While I am sorry for the pain that his family now feels, we can all take solace in the fact that the extinction of the televangelist was all part of god's loving plan.
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"I shudder to think where the country would be right now if the religious right had not evolved," Falwell said when he stepped down as Moral Majority president in 1987.
I didn't realize he believed in evolution.
Love the title.
So, when is Rush Limbaugh's number up?
This works out very well for all concerned -- if Falwell is right in his beliefs, he is now in eternal bliss, and the rest of us are rid of his pompous, intolerant, sanctimonious ass. This is pretty much a win-win.
They say that deaths come in threes. Hmm.
don't be so sure. We have to wait 3 days and then see if he rises.
Romney and McCain have already said kind words about him publicly to commemorate his death.
Well, they aren't getting my vote.
God is clearly sending a message to creationists everywhere.
Heh. Right now he's saying "But Lord Horus, how was I supposed to know?"
I can't work up any sympathy for someone who said I was personally responsible for 9/11.
"My condolences to his family. I didn't know the man personally, but as a public figure I always found him rather contemptible."
This is just another reason that I'm trying like Hell to get into Hell.
I figure Hell isn't that bad of a place. At any rate, I can have dinner with Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin, lunch with the Huxley clan, cabin building contests with Abe Lincoln, I can visit Carl Sagan, hobnob with the Baron d'Holbach, go out Friday nights with the Marquis de Sade and Casanova, talk to almost all of the great physicists of the 20th century, get drunk and surly with Hemingway, egg Thomas Edison's car, argue with Freud, and on and on.
It's like a never ending cocktail party filled with the most brilliant people in history. Compare that to the jerks who are getting into Heaven. No thanks.
As deaths go, you have to admit this was a pretty merciful one. Sounds like he was fine at breakfast and then just never knew what hit him. I'll leave his family and friends to grieve and just stay out of it. Ideally, I'd like to live longer than 73 years if my health holds up, but otherwise, this is probably the way to go.
Falwell was one of the philosophical opponents of personal freedom, and in in his practical work, a continual threat to American freedom. I set aside the rule about not speaking ill of the dead when such a villain dies. I plan on dancing at Castro's funeral, also.
I feel complete and utter devastation at the loss of such a righteous man. Please come back soon Robert Horry.
/Spurs Fan
Yeah. I'm going to do a little jig when Putin kicks the bucket. That's assuming there isn't some kind of cloning program going on. For all I know, we're on Putin Sn. 3657, Vat 2.
My local (Connecticut) progressive blog has this charming Falwell/Robertson duet on its front page today. I think most people these days would say Falwell was the (relatively) sane one of the two, but in this crazy little number he's clearly singing lead, blaming "the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America" for 9/11!
Of course I never want to seem to exult in another man's death... but it's extremely hard not to conclude that the cause of peace and justice in the world is better served by his passing than it ever was by his life. [sigh]
I noticed this story mentioned that Falwell used to be "opposed to mixing preaching and politics." It completely neglected to mention that he articulated this view in reference to pro-civil rights ministers: "[I question]"the sincerity and intentions of some civil rights leaders such as Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., Mr. James Farmer, and others, who are known to have left-wing associations.... [P]reachers are not called to be politicians, but to be soul winners."
Would that he had been as consistent on this point as he was on so many other wrongheaded points throughout his execrable life. Farewell, Mr. Falwell; I only regret that the hell to which you condemned so many others during your lifetime does not exist to welcome you with open, flaming arms. ("Flaming." Huh-huh.")
Oh, I'm also going to throw a huge party when Kissinger's soul phylactery is finally found and cast into a forge.
Hmmm... I didn't mean my previous post to suggest that My Left Nutmeg was mine in any sense other than it's where I go to read about politics with a progressive slant and a Connecticut focus. Not for nothin', but I frequently link to Pharyngula in my comments and diaries there.
Falwell was bad news, and I am not sorry to see him go. Hopefully his death will create a void which will cause some infighting among prominent bigots right-winged Christians.
Will Liberty University and Moral Majority continue without him? I personally think that the US would be a better place without the later.
Why shouldn't we exult in Falwell's death? As a gay man, I've experienced years of the hatred his despicable anti-gay rhetoric inspired. People have been disowned by their families because of Falwell's bigoted preaching. Moreover, Falwell was a cheif architect of the theocratic right that has pushed so hard to destroy science education in this country, roll back anti-discrimination laws, and give racists and bigots of all stripes divine justification for their hate.
