Starbucks gets cozier with the DI

You've got to hand it to these guys -- they know how to spread their nonsense far and wide. Imagine how many unsuspecting Starbucks customers are now going to be exposed to the DI bacillus. It's not encouraging that Starbucks managament can't see the difference between an "opinion" and a flat-out lie. I suspect there's at least one DI/revisionist-history IDiot wingnut in the ranks of top Starbucks management; otherwise how would they even know about a loony like Wells?

If S'bux is desperate for good quotes and quotable people, maybe we could supply them with good, solid-science quotes.

but they admit that they invited these contributions from "notable contributors from various fields"

Someone needs to dig into this. In what sense do they consider Jonathan Wells to be "notable", and in which field?

Monado has a really good idea, IMO. It does seem like they are pulling quotes out from everywhere, and a lot of them are cringe-inducing. Maybe a solid Dawkins quote, or Feynman blurb, tactfully offered, could make its way onto a Starbucks cup and counteract the DI crap?

Here is my suggestion:

"I too can see the stars on a desert night, and feel them. But do I see less or more? ... It does not do harm to the mystery to know a little more about it. For far more marvelous is the truth than any artists of the past imagined it." - Richard Feynman

... and I suppose you can change the last part to read, "than any artists of the pasts, or creationists of the present imagine(d) it"

Maybe we should round up some more "alternative viewpoints" from "notable contributors" and send them Starbucks' way... I'm thinking Holocaust deniers, anti-vaxxers, perhaps a geocentrist or two? I mean, if you're going to spend the money to print bullshit on your cups, why not go for the bulliest of the bullshit you can find?

If I ever need to go into a franchise coffee place, I choose Dunn Bros; what I hate about Starbucks is their omni-presence his driven away the coffee shops and breakfast places that dotted main streets for decades. They managed to move the natural price of a cup of coffee from a manageable $1.35 to a confab of concoctions with coffee connections at prices one would normally associate with a light lunch.

I think that they are the Wal-Mart of coffee, with a twist of pretension added for good measure. Not for nothing did Christopher Guest stab at them in Best in Show and Mike Myers had his laugh at their expense in the 2nd Austin Powers movie.

But seriously, folks. Adding Jonathan Wells to Starbucks coffee cups? Can this mean that we will soon see quotes from Carrot-Top on the importance of eating our vegetables? When does the Exxon Chair get to run a quote on Global Warming?

When I can no no longer buy a bag of freshly ground coffee for the price of two mocha gelate double de-caffs, I might stop in their store for a sumatra, but I won't say "grande" if I want a large. But I don't need idiocy staring me in the face when I drink coffee. I have mirrors for that.

...

...

Here was my comment to Starbucks:

Oh, well hell. I LIKED Starbucks. But now I've just read about you whoring out your cups for a quote from that "intelligent design" shill, Jonathan Wells.

"Darwinism's impact on traditional social values has not been as benign as its advocates would like us to believe. Despite the efforts of its modern defenders to distance themselves from its baleful social consequences, Darwinism's connection with eugenics, abortion and racism is a matter of historical record, and the record is not pretty."

So now Starbucks coffee cups serve as billboards for lying propaganda against good science. As a mouthpiece for the enemies of good science in AMERICA.

There may be someone in your media department who thinks "any exposure is good exposure." While that may be true for banned books or bad-boy rock stars, it isn't true for companies that sell products like yours. I doubt if you'll get a single extra sale by fronting for anti-science phonies like Wells. The people who suck up his tripe are probably a very tiny percentage of the upscale demographic Starbucks targets.

On the other hand, the educated, intelligent people who DO frequent your stores in large numbers are actually capable of seeing the difference between true and false. And the importance of seeing the difference.

It's up to you, of course, what you put on your cups. Far be it from me to say you can't have all the quotes you like from religious leaders, politicians, philosophers, movie stars, rockers, rappers, comedians ... hell, even pedophile priests and convicted serial killers if you want.

But you won't get me back in there. I can live without a Starbucks Mocha Grande. What a lot of us can't live without, what I myself WON'T live without, is science and medicine unadulterated by creationist lies. It looks to me like you've revealed yourself as a willing front for those lies.

Because of this, as of today, you have one less customer. Plenty of other places to get coffee.

...

...

That the morons who run Starbucks think that Jonathan Wells is a competent commentator of Biology is further proof that an excess of coffee is an efficient way of killing brain cells.

Oops.

It is another interesting example of the DI's willingness to pursue oddball PR moves, though...and I have to say that I think it would be a good idea if scientists and scientific organizations were to do likewise. Hey, NCSE, you're a much better source of thought-provoking quotes and ideas than the creationists--why not contact Starbucks and send them a few thousand good quotes they can use?

Sorry, I have no idea how I missed that. I guess both PZ and Monado have the right idea...

Maybe you've been drinking too much coffee, too?
I suggest you switch to tea.

Jonathan Wells is a notable contributor to the Lying for Jesus field.

You'll get no sympathy from me, it's your own fault for throwing all that good tea into Boston Harbor all those years ago.

Hmmm...lots of coffee drunk in both the US and the Middle East, both hotbeds of extreme religiosity...a connection perchance?

Besides, how many people actually read their coffee cups?

Holy Crap!

I guess I had been ignoring this.

It's bad enough that they put everything in a paper cup.

I posted about this the other day, and after writing a compaint to Starbucks the response I got was essentially "Well, we just issued a pro-evolution/anti-ID David Quammen cup, so that makes things even. We'll just keep doing whatever we want and we'll consider posting your complaint on our website feedback area."

Take this, Starbucks!

I am absolutely ashamed and embarrassed to see that you have printed cups with "The way I see it" by "Dr." Jonathon Wells of the Discovery Institute. The DI is one of the most shameful things Seattle brings to the world. Their endless tirade against science and attempts to bring Christianity to the classrooms of public schools in America, a secular state not founded on religion, is nothing more than a disinformation campaign. By aiding and abetting their attempts to undermine science with religion, you have lost one faithful customer. I will never buy another Starbucks product unless you publicly retract this statement. The Discovery Institute, and "Dr." Wells in particular, are not experts in any field except that of lies and deceit. Seattle is a city full of educated, intelligent people, home to a great number of scientists and engineers. By spreading this trollop on cups emblazoned with your logo, you are associating Seattle not with the entrepreneurs and thinkers it has been known for in the past, but with a regressive and harmful vocal minority whose "free speech" is costing America a great deal of harm.

Well, Quammen's good!

Given the RCC's strong historical role in the creation and propagation of racism and its continuing role through its anti contraception doctrine in the propagation of back street abortion I find it amazing that a so called expert on religion should try to put the blame for these to activities onto Darwin's shoulders. As for Starbucks, I was never a customer of theirs and a will now certainly never become one.

What, Microsoft doesn't make the annoying-Seattle-area institutions list?

Well, Quammen's good!

I'm not going for the "teach both sides" trick.

