Annals of McCain - Palin, XVI: background for the Palin - Biden debate

She actually did pretty well during the debate. I was expecting her to fall on her face.

She said what she was told to say. Give it a couple of weeks and she will be back to normal. We can all have a good laugh then.

I don't understand. You've all been laughing at her and saying she'd fall off the stage. Yet she holds her own and you simply say, "Well, so what?"

Obviously, she will never be qualified in your eyes and most of you have admitted that.

Joe Biden did a great job last night. Personally, I disagree with some of his ideas, but I thought he won the debate and there were times he sounded convincing to me. There were times I said to myself...maybe he's worth a try. Maybe their ideas are worth trying. As long as it doesn't raise taxes too much (and they say they won't) and it doesn't put us further into debt.

But I don't care who you are. Palin did a wonderful job in a very new and difficult situation. She IS ready to be the second in command as long as she is surrounded by good advisors, JUST AS OBAMA will be.

One other thing, I was surprised by her tolerance of gays and had she said anything different, I wonder how the gay community and liberals in general, would have reacted. I was also surprised to learn that Biden and Palin agreed on the issue of same sex marriage. That was news to me.

There are MANY issues that we all agree on. There are some that we don't. We need to work towards some type of solution on the ones we don't (Iraq) and strive to do our very best on the issues we already agree on (like cutting the deficit).

But I think you MUST give Palin some props for last nights debate. She is obviously a better person than you give her credit for.

Patch: It was not we who said Palin would fall on her face. It was the conservative press that was pushing the line to depress expectations. Most people on our side knew she was a good debater (the Alaska debate clips were well known). Regarding her "tolerance," she said what she had to say. But she has been very gay unfriendly and coddles the homophobic streak characteristic of her cohorts. I don't think anyone in that community was fooled.

Regarding working towards comity, her performance, whether you thought it was good or bad, was certainly designed to promote divisiveness and polarization, i.e., shore up the base. She succeeded there. She gets no props from me because she didn't sound in the debate the way she sounded in her interviews.

C'mon Revere. I watch the news...I hear Rachael Maddow and Keith Oberman. And I read what people say here. You yourself, are even pointing (in your last sentence) to her poor interviews. The truth is, there were few Obama supporters that expected her to hold up as well as she did. Period.

She DID debate pretty well in Alaska. And that should prove she's more than an idiot, but many here would not give her that credit. Moreover, this was an entirely different debate. Against an experienced politician with the eyes of the world on her, with approximately 50% of America just salivating for her to make a mis-step.

Did she win? I already said, probably not. But she is NOT the dufus most liberals make her out to be.

And I would disagree entirely, that her "performance" was designed to promote divisiveness and polarization any more than Biden's was. I mean..isn't the point of a debate to convince? Defining a position is necessary in convincing people of your position. On many things, they are opposed. She did a good job, therefore, in defining her position, if you feel she was "divisive".

Biden was just as divisive. If you can't see that I question your objectivity. And if you can't be objective, a discussion is senseless.

Her statement last night indicated to me, that she was tolerant of the gay lifestyle. Promote it? No. But would tolerate it. Are you suggesting that promoting it is the only way to be tolerant?

C'mon Revere, throw me a bone here.

Patch: Everyone has been spinning this like crazy, but for the record, the Obama spin prior to the debate was that she was a great debater:

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/plouffe_palin_i…

As for citing the interviews, how could anyone not comment on them. A structured debate with essentially no follow up is not the same as an interview, so her performance does not "cancel them out."

My take on the debate (short) will be up this afternoon. It was written immediately after the debate last night and has not been edited since. Take it FWIW.

My view on Palin was that "I am middle America and I resent her talking as if we are all country bumpkins". I raised my children and we sat around the kitchen table, but I certainly didn't act like some flighty broad with a smirky "You Betcha" and Joe Sixpack (all I can do is drink) attitude. My home was used for thoughtful debate, encouragement and hope. Yes, we smiled and we laughed, but we've enountered hard times as well and we don't have more than one home and that home was one we could afford. Yes, I am middle American, but with a sense of dignity.

Great Debater...maybe. Experienced politician....no. They were expecting to eat her alive.

Obama / Biden say, that their campaign is all about change.

But let me ask. If you support their ticket and REALLY want change, don't you need new people? Sarah Palin is NEW. Look, she's going to fumble on answers, just as she did in the interview. She simply CAN NOT know it all right now. Once in office, she'll be surrounded by advisors giving her and John McCain every angle. She will be making informed decisions, based on the information she gets.

