Bleed as much money out of them and into the state coffers as you can.
National plates should also be sold that encourage and support torture since it's so popular with the President and his minions. They could use the profits to directly fund extra painful and sadistic torture devices.
It's a perfect blend of their favorite movie (The beating of the Christ) with their current perverse fetish.
Enjoy.
I heard the same thing about the rebel flag plate:
http://www.discourse.net/archives/2008/02/florida_republican_wants_conf…
You know, "at least all the racists will be labeling themselves."
I hope someone starts a campaign for an Atheist plate then. I would never own one because I don't want my tires slashed and my paint scratched but fair is fair.
And for a while had an excellent option (alas, it is no longer offered).
I have the impression that those from the Donegal Gaeltacht (the Irish-speaking region closest to the Gaelic-speaking parts of Scotland) can understand a fair bit of what a Scottish Gaelic speaker is saying;
Just to take this even further into bizarre minutiae, this description of the Donegal Gaeltacht may be correct (the Meath Gaeltachts are probably closer, and the Falls Road Gaeltacht in Belfast is *definitely* closer, but these are very small), it's a bit weird, as Donegal is about as far away from Scotland as it is physically possible to get while remaining in Ulster. There's a whole country and the Irish Sea between it and Scotland.
Re #121 - Scandinavian languages. I'm sure I've heard somewhere that Norwegians can understand Swedish, but pretend not to in order to annoy the Swedes (Norway was ruled by Sweden until 1907). My wife speaks reasonably good Danish (but the Danish of several decades ago, learned from her mother), could follow some Swedish when we visited Sweden, and when asked in a shop, in Swedish, if she needed help, astonished both the shopkeeper and herself by coming out with whatever the Swedish is for "just looking" (in an English accent, hence the shopkeeper's astonishment). The difficulty other Scandinavians have in understanding Danish may be because it's very guttural: a friend who spent 6 months living in Denmark with a Danish girlfriend complained to me that: "Danish isn't a language, it's a throat disease!".
Thinker,
Believe it or not, pink plastic flamingos were invented and manufactured not in Florida but in Massachusetts. The guy who invented them (I forget his name) did so in Worcester, MA and used photos from National Geographic as a model because he'd never seen a live one.
Floridians just bought the things. I've yet to see one on a lawn in Massachusetts, which would be even tackier than in Florida.
What seems strange seen from Europe is this American obsession, or at least of a sizeable proportion of the population, with making a statement on the rear of their automobile. If it can't be a plate, it'll be a bumper sticker. Are people that "proud" of their beliefs ?
I know it's a cultural thing, but we don't get much of this on this side of the Atlantic.
pcarini @ #78:
I don't say this often, but you so totally rock.
Would it be legal in Florida to get one of these plates and paste something over the cross? I can see a lucrative aftermarket in alternative licence plate belief object decals. If (heaven forfend) I ever moved to Florida, I'd pay extra to have that first Tinkerbell on my license plate.
joao @ 86:
I would pay even more not to have a picture of Paris Hilton on my plate (or anywhere else, for that matter).
Joe @126,
[The] Donegal [Gaeltacht] is about as far away from Scotland as it is physically possible to get while remaining in Ulster
Yes, it is, but due to a number of historical developments over the past 800 years, Ulster has no other Gaeltacht closer to Scotland, so Donegal Irish is the closest thing we're going to get to a live connection. (Bóthar na bhFál doesn't really count; nor does Meath come to think of it*; I mean a place where people have continuously and uninterruptedly spoken Irish as their primary language since pre-modern times.) In the days when bits of Ulster farther to the east still had a native Irish-speaking population, those local dialects were presumably even closer to Scottish variants of Gaelic than what you'll hear in Gweedore or Tory Island. (After a certain point, the Gaelic spoken in the Glens of Antrim would have been Scottish variants, but that's another matter.)
* The original Gaeilgeoirí of the Meath Gaeltacht were transplanted from one of the "traditional" Gaeltachtaí, but I'm pretty sure they weren't from Ulster, so their Irish wouldn't have been especially close to Scottish Gaelic even if in their new home they were, as the crow flies, closer to Scotland than is Donegal.