Warning, Will Robinson! Warning! Warning! You're getting worked up about the kitsch quips printed on paper coffee cups. Yes, this one is stupid. I doubt it is the only stupid quip in the lot. The most important thing to Starbucks is the last syllable of its name. It's a business that sells coffee, sweets, and wireless access. The thought that geeks buying coffee will see that slogan and say, "oh, look at this stupid one," likely gives some PR person at Starbucks a small thrill. That is attention. That is branding. It's a win for the DI only because it's about the best they can hope to do. No, I don't want to see real science organizations competing with DI to get quips plastered in various commercial venues.

"these to activities" strike that "to"! No idea how that crept in?

People in the Pacific NW looking for a non-Starbucks non-ID left-of-center coffee shop should stop by Bipartisan Cafe, 7901 S.E. Stark St., Portland OR. Family-friendly, Stumptown coffee, homemade pie.

"Bipartisan" means the Democrats and another party to be named later, not including the Republican Party.

There are plenty of good reasons not to drink Starbucks, but this tempest in a teacup is not one of them.

Bipartisan Cafe MySpace

And they have wifi.

FYI, Seattle ranks #2 when it comes to coffee shops per capita. Anchorage, Alaska is #1, with 2.8 per 10,000 residents, compared to 2.5 for Seattle and environs. Except for Boulder, CO, the top 10 coffee cities in the US are all on the West Coast.

"I will never buy another Starbucks product unless you publicly retract this statement."

Starbucks didn't make the statement, Jonathan Wells did, a fact that is made abundantly clear on the coffee cup.

"Except for Boulder, CO, the top 10 coffee cities in the US are all on the West Coast."

Starbucks' corporate strategy was--with 20/20 hindsight--brilliant: Take west coast coffee culture and export a user-friendly version of it to the rest of the States . . . and now the world.

Starbucks treats its employees quite well . . . extremely well compared with, say, Walmart.

So I find this handwringing over the Wells quotation a bit pathetic.

By spreading this trollop

Sexy!

Most of the coffee shop owners I've talked to actually like Starbucks, for one specific reason -- they set the prices high enough to make it possible to make a profit selling coffee, even if you're a small operator.

John Emerson: The "Pacific NW" seems like kind of a wide area to promote the Bipartisan Cafe for, don't you think? :P A really great coffee shop in Portland is Ristretto on NE 42nd & Fremont. They roast their own beans in small batches, and the roaster/owner is just a goddamn coffee genius.

JohnEmerson: thanks for the tip on Bipartisan Cafe. We're moving to Portland in June (huzzah!) and are already collecting all the tips we can find on swell places to eat, drink and revel in wireless Internet access.

(My sweetie just popped his head in and said he'll go back to Starbucks when they start running Dawkins quotes on their cups.)

Well, I'm not a coffee drinker, but I'll take extra care to continue not drinking coffee at Starbucks.

Has anyone actually verified this beyond the original poster? This has all of the trappings of a hoax.

As best as I can tell, the quotes only go up to #219.

-Crow

The funny thing is that I would usually expect quotes on a coffee cup to be, at worst, hollow happy nonsense. This one is a smear on a respected scientist (not to mention a big fat lie by a bogus), which I think justifies any complaints about it. Let's see what happens if they put an anti-Einstein quote on their cups. "Einstein was a big poopy-head because he taught that everything is relative, which led to teenage sex and vandalism."

So if anyone does decide to send some pro-science quotes, make sure they're positive.

I just spend some time bombarding them with quotes from Bertrand Russell, Dan Barker, and Carl Sagan. If they get flooded with such quotes, they may decide that they've gotta post some of them. There's so much great material out there... Paine, Ingersoll, Gardner, Randi, Harris, Dawkins... pitch in, everyone! Give 'em your favorite quotes.

Here's what I sent in:
I feel obliged to complain strongly about this.
On your cups, you have the following quote:
"Darwinism's impact on traditional social values has not been as benign as its advocates[...] eugenics, abortion and racism is a matter of historical record, and the record is not pretty."

Dr. Jonathan Wells"
This is a far cry from an 'opinion'. These are all ugly lies. Darwin had nothing to do w/any of this. Darwin was no more racist than any man of his day, probably less so. Abortion has been w/us centuries prior to Darwin's day, and eugenics of a sort also has a long history prior to Darwin's theory.
In short, Wells is making an effort to spread a pack of dirty, dirty lies, and in the future, I suggest you folks do a bit more research before you release a 'word bite', as it were."

For those who think complaining about this is unwarranted -- how would you feel if Starbucks used these quotes? Do you think Starbucks would even dare to print them?

Religion is based, I think, primarily and mainly upon fear. It is partly the terror of the unknown, and partly the wish to feel that you have a kind of elder brother who will stand by you in all your troubles and disputes. Fear is the basis of the whole thing - fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death. Fear is the parent of cruelty, and therefore it is no wonder if cruelty and religion have gone hand-in-hand. --Bertrand Russell

How about someone more contemporary?

Religion is scarcely distinguishable from childhood delusions like the "imaginary friend" and the bogeyman under the bed. Unfortunately, the God delusion possesses adults, and not just a minority of unfortunates in an asylum. --Richard Dawkins

Or perhaps we should let the religious damn themselves with their own words?

Reason should be destroyed in all Christians. --Martin Luther

(Luther said a lot of things that we should find embarrassing, by the way.)I'm sure you all think it is OK until it is your ox getting gored.

Well, this is most timely--I'm hosting a workshop this coming weekend on developing evidence-based best practices guidelines for massage. People are arriving from all over the US and Canada, I've got the program and food menu set, and was just shopping around for coffee and tea on tap for three days.

I was actually planning to get it at Starbucks, but since the workshop is about a field's efforts in becoming more science-based, I'm not comfortable supporting attempts to undermine science--even off-handed throwaway ones like this, where if Starbucks had done a minimum of homework, they'd know how deceptive that quote is. I will make sure to communicate that fact to them, in case they are interested.

So, Tully's, Starbucks' loss is your gain.

Repeat: Has anyone verified this?

So far, everything I've seen is based on a claim from one forum post on another forum (linked in PZ's article). When one tries to follow the link to Starbucks' website that the original poster provided as "evidence," the promised evidence is not there. The quote in question is supposedly #224; the quotes on the starbucks website only go up to #219.

It seems very important to me that one verify these things before making a big stir about them. Otherwise we - as supporters of science in general and evolutionary biologists in particular - come off as looking like gullible, pitchfork wielding idiots willing to slander a company based on an unverified internet rumor. That's hardly good PR for our side.

So...does anyone have confirmation that they've used this quote? As soon as I see it, I'll write my own letter of complaint to Starbucks.

-Crow

Crow: "Repeat: Has anyone verified this?"

I learned of the quote being used through this UD post first, and after sending an irate e-mail to Starbucks I received two replies on the topic (I would reproduce them here but my e-mail is down for some reason; I'll do so as soon as it starts working again).

Like others have pointed out here, it appears Starbucks is trying to go the "Teach the Controversy" route by issuing quotes from Quammen and Wells simultaneously, but like others on this thread, I think that's utter BS and expressed that to the sales rep I was in correspondence with. It also seemed that Starbucks isn't about to issue a Dawkins, Sagan, Darwin, etc. quote cups because it seems like the quotes either need to be solicited by the company or submitted by interested parties and then approved, so I don't know how much good submitting quotes to them will do (although we certainly should call the company on their ID-friendly brain lapse).