A genuinely evil man died today, and the world is a better place for it.
They should vie for power by the holmgang.
When someone like Falwell dies, I feel an irrational regret for the fact that there is no aftelife because that means that Falwell will never experience the chagrin of learning that, um, there is no afterlife. Look, I SAID it was an irrational regret, o ye International Ogre of the Interwebs.
And the world mourns....oh, who the hell am I kidding? The man is and was an ass and the world is better off without his pathetic bigotry.
Rot in the ground, Falwell. The only good use you had was fertilizer.
I have to reluctantly agree with Gobear that the passing of an evil man is a good thing for society. I hate to say it because I don't enjoy the suffering of others (his family, in this case), but for that very same reason I'm glad to see him gone.
So it goes.
The world just got a little less evil.
if Falwell is right in his beliefs, he is now in eternal bliss . . .
Tulse - Gotta disagree. If there was anything to Falwell's theology (or Robertson's or anyone else who uses other people's desire to do what's right to line his own pockets), he's being turned on a spit as I type this.
Well, that's one down...
I'm just glad the bastard's dead. I just hope Fred Phelps doesn't die right away--I might be too happy.
Usually, famous deaths come in threes.
Johnny Hart, Jerry Falwell and ...
Now that we've all 'checked in' in expressing our 'regrets' at the passing of a bigot, perhaps each person should find one (additional) good thing they would choose to do to benefit society and go that one extra step to negate his legacy of hatred and divisiveness.
I'm hoping Dobson goes next... while bound by his dominatrix.
I thought people like him never died.
Paging Pat Robertson. Pat Robertson. Would Pat Robertson please report to his office after breakfast? Thank you.
Resurrection? You mean, becoming undead.
Then Dick Cheney... choking on quail.
I'm sure his sons will continue the tradition of bigotry, homophobia and hate.
Spent his life spewing nonsense about a non-existent god.
What a joke.
Is it bad that I'm actually happy with his death?
"don't be so sure. We have to wait 3 days and then see if he rises."
Why, is there a full moon or something??
I was expecting a headline of : "Fat Fundy Finally Fries" :)
Ding, Dong, the fundie's gone...
Too bad he just croaked peacefully. When I first heard, I had a wonderful vision of a fiery fundie neo-con plane crash that included all his cockroach pals erupting in a ball of flames. Still, this is second best. Roast, you bastard.
Remember . . . dance first, then piss.
I can't work up any sympathy for someone who said I was personally responsible for 9/11.
So, Horrobin, which one(s) are you? I think I managed all of them.
Certainly not because he deserves any sympathy (though Leon's point [@#25] about the suffering of others is well taken). I just fear that exultation in death -- even the deserved death of an evil man -- is toxic to the psyche of the exultor. I'm afraid it will damage me to be gleeful about a fellow human's death... and Falwell isn't worth that price.
I agree entirely. And yet, one could say the same after many an execution (admittedly not all of them, which is a whole 'nother discussion), and one of the reasons I'm profoundly troubled by the death penalty is the extent to which it encourages bereaved families to root for death... and in many cases to spend years doing so... instead of searching for healing and consolation. (BTW, I recognize that last sentence has the stink of religion about it, but I assure you I mean earthly, secular "healing and consolation," not a pat on the head from the Man in the Sky.)
Good riddance. Wish I believed in hell, but the thought of him rotting in the ground provides some solace. May Roberson and Dobson join him soon.
I guess he lived up to his name. He "fell well." But more than likely he's in hell. At least I can have faith : )
Robertson will never die. He's got his Jesus-Semen Protein Milkshakes.
As for Falwell, stick the fat bastard in the ground so he can finally stop stinking up the planet.
Now that Falwell is gone, my hope is that his legacy fades away, too. Unfortunately, he was able to institutionalize his extremism in Liberty University and we can't know whether Falwell's absence will cause the school to moderate its hard-right fundamentalism or shrink in size because it can't pull in the contributions that their founder could draw. Like Pat Robertson's Regents University (esp. the law school) and D. James Kennedy's Coral Ridge operation, the corporate bodies have the potential to lumber on wreaking havoc long after the leading lights blink out. Kennedy's illness and absence doesn't seem to have slowed down his outfit at all.
I am glad that he and his intolerant, hateful words, etc are gone (except in recordings etc. of course). I admit it. However, I do wish that he wouldn't have had to die to have that happen. I wish his evil words and deeds could have gone away without the loss of his life. I think that's what alot of us are expressing here.
