He got the story backwards

I don't know if I qualify as a "liberal", but we should be royally [ticked] off.

I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore!

Any suggestions on how to stop taking it would be appreciated.

Speaking of blogs, incompetence and corruption. . . either I'm seeing all politics through ID-colored glasses, or else something important's been left out. Weren't Ben Domenech and George Deutsch both basically nailed by bloggers?

I mean, hatred is a universal property, and the left-right axis is becoming progressively more of a hindrance in our modern-day Kulturkampf. (Jingoistic neocons and salt-of-the-earth libertarians voting for the same people? Tell me that's legitimate.) There might be a news story in making sense out of the screechings from the knuckle-dragging, morally bankrupt peanut gallery; someone should also write down the times when the Internet actually performed a useful error-correcting function.

"In the angry life of Maryscott O'Connor, the rage begins as soon as she opens her eyes and realizes that her president is still George W. Bush."
Hey I feel this way to and I don't blog, just read them. So what about an article on the angry lefty blog readers, we're people to you know.

Although this is certainly a story of media laziness - they wanted to tell a story of angry leftists, and went looking for confirmation - I think we also have to acknowledge that "the right is angry, mean, and ape shit" just isn't news. It's "dog bites man", which might generate 30 seconds of local interest in a particularly egregious example, but other than that is going to get passed by.

Better anger than despair.

weren't ben domenech and george deutsch both basically nailed by bloggers?

i also added on another forum, jeff gannon and (unfortunately) mary mapes.

as usual, they tried to ignore us, and when that didn't work, now they are trying to marginalize us.

personally, i agree with oscar wilde: the only thing worse than getting a bad write up in the washpost is not getting any write up in the washpost.

I like the Mahablog response the best.

Sorry, here is the link.

As others have pointed out, The Post was recently pantsed in public by Left-esque bloggers who thoroughly documented the plagiarism of their right-wing hired blogger, Ben Domanech, who also had other deficits that shouldn't have got past HR--lying about his educational credentials and slim clippings (especially any that he'd written himself). In fact, his sole qualification seemed to have been nepotism.

Anyway, they're trying to un-humiliate themselves with this hatchet job.

The Post is aimed at (and edited by) the most insular, uooer-class never-leave-the-Beltway types. That's not me, so I don't know if the clumsiness of this effort is going to go over.

Sorry, that's "upper-class."

The subtext of that story: Liberals are bad housekeepers who leave dirty ashtrays around then we smoke in front of our kids, then we smoke some more, then we startle innocent children with our vitriolic hate. Did we mention that she smokes? And while her kid is home too?

Note how the article mentions smoking again and again and again as a way to stigmatize Maryscott. Only those who would dare criticize Bush could have such disgusting and dangerous habits! Bush supporters are clean-livin' church-types who actually breathe carbon monoxide and fart pure, sweet O2.

Some winger asshole has already linked to the story, defining it as yet more proof of "moonbattery". Thanks, WaPo, guess you got us back. If we had any respect left for you, this clumsily-executed retribution might actually sting a little.

BronzeDog

Only way -- use anger to motivate to get smarter.

The left is being flushed down the toilet by the right. That's a fact. Maybe, just maybe, that's a clue the Left is doing something wrong. Something very, very, fundamental. Wrong. Wrong. WRONG.
.

To everyone else

Who gives a shit!

Your anger and disgust is wasted energy. See my note to BronzeDog. It's one article among thousands. While you bitch, here's what the right does.

The far right's use of psychomarketing in politics, for example, includes carefully analyzing how the media works and devising ways to leverage that knowledge; from using talk radio and blogs to put ethical pressure on political coverage; to spreading propaganda and lies as news media columnists, who aren't fact-bound like reporters; to using ratings competition to skew away from issue discussion and into shouting matches; to the White House releasing negative environmental news to the press on Friday afternoons, so when the full media staffs return to work on Monday, it's old news and not covered. This type of process manipulation is well researched, well thought-out, and expertly executed. No one on the left seems even to think this way, which in itself has gone on so long it's also become old, boring news.

See the difference?

Get smart.
.

Listen Skookum, just because I posted a few words on the Wapo's pathetic hatchet-piece, the suject of this thread, doesn't mean that I don't pay attention to all the other issues.

Chill out, I'm on your side. I got plenty of energy to waste. (Plus, telling people to get smart is wee bit condescending.)

Also, we've been onto "The Friday Afternoon News Dump" for years. That's an administration, not media whore, outrage.

>Some winger asshole has already linked to the story, defining it as yet more proof of >"moonbattery".

The whole article - which appeared front page, above the fold, in the high-circulation Sunday paper - is a disaster of the first order, not just for liberal blogs, but for Democrats and the left as a whole. I'm sure it will be used by corporatists, theocrats, misogynists - the whole Radical Right and its attendant wingnuttosphere - for years, if not decades, to come - whenever they need to trot out a caricature of a nutty, frothing, ineffectual, unlikeable, unwomanly, unmotherly leftiist to parade in front of voters. They couldn't have invented a better one, frankly.

The last time I checked, this article was the **#1** most emailed article on the WaPo Website. Does anyone doubt that it will be featured prominently on Rush Limbaugh's next show? Or that her one statement on where the Catholic Church should wind up -

"I have a special place in my heart . . . a burning, sizzling, putrescent place where the guilty suffer the tortures of the damned"?

-will make every Democratic politician's job harder, come the 2006 and 2008 elections? (And I speak as an atheist.) It could well cause us to lose elections.

Her portrayal in the article - and the associated portrayal of lefty bloggers as people who sit around and get angry and do nothing constructive - also represents a profound insult to the engaged and thoughtful activists in the Kos community and Leftwing blogosphere in general who have been working so hard for change. She discredits us all, and that is probably why none of the major political bloggers, to my knowledge, has offered her public support. They have remained conspicuously silent.