"Christianity's impact on traditional social values has not been as positive as its advocates would like us to believe. Despite the efforts of its modern defenders to distance themselves from its baleful social consequences, Christianity's connection with genocide, intellectual suppression and racism is a matter of historical record, and the record is not pretty."

Joel
High school teacher and author of semi-witty comments

"For those who think complaining about this is unwarranted -- how would you feel if Starbucks used these quotes?"

"I'm sure you all think it is OK until it is your ox getting gored."

In the science vs superstition debate, we scientists are supporting the rational, evidence-based, grown-up point of view. So we ought to act that way, and not like fifth graders caught fighting during recess. ("But HE started it!")

It seems very important to me that one verify these things before making a big stir about them.

But they already did it with Wesley Smith's quote earlier. Not being a coffee drinker, I didn't really notice it at the time, and so I had forgotten about it when it came time to think about where to buy coffee and tea for this workshop.

In this post, PZ just reminded me that they had already chosen to associate themselves with anti-science; if they've done it again (as it seems, but pending confirmation, as you point out), that reinforces my willingness to boycott them--now that I'm actually buying coffee for once--but the first time was sufficient to establish the principle for me.

To Crow,

What do you need for substaniation? I could attempt to email you a phtograph of the cup in question. But, a good skeptic could claim it was photoshopped. Please go into a starbucks and buy a cup or ask to see a cup with the Way I see it #224 on it.

PZ rejoins:

For those who think complaining about this is unwarranted -- how would you feel if Starbucks used these quotes?

I think "silly" is the word I used. Bertrand Russell is one of my favorite philosophers. So I'm not all that thrilled about the idea of excerpting him on Starbucks coffee cups. I doubt he'd be thrilled, either. He wasn't a soundbite kind of writer. I think Luther more belongs there.

I'm sure you all think it is OK until it is your ox getting gored.

I guess that's one way of looking at my disenchantment with seeing Bertrand Russell aphorisms on Starbucks coffee cups.

If putting Russell on a coffee cup diminishes him, keep in mind that putting Wells in the same place exalts him.

There are plenty of good reasons not to drink Starbucks, but this tempest in a teacup is not one of them.

So, what would you consider a good reason not to?

notthedroids: "Says that Starbucks treats it's workers quite well, better than WalMart" not true.

In fact, Starbucks has a lower rate of *delivered* benefits for it's workers than Walmart.

see:

http://www.starbucksunion.org/node/1194

What do you need for substaniation?

Ideally, confirmation from Starbucks themselves, either by the quote showing up on their website or by holding said cup in my hand.

But I agree that the evidence is starting to pile up. Let me summarize. We've got:

(1) An anonymous poster who claims to have received emails from Starbucks, but cannot send them because "email is down"

(2) A claim on a website well known to be the epicenter of dishonesty on the web (Uncommon Descent)

(3) Circumstantial support based on the fact that Starbucks did use a previous quotation from a DI fellow, albeit one that did not directly reference evolutionary biology. (While this latter piece of evidence does make the claim plausible, it is also exactly the sort "sounds plausible" evidence gets many internet rumors/hoaxes started.)

---

I'm not saying that Starbucks isn't using the quotation. I'm just saying I sure wouldn't send off a paper to Nature based on this sort of evidence.

-Crow

I happen to think this would be a good counter-quote

"There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved."

I'm sure you can place it.

"So, what would you consider a good reason not to?"

Their drip coffee isn't very good.
Most of their drinks are chocabloc full of empty calories.
They are ubiquitous.
The atmosphere in their shops is prefab pseudo-artsy drek.
A high percentage of their clientele are annoying wads.
Local shops have more character and individuality.
They play their CDs in the shops (prefab pseudo-artsy drek).

Eugenics, as an effective social movement, started in Indiana and was founded by - ta-da - Protestant ministers!

See:

http://kobescent.com/eugenics/

and

http://www.historycooperative.org/cgi-bin/justtop.cgi?act=justtop&url=h…

My comment to Starbucks:

"As a long-time Starbucks customer, I was very disappointed to see that your company is printing material from the Discovery Institute as part of your "The Way I See It" campaign, specifically Dr. Jonathan Well's slanderous and false quote regarding the harmful impact of "Darwinism", as he chooses to refer to the mainstream of biological thought, on society. While Dr. Wells is, of course, welcome to his opinion, the ideas put forth by the Discovery Institute are rejected by virtually all mainstream scientists, and have been rightly rejected as non-scientific by US federal courts. I hope that Starbucks will either reconsider the platform they are giving to the Discovery Institute, or pair Dr. Wells' quote with a matching one from a flat-earth advocate to put it in good company."

Azkryoth:

So, what would you consider a good reason not to?

The price. Sometimes, when I'm in the mood to splurge, I'll pay a few dollars for a glass of good wine, or two fingers of single malt scotch. But for coffee?

But that's just me. ;-)

Just to clarify Crow, I'm hardly an anonymous commenter- I use my blog name "Laelaps" so it'll make it easier for other commenters to identify who I am, and I have a short bio up there.

I do appreciate your skepticism, however, and I would love to share the responses I got from Starbucks, but for whatever reason I've been getting 404 error messages back from Yahoo!Mail all day (I don't know if anyone else is having the same problem), so I haven't been able to get into it to get the e-mails for everyone.

Jake Tapper from ABC news also mentions the Wells cup in his ABC news blog here, if anyone cares to check it out. I tried finding Wells' cup on the official Starbucks page, but there is only a small sampling of quotes up and no full listing.

If it turns out to be a hoax you can just claim street theater.

Brian,

Apologies for the "anonymous poster" slight.

(Not that there's anything wrong with being an anonymous poster, mind you -- I prefer to keep things that way myself for a variety of reasons.)

I agree it is starting to look like this one is real. I don't know what to hope for, though. If it is real, that's terrible that Starbucks is putting this kind of idiocy on their cups. If it is not real, we end up looking silly...

Best regards,
Crow

Appropriate for the DI would the (inverted) Newton quote:

"If we seem to see not so far as others, it's because giants are standing on our shoulders"

Well, now we're in a bind... to protest Starbucks, we need evidence in the form of a physical cup - but to get our hands on one, we need to go in and buy it!
I suggest someone needs to dirty themselves just this once so we can get the evidence. A huzzah to the first person to link to a picture on their website. I've already been to Peet's today so I'm not getting any more caffeinated...

My new motto:

Discovery Institute loving fucks
Can get their joe at Starbucks.
I won't.

It would be nice to have Darwin (or PZ Myers, or whomever) quoted on coffee cups. The moral dilemma there is supporting paper cups. I mean, paper cups are OK for takeout, but normally should not be used inside the coffee shop. But wait, that's not the point I want to make.

The point is there is nothing wrong with promoting science (contra Russell, above, sorry Russell) and it should happen more. The reason the NCSE is not getting quotes on coffee cups and the DI is: DI has a 10 million dollar budget, NCSE has a 200,000 dollar budget. (Those figures may not be accurate but they are close).

I'm sure every one who comments on this site is an NCSE member, right?