Nonsense. He made his bed, and he crapped in everyone else's while he was at it.
"If there be a hell, it had received at last the demon soul of an unhallowed thing." -H. P. Lovecraft
I'm an atheist, but I don't see why everybody is celebrating Falwell's death. What did he do that was so bad? Is expressing disagreement with the fag pervert "lifestyle" really that great a crime?
If there was a heaven, I imagine it would go something like this:
Falwell to God: Is my suite ready???
God to Falwell: Ummm, I hope you packed your sun glasses and some chap stick.
Ignore the Terrorist loving patriot.
McVeigh was a terrorist.
Ewww. What a dreadful, awful stench. I forgot to wear my trollgas-mask.
Yes, Bill, I tend to agree, though it is possible to pursue healing while believing the perpetrator does not deserve to live. Of course, that opens up the whole "But who are we to decide who lives or dies?" question.
On one hand "any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind" and all that jazz. On the other, we no longer have to put op with the miasma of palpable evil he exuded from every hate encrusted pore.
All things considered, I think we came out well in the black on this one.
My prayers were answered...
All Hail the Flying Spaghetti Monster!!
May She be breathing Her parmesan cheesy breath down the necks of Dobson and Robertson!
@McVeigh was a Patriot -
It is unfortunate that it requires the death of Jerry Falwell to at least put a dent into the spewing of Christian right-wing hatred and intolerance, but I wonder (I think your moniker speaks volumes) if you are not 'in bed' with Falwell's ideals. McVeigh can not in any sense be considered to have been a patriot. When did patriots start killing children? You seem to be one of those that has this strange, unsubstantiated belief that homosexuality is a choice. When did you 'choose' to be heterosexual?
All right, I'm convinced. There is a God after all. No, wait. If there were a God, Falwell would have had a heart attack while wearing high heels and a leather bustier and sodomizing a 13 year-old Muslim boy. Never mind.
If the death of Christ's dutiful servant doesn't affect funding of the Lord's own Law School, Bush & Co. will be able to recruit some more brilliant lawyer whores.
"...while wearing high heels and a leather bustier and sodomizing a 13 year-old Muslim boy Macho Business Donkey Wrestler."
Why are we feeling sorry for his family? Surely, if they practice what they preach, their happiness that he's finally achieved everlasting peace and joy basking in God's love should way more than outweigh their selfish sorrow at being temporarily deprived of his companionship.
Because virtually everyone mourns the loss of a loved one in some way, regardless of culture or creed. I object to the mocking of personal grief. YMMV.
Is expressing disagreement with the fag pervert "lifestyle" really that great a crime?
Oh come on! The man rants and raves about how his fellow human beings are going to hell because the're different, and you, hypocrite lecture, ask if thats a crime? No. No, you sanctimonious ass, it isn't a crime. Not a legal one, at any rate. But as a moral crime, what he says and does are not forgivable.
As a jew, I've heard people say "i'm not a neo-nazi, but..." and people like that make me sick. Whether or not there is a god is not for me to say, but i'm reasonably sure that he's not in favor of this insanity.
And as for you, when did homosexuality become a "choice"? Did you chose to be a heterosexual? What about a bigoted idiot?
Glad I got that out of my system. The fact is, I know nothing about you, and from your comments, I don't want to.
How strange that McVeigh was a Patriot would consider homosexuality to be a perversion, yet bombing a daycare somehow is not.
I don't know about atheist, MWAP. I think there's another word that starts with 'A' that more accurately describes you.
horrobin:
Falwell said (from http://www.spcm.org/Journal/spip.php?article10987):
So which one are you? I'm only on this list once, maybe twice.
I remember reading a few weeks ago that, in 1980, Pat Robertson predicted the rapture might occur April 29, 2007. The radio program "Weekend America" had a pretty good piece on it on April 28. Does anyone else remember hearing it?
http://weekendamerica.publicradio.org/programs/2007/04/28/apocalypse_wh…
Exactly my sentiment, Elfeye - the worst part of being an Atheist is the inability to say, "I told you so" in regards to an afterlife.
Let me try to say something nice about Falwell,
He was truly one of the most impressively bigotted god-buggerers of our age. Between his prideful hatred and superstitious racketeering, Falwell is worthy of our disdain and ultimate compassionalte contempt. May the worms crawl in, may the worms crawl out, may the worms play peaknuckle on his snout.