Another unscientific data point on the gaelic language theme:
One of our group at uni, Irish Dave (*) could speak Irish gaelic (&), and made the comment that he could understand, alebit with a bit of difficulty, Scots Gaelic. There are some differences, but not enough to stop intelligibility.
*To distinguish him from Scottish, english, Welsh, and tall dave.
& the bit I find interesting is that his family are in fact descended from 17th century English settlers and still live in the same house.
Oh, to be the proud owner of "Cthulu" vanity plate with this motif! "Cthulu -- I believe"
Another unscientific data point on the gaelic language theme:
One of our group at uni, Irish Dave (*) could speak Irish gaelic (&), and made the comment that he could understand, alebit with a bit of difficulty, Scots Gaelic. There are some differences, but not enough to stop intelligibility.
*To distinguish him from Scottish, english, Welsh, and tall dave.
& the bit I find interesting is that his family are in fact descended from 17th century English settlers and still live in the same house.
Woohooo double post due to internal server error 500, out of time.
Or so I think it said.
Re: #118, #120, #121, #127,
From the limited amount of Scots Gaelic I've heard spoken, it should be understandable to speakers of Irish. Written down, it's very similar. I've no reason to believe that they're not mutually comprehensible in both spoken and written form, but there are differences. I've never heard Manx (nor am I likely to, I believe it's dead), but I've seen it written and if I read it out loud, I can understand it. Peculiarly, the words are "spelled like they're spoken in English", so if you understand how English is pronounced, you can read the words and they sound similar to Irish, but if you only knew how to read Irish, it would be complete gobbledegook. Strange but true.
Interestingly, there was a time when "béarla" just meant "speech" in Irish. Speculating on how it came to mean "English" and Irish came to be called "Gaeilge" is interesting. I would've expected the opposite (i.e. a coinage for the new language rather than the old one).
On the Swedish/Norwegian/Danish thing, my experience is that if you can read Swedish, you will have little difficulty getting the gist, at least, when reading the other two. The local Swedes say that the Norwegians understand Swedish better than the Swedes understand Norwegian because Norway gets Swedish TV but Swedes don't get Norwegian TV. Danish, my Norwegian and Swedish friends agree, is different, more guttural, and not easy for them to understand when spoken, but I often wonder whether Swedes in Skåne (bit of Sweden nearest Denmark where they have a more guttural accent) understand spoken Danish. Some Swedes claim not to be able to understand Skånska, let alone Danish :o)
While it's true that the "dividing lines" between languages are as much a political issue as a linguistic one, I don't see any political issue with "Irish" vs "Gaelic", it is one of accuracy: "Gaelic" is ambiguous and "Irish" isn't. The free bonus is that you don't irritate people when you say "Irish" :o)
#67 Janine,
Thanks for the REM vid! Wow, Michael Stipe when he had hair. Mike Mills is one of my bass playing influences. And yes, I've heard of Syd Straw!
Gee why am I not surprised? After all, there's nothing so vile that the people of Florida won't put on the plate.
We here in South Carolina in the buckle of the bible belt actually have secular humanist license plates.
I understand that the original abbreviation for sample depicted on the plate was "SMPLE," but was rejected for obvious reasons.
Nope. Most importantly, the linguists have never been stupid enough to introduce ranks (class, order, family, that sort of "thing"), and almost none consciously use paraphyletic groupings (that contain an ancestor and not all of its descendants).
It's more like phylogenetic nomenclature in that respect, though unfortunately the phylogenetic definitions are missing.
This exact wording must be a pretty old invention. After all, I've heard it from my grandfather -- in Austria.
And it was even more similar before the Irish spelling reform that eliminated the worst of the worst excesses like a couple of silent dh.
It's been called a "zombie language" because it's being revived. That's also where the spelling reform that makes it look like English comes from. No idea what will come of it.
I thought it meant "refined language of the bards", "prestige language"? When English became the prestige language, the name was transferred to it, I've read.
David @141,
That's also where the spelling reform that makes it look like English comes from.
You're right about the modern revival of Manx, but not about that part. Manx orthography is quite old, and was invented pretty much out of whole cloth by an English-speaking clergyman. As Emmet notes, this orthography is not at all of Gaelic origin; it looks a bit like an English-speaker had taken down dictation from an Irish-speaker, because that is more or less exactly what happened!