Just in case your membership has run out, go here to join:

http://www.natcenscied.org/

Pete: Williamn Dembski has one on his site, of course.

Oh, and there is one on my site, but you can't read it, way way too small.

But what is really needed is one of those web-based make your own thingie applications, like for the church signs and the library cards, but for a starbucks cup.

The main reason not to drink Starbucks while in Seattle is that Caffe Vita exists.

The main reason to not drink Starbucks while in Minneapolis is that The Spy House exists.

It seems very important to me that one verify these things before making a big stir about them.
Well, if I receive an email saying "WTF are you talking about?", I will consider myself duly chastened.

Crow: It's real. Use Google, you will find dozens of reports, some with photographs.

Crow et al: by way of further evidence/hearsay I actually found myself drinking a cup of (not bad) coffee from a cup bearing this exact quote last week at a Starbucks in LA Airport (terminal 2 to be precise) and was surprised I hadn't seen outrage about it on this blog or others. I got a little riled up about it myself but because I had been up since 5am, and it was 8am by the time I got my coffee (3 hours without caffeine!) and was not looking forward to going from 80 degree weather back to freezing Minneapolis I just couldn't get too excited.

However it is a damned stupid quote. My wife - fairly religious - agreed that it is an inane and untruthful thing to say, and we discussed woozily that it would be just as easy to substitute "Darwinism" for several religions or extreme political ideologies.

My version of the quote: "Whenever someone says something powerful, someone else is going to fuck it up and create something evil blame the person who said the powerful thing in the first place."

A week late, but:

"Oh my God! They killed Starbuck!"

i filled out one of their comment things. in addition to suggesting Starbucks might find better material to provoke their presumably intellectual, elitist customers (me included, but i really don't know how well i or others qualify for "intellectual") into discussion, i recommended quotes from Satre and Dawkins relating to the existence of God. i thought that might stir things up more.

Their coffee is crap. Take it from a guy with an espresso machine on his desk at work and one at home and one-day turnaround from his local roaster of single-origine beans. and its quality has been in decline for years. Ask a starbucks employee for some roast-dated beans some time. Blank Stare.

Of course the odds are that Starbucks doesn't agree with Wells on anything that's actually controversial. I suspect that printing nonsense gets them noticed (like here), they have their disclaimer, and no doubt they can use the faux "equality" balance and point to quotes from "the other side". But tell us, Starbucks, what this "other side" is. Is it the side of science and scholarship which "also deserves its say"?

Wells is some "notable contributor" in some "field"? This field being flim-flam, how to make a career out of distorting science and working on character assassination? And what the hell is "Darwinism" anyhow? Perhaps it is some bizarre religion that IDiots and a few credulous fools on our side have virtually made up through their lack of science knowledge. But of course the impact of Darwin is mainly upon a scientific theory which has contributions from many scientists and whose achievements are primarily in the medical field, biological understanding, and notably in judicial and scientific phylogenetic reconstructions.

Surely we can await van Daniken's musings on the evils of mainstream archaeology, Velikovsky's revilings of statistical probabilities as applied to orbital mechanics, and Phillip Johnson's notable remarks on how science has made rules against the mention of the possibility of design in science (well, it was something like that). You know, ol' Hitler was a notable contributor in the field of fascist thought, Stalin a major contributor in socialist realism, and Saddam Hussein a major thinker in Iraqi torture. I'm sure they're all about as prone to contribute quotes of value to Starbucks, and surely knock-your-teeth-out dictators deserve as much cup-space at Starbucks as would-be theocrats and major contributors to anti-Enlightenment ideology deserve.

To be fair to Starbucks, they probably wouldn't know the difference between a "major contributor" to a "field" and a credentialed pro-slavery advocate, they'd probably just blithely follow the credentials and the seemingly authentic "think tank" evidence and print whatever nonsense they got from some hack Ph.D who couldn't think if Reverend Moon told him to think. Of course it's a loathsome practice, it's just that they're faking themselves out as enlightened and non-discriminatory printers of quotes, even as they abrogate all responsibility to enlighten the public with quotes from people who have thought beyond Rev. Moon's dogmas.

Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/35s39o

In case anyone is interested, I've posted the two e-mails I received from Starbucks about my complaint (one's a form e-mail, another is more specific) over at Laelaps. I expect many of the people that have been writing similar complaints will be getting form letters back during the next day or so as well.

Has anyone actually verified this beyond the original poster? This has all of the trappings of a hoax.

As best as I can tell, the quotes only go up to #219.

Since a poster has already written that he complained and got a response from Starbucks along the "Oh well, we're teaching the controversy" line, rather than the "We don't actually have that on our coffee cups" line, it's probably not a hoax.

Uncommon Stupidity also couldn't resist posting about it on their website.

Why not quote Darwin directly?
Darwin on Climate, Ch 3 O.S. 6th edition
"Climate plays an important part in determining the average numbers of a species, and periodical seasons of extreme cold or drought seem to be the most effective of all checks....The action of climate seems at first sight to be quite independent of the struggle for existence; but in so far as climate chiefly acts in reducing food, it brings on the most severe struggle between the individuals, whether of the same or of distinct species, which subsist on the same kind of food.

What would ExxonMobile have to say about that?

As far as the eugenics goes, that was championed by Francis Galton, Darwin's cousin - and the Galtons were a family of gun manufacturers and bankers, as opposed to the Darwin's background in medicine and science - which should explain a lot (bankers and gun manufacturers probably caused more wars than anyone else in the 20th century).... though Darwin's "Descent of Man" does include statements like this one:

"With savages, the weak in body or mind are soon eliminated; and those that survive commonly exhibit a vigorous state of health. We civilised men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the process of elimination; we build asylums for the imbecile, the maimed, and the sick; we institute poor-laws; and our medical men exert their utmost skill to save the life of every one to the last moment. There is reason to believe that vaccination has preserved thousands, who from a weak constitution would formerly have succumbed to small-pox. Thus the weak members of civilised societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man. It is surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to the degeneration of a domestic race; but excepting in the case of man himself, hardly any one is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed."

Oh dear... but don't forget that Darwin was an aristocrat (and a pigeon fancier), and was raised to believe in the superiority of the aristocracy, after all. However, ascribing all evolutionary theory to Darwin is like ascribing all physical theory to Newton or Maxwell. I always thought that Mendel was the better scientist (he did figure out genetics, after all, by painstaking experiment). Science moves on... (P.S. speaking of Newton, natural selection is not a 'force')

The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all your Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it
-- Omar Khayyam

"Christianity's impact on traditional social values has not been as benign as its advocates would like us to believe. Despite the efforts of its modern defenders to distance themselves from its baleful social consequences, Christianity's connection with torture, genocide and racism is a matter of historical record, and the record is not pretty." Would they print, this, do you think?

Haha Mr. Stowell, surely you jest... ;)

People DO read these things. and smaller minds take them at face value. And some of those who take it at face value vote.

Don't underestimate how stupidity spreads.

As for Starbucks, if I WERE a coffee drinker I wouldn't drink coffee there, mostly because I know too many employees and former employees who never got benefits, whose hours were always kept just below the level where they'd have to pay... Starbucks does NOT treat it's workers any better than Walmart, they just haven't attracted all the attention Walmarts has.