Well, thats about as good as I could pull off.
Late and unlamented - may he shriek in agony for all eternity. (Sometimes it's useful to retain a modicum of faith.)
This man founded the Moral Majority, campaigned against women's rights, gay rights, separation of church and state, and the teaching of sound science education, and was a major contributor to the social and political climate that gave us the Bush and Reagan presidencies. This man has done more damage to America than Osama Bin Laden could ever dream of, and yet there are people stupid and bigoted enough to regard him as hero. Now he is no longer in a position to harm anyone directly. Yes, this is worth celebrating. It's unfortunate that he dedicated his life to fomenting hatred, glorifying ignorance, embodying corruption and hypocrisy, and impeding progress, but he chose to do so and must have known, at some level, what he was doing. He deserves no pity.
This man founded the Moral Majority, campaigned against women's rights, gay rights, separation of church and state, and the teaching of sound science education, and was a major contributor to the social and political climate that gave us the Bush and Reagan presidencies. This man has done more damage to America than Osama Bin Laden could ever dream of, and yet there are people stupid and bigoted enough to regard him as hero. Now he is no longer in a position to harm anyone directly. Yes, this is worth celebrating. It's unfortunate that he dedicated his life to fomenting hatred, glorifying ignorance, embodying corruption and hypocrisy, and impeding progress, but he chose to do so and must have known, at some level, what he was doing. He deserves no pity.
While watching CNN at the gym, I saw that as recently as a week ago, Falwell was asking for 20 more years from God to complete his ministry, just as He had granted 15 years to Hezekiah (Isaiah 38).
I know of no more obvious sign of God's distaste for Falwell than this.
Interesting; wonder why the "you must wait before posting again" filter doesn't catch accidental duplicate mouse clicks x.x
And as for you, when did homosexuality become a "choice"? Did you chose to be a heterosexual?
Asher E. - I honestly believe a lot of the Holy Joes do "choose" it--or as we would say, retreat into the closet. (Ted Haggard and Jim Bakker are famous examples thereof, but the Bible Belt's full of lonely, anonymous people who've been so shamed into giving up that part of their lives by the likes of Falwell, it hardly matters what their orientation is.) When they say it's a choice, they're speaking from their own experience, however pointlessly self-abnegating it is.
Well at least you guys are refreshingly honest. Usually when someone dies the hyprocracy flows out like fudge and the dead person is treated as truly great. Remember Nixon?
With apologies to Kurt Vonnegut:
Jerry is in the dirt now...
...or at least soon will be.
I imagine he thought he was doing good. Certainly the world's better off without him, but it would have been nice if he could have just been safely tucked away somewhere with a VR helmet on, dreaming of post-Rapture America.
"Daemon!" Lovecraft didn't spell like a filthy Yankee.
I say we must not wish an eternity of suffering on any sentient being. (That's THEIR wish, remember - the one to which we so often object.) May he instead experience, in real-time, the many and varied obstacles, pains, frustrations and persecutions of all the people whose lives his ministries and machinations impacted negatively.
It wouldn't be agony, nor would it be eternal, but it would keep him busy for several centuries. After that, detention would be over, and he'd be free to go play in the fields and valleys of eternal loveliness.
I think that's fair.
Kseniya: I don't think he should be free until he comes to truly regret what he did. Simply living through it once may not be enough.
Anton Mates: I'll scan the page when I get home.
#62
I'm not mocking personal grief. I really don't know why we need to preface a discussion about Falwell's death and his legacy with a perfunctory comment about the sorrow we feel for his family. I'm certainly no more sorry for his family than I am for the families of the other ~149,999 people that die on a daily basis, not because I'm cold, indifferent, or gleeful of their suffering, but mostly because I'm human and can only empathise for people I have no contact with in a very general way.
Falwell took glee in others' suffering, both real and imaginary: he willfully persecuted individuals with beliefs divergent to his, and rejoiced in the concept of a vengeful God who would continue to torment them forever after. I am glad he is gone, only because he is personally no longer able to inflict pain on others. If I were to meet someone who was close to him and genuinely felt sorrow at his passing, you can be certain that I would hold my opinions and sincerely express my condolences.
However, here, on this blog, I don't feel that I'm being unduly disrespectful by pointing out the irony of a belief system that encourages its believers to deny humanity in others and themselves, yet ultimately cannot protect them from the sorrow that sometimes comes with being human.