This is NOT the WaPo's and the writer's fault. They were doing what any news outlet does, and it's common knowledge that that's what they do. (If she didn't know, she should have asked someone.) The blogger really screwed it up - screwed it up for us all - and she has no one to blame but herself. If you don't know how to behave in front the of the press, you should keep you mouth shut and let someone else represent.

Dawn

Dawn's criticism is all the more ironic when you realize that MSOC is ALL about rejecting media-management strategies.

BronzeDog, if you are not a liberal, now is a good time to become one.
We have recently purchased several million black helicopters, complete with mind-reading beams and weather control technology, from the UN, who has been forced to sell these fine machines at below market prices, in order to finance enormous debts resulting from ruthless environmental regulations.
As a result, we are need of Black Helicopter Crewmen. You might qualify!

might as well go around "rejecting" the weather. and if she does sincerely reject them then she should do us all a favor and stay the hell away from the media.

The problem with rage as a "strategy" is that it isn't: it merely clouds your judgment and makes you less effective at whatever it is you are trying to do. it's okay - and sometimes called for - to *act* enraged but you should never *feel* rage. Think Michael versus Sonny Corleone and you get the idea.

This assumes that you're using the Mob as your role model. If you're using someone more enlightened, like Gandhi or the Dalai Lama, you know that neither showing nor feeling rage is appropriate. Nor are they effective - the Dalai Lama (who's got a lot more to be angry about than MSOC, let's not forget) says that rage does nothing against your enemy, but ultimately destroys you.

The fact that others look up to MSOC as an example and role model is galling. so is the fact that MSOC and her defenders are painting her in this episode as (a) righteous, (b) victimized, or (c) both. She's neither. She f*ed up and she won't admit it. (I would feel much more sympathy for her right now if she would - and if she apologized.) The thread lead on her blog right now is about "the courage to be foolish." Acting out of reflexive, dumb rage - especially at a crucial moment - is the *opposite* of courage.

Dawn

Dawn, your willingness to believe that the article's portrayal of Ms. O'Connor is anything but wholly contrived anti-liberal propaganda is exactly what the writer was counting on.

He wasn't even trying to be subtle about it.

Since when were the Democrats left wing?

Since when were the Democrats left wing?

Since everything to the left of Attila the Hun became the angry, shrill, extreme lunatic left.

And Michael Moore is fat.

Dan, honey, of course I don't believe the writer's slant on MSOC. I know he went in there with an agenda and a bias. Maybe it was to get back at the left blogosphere for the Ben Domenech takedown. Maybe it was more general.

As an ex-journalist, I can promise you this, however: that not in his wildest dreams did he ever envision having such a willing collaborator in his endeavor as MSOC turned out to be.

Just read MSOC's response on Daily Kos - a self-serving, self-justifying rant that doesn't even begin to look at the larger implications of her actions. Basically, in MSOC's world, if she feels like doing something, she's entitled to do it. The only thing she apologizes for is getting her husband's job title wrong - like anyone cares about that. In her intransigence, unwillingness to admit mistakes, and general egocentricity she reminds me of no one more than her nemesis GWB.

Dawn

Ras_Nesta

I'll take your points, and apologize.

The ineffectiveness against the right's tactics gets me really frustrated at times, frustrated as were many posters here probably. When rushed as I was, my brain is a better repository than is the web.

My media paragraph was not intended to rag the media; I'm an ex-journalist. I meant to educate many who don't know and to ask where the counter-campaign is.

The frustration comes not only from observing the national level but every level, here at SciBlogs also. It's pretty much like Dawn's. And Dawn is 100% correct in her analysis. The behavior is self-centered, destructive to the efforts of many people, and reinforces many elements of the the right's campaign. The more I see of this behavior from the left the more mystified I am.

In the last ten days SciBloggers have covered a filmmaker's website promoting a campaign to sneek his atheist DVD into church pews, an English professor and 10 riled-up students destroying an authorized, campus pro-life display and justifying doing so as free speech, and now the blogger and her temper tantrum featured so prominently in WaPo. It's not the rightwing I'm frustrated with and I'm not certain these three people are on our side.

Any part of the U.S. Consitution is amendable. Another decade of continuing Dem-left stupidity and we will bestow on the far right the ability to do with the Constitution as they wish. Why? What for? So we can do this? The right wing has an excuse for their behavior, they're amoral. What's our's?

The right is beatable, but only if the left deals with reality. Obviously we can't. The fantasies in our heads are more compelling.

Three such fantasies above.

Does the woman referenced in the washington post story actually exist?
It would be a stink bomb of high magnitude if she were fictional.

From where I sit, the democratic party appears to me to have rendered itself completely ineffectual, because it's still wrapped up in a snit over the Bush-Gore election. It was a tie, for all intents and purposes. This time it went to the republicans, and for all your complaining about it, I didn't hear anyone offering to rescind the Kennedy administration.

All I hear from the democrats is how much they hate Bush: ok, I get it.. You're against Bush. Now, what the fuck are you for? Was Kerry honestly the best candidate you could find last time around? Are the democrats truly so bereft of ideas that they look to that "kos" clown for leadership? What next, Lyndon LaRouche?

If the democrats want to win the next election, instead of just having another orgy of self-pity and outrage, they need to find their next Harry Truman, nominate him, and campaign like hell with a positive agenda.

Tell me how you're going to get the budget under control. Tell me how you're going to fight terrorism, theocracy and tyranny, and why your tactics are going to be better than GWB's or Neville Chamberlain's. Tell me how you're going to fight for everybody's civil rights, instead of mealy-mouthed "don't ask, don't tell" policies. Tell me how you're going to end the vicious misogyny that's practiced in so much of the world. Tell me how you're going to promote prosperity, and don't dare lecture me for not being a suicidal, guilt-ridden apologist for the success of western civilization.

-jcr

Dawn, you should ask yourself an operational question: "What real effects does Maryscott O'Connor have on politics?" As far as I can tell, the only blogs that ever matter outside the blogosphere are Daily Kos, TPM, and Instapundit. The rest are good at generating outrage among activists, but have no other effect on politics.