I hear tell of at least 49 other nearby regions which don't have a manatee or picture of the Challenger space shuttle on their licence plates.
This one's for you, j.t.delaney.
#127:
As a Swede, I would certainly agree, and add that a good way to simulate Danish is to take a spoonful of porridge in your mouth and then start talking whatever language you want...
Joking among good neighbors aside: how easy it is to understand Danish or Norwegian depends very much on the dialect spoken - some are much easier than others. I assume it is the same for Norwegians and Danes trying to understand Swedish.
That makes sense. So much sense that it rings a vague bell, and I'm not sure if I read it before somewhere or I just think I might have!
I haven't seen much written Scots Gaelic and it was a long time ago. I remember being able to read it, but I don't remember it looking more like Irish from before the spelling reform; that's probably my notoriously lousy memory. The only distinctive thing I remember about Scots Gaelic is that the spelling rule "caol le caol 's leathan le leathan" is absolute, rather than having a few exceptions as Irish has. The "blessing" by An Gúm of new words that don't obey this rule, like the execrable "telefón", annoys the hell out of me.
As a kid of about 10, I taught myself the "old orthography" and I still prefer my séimhiú "buailte" rather than as an "h" (although I know the justification from middle Irish) and the old letter forms. I read that the "new orthography" was introduced in the 40's solely to avoid the expense of special Irish typewriters. With computers, that's a non-issue, I often wonder whether we shouldn't consider reversing it. The spelling reform is a different matter, though, I wouldn't want to have to deal with doubling the length of every word with extraneous consonants!
http://www.flhsmv.gov/dmv/specialtytags/
Florida seems to have a habit of making up all kinds of nonsensical plates- they have a pro-life plate already- I guess a lot of states may be doing this.
As backwards as the state already is- and ill-led on top of it all- it's no surprise at all.
Although it's not that good of a movie, Mike Judge's "Idiocracy" pops into my head just now.
No, we get inanities such as:
"My other car is a Porsche", and
"Watch my rear, not hers,", and
"Baby on board".
I consider the last of these approaches incitement to infanticide.
This seems okay to me, as long as they also provide a version with a six-pointed star for Jewish drivers, and one with a crescent for Muslim drivers, and one with a five-pointed star for Wiccan drivers ... (a long time later) ... and one with nothing at all, or perhaps the "atomic A" symbol, for atheist drivers. UNLESS they do this, however, providing a version of this sort of thing for EVERY religion, this is clearly a violation of church and state -- not that I've seen much sign that the government gives a flying fig about such things these days, especially in places like Florida.
~David D.G.
Well if people want to give their money for it and they know where their money is going, I really don't see that as a problem.
I mean if you can say all kinds of things about Jesus and God in a vain way on Tshirts and Atheists tshirts, then I don't see the problem.
I guess it is only wrong when you can put religion on something.
We all know that if it was up to the people on this blog, there would be no religion but their own anyway. (Yes, I went there).
I suspect that the constitution will be changed and religion will not be a protected freedom anymore.
I live in California and it's already becoming a liberal, Atheistic, and communist state.
They have banned smoking outside and inside of your home and then they have banned burning of wood in your fireplace at home. Next is banning Burger King because people that eat there get fat. Then religion because Athiests have deemed it as dangerous.
Why is it that the first thing I thought about when I saw that license plate was the "I Want To Believe" UFO poster?
I love it, there is a sucker born every minute. I need the warning, how else are you going to tell where the idiots are. We need plates that say " first sin=belief, first virtue= DOUBT ".
PK @151,
I guess it is only wrong when you can put religion on something.
[...]
I suspect that the constitution will be changed and religion will not be a protected freedom anymore.
No, you dolt. The problem is not you putting religion on something. The problem is the state putting religion on something. In the United States, religion is and doubtless always will be a protected freedom. The US constitution contains the free exercise clause, which forbids the state to interfere in your private beliefs. And I feel certain that very few people who comment here would want to change that.
The problem with people like you, though, is that you're always forgetting that other clause the constitution contains: the establishment clause, which forbids the state to promote any one religion (or religion-in-general). The two clauses always need to be held in balance.