It's often said (erroneously, of course) that there are no atheists in foxholes. I'd wager that it's much more accurate to note that there are no Christians at a funeral.
Why are all these people who ask whether McVeigh was a Patriot chose to be heterosexual assuming that he is?
Everbody dies. Too bad this one did so much evil while he was still alive and never saw the light to correct the evil that he did.
the worms go in
the worms go out
the worms play pinochle on his snout
Today is a very sad day, indeed.... but not because Falwell died, but because my uncle Jerry, a 43 y/o single father of 15 and 12 y/o sons passed away this morning. I grieve, but it ain't for Falwell. My uncle did more in life and left so much a better legacy than that fat bastard did. At least I hears some good news today.
I don't see much good in the whole situation, I'm afraid. Here's a man who wasted whatever abilities he had on enslaving and oppressing others. The damage that he did will live on for a very long time. His family is probably now overcome with shock and grief. Sounds to me like a tragedy all 'round.
I guess I feel relief that he can't do any more damage, but our larger struggle goes on, and I don't see an end in sight. One possible next step: write a letter to the paper reminding readers of all the ugly things Falwell did and said that the press is going to conveniently forget over the next few days.
Congratulations, USA.
The coverage of JF's death in New Zealand is stunningly parochial - in the report I heard this morning, they said that his main claim to fame in Kiwiland was having debated former Prime Minister David Lange in the 1980s, over NZ's nuclear-free policy. In the course of the debate Lange said to Falwell "I can smell the uranium on your breath."
Jamie Guinn - How sad. And so young. What happened?
I'm so sorry for the loss of your uncle, JG. Best to you and your family.
Arrrr, Azkyroth, that's an interesting point matey, maybe you're right, but that seems like tyranny to me. Perhaps the least and the most we can do for him is to allow him the opportunity to experience what he wrought in all its fullness, so that he may come to regret all or part of it and so we may then judge him according to our own standards. I don't feel sufficiently comfortable with the literally absolute rightness of my position to grant myself the power, or the right, to subject anyone to an eternity of anything for the sake forcing him to agree with me. If the tables were turned, I would certainly ask no less than the opportunity to make up my own mind based on the lesson offered.
Brownian @ #79:
Well stated, I understand what you mean now. I mistook your pointing out the irony for a distain for their grief. My mistake.
As for those perfunctory comments, I think it stems from the desire many people have to make it known that they recognize that every person has public and private sides, and that most of our ideological foes, no matter how abhorrent they are to us in the public arena, have people who care about them and will miss them. Is it hypocrisy to offer that acknowledgement as a preface to a criticism of the man's life's work? Maybe. I don't know.
Kseniya:
"Is it hypocrisy to offer that acknowledgement as a preface to a criticism of the man's life's work?"
Probably not. I can't imagine that genuinely wanting to comfort another could ever be hypocritical. Or, if it is, it's probably better to be a hypocrite than callous and indifferent to suffering.
Good point, CJColucci. Most homophobes are that way because they live their lives terrified that they are what they rail against.
Off-topic, but couldn't resist after #82:
The worms crawl in
The worms crawl out
The worms post to the net
From your account
We don't know yet, they are taking him up to the coroner's office for an autopsy. He was in a motorcycle accident over a decade ago that left him paralyzed from the waste down. They didn't expect him to live past 40. Somehow he managed to walk again, although in constant pain. I will greatly miss him.
Jamie, you have my condolences. I lost my mother when she, like your uncle, was 43. Peace...
Everybody has alluded to it, but I just want to ask: Jerry, how did that Pascal's Wager thing turn out?
I am having a hard time with any alligator tears, here. He's gone, not forgotten. His legacy will, I am afraid, live on. And if not there are more to take up the "shoes of the fisherman."
On the other hand, is it possible that he died so that we may live (better?)
Someone who may or may not be religious gets a few good Eric Hoffer quotes that fit that fat dead bigot to a T.
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/God+and+social+change-a0152267676
It doesn't take as long to say it as it will take for people who don't read Pharyngula to realize it: Fallwell was so toxic for freedoms and tolerance that in the end, he is a gift to Atheists and a huge embarrassment to religious moderates and progressives.
a bit late, but i just have to:
steve_c:
Then Dick Cheney... choking on quail.
or even better, choking on Quayle.
...but somehow I think that death is reserved for Ted Haggard.