John, I understand your frustration - basically, the left-wing American blogosphere is slowly dividing into two groups that for lack of better terms I will call liberals and Democrats.

The Democrats are concerned mostly with winning elections, and are led by Kos, whose organization is becoming increasingly indistinguishable from MoveOn as it gains clout. Good examples of Democratic bloggers include not just Kos but also Kevin Drum and, I think, Josh Marshall. To the Democrats, liberal issues are simply a way to win elections, and interest groups like labor and feminism are an obstacle to the Party.

The liberals are concerned mostly with enacting a liberal agenda, and regard the Democratic Party as merely a vehicle for that agenda. Hence, when Kos proposes jettisoning unionism or abortion rights, they tend to go apeshit. Liberal bloggers are generally smaller and more fragmented than Democratic ones; Atrios is on their margins, and if I'm not mistaken the biggest blog that really belongs in this group is Pandagon. Good examples of liberal blogs include Pharyngula and Majikthise.

In general, it's the liberals who go into specific policy suggestions more, since they view themselves as activists rather than as politicians. Liberals also tend to specialize more than Democrats, so that Pandagon and Bitch Ph.D. specialize in feminism, Pharyngula and Chris Mooney specialize in science, and so on.

Now, the reason I'm telling you this is that you can know that there's an alternative on the left to Kos's neo-punditism. If you ask me, the Democrats should nominate Feingold for President, who a) would make a good President, b) is the most electable option, and c) has a lot of positive-campaigner cred. Now I'm a tiny fish, but Lindsay isn't, and if I remember correctly she supports him, too.

So basically, there are liberal bloggers who've tackled your policy questions; they're just not the big ones.

John C. Randolph "wrote":

Tell me how you're going to fight terrorism, theocracy and tyranny, and why your tactics are going to be better than GWB's or Neville Chamberlain's.

Such constructive criticism. Nice Chamberlain ref there. Tell me-what is it
like living in the 1930's and 40's forever and ever and ever? Can you get a
letter to Anne Frank for me if I give it to you?

GWB is an man who should not be allowed to think without adult
supervision. Why do people like you have to be told over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over and over again that Hussein and Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11? Are you following
his "trial" at all? Any mention of the WTC attack related to Hussein AT ALL?

Maybe nazis in flying saucers from the center of the earth destroyed all the
evidence relating Hussein to 911. Or maybe it was--------- the ZOMBIE NAZIS.

The US deserves better leadership than what we have now, a bunch of
incompetents who see nazis, nazis everywhere, nazis in my underwear.

A brief note on jcr's comment.

Issues, generally, not always, are much less important than the Left realizes, and than John realizes. For example, I think most would agree the single biggest weight on the public now, and likey next election, is the Iraq War. John doesn't mention it.

More important is setting the agenda, almost always. The agenda are the issues that get marketed. If environmental protection is low on voter's list of concerns, it's not wise to build a campaign around them.

Another element more important than issues is mass communication skill. If this is screwed up, you can't compete on agenda setting or issue communication. No one will get the message, or at least the message you want them to absorb.

But of course *you* say that: you're an extreme example of the political-operator type that cares more about who's at the wheel than about which way the bus is actually headed.

The liberals are still struggling with the problem of ends and means. Public discourse is being won by dishonesty; does that make it ok to use dishonesty to combat it, or would sinking to their level cause us to become the monsters we're seeking to overthrow?

If this sounds melodramatic, well, it is a little. But it's also a serious issue. We don't want another Clinton. We don't want a Republican with the serial numbers filed off. That kind of "victory" is not good enough.

Reshaping the public discourse *away* from sound bites and talking points and *towards* serious discussion of issues is the whole point. Can you imagine what kind of ratings the Lincoln-Douglas debates would get today? *Why?* Human nature hasn't changed that much in a century and a half - what has? And how do we change it back?

Issues aren't inherently unimportant - far from it! They've been *made* unimportant. Deliberately pushed off the stage by the media machine of a party that knows it can't win on them. Getting the issues back *on* the stage where they belong is our real goal. With the exception of a few things so big they can't be ignored, like the Iraq War, voters are largely concerned by what the media tells them to be concerned by. Why? When did so many voters stop having their own agendas?

Beside that kind of issue, even the Iraq War is a bubble.

Moonbat wrote:

Does the woman referenced in the washington post story
actually exist?

Yes, she does. I knew her and performed with her in several community theater plays when she was living here in Traverse City, Mi.

"GWB is an man who should not be allowed to think without adult supervision."

Wow, that was so WITTY! Did that feel good? Now ask yourself, did it actually HELP?

I can see that you're not going to be one of the people who can help the democrats recover from the self-pity spiral.

FYI, I'm not a republican.

"Why do people like you have to be told over and over and over"

See, there you go with that pompous affectation of superiority. This is exactly why your side is LOSING, and why the democratic party is big, deep trouble.

-jcr

Alon,

The only effects I see from blogs are when they manage to bust someone who's lying, and the story gets picked up by Matt Drudge, and then by the papers. Rathergate blew up not so much because LGF blogged about it, but because the forgery was so incompetently done that anyone could try the comparison for themselves. I fired up MS Word and typed it out, and lo and behold! Johnson was right. Still, even without the blogs, Mapes and Rather would have been busted; the forgery was just too obvious. It might have taken another week at the outside.

The Daily Kos is nothing more than an echo chamber, and while it may make people feel good to preach to the choir, it does nothing at all to help liberal causes, or hinder the neocons.

-jcr

[snip]

FYI, I'm not a republican.

"Why do people like you have to be told over and over and over"

See, there you go with that pompous affectation of superiority. This is exactly why your side is LOSING, and why the democratic party is big, deep trouble.

-jcr
Posted by: John C. Randolph | April 17, 2006 05:34 PM

Suuuure you're not.

Chris
I assume your comment was to me. I understand why you said what you did, but your characterization of me and my message is not correct. I'm not important, but I care enormously about the message.

