...falling out of the stupid tree and smacking into every branch on the way down would be another. By now, you might have heard about the corporate lobbyist-organized healthcare offensive, which is designed to 'confront' officials at public meetings about healthcare--that is, heckle, intimidate, and shut down these meetings. Democratic Representative Gene Green (R-TX) wasn't having any of it:
During the town hall, one conservative activist turns to his fellow attendees and asks them to raise their hands if they "oppose any form of socialized or government-run health care." Almost all the hands shot up. Rep Green quickly turned the question on the audience and asked, "How many of you have Medicare?" Nearly half the attendees raised their hands, failing to note the irony.
Words can't begin to describe how stupid this is (although feel free to try in the comments). But this is the next step from Palinism to fascism:
The primary purpose of politics is not to govern, not to provide services, and not to solve mundane, although often important, problems. For the Palinist, politics first and foremost exists to enable the social restoration of 'real' Americans (think about the phrase "red blooded American") and the emotional and social advantages that restoration would provide to its followers (obviously, if you're not a 'real' American, you might view this as a bad thing...). Practicalities of governance, such as compromise and worrying about reality-based outcomes, actually get in the way. Why risk having your fantasy muddied by reality?
In this way, symbols and short phrases are the goal, not a means (although others, such as corporations and lobbyists, are willing to co-opt the emotions these symbols generate to further their own agendas).
I'm waiting for these idiots to start beating people up, since they're already trying to intimidate elected officials and other attendees of these meetings.
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If Gene Green is Democrat, he should have a (D-TX) behind his name, not an (R-TX).
Don't feel bad. It is an easy mistake to make. Fox News does this all the time. Usually, though, it is the other way 'round, with them giving Republicans a (D) whenever they get caught with their pants in the cookie jar.
I have to admit, it'll be nice to see conservative protesters on the wrong end of tear gas and tazers.
It's funny how when anyone left of Limbaugh protests absolutely anything we get a hundred videos of police brutality, yet conservatives protest things all the time in far more aggressive ways and we never hear of them getting beaten. I wonder what the reason for that could be.
That's a monumentally loaded question. Regardless how any older person feels about the wisdom of the Medicare program, they've been taxed at confiscatory rates their entire lives to pay for it. As a young person I'd opt out of Social Security and Medicare in a heartbeat if I could, but I can't. As such I had damn well better get something for my money when I'm old.
MyÅlÄ Å¼e masz racjÄ. Pozdrawiam MichaÅ.
I do not want a socialist government run anti-healthcare population control programin America. Socialists, communists, liberals, marxists, and Islamofascists are not welcome in a America. Get the hell out! We want our freedom back and the governemtn to be downsized by a minimum of 65%. Get rid of all liberal marxists including the ACLU, ACORN, George Soros, and the like from government funding and programs. Impriosn them for treason and give us our liberty back!
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By the way has PZ myers' group of thugs come this way. I have seemed to have lost them since my banishment from the poll fornication headquarters knows as Pharyngula or better knows as fornicatyngula.
Anyone know why i was banished and how I can exercei my first amenmdent rights there again? Oh well. I guees only liberals have free speech. Tyranny is not something to laugh about.
"That's a monumentally loaded question. Regardless how any older person feels about the wisdom of the Medicare program, they've been taxed at confiscatory rates their entire lives to pay for it."
We're also taxed to pay for a massive public education system, Matt, but people (particularly wealthier ones) opt out of using it all the time. If these people thought medicare was such a raw deal, they can use an alternatives.
Of course, they really can't, since as anyone with even a perfunctory familiarity with healthcare economics knows, adverse selection gets in the way of insurance companies taking on high risk customers like the elderly.
" ... they've been taxed at confiscatory rates their entire lives to pay for it."
Umm, no. I think if you check the actual tax rates, you will find that they are not confiscatory. Yes, you have to pay taxes, but no, taxes do not confiscate your income. Almost anyone taxed at the highest marginal rate is considered wealthy by almost anyone not taxed at that rate. And the maximum marginal rate actually went down by nearly 30 percent about 20 years ago.
Oh, I'm sorry. I just realized that you don't live on this planet.
have to admit, it'll be nice to see conservative protesters on the wrong end of tear gas and tazers. It's funny how when anyone left of Limbaugh protests absolutely anything we get a hundred videos of police brutality, yet conservatives protest things all the time in far more aggressive ways and we never hear of them getting beaten. I wonder what the reason for that could be. "
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Conservatives protest out of concern for their individual freedom. So far we have not become violent in the opposition of socialism. It may come, but we cannot be certain of it.
However liberal protesters usually light fires, throw rocks, parade profanity signs around, fight with police, are loud and disruptive, and often destroy property.
That's the difference. We are more civilized. You all act like heathens and need a good beating to get your attitude straightened out.
Speaking of attitudes, where is the PZ Myers poll fornication instigators at? I haven;t made contact with that species since I was ineffectivelky banned from fornicatyngula.
I believe the Medicare tax is around 2% on income. For that 2%, you essentially get all of your health care provided after age 65. In what universe is 2% 'confiscatory?'
Sorry, Matt, I love your blog, but my respect for you just dropped by an order of magnitude.
"guardian"...
Is English a second language for you?
Matt, you would opt out of SS & medicare if you had the option?
How do you plan on getting coverage @ 65? How on Earth will you pay for health insurance on your own after 50?
Keep the "socialism" meme going and see what things look like in 20 years.
