Joe Wilson is Taking Some Heat

Seth Goldstein (@sethgoldstein) is suing South Carolina Rep. Joe Wilson for "Being Delusional, Disrespectful, And Childish During President Obama's Speech". Join the case, cast your vote and add your argument - http://bit.ly/AllRise255

The apology is meaningless. He's basically a toddler who did someone wrong, and his mom told him to apologize or he won't get his cookie. I don't care so much that he was rude and disrespectful, and I'm not impressed by an apology. What bothers me is that he was simply and clearly wrong when he insisted the Obama was lying, and so I'd really like to see him accepting reality. If he doesn't realize that he's living a delusion, none of this politeness stuff even matters.

As a member of the National Guard Reserve, he could be court-martialed for behaving that way towards his commander-in-chief.

This is a sign of how badly the Right-Wing propaganda machine has radicalized this nation. Particularly since Joe Wilson was WRONG about the details of fact under question in his outburst...

I wish he would have thrown a shoe.

Joe Wilson = Speaking Truth to Power.

His apology is not enough. He should be censured and then he should resign in disgrace.

Did he actually do anything wrong - in a rule breaking sense that is, not in a being a twat sense.

For example, in the UK a Member of Parliament accusing any other Member of outright lying would be promptly told to apologise by the Speaker right there and then or be removed form the House because that sort of thing just isn't done. (Although it has lead to all sorts of silly vocal gymnastics as people try to say that without actually saying it - and all manner of other slagging off goes past ok as long as it's not too personal.)

So if he's actually done something wrong in that sense, he shouldn't be let off with a slap on the wrist via apology.

If it was just unbecoming asshattery then, hm. Actually I think he still needs taking down as you put it just because it was a pathetic display and leaders and representatives should be above that.

The apology is meaningless. He's basically a toddler who did someone wrong, and his mom told him to apologize or he won't get his cookie.

Public apologies in general are meaningless. They seem to mean "I recognize that this has made me unpopular" more than anything else. Although this means it would make a very strong statement if someone refused apologize when called to.

The fact that he's parroting propaganda bothers me, but not the fact that he stood up and yelled. I wish more congressmen had the balls to do that when Bush was telling lies that got us into Iraq. If someone is lying to gain support for a war that's going cause the death of thousands of innocent people, screw decorum.

Mike H @4,
Speaking: No, shouted. Rudely.
Truth: No, Joe lied in point of fact.
to Power: Yes, and to the rest of congress polite enough to keep their mouths shut while the President was speaking.

Joe Wilson acted (and probably is) an ass. Either he's bought into the right wing loonisphere's manufactroversy machine or he's not bright enough to read and decide on his own. Either way, he now represents people so crazy he probably wouldn't associate with them in public.

This answers a question for me. I had begun to wonder: is there no behaviour so shameful that members of the GOP would speak out against it? "Death Panel" lies, Sarah Palin continues to repeat, and GOP figures such as Newt and the RNC Chairperson refuse to disown it. The previous administration committed torture, treason, and who knows what else, and GOP politicians didn't blink an eye. So finally, we know that there is actually behaviour that is beneath them, and that they would speak out against.

Mike H.: Joe Wilson = Speaking Truth to Power.

pththththt. Even supposing he were speaking truth, imagine if someone shouted out like that every time W had lied. He wouldn't have been able to finish a paragraph.

The "apology" might need some careful spin to his constituents to keep it from hurting him next year, but if he does it right he can play it as a "party loyalty" sacrifice on his part.

Even if people take it at face value, it won't cancel out the big boost that the original incident (and subsequent news coverage) give him going into the election.

@Captain Obvious #6,

Perhaps Rule #17? http://www.rules.house.gov/ruleprec/111th.pdf (see page 30)

Ugh, wish I could edit. Also #23 is perhaps an applicable rule?

The "apology" might need some careful spin to his constituents to keep it from hurting him next year

Good point. He's screwed. The South will not rise again if its leaders have to apologize to a black man.