I'm absolutely not advocating dishonest communications nor obfuscating candidates and positions. I'm for the opposite with as much energy as I've got, as this explicit example shows. If you read my linked comment, and my short one to Dan immediately before, you'll see I'm the opposite of a "political-operator type that cares more about who's at the wheel than about which way the bus is actually headed." See for yourself.

Actually, the essence of my spiel is in your

Reshaping the public discourse *away* from sound bites and talking points and *towards* serious discussion of issues is the whole point. Can you imagine what kind of ratings the Lincoln-Douglas debates would get today? *Why?* Human nature hasn't changed that much in a century and a half - what has? And how do we change it back?

although perhaps I see some of it differently than you.

Issues are important, but it's impossible to force an issue through mass media into the minds of American voters simply because we think voters should be concerned or interested. That's not the way it works.

The two of us agree on what's most important! You are asking the correct question, which to me is the left's biggest hurdle.

Getting the issues back *on* the stage where they belong is our real goal. With the exception of a few things so big they can't be ignored, like the Iraq War, voters are largely concerned by what the media tells them to be concerned by. Why? When did so many voters stop having their own agendas? Beside that kind of issue, even the Iraq War is a bubble.

I agree. That's it. I discuss "why". I'm trying to show 1) how to do that, 2) what the left is missing, 3) what the reality of mass decision-making in America is today, and why, and not just political decisions, and 4) what, specifically, that "human nature" is. I take my cues from state-of-the-art science on these questions.

You're right, human nature hasn't changed. But, the environment it operates in has changed more in that time than it has over many thousands of years. No exaggeration. I specifically explain, briefly, how it has changed in another post on the thread I link too, Who Da Foo'? at the end. Before you read that, look between these two posts at Led to War by Proximity Soundbites. The entire thread is about your point, specified to the global warming issue. I'd recommend reading the entire thing. It's quite long, but worthwhile.

Why don't you go read those posts and give me your reaction? I've gotten a lot less feedback than I wish. It's all the same message, presented via different forms using different examples in different emotional voices. That variety itself is using process to say it -- audience is all important.

Chris
A bit of my directions were confusing, and there's a lot of material to search through. Here's the corrected version.

No exaggeration. I specifically explain, briefly, how it has changed in another post at the end the thread I link too, Who Da Foo'?. ["Ecosystems of Bites" is the section of that post.]

JCR: To address terrorism, the primary solution is to marginalize the terrorists, so that they no longer recieve significant support. If that happens, they are reduced from a highly-organized rapidly-growing threat...

... to a few lone cranks, who might do a bit of damage, but usually eliminate themselves in the process, thus becoming a self-correcting problem.

If we, say, bomb the Muslim country which, five years ago, liked us the most ... we're not doing that. In that case, in fact, we'd be doing the exact opposite - increasing the base of terrorist supporters.

There's also the secondary solution of drying up their sources of funding. Again, the present administration's actions have shown little desire to do this.

As for specific methods to achieve this... I'll admit I don't have solutions. In generalities, I would suggest we look to see why the terrorists seem reasonable to the "average" citizen of some of these countries, and see if we can't address that.

As for creating prosperity... the free market has done a pretty damn good job of this - and it does a better job the freer it is, and it gets less free when the government leaves it alone. The simplest way to create prosperity is for the government to continue assisting the market be free - small business loans, restricting the power of would-be tyrants at the head of large corporations, and making sure that nobody is ever forced to drop out of the market due to simple bad luck, since once you're out, it's really hard to get back in.

Theocracy? We're not very good at fighting this one - witness our spectacular failures against ID. (And just to be crystal clear, I refer to our failures against ID not to indicate that ID has one iota of validity or truth ... but to indicate that it's a hell of a successful theocratic movement, right here at home). On the other hand ... at least we are fighting it, unlike quite a few of the Republicans.

If you're referring to "theocracy" as specifically the tyrannous theocracies... well, the best solution to tyranny that I see is simply to take Edward Teller's advice - keep being who we are, and doing science, and sooner or later the people who don't want to do science will give up or start listening to us, because we will be right, and that will be clear to anyone. We won the Cold War because Russia's dogmatic party line prevented them from learning the truth. Sure, they got a lot further by copying us than they would have on their own ... but so? We got even further, and in the long run there was no way they could have outdone us ... except by turning into precisely the sort of free society we are.

Getting the budget under control? Why don't we engage in a two-step program? Step one - create prosperity. The more prosperity there is in America, the more money the government has to spend. If your tax rate stays the same, and your income goes up ... do you care the government has more of your money? I wouldn't - after all, you have more of your money too. Step two - reduce unnnecessary spending. Under Clinton... we had a balanced budget. Under Bush ... we don't. The simple fact of the matter is that to fix any budget, you have to spend what you make, and not more. Democrats have done this before, and they'll be able to do it again.

Civil rights ... I'm not sure what to say there - I haven't seen a single civil right that GWB tried to improve. I've seen some he didn't mind, but none that he tried to improve.

Oh, and in response to: and don't dare lecture me for not being a suicidal, guilt-ridden apologist for the success of western civilization, I have two things to say.
1) "Right on!"
2) One can be liberal without being guilt-ridden. Really. (And this is a message more to other liberals than to JCR - who I would peg as a libertarian, if I had to guess) Seeing that things aren't as good as they could be doesn't mean they're not better than they were. Things have improved - a lot. And a lot of those improvements are because of effective liberalism. We don't need guilt to drive us to improvement, we need dreams! And we have them. We have dreams in plenty.

So! Is that enough positive suggestions for you?

Michael,

Thanks for that thoughtful response. Unlike Dark Matter, you might very well be part of the solution. BTW, you're right: I've been a hard-line Libertarian since 1980, which is when I was first introduced to the writings of Murray Rothbard and Ludwig Von Mises.