They've made a reputation of being hip and savvy and young... but are these quotes ANY of those things?

Here's my e-mail:

I was interested to learn that one of the quotes in your "the way I see it" series is from the eminent scientist Jon Wells. May I expect to soon see a quote from the eminent historian David Irving?

1. I never get the controversial cups. My quick surveys show most people ignore the stuff on the cups.

2. The cup quotes seem designed to start conversations; where were you guys last August? http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002455480_starbucks29m…

Or March two years ago? http://www.stpetersburgtimes.com/2005/03/25/Business/Coffee_with_steam…

3. There is something really sad imagining the board meetings in DI offices where they determined that, to advance their cause, they needed to put Jonathan Wells on Starbucks cups. Can you imagine have so little scientific, political or ethical gravitas, that it's a huge victory to be on a coffee cup?

but for whatever reason I've been getting 404 error messages back from Yahoo!Mail all day (I don't know if anyone else is having the same problem)

I can confirm that other Yahoo users have been complaining all day.

Starbucks according to Lore

Well, if I remember correctly, they used had some quote on their from a *gasp* gay person (or favorably about gay people? I can't remember), and there was such an outcry that those cups suddenly stopped being printed. Since there is already a precedent for only allowing cutesy quotes everyone agrees with ... a nice little outrage might even work.

For the allegedly pro-science chumps who wrote to Starbucks:

1) Do you think anyone at Starbucks actually reads those comments?
2) Does it make you proud to join the ranks of the homophobic evangelical Christians who protested the Armistead Maupin quotation?

Does it make you proud to join the ranks of the homophobic evangelical Christians...

Jonathan Wells is gay?

Although I haven't written to Starbucks, because I don't have any leverage at all (my nice cozy college down boasts far better coffee shops than Starsucks), I'll answer your questions.

Do you think anyone at Starbucks actually reads those comments?

Yes. Unless everyone who buys Starbucks is illiterate, then some people there are going to read what's handed to them.

Does it make you proud to join the ranks of the homophobic evangelical Christians who protested the Armistead Maupin quotation?

Unless they're converting to evangelical Christianity and starting to loathe gay people, then they haven't joined the ranks of the homophobic evangelical Christians, have they? If it weren't a coffee cup, but about two editorials in the newspaper--one favorable to gays and one full of idiocy about evolutionary biology--protesting the latter in a letter to the editor is not joining ranks with the former. It should be obvious why. If two groups have a penchant for protesting, it doesn't follow that they're united in their causes anymore than cats are dogs (or vice versa) because they're both mammals.

If it weren't for my supply of Starbucks gift cards, I'd never shop there. The inane bullshit on the paper cups is kind of a game of Russian roulette for the employees of the chain whenever I walk through the door.

These days, I give my coffee back and tell them to re-make it in a cup that doesn't insult my intelligence.

If you're interested, you can find good coffee from a place called Raven's Brew in Alaska. If driving or flying to Alaska isn't your choice method of buying coffee, you can order it off of their website. I highly recommend "Three Peckered Billy-Goat" and "Wicked Wolf".

Hey PZ, when you're in town, try the University Zoka. Great coffee, super baristas and free Wi-Fi. Its near UW, so its full of Mac zealots like yourself.

"You'll get no sympathy from me, it's your own fault for throwing all that good tea into Boston Harbor all those years ago." Yes, thats how Iced Tea was invented. Thank Democracy for that..

Where is that? I used to go to this fabulous little deli around the corner from my dorm that served an amazingly potent espresso. I haven't found a place quite as good since.

notthedroids:
For the allegedly pro-science chumps who wrote to Starbucks:
Oh, bite my ass.
1) Do you think anyone at Starbucks actually reads those comments?
Somebody must've read the Wells quote, no?
2) Does it make you proud to join the ranks of the homophobic evangelical Christians who protested the Armistead Maupin quotation?
I think there's a vast difference between speaking up about a bunch of lies, & freaking out over an alleged 'gay agenda'.
Maupin wasn't lying about anything, now was he?

Why is everybody so sensitive about this stuff, I like Starbucks coffee, maybe because I live in Hong Kong and can't get the stuff I'm used to. Really though it is just a quote and a stupid one.
What would you prefer they stick to their "its red again" style of trying to be utterly bland. At least they have some guts in the corporate world to add some spice and mix it up by displaying any opinions even if they are someone elses and stupid.

How many athiests have been on the cups? I think that's the point. Attack evolution... sure why not? religion? ummm... yeah.

Where is that?

University Zoka is in one of the mixed-use commercial/condo buildings that's popped up next door to University Village. There's also a Zoka near Green Lake, in Tangletown.

the more I read the quote, the more atheist it sounds, in a way. I see it as a religious person atacking a strawman because he has no other way to deal with the fact that he is losing his religion. So he clumps one anti-religious idea with some others and blames the one that he is having trouble dealing with. Which demonstrates how unfactual and completely faith based religion is, but everybody knows that. So, the quote, like religious people is utterly wrong demonstrating how wrong religion always is.
In fact, if I were a religious person I would be really upset about this quote because it would make me look so stupid.

Imagine if they quoted PZ like this:
"When I go, I'd figured the best plan would be to donate my body to science, or to be cremated...but now I'm thinking it would be really cool if crazed folk dug my body up, chopped it to bits, put a stake through it, and maybe paraded the head around town on a pike. I wonder if there is a funeral plan for that?" -Darwinist PZ Myers
while that is an awesome quote it could easily be misinterpreted.

A little off topic, but some guy at Boise State is upset with PZ:

But, the real kicker, and the grand finale of the evening, came when Fischer read a quote from University of Minnesota Biology professor Paul Myers regarding ID that reads: "'The only appropriate response should involve some form of righteous fury, much butt-kicking, and the public firing of some teachers, many school board members, and vast numbers of sleazy, far-right politicians.' I say, screw the polite words and careful rhetoric. It's time for scientists to break out the steel-toed boots and brass knuckles, and get out there and hammer on the lunatics and idiots." Just so everyone completely understands the situation, this Darwinist is calling for another inquisition, a new age of McCarthyism directed at proponents of ID.

The pro-ACLU crowd (which included some BSU biology professors) shocked me when they actually started clapping in support. Is this the face of tolerance and diversity? Is this the free exchange of ideas that is becoming of a metropolitan research university of distinction?

"Appropriate for the DI would the (inverted) Newton quote:

"If we seem to see not so far as others, it's because giants are standing on our shoulders""

Not Newton, although he used it, the original is from Bernard of Chartres.

Notthedroids, have you ever expressed A) agreement or B) *substantive* disagreement with PZ, on anything? You're sounding more and more like a WikiQuote file under "Concern Troll."

OK, OK I admit to running in for the occasional large Verona, black. Until this thread I didn't even know they had quotes--the li'l cardboard insulator sleeve completely obliterates them.