#3 Albatross

I think in this case being a member of the National Guard reserve is irrelevant. He was there as an elected representative not as a National Guard reserve and we should be extremely careful not to limit the speech of elected representatives on the grounds they are in the reserve forces. It is a bit trickier for active military who are elected representatives (though that is quite rare) but once on the House or Senate floor their speech should not be limited by military law only by House or Senate rules. His apology should be public and on the floor of the House just as his insult was.

[6]
Did he actually do anything wrong - in a rule breaking sense that is, not in a being a twat sense.

Yes, he broke two rules. He interrupted the President when the President had the floor. And, he spoke disrespectfully to the Commander and Chief. As a member of congress he could be censured for the first. As a member of the National Guard he could be CM'ed for the second.

If it was just unbecoming asshattery then, hm. Actually I think he still needs taking down as you put it just because it was a pathetic display and leaders and representatives should be above that.

Actually, he already needed to be taken down. If he was not a person who already needed to be taken down, I would not suggest taking him down for a momentary outburst. This is just the straw, the camel's back is heavily laden already.

Larian: Nice. Where does it say what bad things happen to you when you break the rules?

He says he "disagrees with the President" in his apology. There can be no disagreement about fact. There is a section in the bill which is essentially titled "Coverage will not be available for illegal aliens".(I don't have time to look it up but it's been posted elsewhere.)
Imagine the furor if some Dem had yelled at Bush like this...

Obama should have stopped at that point, pointed to Wilson, and said, "Will you repeat that under oath? No, then I am calling you out now for lying in public."

The progressives would have given him a thunderous standing ovation, and the GOP would look like criminals.

As I imply in my minor revision to this post, I just saw Wilson talking about the apology, and he clearly states he was forced to do it and he does not indicate anything about its sincerity. Not that I really care, but it does need to be noted that there really wasn't an apology.

Rose: I would like to have seen something like that!!!!!

Mike H.

During Bush's administration, anyone making any kind of dissenting argument, no matter how reasonable or eloquent was labeled as unamerican or worse. This guy throws a tantrum and he's speaking truth to power?

Go play with your dolls. The grown-ups are talking.

On the bright side, it's been a fund-raising boon for his Democratic challenger Rob Miller. The Boston Globe reported he got approximately $100,000 in donations (about $30 average) in eight hours.

Poking ActBlue, he's raised nearly a quarter million. Last night, he was under $25,000; possibly under $5000, since I didn't look until about midnight. And, of course, his website was crashed (and hastily redirected to the Act Blue donation page) by the hordes of people beating a path to his door to throw money at him.

The latest I heard is that he's well over 200 large since last night. Raised against him, that is.

During Bush's administration, anyone making any kind of dissenting argument, no matter how reasonable or eloquent was labeled as unamerican or worse. This guy throws a tantrum and he's speaking truth to power?

Sorry, but I gotta call shenanigans on your bullshit.

Flashback: Democrats Boo Bush At 2005 State Of The Union
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/09/10/flashback_democrats_b…

Mike, H, you freakin' moron. The democrats who could not contain themselves at that time were called anti-american. Are you illiterate or something?

Plus they were totally right and he was totally wrong. That matters.

Again, I think Congress should censure Wilson by taking away his health care for however long he remains in office

The democrats who could not contain themselves at that time were called anti-american.

Mr Laden, please specific, which individual or organization labeled the democrats who booed the president during 2005 SOTU speech?

Specifics (you know, links and all that) would be nice.

Talking out of you ass will only get you so far Mr Laden so run along now.

Mike H... you need look no farther than your own web site for the appropriate link.

The point of my post was to point out how your post missed the poi... oh, never mind.

he clearly states he was forced to do it and he does not indicate anything about its sincerity.

And his poll numbers shoot even higher.

Mike H... you need look no farther than your own web site for the appropriate link.

Not seeing anything there Mr Laden ...... care to try again?

Once more, which individual or organization labeled the democrats who booed the president during 2005 SOTU speech? Please be as specific (providing a link along with a direct quote would be super) as you can.

The point of my post was to point out how your post missed the poi... oh, never mind.

Its kind of fun to see you back peddle Mr Laden, but the internet has a long memory.