No I am American and the official language of America is English. We on the right have declared it the official language and will continue to call it so whether you like it or not. We simply cannot wait for falied lawyers in Congress to do something. We had to do it ourselves.
So yes, English is the national official language that I speak. Thank you for caring.
Now, wanna fornicate some polls? Just ask PZ MYers and his mindless Pharyngulabots what the treu meaning of poll fornication really means.
"Now, wanna fornicate some polls? Just ask PZ MYers and his mindless Pharyngulabots what the treu meaning of poll fornication really means."
Obsess much?
Here is a great blog about the current healthcare crisis:
http://robhood.us/weblog.php
If by "great," you mean devoid of facts, and written by someone who stopped taking their meds, then yes, that is a great blog about the healthcare crisis.
You keep using that word, "great." I do not think it means what you think it means.
Matt,
Dude, you are a graduate at a state university that my taxes are supporting and have been before you were born. I am paying for your goddamned tuition. The only thing that keeps me from getting any angrier at your idiotic attitude is that I am a professor at the same school, so your taxes (if any) are supporting me, too. If you really are opposed to us helping each other out, feel free to move to the fucking moon.
Matt says (#3):"As a young person I'd opt out of Social Security and Medicare in a heartbeat if I could."
As you are a thoughtful person, then you'd have undoubtedly saved for your retirement by investing in the stock market (or gold?). How's your 401k these days? (Or was it all in Goldman Sachs stock?). And then, if you have family, you'd pay for an insurance to pay 'survivor's benefits' [also provided by Social Security].
And you probably would like to get health insurance, on the 'free market.' Well, after age 65, what's the premium for that? (And remember, you might have accumulated a pre-existing condition in the mean time). Well, once you get sick, the insurance company might just decide to investigate if you lied on your application, 10 years ago. But don't worry, recission happens to only 0.5% each year (well, that's 0.5% of all policies, but only 5% of insured have significant claims, so it's 10%, or even more..., a rather high probability, when you actually need it); see
http://tauntermedia.com/2009/07/28/unconscionable-math/
for a nice application of conditional probability.
The fact of life is, that 20+% of your payment to private insurers goes into overhead, administration to deny claims and reject the possibly sick, CEO salaries..., but for Medicare the overhead, including fraud and abuse is like 3%.
And there is rationing (look at your insurance card, doesn't it say something like 'All treatments must be pre-approved by calling 1-888-xxxx'). So a public option, with your current insurance premium payment, would have - more money - to pay to doctors, hospitals, pharmacists... rather than overhead.
There's a lot of money for the insurance industry in avoiding a public option, so they can easily pay for a Brooks Brothers Brigade to spread confusion. And they do now.
(There's the www_joinpatientsfirst_com/bus-tour, their master organization, americansforprosperity.org also also supports global-warming denials [probably for a fee])
"Guardian"...
Irony is really lost on you, isn't it?
I just realized Matt is Matt of "Built on Facts." Talk about irony.
And if on that application you listed the date of your appendectomy as happening in 1973, they'll use that 15-20% overhead to investigate and discover that it actually happened in 1972, and then drop you after 20 years of payments. Or golly, your wrote that it happened at Masachusetts [sic] General, and there's no such hospital! Hahaha on you. Clearly a fraudulent application.
The secret of the health insurance business: it's not profitable to pay out big, so they pay a hefty premium to avoid doing so. The secret of government paid health insurance: it's not about profit.
Our Ancestors did not have the problem of Healthcare Insurance. Most of them never had a chance to have insurance or subsidized healthcare, nor was there much use for it as Medicine was pretty inept. You went to the doctor to die, or if he could fix you, you could pay him with 2 chickens.
But now you can spend almost an infinite amount of wealth on chasing immortality. Medicine in now high tech. What is going to be the limit or governor on how much a society will spend on the individual. Socialized medicine can run amok very quickly. Adocates for the sickly champion the cause and cling onto the support infrustructure for employment. The capitalist strive to figure out how develop new "necessary Treatments" and rape the system for profit. Multiple forces working diligently to bankrupt this society.
You tried to point out the irony that 1/2 the people were against socialized medicine but on Medicare. We as Americans do not really have a choice on Medicare. If you get paid by somebody else, Medicare taxes are with held. The real irony is that the other 1/2 of the people were to stupid to realize they had socialized (at least partial). Actually we defacto have fully socialized medicine. Nobody in this country really goes with out Medicine. They might have to struggle for it a little, and some might actually get denied some service. But from this point on in time there is going to be medical procedures are just too expensive to any Healthcare system can offer to the public. There is going to be rationing, Socialized Single Payer or Private Insurer.
Clearly our current situation is unsustainable. The two sides of the aisle are looking for "Reform". Obama's crew want more universal coverage, the Libertarians want none, the Republicans want better ways for their capitalist backers to rape the current system. The first two are "Reforms", the last is just business as usual. The Homer Simpson Public of course wants everything in life to be free and easy.
Who knows how the debate will play out. It seems all side are just going to mud sling, Bloggers included, and real Socialism/Libertarism debate will not occur. We'll probally just wallow in middle of the road Democracy and end up with the mediocre middle.
Guardian of the Poll, please define the terms "socialism", "communism", "Marxism", "liberalism" and "fascism". I'm not sure you're using them correctly.
Also, you say "We want our freedom back and the governemtn [sic] to be downsized by a minimum of 65%." 65% of what? How are you measuring this? 65% of employees? 65% of spending? Does this involve all government departments and affiliated programs and organizations?