From Ike (comment #73):

though Darwin's "Descent of Man" does include statements like this one:

Erm, just to put the quotation in context, the next paragraph continues:

The aid which we feel impelled to give to the helpless is mainly an incidental result of the instinct of sympathy, which was originally acquired as part of the social instincts, but subsequently rendered, in the manner previously indicated, more tender and more widely diffused. Nor could we check our sympathy, if so urged by hard reason, without deterioration in the noblest part of our nature. The surgeon may harden himself whilst performing an operation, for he knows that he is acting for the good of his patient; but if we were intentionally to neglect the weak and helpless, it could only be for a contingent benefit, with a certain and great present evil. Hence we must bear without complaining the undoubtedly bad effects of the weak surviving and propagating their kind; but there appears to be at least one check in steady action, namely the weaker and inferior members of society not marrying so freely as the sound; and this check might be indefinitely increased, though this is more to be hoped for than expected, by the weak in body or mind refraining from marriage.
From "The Descent of Man", p168-9, The Complete Work of Charles Darwin Online

"Concern troll"? I had to look that one up. If not having a problem with Starbucks' inclusion of Wells' quotation among the rest, and laughing at the melodramatic e-mails sent to Starbucks, makes me a concern troll...

I think having the quotations on the coffee cups is rather clever. I respect their decision to include provocative material, even if (especially if) I don't agree with every last one. Unlike the oh-so-concerned Christian women who were offended by Maupin, and the oh-so-concerned commenters who were offended by Wells.

I saw the Wells quote (#224) on my Starbuck's cup about ten days ago. I sent them a feedback message urging them to stick to making coffee and avoid philosophy. I already had a policy of not reading the quotes (though I obviously slip up, being a compulsive reader), finding them mostly vacuous. Sending the feedback was a first for me but seeing Wells' name, and reading the stupid remarks, made me angry.

I also noticed another quote, #220, that had a more scientific view; but I can't remember what it was - I haven't had my venti drip today. The Starbuck's website does not list either #220 or #224; they stop at #219.

Starbuck's wants to be more than just a place that sells coffee; they want to be a center of community, or something. A while back I answered a Starbuck's survey as part of registering a gift card; I was asked if I found my visits uplifting. I answered that I just go there to buy coffee, not be uplifted. Though now that I think about it that could be a technical term for a caffeine high; or have something to do with David Brin's 'Uplift' series.

I plan to continue to buy coffee a t Starbuck's. The coffee at the bagel shop next door is bad and just as expensive. The free coffee here at work is for emergencies only.

Cranky in L.A.

My message to Starbucks:

Starbucks, I thought we were cool. I defended you to people. "Starbucks may be a big corporation, but they've got pretty good environmental record!" I said. "And they sell fair trade coffee!" I said. But now, Starbucks? I don't know if we can be together anymore.

You see, Starbucks, I caught you cavorting with Jonathan Wells of the Discovery Institute. Oh, sure, you claim it was innocent. "The opinions put forth by contributors to 'The Way I See It' do not necessarily reflect the views of Starbucks," you said. But I know what I saw, Starbucks. And as much as I love your delicious chai lattes, I love science and integrity more.

You see, Starbucks, the Discovery Institute peddles lies. They ignore pesky things like the nature of science because it doesn't fit in with their worldviews. They think evolution = Darwinism and Darwinism = materialism and materialism = the source of all evils in the world. This just isn't true. Ask any scientist. Why would you give them a platform for their dopey ideas?

Starbucks, I think you and I are going to have to take a break. Maybe we can work things out, but you have to show me that you're willing to change. Soliciting some quotes from real scientists and philosophers of science would be a good start.

Starbucks, we've had such good times together. Don't throw it all away!

well, i put my comment in and am including Starbucks' reply below. the comment was a complaint about Wells and Smith, and pointing out the tripe of their ideas. i suggested that if they wanted to be controversial and "balanced", they should also post statements from Satre and Dawkins denying the existence of a deity. oh well. still do like their brew, however expensive. and it was nice for them to reply back within a day.

Thanks for taking the time to write about "The Way I See It." Starbucks has long been dedicated to creating a unique "third place" between home and work. We also draw on the centuries-old tradition of the coffeehouse as a place to gather, share ideas, and enjoy delicious beverages. We see this program as an extension of the coffeehouse culture -- a way to promote open, respectful conversation among a wide variety of individuals. [unrenderable new paragraph] Because this program is meant to encourage discussion and the exchange of ideas, your feedback is very important. In fact, it's a vital part of the conversation. [unrenderable new paragraph] I can understand that you do not appreciate it when political speech that you disagree with appears in "The Way I See It." Our goal with "The Way I See It" is to create a balanced forum for discussion. To do this, we have invited authors representing a wide range of views. Not everybody we have invited has chosen to participate, but we will continue to make this program an inclusive one. [unrenderable new paragraph] We also invite all customers to contribute their own quotes for consideration, and to give us feedback in our "letters to the editor" section on the website. If you would like to contribute a quote for the cup, or to respond to a particular cup you've seen, please feel free to do so! [unrenderable new paragraph] Sincerely, [unrenderable new paragraph] Benjamin J., Customer Relations Representative, Starbucks Coffee Company

i think we should load them up with Dawkins quotes.

I got a email back from them, but it looks pretty boilerplate:

Rich,

Thanks for taking the time to write about "The Way I See It." Starbucks has long been dedicated to creating a unique "third place" between home and work. We also draw on the centuries-old tradition of the coffeehouse as a place to gather, share ideas, and enjoy delicious beverages. We see this program as an extension of the coffeehouse culture - a way to promote open, respectful conversation among a wide variety of individuals.

Because this program is meant to encourage discussion and the exchange of ideas, your feedback is very important. In fact, it's a vital part of the conversation.

I can understand that you do not appreciate it when political speech that you disagree with appears in "The Way I See It." Our goal with "The Way I See It" is to create a balanced forum for discussion. To do this, we have invited authors representing a wide range of views. Not everybody we have invited has chosen to participate, but we will continue to make this program an inclusive one.

We also invite all customers to contribute their own quotes for consideration, and to give us feedback in our "letters to the editor" section on the website. If you would like to contribute a quote for the cup, or to respond to a particular cup you've seen, please feel free to do so!

Sincerely,

Benjamin J.

Customer Relations Representative

Starbucks Coffee Company

"I can understand that you do not appreciate it when political speech that you disagree with appears in 'The Way I See It.'"

That's the problem, isn't it? Those statements are seen as a political opinion rather than JUST PLAIN WRONG. Not unlike "we may or may not be contributing to global warming", now that I think about it. Reality is not an opinion!!!

Next up: One or two pithy quotes from Mr. Hutton Gibson.

alas, i've been boilerplated. and Mr Benjamin J is a computer program.now, that's what i call personal service ...;-)

Reality is not an opinion

reminds you of that "We're an empire now. We create our own reality", don't it?

It appeared a longtime ago, but this was also on a Starbucks cup:

The Way I See It #14
1.6 million years ago a youth died in Africa. His body was swept into a swamp. In 1984 his bones were painstakingly excavated to reveal a species on the brink of becoming human. All people on earth have one thing in common. We share a single African ancestor; the same as this young boy.
-- Dr. Louise Leakey
Paleontologist and National Geographic Explorer-in-Residence. She is currently working in Kenya.