Mike H. - Despite the inflated headline associated with it, that video to which you linked shows Democrats reacting to Bush's statements, but it was nothing like what that fool Wilson did last night. That's pretty weak, Mike.

Also, your "Are You Dumb" test is pretty dumb - and possibly racist. (Click his name to see what I mean, folks.)

Also, your "Are You Dumb" test is pretty dumb - and possibly racist. (Click his name to see what I mean, folks.)

Elaborate.

Not seeing anything there Mr Laden ...... care to try again?

Sorry, Mike, with all DUE respect, I think I could dry utill the cows come home and you are not going to get it.

Sorry, I meant to say "until the cows fall off the cliff"

Oh, this is so much fun. I really should get back to work now...

Sorry, Mike, with all DUE respect, I think I could dry utill the cows come home and you are not going to get it.

Thats an odd way saying: "I have no documentable evidence to back what I previously said, which in retrospect was a complete crock of shit, so I am going to obfuscate by insulting you".

Welcome to the SS Reality Based Community with you captain Mr Laden.

Actually, Mike, regarding your complaint, no, I'm not going to do your HOMEWORK for you. I think everyone here remembers, oh, a few months ago when Bush was still president and Republicans were constantly accusing Dems of not being patriotic, or of violating national security, if they opposed Teh President or disagreed with Republican values.

Do you not remember any of this?

Actually, Mike, regarding your complaint, no, I'm not going to do your HOMEWORK for you. I think everyone here remembers, oh, a few months ago when Bush was still president and Republicans were constantly accusing Dems of not being patriotic, or of violating national security, if they opposed Teh President or disagreed with Republican values

Now now Mr Laden, dont change the subject. We were speaking specifically of the 2005 SOTU adress when the democrats bood and jeered Bushâs (rather accurate) estimate on the health of socail security. When you said:

Mike, H, you freakin' moron. The democrats who could not contain themselves at that time were called anti-american.

âAt that timeâ being the 2005 SOTU adress.

So Mr Laden, one more time, what individual or organization called democrats who booed and jeered the president during the 2005 SOTU address anti-American?

We all know the answer is âno one did thatâ, but I just like to see you dig your way out of this rhetorical hole you are in. Its super keen fun!

And finally, if you want to know where I'm really at, just check my web site.

Footage on DailyKos of Wilson flipping out during a debate on C-SPAN with Dem Rep. Bob Filner of California, shouting at him and ranting about his âhatred of America.â

Wilson claimed Filner was lying, saying that Iraq had purchased chemical weapons from the "former Soviet Union," ignoring the fact that the Iran-Iraq War ended in 1988, while the USSR still existed, and, more importantly, that the U.S. had in fact made such sales

@gregladen

The latest I heard is that he's well over 200 large since last night. Raised against him, that is.

It's over $450K and growing.

I tend to agree with what Mike the Mad Biologist wrote about this. The "incivility" isn't the problem -- would that someone in Congress had called out GWB when he was lying! The problem is that Wilson clearly either didn't read the bill in question (which specifically excludes illegal immigrants,) or else was deliberately trying to stir up trouble with a nice big loud lie of his own.

Bushâs (rather accurate) estimate on the health of socail security

I can't speak to his accuracy on socail security. On Social Security, he was about as accurate as he was with Iraqi WMD's however.

Mike H: Total Intellect FAIL

I think Mike H. is gone. Too bad, because I was just going to introduce him to the Dixie Chicks.

I think Mike H. is gone. Too bad, because I was just going to introduce him to the Dixie Chicks.

Huh? Either that was the lamest attempt to deflect your complete ass kicking here or you have got to put the glitter gold krylon and paper bag down.

Check my web site for more details.

imagine if someone shouted out like that every time W had lied. He wouldn't have been able to finish a paragraph.

W was able to finish a paragraph?

What in the world are you numbnuts talking about... rude? I wonder what it was like when our country first started. A bunch of ex-british subjects all sitting around having a jolly good time, sipping tea and schnapps, perhaps a crumpet or two? while they all just calmly talked over how they were going to ask the British to "please" get their lowly arses out of our new country. I don't think that this man was RUDE... I think he was RIGHTEOUS!!! Sometimes you cannot get anyone to hear anything but "We got change!" whatever that means? AND sometimes people want the truth instead. You go Joe. Through your hat in for Pres. next time.