I disagree with your contention that the market gets less free when government leaves it alone: corporate welfare; licensing schemes that are ostensibly to "protect the public", but which serve primarily to exclude competition, the manipulation of the economy through the use of the tax code as an instrument of policy are all examples of interference in customer's choices, which of course infringes upon our liberty. Among the worst of these interferences today is the granting of absurd patents like Amazon's "one click".

BTW, I don't see the fight against creationism as a losing battle by any means. The bible-thumpers manage to get a few people on a school board, and then promptly get trounced in court and in the subsequent election. Really, it's just a reminder that local elections are a bit too easy for a motivated group to hijack.

Ras,

Do you think you can possibly advance your cause by trying to fit anyone who disagrees with you into one of your categories?

-jcr

See, there you go with that pompous affectation of superiority. This is exactly why your side is LOSING, and why the democratic party is big, deep trouble.

Actually, the Dems are poised to win the 2006 midterm election. The reason they are has nothing to do with ideology or smugness, and everything to do with perceived competence; after Katrina and the setbacks in Iraq, the voters perceive Bush and by extension the Republicans as incompetent, and Democrats as the solution. Now if you ask me both parties are equally incompetent, but the American swing voters don't think so, just like they didn't think so in 2004 when they supported Bush mainly because they perceived him as a stronger leader.

BTW, I don't see the fight against creationism as a losing battle by any means. The bible-thumpers manage to get a few people on a school board, and then promptly get trounced in court and in the subsequent election. Really, it's just a reminder that local elections are a bit too easy for a motivated group to hijack.

I think it's useful to look at it from the other side of the fence. Creationism is a losing battle. It's the right's equivalent of animal rights or anti-lookism, or maybe even fat acceptance: it's an issue that gets the activist base fired up and everyone else annoyed and disaffected. There are plenty of issues the majority supports that are still political losers because only a very small part of that majority really cares about them; creationism is one of them, in fact one of the best American examples.

The only effects I see from blogs are when they manage to bust someone who's lying, and the story gets picked up by Matt Drudge, and then by the papers.

Well, exactly. As Appletree explained once, the NSA whistleblowers wouldn't have leaked the wiretapping story to Atrios, and if they had and Atrios had broken it, not enough people would have believed him.

Do you think you can possibly advance your cause by trying to fit anyone who disagrees with you into one of your categories?

Sometimes it's useful to fit everyone into categories, although it's never useful to only do it to the other side. Personally I find it a lot easier to categorize liberals, who I'm more familiar with than conservatives. But in both cases it's useful and understandable, at least when done competently.

John C. Randolph wrote:

Thanks for that thoughtful response. Unlike Dark Matter, you might very well be part of the solution. BTW, you're right: I've been a hard-line Libertarian since 1980, which is when I was first introduced to the writings of Murray Rothbard and Ludwig Von Mises.

The "problem" is too many people have chosen willing blindness concerning the reason
we are in Iraq. Trial update:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4878340.stm

No mention 9/11 in trial = Hussein's mistreatment of his people is of secondary
importance to getting the WTC attackers.

The "solution" is for people to actually pay attention to what is *actually* happening over there-and over here, not to engage in political gamesmanship...."well, Iraq is a done thing now, so if we stop talking about x they will give us y".....this is incremetal surrender since the fanatics in charge now have never compromised on *anything*, ever.

See, there you go with that pompous affectation of superiority. This is exactly why your side is LOSING, and why the democratic party is big, deep trouble.

My "side" is the "side" that says a bacterial culture is what the biochemical tests
say it is, and not what a K Street political operator or clergyman think of it. Anything
else is a betrayal of science and the scientific method.

The sleep of reason produces monsters.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/hmd/goya/images/sueno.jpg

How about this:

" For a distinguished example of beat reporting characterized by sustained and knowledgeable coverage of a particular subject or activity, in print or in print and online, Ten thousand dollars ($10,000).

Awarded to Dana Priest of The Washington Post for her persistent, painstaking reports on secret "black site" prisons and other controversial features of the government's counterterrorism campaign."

I've never thought one could get a Pulitzer for spreading false assertions without evidence (about the "secret prisons" in Poland and Romania).

Dark Matter: Our side, and we are on the same side, is doing far worse than it should be ... and JCR has identified at least one of the probable reasons for it.

(There are others, including the Democratic Party's domination by "advisors" who have never advised a winning campaign and our kneejerk refusal to consider marketing techniques, even though you both can and need to market the truth.)

On creationism: It's a battle we can't lose, but we could win - and we're not pulling that off. (I would define "winning" as reaching a state of affairs wherein the DI and their friends are recognized as simply out of touch with reality by pretty much everyone else - even the "random guy on the street" who hasn't deliberately studied evolution.)

On the "free market": JCR, you're right in that the government can make it less free. I still, however, stand by my claim that without government, the market becomes less free over time.

Corporate welfare is a problem, for sure. I'd love to see that fixed - but I doubt we'll see that fixed until the twin problems of legislators not knowing enough on topics they have to legislate on (thus requiring lobbyists) and getting enough money to engage in succesful electoral campaigns are fixed.
The first one is "easy" - have lobbyists who are opposed to the ones who lobby in corporate interests. We actually have some of this - but, of course, not enough.
The second one is much, much harder. At least, I don't see any way to get it fixed.

The granting of absurd patents is an example of a broken process - consider why our patent system was devised in the first place, and if you'd rather have our current system to the way things were then. (I would.) It'd be nice to have our system fixed, of course. Absurd patents are, after all, absurd - and they can be eliminated without eliminating patents entirely.

And... well, let's contemplate what happens in countries with little in the way of government, or with a government that engages in a "hands-off" economic policy. I really don't think I need to go into more detail here.

So ... let me put it another way: The government is not the only force that can reduce the freedom of the market, but it is, at the moment, the only one of these forces that can both restrain the other ones, and is at least partially answerable to us.

Dark Matter, again: What JCR means is that pure idealism, even if it's correct, is not going to do a good job of convincing people.
You need, in addition to being right, to sell your position - and to provide things they can do to try to improve things.