And this is the David Quammen cup a few people have referenced.

The Way I See It #220
Evolution as described by Charles Darwin is a scientific theory, abundantly reconfirmed, explaining physical phenomena by physical causes. Intelligent Design is a faith-based initiative in rhetorical argument. Should we teach I.D. in America's public schools? Yes, let's do it - not as science, but alongside other spiritual beliefs, such as Islam, Zoroastrianism and the Hindu idea that the Earth rests on Chukwa, the giant turtle.
-- David Quammen
Author. His books include The Song of the Dodo and The Reluctant Mr. Darwin.

Wow, I got something completely different:

"Thanks for taking the time to comment on "The Way I See It." Because the goal of this program is to encourage discussion and exchange ideas, your contribution to the dialogue we are trying to foster is not only more than welcome -- it's vital.

I'm writing to see if you would be interested in having your response posted on our web site. As part of the "Way I See It", we have a "letters to the editor" section where customers can respond to the things they've read in our program. (You can see previous letters at http://www.starbucks.com/retail/thewayiseeit_letters.asp.)

If you would like your response to be considered for posting, I need to ask you a few things.

First, I need your permission to post. I'd also like permission to make any necessary grammatical corrections to the piece, which I would send to you before posting.

Second, I need some contact information (an address and phone number) to verify your identity. Your contact information will not be posted, nor will it be used for Starbucks marketing purposes.

I must explain there is no compensation involved in this, beyond the honor of having your response posted. Also, your permission does not necessarily guarantee that your letter will be posted -- it simply moves it into the queue for consideration. We will publish as many letters as we can on the web, but due to the volume of responses we can't publish
everything we receive.

Please let me know if this will be agreeable to you. I hope to hear your response soon!
Thanks and all regards,
Thomas Prowell
Copy Manager
Starbucks Creative Group."

Unlike the oh-so-concerned Christian women who were offended by Maupin, and the oh-so-concerned commenters who were offended by Wells.
For the record, notthedroids, I wasn't offended by Wells' opinion, I was offended by the load of lying crap that was more political window dressing than factual 'word-bytes'.
When lies are told, they should be debunked and denounced ASAP, otherwise they take on the quality of a snowball gaining mass & momentum down a glacial mountain.
If a lie goes unchallenged, it becomes 'silence=assent'. Regardless if it's an 'opinion'.

Why is everybody so sensitive about this stuff, I like Starbucks coffee, maybe because I live in Hong Kong and can't get the stuff I'm used to. Really though it is just a quote and a stupid one.
It seems like a tiny thing, true, but how many tiny things get stuck in the gray matter? It's a cumulative effect, like a religious motto on the money, or in the pledge. Prior to actually researching the history, I used to think that the US was founded on xtian principles. Now I see it as a stupid hypothesis, but the little items tally up, until the grand sum of them are overwhelming. Stuff like this is casuistic, it only seems okay until you start probing it. Sadly, that's how the average citizen culls data.

Here's what I find annoying about some of the responses here: people are unhappy that anyone is opposing the DI quotes. They say it's trivial. They say we're being too sensitive. They're basically telling all the science people to suck it up and live with it.

But what, exactly, have people here proposed doing about it?

Protest marches on the Starbucks headquarters? Firebombing the local Starbucks? Hanging a barista from the nearest lamp post? No, nothing like that.

They've written letters arguing against the quotes on the form provided by Starbucks. They've said they will buy their coffee from alternative stores. That's all.

All you concern trolls: next time you want to whine about atheists making civil protests through reasonable channels, I have two suggestions for you.

1. Make a constructive suggestion about other strategies. The logic of telling us that we shouldn't use feedback forms or that we cannot take our custom where we choose escapes me.

2. Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and talk to your colon instead.

Yeah, I'm looking at you, notthedroids. Wanker.

My, I seem to have struck a nerve.

And I have discovered the true meaning of "concern troll", namely, "anybody who disagrees with me."

We all pretty much disagree with you. Happens to dumbasses like yourself.

Incorrect.

Like I said, wanker, make a constructive suggestion. Do you think Starbucks' feedback forms shouldn't be used? Do you object to people deciding to buy their coffee elsewhere? What's your gripe?

And since you seem incapable of doing anything but griping that we dare to find fault with a great corporate institution, follow step #2: head, ass, colon.

It bothers us because people *believe* this crap, especially when bold-faced lies are presented as "opinions." It makes our job as scientists that much harder, because many more people are exposed to Starbucks cups than to the latest papers in Science or Nature.

Actually, people are going to believe moronic things regardless of what's on the side of the coffee cup. What bothers me is the prospect of spending $4 of my relatives' hard earned money (like I said, I wouldn't shop there if not for my gift cards) on some kind of half-cocked diatribe that is only marginally more intelligible than the gibberish spewed during a Hovind gallop.

It's kind of like going to a private military academy. "Here's my money, now insult me!" Obviously that's what gets notthedroids turned on, but I'm more the sadistic type.

http://www.ravensbrew.com/NewFiles/shopping.html

"At least one other very nice thing about that town is that there are plenty of alternatives, practically on every street corner, and you don't have to give Starbucks your custom. We won't."

Good, anyone who wants a decent cup of coffee need to avoid Staryucks...their coffee sucks plain and simple.

I would have advised you to go and try Coffee Messiah..sadly they closed down last year.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/4HRNtzICDUeHQ25HaawhPw

And if you're ever in Colorado Springs, get you coffee at The Boulder Street Coffee Shop on the corner of E Boulder St and N Tejon St. That's where Dawkins was in "The Root of All Evil?"

I also used to deliver bagels to them, and can generally vouch for their coffee, if not for the condition of the carpeting.

Starbucks has long been dedicated to creating a unique "third place" between home and work.

That kind of thing creeps me out.

Boycott Starbucks because they pay employees crap and becuase they oppose unionization:

One HMS Host employee at a Starbucks in Chicago's O'Hare International Airport spoke in a 2005 news release issued by the union: "I'm trying to save enough money to bring my 4-year-old son from Ecuador to live with me, but with the wages I make, I don't know when I will be able to see him again," said Ambar Vera.

After a year-and-a-half on the job, she made $6.55 an hour and paid $140 a month for health insurance.

Unions that have negotiated contracts with Starbucks say it is difficult.

"Despite all their rhetoric of being progressive, they're as anti-union as a McDonald's or Wal-Mart," said John Bowman, a national representative for the Canadian Auto Workers, which represents about 75 Starbucks employees in the Vancouver, B.C., area.

"They go on ad nauseum about how wonderful an employer they are because they're paying an extra $1.50 an hour," he said. "For what they make, they could pay an awful lot more, but they have a lot of employees convinced they aren't worth more."

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2003505497_uni…

Wal-Mart keeps their "We're not anti-union, we're pro-associate" video propaganda locked in a safe when it isn't being used.

Not kidding.

People believe this stuff!?! you got to be kidding, do you think that any Atheists read that and go damn I better get back to sucking up to God or even and Christians read it and say "I knew it, God is my Holy Savior"
The quotes are tongue and cheek, meaning they are meant to provoke a reaction, and they worked in this case.