What in the world are you numbnuts talking about... rude? I wonder what it was like when our country first started. A bunch of ex-british subjects all sitting around having a jolly good time, sipping tea and schnapps, perhaps a crumpet or two? while they all just calmly talked over how they were going to ask the British to "please" get their lowly arses out of our new country. I don't think that this man was RUDE... I think he was RIGHTEOUS!!! Sometimes you cannot get anyone to hear anything but "We got change!" whatever that means?
AND sometimes people want the truth instead.
Did any of you morons learn ANYTHING from your 12 years of government education? I did and I think if you look toward your history lessons you will find that not everyone was so polite as you lefty, do gooder dummycrats want everyone to believe!!!
Does no one remember? "GIVE ME LIBERTY, OR GIVE ME DEATH!" no doubt spoken in a whisper at a small resturant in Philidelphia where the kitchen noise all but covered it... NO!!! THESE men spoke the loudest where it did the most good... FULLY in public and TOTALLY against those who would have stopped this great country from separating with those lousy, uncivilized, British.
You go Joe. Through your hat in for Pres. next time.

Patrick Henry,
You haven't read anything about the health care bill at all have you? Just watch the tube and listen to Rush? Sad but even sadder that you have a few people just like you shouting but not reading or understanding anything too.

Joe 'asshole' Wilson's shout about a lie was, in itself, a lie. There is a provision in the bill restricting access to health care for illegals. Your hatred and bigotry are safe and protected.

Mind you, the illegals aren't gong away, but they and their kids will now be un-vaccinated and sicker making our environments less healthy and reducing yet further our herd immunity.

I guess you will understand little of what I said but go ahead, shout all you like supporting a fool of a representative if that makes you feel better.

CNN is now saying $500,000. I heard from a friend that the total now is closer to $700,000 but can't find a source right now saying that.

@Joshua Zelinsky

I heard from a friend that the total now is closer to $700,000 but can't find a source right now saying that.

I put a link to his ActBlue page in a previous comment(#41). It's now up to $768K.

Through ActBlue. There are probably other sources. I'd bet the total pot is over 1 mil. We'll do it again as election approaches if the bastard has not resigned yet.

Wilson will probably win because they usually do, but the RNCCC will have to spend two or three congressional campaigns worth to make that happen. This is a good tactic, and it is all about tactics.

Wilson has apparently raised 200,000 since the remarks. This is helping him too but clearly not nearly as much. See http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/11/wilson.fundraising/index.html

Good. one million raised to run against him will require a million run on his side. It does not matter who wins. What matters is how many million the RNCCC has to spend to keep their icon-boy alive. The funny part is that the Republicans do not see Wilson as their man. He is not well liked. He's considered to be an absolute idiot and he gets personal joy out of not following the party line. When those party leaders sat down and talked to him yesterday (or the night before) they told him more than "you've gotta apologize." THey also collected on his first born.

Weighing in late but there is an interesting post that I saw pointing out that Mr. Wilson is not only uncivil and dumb but he is also a hypocrite. Turns out he, his wife and four sons are covered by a government run single payer system that also employs its own doctors - no not the congressional system, rather TRICARE. If he believes that health care reform will lead to government takeover of the health system and that would be bad I would expect as a patriotic citizen he would renounce his right to TRICARE, which he is quoted as declaring is a great system. I wonder, Mike H., who provides your insurance, any of the government run systems that have existed for decades under both R and D administraions -TRICARE, Medicare, Medicade?

Mike H [45]: I think it's cute that you have two main words in your bibliography: "Huh" and "Lame"

[39] Now now Mr Laden, dont change the subject. We were speaking specifically of the 2005 SOTU adress

Actually no we weren't I was referring to the incidents too numerous to enumerate that occurred while Bush was president. I don't know anything about your 2005 SOTU address, but I have a feeling if I bothered to look into it I would find information that would embarrass you.