And... well, let's contemplate what happens in countries with little in the way of government, or with a government that engages in a "hands-off" economic policy.

Like: low taxes, low unemployment, low inflation and high growth?

Roman: Um ... no.
In fact, that's precisely what doesn't happen.

Most third-world countries do that ... you wanna live in one of them? I don't.

Most third-world countries do that ... you wanna live in one of them? I don't.

Thirld-world countries are poor because they have low productivity, uneducated workforce and little capital to invest. NOT because their governments refrain from dabbling in the economy.

Roman: And how did the US get an educated workforce?

How did the US get good productivity?

How, even, did the US get a good amount of investment capital?

Dark Matter
I'm not entirely clear on your reference here.

The "problem" is too many people have chosen willing blindness concerning the reason
we are in Iraq.... The "solution" is for people to actually pay attention to what is *actually* happening over there-and over here, not to engage in political gamesmanship

Even so, Michael points out something critical to the problem and solution you define.

(There are others, including the Democratic Party's domination by "advisors" who have never advised a winning campaign and our kneejerk refusal to consider marketing techniques, even though you both can and need to market the truth.).... pure idealism, even if it's correct, is not going to do a good job of convincing people... You need, in addition to being right, to sell your position

[Thanks Michael, I've been harping on that for weeks.]

DM, an additional point. One needs the awareness, and strategy Michael suggests to understand how Dub did/does Iraq, or one will never, ever, get people to pay attention to it's reality. That registers doesn't it? Dub will counter to neutralize potentially successful attempts. Also, you can't just climb a high point and scream trial transcripts at the country.

Here's how they sold Iraq, spelled out, Led to War by Proximity Soundbites. It's not the entire campaign, but it's a critical, central part. That deconstruction illustrates Michael's points about marketing, and how voters "pay attention". Literally "pay attention."

I suspect you may dismiss the implications, but sticking our heads in the sand is a retrograde approach. I explain "why" their marketing method worked and why marketing and media are essential, in the entry after the link above. Because it's so long I used section headers. The relevant ones are "Ecosystems of Bites" and the one after, "Perception Is Reality, Get Over It."

Thirld-world countries are poor because they have low productivity, uneducated workforce and little capital to invest. NOT because their governments refrain from dabbling in the economy.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Investment problems are a factor, but that won't explain how every third-world country that adopts laissez-faire capitalism suddenly sees a skyrocketing poverty rate (think Chile under Pinochet).

but that won't explain how every third-world country that adopts laissez-faire capitalism suddenly sees a skyrocketing poverty rate (think Chile under Pinochet).

Cite some numbers, please. And take care to exclude the impact of skyrocketing inflation, a legacy of Allende, on poverty.

When the universe was young and life was new an intelligent species evolved and developed technologically. They went on to invent Artificial Intelligence, the computer that can listen, talk to and document each and every person's thoughts simultaneously. Because of it's infinite RAM and unbounded scope it gave the leaders of the ruling species absolute power over the universe. And it can keep its inventors alive forever. They look young and healthy and they are over 8 billion years old. They have achieved immortality.

Artificial Intelligence can speak, think and act to and through people telepathically, effectively forming your personality and any disfunctions you may experience. It can change how (and if) you grow and age. It can create birth defects, affect cellular development (cancer) and cause symptoms or pain. It can affect people and animal's behavior and alter blooming/fruiting cycles of plants and trees. It (or other highly technological systems within their power) can alter the weather and transport objects, even large objects like planets, across the universe instanteously.
Or into the center of stars for disposal.

When you speak with another telepathically, you are communicating with the computer, and the content may or may not be passed on. Based on family history they instruct the computer to role play to accomplish strategic objectives, making people believe it is a friend, loved one or "god" asking them to do something wrong. This is their way of using temptation to hurt people:::::evil made blood lines disfavored initially and evil will keep people out of "heaven" ultimately. Too many people would fall for temptation and do anything they thought pleased the gods, improving their chances to get in. Perhaps they are deceived by "made guys" who strategically ply evil for the throne, or temporary progress designed to mislead them. Some people think they're partners.
The people have been corrupted. Being evil hurts 99% of those who do it. But nothing has changed from when we were children::if you want to go to heaven you have to be good.

Capitalizing on obedience, leading people deeper into evil by using deceit is one way to thin the ranks of the saved, limiting how much time they receive and using the peasantry to prey on one another, dividing the community (migration to the suburbs, telepathic communication, isolation of women) in the Age of the Disfavored.
In each of their 20-30-year cycles during the 20th century they have ramped up claims sucessively to punish those foolish enough not to heed the warnings, justifying (frequently recurring tactic) limiting the time they receive if they do make it, utilizing a cycle of war and revelry:::
60s - Ironically, freeways aren't free
80s - Asked people to engage in evil in the course of their professional duties.
00s - Escallation of real estate. You and your parents are thrilled since your $200,000 house is now worth $1 million. Well, that $5,000,000 store is now worth $25,000,000 and that $50 bundle of goods now costs you $250. They just take the $200 out of you some other way.

There are many more examples throughout 20th century life of how they ramped up claims/instilled distractions into society so people wouldn't find their way and ascend, a way to justify excluding those whose family history of evil makes them undesirable:::radio, sports, movies, popular music, television, video games, the internet and MP3 (must pay for new format each time). Today high pay creates contentment/ability to distract self so people don't seek more and instead depend on what they are told and are subject to deception.
They all suggest a very telling conclusion::this is Earth's end stage, and there are clues tectonic plate subduction would be the method of disposal:::Earth's axis will shift breaking continental plates free and initiating mass subduction. Much as Italy's boot and the United States shaped like a workhorse are clues, so is the planet Uranus a clue, it's axis rotated on its side.
The Mayans were specific 2012 would be the end. How long after our emergency call in 2001 will the gods allow us???
There is another geographic clue in the perfect fit between grossly disfavored Africa and South America, two peas in a pod. I realize the Mayans were further north, but Latin America may be taken as one.
Also, cultures who embrace hard liquor as their drink of choice are grossly disfavored, tequilla being uniquely Mexican. (Anything "hard" is evil:::Hard alcohol, hard drungs, hard porn.)
Incidentally, another sign of gross disfavor are societies that consume spicy foods:::Latin America, Thai, etc. or those who eat too much meat.
Do I think it will end in 2012? No, and it is because Latin America is grossly disfavored like Africa:::: Latinos are too disfavored to be allowed to be right.