Here, Florida is actively promoting Christianity (specifically, a lowbrow sentimentalist evangelical sub-variant of protestant Christianity). That's the first problem. I leave it to constitutional scholars (I am not one) to suggest whether this is OK so long as Florida also offers stars of David, crescents, "OM" symbols and the face of Richard Dawkins wearing his official Atheist Pope hat (though if I were a prudent state official, mindful of my legal budget, I think I'd give the whole "religious plates" thing a miss).
The second problem is that the state is apparently funnelling the proceeds to a religious group. Again, IANACS, but it's hard to see how that would not violate the establishment clause. It amounts, very nearly, to a church tax collected by the state (something that does exist, BTW, in countries whose people are much more secular than Americans but whose constitutions are not as formally enlightened). True, the "tax" is voluntary; only those who actively request the plates will pay it. So perhaps the better analogy is this: a state collecting donations to (say) the Southern Baptist Church, and passing those donations (minus, perhaps, a processing fee) to the SBC. Do you think that would pass constitutional muster? I don't. And I don't think the special-Florida-plates-for-mawkish-biblethumpers thing differs substantially from that scheme.
We'll have to leave it to the courts to decide. I suspect this is going to end up costing Florida a bundle. That would be a pity if it meant the state then had less money to improve education or healthcare for its residents. But a state that would seriously consider plates like these probably wouldn't have spent the money on anything sensible anyway.
But note again: the problem isn't the plates as such, or even that some Christian group will get the profits from their sale. The problem is that it is the state selling them. If some private group were selling tawdry religious bumper-stickers, or those frames one sometimes sees around the plates, or even if Florida allowed individual plate-holders to decorate their plates anyway they liked (including with Jesus pictures) so long as the numbers were still legible, then sure, we'd still all point our fingers and laugh at you, but there would be absolutely no grounds for constitutional complaint.
It continually blows my mind how many Americans just don't get this.
No wonder I'm such a wreck.
Re Danish: Bjarne Stroustrup, Danish geek and inventor of C++ (as opposed to serial killer), offers this advice on how to pronounce his name: "start by saying it a few times in Norwegian, then stuff a potato down your throat and do it again"
So being a Christian is being a baffoon? Can you explain this in more detail?
I live in California and it's already becoming a liberal, Atheistic, and communist state.
Well, bravo for California!
One thing I should mention: Almost all European numberplates are considerably larger than the generally unreadable US ones.
You can in Austria. Austrian numberplates contain the two-letter code of the "county", the coat of arms of the "state", and then an arbitrary letter-number combination which you can (for a fee) replace by whatever you like.
That doesn't seem to exist anywhere outside the USA.
That neither. And yes, it is a pity.
Heh heh! Yes. "A language is a dialect with an army and a navy" -- also check out the Wikipedia articles on terms like Abstandsprache, Ausbausprache, Dachsprache; similar to these concepts, there are at least 25 species concepts out there -- and depending on the species concept you happen to like best, there are between 101 and 249 endemic bird species in Mexico. I kid thee not.
Nope. Most importantly, the linguists have never been stupid enough to introduce ranks (class, order, family, that sort of "thing"), and almost none consciously use paraphyletic groupings (that contain an ancestor and not all of its descendants).
It's more like phylogenetic nomenclature in that respect, though unfortunately the phylogenetic definitions are missing.
This exact wording must be a pretty old invention. After all, I've heard it from my grandfather -- in Austria.
And it was even more similar before the Irish spelling reform that eliminated the worst of the worst excesses like a couple of silent dh.
It's been called a "zombie language" because it's being revived. That's also where the spelling reform that makes it look like English comes from. No idea what will come of it.
I thought it meant "refined language of the bards", "prestige language"? When English became the prestige language, the name was transferred to it, I've read.
You know, they have one of these in Arkansas that is WAY more objectionable in my opinion. This one seems to be referring to the driver of the car as being a christian, I don't object to that as long as I can have a Humanist plate as well.
But the one in Arkansas has "In God We Trust" on it, and a picture of the arkansas state capitol building. To me this is more a government endorsement of religion than the Florida one.
I wrote about the Arkansas plate here:
http://reasonableatheist.blogspot.com/2007/11/in-god-we-trust-license-p…