A couple of years ago, when Ronald Reagan died, W gave us the following Friday off. I did not want a day off to celebrate the life of Ronald Reagan or to honor his memory.
But that Friday, Ray Charles died. We were on our way to Yosemite, just by coincidence, and I felt like, well, at least now this day off to remember past heroes has a point.
It was sad to lose Ray, but at least we got a day off to honor his memory. And so I did.
McVeigh was a patriot wrote
you know when i first saw that i actually thought y'all were joking .....
good riddance to a vicious hatemongering abuser ...though im quite sure his family and friends are grieving (and they do have my sympathy..losing a friend/family member is painful)
God hates lies, and I would be a liar if I said my heart didn't do a small happy dance when I heard this. I'm not proud of it, but God hates pride, too, right?
(*looks expectantly at Robertson*)
In 1980, out of curiosity, I was at a pro-Reagan rally conducted by Falwell at the State Capitol (where I worked at the time) in Sacramento. My recollection of the event is posted here:
Farewell to Falwell
If the title strikes you as unduly gentle and kind, I nevertheless managed to find a perfectly good way to end the post with "Damn you, Jerry Falwell!"
But all in good taste, of course.
.......and the rumour is that he roused in the ambulance and his his last words were "I've seen the truth......there is no god..." or something to that effect.
btw, for those wondering about McCain:
In 2000 Senator John McCain ran against then governor George W. Bush for the Republican presidential nomination from a platform on which he explicitly attacked the Rev Falwell and the Rev Robertson, calling them "Agents of intolerance".
McCain's been on opposite sides of so many issues so many times I defy anyone to say what his actual position on anything really is.
It would be a frickin miracle if one of the rethuglican candidates stood up and pointed out how much damage to the republican party the support of right wing extremeists like Falwell has actually caused them over the last 25 years.
they need to excise these folks from their party like a tumor, not coddle them because they lost "one of their own".
My father died today after struggling for years with dementia. A few hours after he was gone, I got home to see Falwell had died -- for some reason this pissed me off royally.
Liz Tracey, you have my deepest sympathies: I just found out that my grandfather passed away from kidney failure this afternoon.
...
As horrid a man Jerry Falwell was, I can't stomach the idea of making light of another family's loss. That, and Jerry Falwell was such a despicable person that I can't bring myself to make light of him without tickling my gag reflex.
He reminded me of this demon from the episode of the Real Ghostbusters cartoon, "The Thing in Mrs Faversham's Attic," where it says, "Look at my domain... Do you like it? It has the word "Hate" written over every inch of it!"
im in ur corpse, pinochle'n ur sn0utz
Jamie, Liz, Stanton--you have my deepest condolences.
Enjoy every day of your life. That's a kick in his teeth.
Thank you, Redmolly.
Eewolf, want to be in charge of the music for my funeral?
I almost wish karma was real, so he could be reincarnated as the lesbian daughter of an illegal immigrant prostitute. It might teach him that the people he spent all *this* life hating are human beings too.
Stanton,
I don't do funerals but I might suggest:
And I am truly sorry for your loss.
Hey, that reminds me!
"Well, do you have a message for Jimi Hendrix?"
"Yes! "Pick up your puppy!""
*woof*
I don't doubt it's spelled that way in some edition--do you have the Del Rey? But the Arkham House edition is the most faithful to the original manuscripts IMO, and preserves all of his lovely archaisms.
Liz, I know (sorta') how you feel: On September 11, 2001, my then 10-year-old daughter was in the hospital recovering from brain cancer surgery (actually, we didn't find out for sure the tumor was malignant 'til 9/12, but we pretty much knew). Aside from all the normal, sane reasons to be furious about the attack, I was also pissed that the nation's crisis interfered with my family's personal crisis.
I'm very sorry for your loss (you too, Jamie and Stanton).
FWIW, my daughter is fine now, and preparing to bankrupt me, a year and a summer from now, by going to a very good college (if only she'd go ahead and decide which one!).
Good riddance.
Thank you, Brownian, for this:
I'm sure I will borrow that observation many times in the future.
As for the deaths in threes thing...Jack Valenti died a few weeks back...speaking of evil old men...
Falwell did not invent anything. All he did was to help orginize a geat many foolish and fearfl people and stood in the way of all o us who at least try to act rationally.His legacy survives him. Anyone who watched Dawkins on Book TV a few months ago must remember all of tose students from Liberty University who asked all of those tired and innane questions. Those students wll soon be loose amoung the res of us, touched by Falwell.