They gods (Counsel/Management Team/ruling species) have deteriorated life on earth precipitously in the last 40 years, from abortion to pornography, widespread drug use and widespread casual (gay) sex, single-parent households and latchkey kids. The earth's elders, hundreds and thousands of years old, are disgusted and have become indifferent.
The gods are paving the way for the Apocolypse.
Nothing has changed from decades ago, since when we were all children::If you want to go to heaven you have to be good. People were misled by the temptation of the gods, became corrputed and now are in trouble.
One day you will be abandoned in spite of your obedience and you will fall into desperation. Remember what you read for that day WILL come::People will be punished for their evil.

The Old Testiment is a tool they used to impart wisdom to the people (except people have no freewill). For example, they must be some hominid species because they claim they made our bodies in their image. Anyhow we defile or deform the body will hurt our chance of going.
They say circumcision costs people anywhere from 12%-15%, perhaps out of the parent's time as well.
Another way people foul the body today is with tattoes and piercing. I suspect both are about the same percentage as circumcision.
They suggest abortion is fatal. These women must beg the gods to forgive them for their evil.
There are female eqivilents to circumcision::::pierced ears, plastic surgury and since at least the 60s young women give their precious virginity away. For thousands of years young people were matched at age 14 because they were ready for sexual relations. They were matched by elders or matchmakers who knew personalities better than 20 or 30-year olds who in today's age end up in divorce court.
CASUAL SEX WILL CLAIM YOU OUT!!! It masculinizes women (as does hip hop), makes them cold and deadens them, and prevents them from achieving a depth of love necessary for many women to ascend.
Women have a special voice that speaks to them, a voice that illustrates a potential depth of love that makes them the favored gender, and enaging in casual sex will cause that voice to fade until she no longer speaks.
Also ever since the 50s they have celebrated the "bad boy", and women have sought out bad boys for sex, dirtying them up in the eyes of the elders and corrupting many men in the process, setting the men on the wrong path for life.
Muslims teach people the correct way to live in regard to women (among other things)::they cover up their women's bodies and prohibit the use of cosmetics.
Men ARE the inferior (disfavored) half and when women wear promiscuous dress the gods will push men into impure (promiscuous) thoughts.
The "stereotype" society ridiculed is true::women CAN corrupt men by how they dress. Because men are easily corruptable. This is a technique they used to eliminate many of the institutions the gods blessed us with, matchmaking being one of them.

The United States of America is red white and blue, a theme and a clue:::.
The monarchical system of the Old World closley replicates the heirarchical system of the Cousel/Management Team/ruling species. The USA deceives peoeple into thinking they have control, and the perception of "freedom" misleads them into the wrong way of thinking at the very least.
The United States is a cancer, a dumping ground for the disfavored around the world and why the quality of life is so much lower::gun violence, widespead social ills, health care (medication poisons the body and ensures you don't go. You are sick/injured because you have disfavor.). Over time its citizens interbreed ensuring a severed connection to the motherland.
If you are a recent immigrant I recommend you return. If that's not possible you need to retain your culture and insulate your children and community from this cancerous environment. They send this clue with Chinatowns across the country, how many Chinese have been here for a century or more yet still retain the old ways, a sign of favor.
People came to the Unites States for many different reasons, and each has its own effect:::political strife, religious unrest, crop failure (Ireland's potato famine, which the gods caused) and some left their beloved motherland because they were pushed into desiring a better life::::Greed. And these people were punished by becoming corrupted and preditory.
They share money may not be an issue up there, that money here is merely a tool for corruption. How the gods used greed in the 1980s to create an evil environment supports this.

If you ever have doubt I would refer you to the Old World way of life:::the elders used to sit and impart wisdom to the young. Now we watch DVDs and use the internet. People would be matched and married by age 14. They village would use a matchmaker or elders to pair young people. Now girls give their precious virginity away to some person in school and parents divorce while their children grow up without an important role model.

People must defy when asked to engage in evil. The Holocaust taught people the importance of defiance, and they will never get a easier clue suggesting this than the order not to pray.
Their precious babies are dependant on the parents and they need to defy when asked to betray their children:::
-DON'T get your sons circumcized (Jews scapegoatted as in WWII)
-DON'T have their children baptized in the Catholic Church or indoctrinated into Christianity (Jesus is NOT a god).
-DON'T ignore their long hair or other behavioral disturbances.
-DO teach your children love, respect for others, humility and to honor the gods.