The Wells quote is so stupid it is like parading around someones dirty underwear, it is embarassing for the person who crapped it out.

"Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and talk to your colon instead." -PZ Myers
Now that is quote I would like to see on a Starbucks Cup.

If not having a problem with Starbucks' inclusion of Wells' quotation among the rest, and laughing at the melodramatic e-mails sent to Starbucks, makes me a concern troll...

Starbucks could have used a civil quote favoring ID to match the civil quote from Quammen. That would have been acceptable although silly and anti-science. Instead we get the Protocols of the Elders of Darwinism. I have to wonder why a scientist *wouldn't* have a problem with that?

"And since you seem incapable of doing anything but griping that we dare to find fault with a great corporate institution, follow step #2: head, ass, colon."

You're cute when you get angry and act like a 10th grader.

notthedroids, I haven't been getting the impression that anyone here is angry with you. The impression I'm getting is that they're reading your faulty concern troll dreck and shaking their heads in pity before letting you know that you're somewhat stupid. The thing is, because you're somewhat stupid and might miss the point otherwise, they have to do it in a blunt fashion. That shouldn't be confused with anger.

I'm glad I could clear that up for you.

Carry a felt-tip pen with you.

When you have finished your drink, underline or circle the offending statement and then, on an adjacent part of the cup, write "This is a God-damned lie."

Then leave it on the table for someone else to find and read. Even if it's only Starbucks staff, you may be able to rescue a vulnerable mind.

You know alot of times this website is used to promote how stupid people really are. Ironically, everybody is looking in mirror right now because the quote was meant to provoke and what happened you got provoked.
Why, because in your self-righteous battle against religion you've all joined the ranks of the Oh-So sensitive religious people who have heard something they didn't like.

Yes, the quote was stupid, is Starbucks stupid for using it, maybe, but Starbucks is not a science class. What do you want diagrams of cell structures and calculus questions on the mugs. My God, Starbucks is a haven for people who want some drivel to talk about, so they fuel the fire with some quotes.

I've got an idea lets get every major world corporation to declare what philisophical belief system they will promote and that way we will never have to be faced with something we don't like again.
Perhaps a McMuslim on one corner and a HinduMart on the other with a ChristianityBucks smack in the middle. We also might as well kick all the non-atheists out of the schools because they don't follow the facts given anyway.
Yeah, I know Wells started it with his quote but if you get offended from every little injustice, it just seems so insecure.

Read the quote and laugh or discuss it like they intended, but don't charge Starbucks with the ability to educate or inform because they do not possess it.

You're cute when you get angry and act like a 10th grader.

Oh the irony. I've yet to see you post anything substantive on this blog. You sure do like to whine and act superior (at the same time!), though.

Why, because in your self-righteous battle against religion you've all joined the ranks of the Oh-So sensitive religious people who have heard something they didn't like.

John W., your post is not without merit, and I agree that the anti-religion rhetoric can get shrill at times, but like the other dissenters on this thread you fail to make the distinction between "an opinion with which one disagrees" and "damaging lie."

Arguing about whether or not Jennifer Hudson deserved to win an Oscar is one thing. This is another. There's a culture war going on (or haven't you heard?) The anti-science side has lies, distortion, and the mantle of piety on its side, and it's working tirelessly to undermine the public perception of the validity of one of the most important scientific theories we have, and to drag the quality of public science education down with it. And this is just part of a larger campaign to turn the USA into a Christian Nation.

Read the quote and laugh or discuss it like they intended, but don't charge Starbucks with the ability to educate or inform because they do not possess it.

I'm all for laughter and discussion - who isn't? (Hands, please?) But I think you've overlooked that what Starbucks does possess is the ability to misinform and, intentionally or not, they have exercised it. Condemning Starbucks as Evil is a gross overreaction, of course, as would be picketing and throwing rocks, but voicing an objection and requesting a correction is not.

I admit that a coffee cup is a small thing, but the cumulative effect of a million coffee cups is not. The little things add up. Evolution itself serves as a nifty metaphor for what's happening here. Changes in the zeitgeist are typically very small, but they're incremental, and one side is pushing very hard in the wrong direction. And you're telling the people who legitimately care to sit down and shut up. Why?

P.S. LOL @ McMuslim... say hello to Ron al-Dee?

So, for the IDers, coffee cup = peer-reviewed literature, right?

Yup. After all, I've peered at the bottom of a coffee cup many times, and I'm sure they have, too.

who couldn't think if Reverend Moon told him to think.

Quote of the week!

We're hoping to take a vacation and visit Seattle this summer. At least one other very nice thing about that town is that there are plenty of alternatives, practically on every street corner, and you don't have to give Starbucks your custom.

That's one of the things I liked about Seattle when I visited: not having to settle for Starbucks. The only place I couldn't find a good cuppa was at the top of the Space Needle, so you may want to plan accordingly.

Another reason to avoid them is that, according to a friend of mine, Starbucks charges for wireless access, but most other coffeeshops don't.

Here's the response I got from Starbucks after sending them a chatty little missive. I particularly like how Starbuck refers to this as "political speech."

Thanks for taking the time to write about "The Way I See It." Starbucks has long been dedicated to creating a unique "third place" between home and work. We also draw on the centuries-old tradition of the coffeehouse as a place to gather, share ideas, and enjoy delicious beverages. We see this program as an extension of the coffeehouse culture - a way to promote open, respectful conversation among a wide variety of individuals.

Because this program is meant to encourage discussion and the exchange of ideas, your feedback is very important. In fact, it's a vital part of the conversation.

I can understand that you do not appreciate it when political speech that you disagree with appears in "The Way I See It." Our goal with "The Way I See It" is to create a balanced forum for discussion. To do this, we have invited authors representing a wide range of views. Not everybody we have invited has chosen to participate, but we will continue to make this program an inclusive one.

We also invite all customers to contribute their own quotes for consideration, and to give us feedback in our "letters to the editor" section on the website. If you would like to contribute a quote for the cup, or to respond to a particular cup you've seen, please feel free to do so!

Well, I don't drink coffee, but I will mention this to my friends, lovers, colleagues and relatives who do ...

Possibly moot, but for those asking if this was a hoax, #224 is coming up on my screen and it is indeed that Wells quote. I think you have to refresh the screen until it hits a number near 224, then go forward or backward to get to it. If you start too far away, the numbers reset before you get to 224.

http://www.starbucks.com/retail/thewayiseeit_default.asp?act=1&last=3

Just stumbled upon this via flickr's "Explore" thingy.

Here's a pic of a starbucks cup with a David Quammen quote:

http://flickr.com/photos/cpurrin1/433843536/

"Evolution as described by Charles Darwin is a scientific theory, abundantly reconfirmed, explaining physical phenomena by physical causes. Intelligent Design is a faith-based initiative in rhetorical argument. Should we teach I.D. in America's public schools? Yes, let's do -- not as science -- but alongside other spiritual beliefs, such as Islam, Zoroastrianism, and the Hittite idea that Earth rests on Chukwa, the giant turtle."

Er, I see post #14 refers to the Quammen cup, so I guess I'm a tad late to the party. So it goes.

who couldn't think if Reverend Moon told him to think.

Quote of the week!