Yes, the bastard is dead and I rejoice. But what he stood for is not going away anyime soon.
It's times like this I really wish there was an afterlife (but not the Christian one), just to enjoy the reaction of the likes of Falwell and for him to realize that his entire life was based on an utterly erroneous idea.
God will see you now, Dr. Falwell. But I must warn you, she is seriously pissed.
Buffybot said
Lange was an excellent debater and this statement was actually made to a Falwell stooge during questions. I thought I might find this Oxford debate on YouTube, but sadly there's no sign of it.
Lets organize May 15 as "Jerry Falwell is Dead" day as National holiday
for the paegans, I am sure Athiests can get behind this.
We can only hope that his legacy will soon be forgotten, except as a cautionary lesson.
I think god realized that, when the rapture comes, he doesn't have enough angels to haul his fat ass all the way to heaven.
I'm all for schaudenfraud normally, but the guy is dead. Death is pretty serious. Fallwell said and did some pretty bad things in his life, but, still, the guy just died. I recall reading creationists that were gleeful at Stephen J Gould's death, talking about him being in hell and lamenting his error, and that was in pretty damned bad taste.
also, as an aside, why is everyone saying they are sorry for his family, but glad that an evil man has died? It should be pretty clear that Fallwell was not an anamoly, that the rest of his family and friends pretty much thought like him. I mean, Hitler's parents probably weren't too chummy with the local jews or commies, or Bin Laden's extended family, despite public appearances, sure ain't going to be fans of the US. Those kinds of thinkings come from somewhere.
So if a person hates fallwell, and are glad he is dead, then one must also be glad that his family is suffering.
How in the hell does that follow? We're glad he's dead because he can't do any more harm this way, not out of spitefulness (mostly x.x). We wouldn't be glad if he were alive and being tortured at length. Why would we be glad that his family were?
I wonder who is going to replace him.
Another one's just found out it was all bullshit.
Goodness, I thought this was a science blog!
If I recall correctly one of the critiques leveled at the late Rev. Falwell was his lack of compassion and tolerance.
While I am in sharp disagreement with many of the late Rev. Falwell's views and the way he expressed him, I am apalled at the comments I see here. The comments posted here appear to show that nastiness, incivility and hypocrisy are not the exclusive province of Christian fundamentalists. It appears that secular fundamentalists share many characteristics of those they disdain.
It's not that hatred and intolerance are wrong, it's who and what they're targeted at that makes the difference.
If you hate hatred and aren't tolerant of intolerance, while proclaiming that hatred and intolerance are inherently bad, you have a bit of a paradox. If you decry the shotgun and undisciplined use of such states, you don't.
I love that even people like you use 'fundamentalist' as a derogative. It's like when theists attack science by calling it a religion - the irony is simply so delicious.
Caledonian and Rob M. - Aren't you the little tin saints? Too bad you both weren't around in '45. You could have gone around shushing people after Hitler's suicide.
I love that even people like you use 'fundamentalist' as a derogative.
Caledonian, who do you think made "fundamentalist" a derogative? Hint: We weren't the ones whose life's work was organizing hatefulness and encouraging ignorance to facilitate rooking scared, naive and mostly poor people out of what little money they had, to pay for big houses, custom tailoring and the other accoutrements of our "ministry." We're not the ones who turned the Bible Belt into a con artists' equivalent of one of those enclosed game farms Cheney likes to hunt on. We're not the ones who spent the last three decades convincing the more gullible sector of a major religion that it was important for them to micromanage other people's private lives--through government force, if necessary.
(1) The comments here suggest that the idea that graves are not for dancing upon--whether they be the graves of Saddam Hussein, Ted Bundy, or Jerry Falwell--is not very popular among atheists. Is that right, or does PZ attract an unrepresentatively angry sample of atheists?
(2) The comments also seem to imply that the lump of atoms formerly known as Jerry Falwell, in some meaningful but perhaps ill-defined way, could have chosen to act otherwise than it actually did, in a way that, say, the ensemble of atoms in the air inside my office cannot. You're all free will atheists here? Or does your lack of free will give you no choice but to talk as if Falwell could have behaved better than he did, even if that isn't really true?
Jerry Falwell was a monster. I will not show respect to his kind.
Also, I am confused as to why death suddenly makes you immune to critisicm. Is the idea to make friends of the deceased even sadder, by insisting their lives will be so much worse without the person's prescence?