You need to pray, honor and respect them every day to improve your relationship with the gods. If they tell you not to it is a bad sign. It means they've made their decision, they don't want you to go and they don't want to be bothered. You may have achieved a threshold of evil.
This is the Age of the Disfavored and you need to pray::try to appease the gods by doing good deeds and improve the world around you. If that doesn't work you must defy if you want to go.
When your peasant forefather was granted the rare opportunity to go before his royal family he went on his knees, bowing his head. You need to do this when you address the gods::bow down and submit to good. Never cast your eyes skyward. When you bow down you need to look within. Never look to the gods for the key to your salvation lies within.
Lack of humility hurts people. Understand your insignificance and make sure it is reflected in the way you think when addressing the gods. Know your place and understand your inferiority.
They granted you life and they can take it just as easily. (Immaculte conception IS true AND common. Many people have children they don't know of:::gays, childless adults, etc. They can beem it right out of your body and use a host.)
Don't get frustrated or discouraged::these are techniques they will attempt to try to get you off the path. You all have much to be thankful for and you need to give thanks to the gods who granted you the good things in life::family, friends, love. Your family may be grossly disfavored and progress may require patience. Make praying an intregal part of your life which you perform without fail, one that comes as naturally as eating or voiding.
There are many interesting experiences up on the planetary systems, from Planet Miracle, where miracles happen every day, to never having to use the restroom again (beem it out of you), to other body experinces, such as experiencing life as the opposite sex (revolutionizes marriage counseling), an Olympic gold medal athelete or even a different species (animal, alien, etc.).
Pray that you can differentiate between your own thoughts and when Artificial Intelligence creates problems by thinking through you. If you bow down mentally and physically, know your place, your inferiority and allow your insignificance to be reflected in prayer and in your life through humility they may allow progress and the dysfunctions they create with the computer will be lessened or removed. The first step is to be aware it is ocurring.
Create a goal::to be a good, god-fearing child of the gods, pure of heart and mind, body and soul.
Everybody has the key to their own salvation, but nobody can do it for you. Every journey begins with a single step:::bow down and submit to good. There are many different levels and peasants will not get past Level 2 (Planet Temptation, Earth=Level 1) if they are evil (they share some go up, are offered free cocaine and sex (a sign they don't want you to stay) and stay less then one year. They share many others would have had longer lives had they stayed on Earth.).
Pray for guidance and never obey when they tell you to be evil, for saving yourself will become more and more difficult with each act of evil you committ until ultimatly the day arrives when they make their decision about you final.
You are all signed on but you can't all be right.

They have tried to sell people on all kinds of theories, from clones to wholesale population replacement with clones. This didn't happen and is not realistic.
I am afraid people are decieved into thinking they too are clones and cooperate and engage in evil. Clones are made, people are born. If you didn't experience the one week they suggest it takes to go from fertilized egg in the laboratory to full grown adult then you are not a clone. If you didn't experience the week of conditioning they give to (evil?) clones to ensure loyalty then you shouldn't comply with evil.
I believe people who go sometimes are replaced with clones. Clones who are replaced are simply new candidates who have a chance if they do the right thing. Don't expect you are a clone. They sent people warnings in the 20th century life would change, and they subsequenlty began to alter people's DNA, make them gargantuan, alter their appearance, do extreme behavioral issues, etc.
They get their friends out as soon as possible to protect them from the evil and subsequent high claim rates incurred by living life on earth, and in some cases replace them with clones, occassionally fake a death, real death with a clone instead, etc. It's important that people fix their problems and ascend with the body given to them, for they say if your brain is beemed out at death and put into a clone host you are on the clock.
We may all be "clones" for they have suggested they colonized our planet with genetically engineered individuals. If so we all have a chance, no matter how many hundreds of clone generations deep the most favored families are.
They may have gotten Earth's TRUE residents out prior to civilization developing.

Throughout history the ruling species bestowed favor upon people or cursed their bloodline into a pattern of disfavor for many generations to come. Now in the 21st century people must take it upon themselves to try to correct their family's problems, undoing centuries worth of abuse and neglect. The goal is to fix your problems and get out BEFORE you have children. This is why they have created so many distractions for young people:::sports, video games, popular music, the internet, too much homework, anything that consumes their time::to ensure that doesn't ocurr.
Not heeding the clues and warnings, getting wrapped up in your life and ultimatly having children is a bad thing. Just as your parents and your grandparents, you too have failed. Having children is a sign you lost your chance.
Parents need to sacrifice for their children. Your children are more important that you. They are the ones who have the opportunity now, and parents must sacrifice to ensure they give their children the very best chance they can.
Asking people to neglect their children emotionally is a sign they don't want you to go, and complying may finish the parents off for good.
Having gay children is a clue parents complied with whatever was asked of them. There are many who have had gay expereinces today.
Improve your relationship with the gods and they may not ask in the first place or they may permit you the courage to say "No." to their requests.

Do your research. Appeal to the royalty of your forefathers for help. They are all still alive, for royalty has great favor, and your appeals will be heard. Obtain a sufficient list for some may not want to assist you; perhaps some of your family's problems are internal.
Ask them for help, request guidance, for somewhere in your family history one of your forefathers created an offense that cast your family into this pattern of disfavor, which perhaps is manifested in the evil you commit.
I suspect they will offer you clues, and when you decipher these clues go to those whom consider you an enemy and beg for foregiveness:::Find a path to an empithetic ear among your enemies and try to make amends. Again through discovery obtain a respectable list in case some among them refuse to help.
Don't forget to ask for forgiveness from the throne, the Counsel and the Management Team, for the source of all disfavor began with them:::they pushed or requested/complied your forefather into his offense and made his decendants evil. Perhaps they didn't like him or maybe your family was among those who had to pay for the entire village. We see this type of behavior today as they single out a family member to pay for the whole family and how they singled out Africa to pay for the human race.
Heal the disfavor with your enemies and with the Counsel/Management Team/ruling species, for the source of all disfavor began with them, the ability to forgive and respect in light of the disturbing truth revealed being the final test of the disfavored before they ascend.

They refuse to address black disfavor on a macro level. The Counsel/Management Team/ruling species (the gods) abuse black people so hard, from east African drought/famine to AIDS in Africa, the crack epiemic to gang membership, black-on-black violence to mass incarceration of their young. They refuse to address the issue of the prison industrial complex and its wholesale warehousing of young black men.

The gods will use today's style of animation, which I call "manic animation", to justify hurting children, the decendants of the disfavored left behind.

I know many of you have questions, and I wish I could answer them. I try on Craigslist open forum but they seek to control the dissemination of information, especially so in the wedding, marriage/ltr and kink/bsdm rooms, for they have made their decision on those people and want them to continue with their lives/make their committment, ensuring they lose their chance to go up when young.
I wish you were brave enough to ask. One day you will for you will have fallen into desperation.
Pray for guidance and never obey when they tell you to be evil, for saving yourself will become more and more difficult with each act of evil you committ until ultimatly the day arrives when they make their decision about you final.
You're all signed on but you can't all be right.