In my opinion, Baratos, criticism and insults are wasted on those who have deaf and or dead ears.
That, and many cultures hold a superstition that if a person talks too much about the recently deceased, they'll come back. Though, I must confess that the idea of a Reverend Zombie Falwell holds a morbid attraction...
I'm willing to say something nice about the dead:
I miss Frank Zappa.
I had no respect for him when he was alive. I have none for him now that he's gone. In a way, I have less, because he died without ever really seeing the hurt he caused people, and living to regret it.
I don't celebrate, but I feel no sorrow for him or his family.
Cheers.
#133
Wha? Perhaps if you could describe what a universe in which I have free will would look like, and then how that might differ from a universe in which I do not have free will, I can tell you which one I live in.
In the meantime, it appears to me that I make choices. It also appears to me that Jerry Falwell did too.
His were bad.
Here's the quote I was looking for:
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/05/15/jerry.falwell/
One week before his death, Falwell told CNN's Christiane Amanpour he needed at least 20 more years to accomplish his vision for Liberty University.
Falwell told the story of Hezekiah, who in the Bible asked to live for 15 more years.
"I'm praying the same prayer with an option to renew," Falwell said.
Falwell was adept at bringing out the worst in people. An effect that may not have been limited to his followers. Human beings tend to respond to hostility with reciprocal hostility and Falwell was nothing if not hostile to many people here.
Regardless, I'm not suggesting picketing his funeral - you'll have to call Fred Phelps for that. I'm just saying that we should remember him as he was, even though that's not a very flattering picture.
I can't speak for all atheists but I value truth quite highly - perhaps in some of the same ways as religious believers think about things they consider "sacred". I therefore harbor a certain amount of contempt for "polite" lies. Sometimes I hide this. Sometimes I don't. I often consider this a safe place to honestly speak my mind, even in a way that's outside the normal rules of politeness. I think that's valuable.
If there's no free will we'll have whatever conversations we're doomed to have, which will affect our actions in whatever way they're doomed to do. Conversation and, indeed, any "voluntary" action are rather meaningless in a non-free-will universe. Judging someone else's actions doubly so - you have no choice but to hold whatever opinion you hold of the conduct he had no choice but to engage in.
I choose not to think too much about predestination because it's a depressing subject (and unfalsifiable without inter-universal travel). Or should that be, I can't help not thinking too much about predestination? :)
My only regret is that he died before he could be caught in a Bakker/Swaggart/Haggardesque type scandal.
Heh, that's great. In fact, it reminds me of this thread from a while ago. Ajay has to add another item to the list.
You ask on national television for 20 more years to continue speaking in the lord's name... you get 20 days.
I can't wait to hear Pat Robertson's comments. If this had been a liberal, an atheist, whatever, he'd say "See what happens if you oppose God", but in this case he'll take the same sort of event and say "It was God's time to call him home". There is no evidence that cannot be interpreted in light of one's preconceived notions, if one really wants to.
I have to agree that this would be a very good idea, and I wish it was true.
I don't delight in the suffering of his family, and I recognize that they are greiving, but I'm frankly, glad that that unpleasant, bigoted asshole is finallly gone, he made thw world a better place...by dying. I'm not proud of it, but I don't know his family and thus, my faint consideration for their feelings isn't enough to overide the fact that Falwell was an asshole and the world is a beter place now he's dead.
Now I'm just waiting for Fred Phelps to die, then I will start writing letters to the UN trying to get an international holiday declared.
I'd rather see Dobson go first. Then Robertson.
Phelps is just a loudmouth crackpot with a tiny following and alot of bad press.
I'm afraid the concern trolls have been preemptively fed:
"One owes respect to the living. To the dead, one owes only the truth." -Voltaire
You managed to turn on a computer; you're smarter than that. Now, will someone please drag that fucking strawman outside and shoot it? O.o
"The evil men do always lives after them. The good is often interred with their bone"
Ramen.
I saw Jerry Falwell interviewed on TV a couple of months ago. He was whining about how his wife tried to keep him on his diet. He called her his "warden"! Really! The man humiliated his wife in front of a national television audience for trying to follow the scientific program that might have prolonged his life. Then he prayed to God for 15 more years. Interesting test of prayer versus science.
(And Jerry, if you're hearing a lot of happy tap dancing overhead, you might want to check with your grieving widow.)