In concentrating on the interviews and that style, you appear to be hoping for a train wreck. And I'm not sure why other than because she's a Republican.

You don't like her policies...fine. But Gov. Palin has demonstrated that she DOES have the ability to make good decisions when she is well informed. Alaskans (at least a majority of them) know that.

I believe, that Palin would serve us (or more to the point, McCain) well.

In this case at least, I'd respect your opinion much more if you argued the platform, not the person. I think she's doing just fine and she is someone I could choose as a leader.

Ann, you said:

"My view on Palin was that "I am middle America and I resent her talking as if we are all country bumpkins". "

I couldn't disagree more. I am middle American as well and I'm not sure how you misinterpreted her tone as "if we are all country bumpkins."

If anything, I was a little turned off by her constant mention of Alaska or "up there". She is after all, running for office for the UNITED STATES. But by no means, did she separate herself as "better" than the average woman or family. I think you misinterepted that.

The McCain team didn't put this dreadfully ignorant, self-deluding creature out there to debate; that should have been excruciatingly obvious to anyone who gave what could only be described as "her performance" even the most cursory examination. They sent her out there to avoid answering any questions with direct, spontaneous responses, at all costs; and to instead substitute a canned stump speech, wherever possible. She's a trained seal. And she did what was expected of her. The few times that she deviated from her handlers' closely circumscribed prattle, the reality of the "colossal moron" was suddenly made manifest. The woman is utterly incapable of putting together the least demanding, nominally articulate, structurally coherent thought. She serves only to illustrate how remarkably ethically impoverished, and intellectually dishonest, John McCain truly is. Sarah is a monumentally ignorant, narcissistic fucking clown! And McCain is one truly and profoundly devious, deeply disturbed human being.

Patch.....from her description of life, we must all work and go home to sit at the table and drink beer. I'm sorry, but our life consists of doing all sorts of activities as family, neighbors, community, etc. I have nothing against an occasional beer, but middle America is much more than Joe Sixpack. PS. I am the mayor of a small community too so don't think I can't relate to women, family and country.

Ann - While I'm not sure what your status of Mayor contributes, I hope you don't make the same assumptions in your role as mayor that you do here. I don't believe she was referring to anything "literal" in the phrase "Joe Sixpack". In fact, I think she was referring to a guy with "Six Pack Abs". C'mon...you are splitting hairs here! She meant to say that she is part of "middle America". She appears to be, to me.

I think sitting around the table as a family IS important, whether it's over a beer, a glass of wine or a cup of coffee.

Dylan - First congratulations on your English degree. I'm not sure raising yourself above us mere mortals is warranted, but so be it. In the real world, where I live, we all of our faults. Some of John McCain's developed as a result of sitting in a POW camp. You have NO CLUE, Dylan, who John McCain is, or anything about his life. I'm guessing you barely know what his stance is on issues. And I'm not sure who made you judge of ethics and intellectual integrity. In fact, I'm not sure your views on either would parallel a majority of Americans. Certainly dropping the F Bomb in reference to Palin is contradictory, at least to my generation. To spew vile hatred isn't particularly productive to your cause.

I may not agree with Obama's or Biden's stance on issues, but I certainly respect them as human beings and believe that they THINK they are doing the right thing. Joe Biden was a gentleman during the debate, to perfection. I would never describe them as you have McCain / Palin, simply because they had a different view. And your views are "ethical" and "intellectual"?

If so, it's incredible what this country is coming to.

I used to find myself defending my views on bird flu wondering how I could be the only one who thinks like I do. I find myself in the same situation....wondering....am I the ONLY one who see's through Dylan??

Sarah Palin is NEW.

It's not new to take an extreme stance against abortion. It's not new to put the extraction industries over renewable energy. It's not new to deny gay citizens the rights that straight citizens have. It's not new to pretend that there's something essential and irreducible about national security that Republicans "get" and Dems don't. It's not new to overstate and broaden executive authority.

The only thing new about Palin is Palin herself. Her political convictions are the same ones that have driven this country into a ditch, and they represent a rejection of virtually everything I understand the Constitution to guarantee.

Phila,

Were you listening?? Or were you to busy warping everything she said?

1. Whose stance is extreme on abortion? Doesn't that depend on your point of view? I think murdering an unborn baby is pretty extreme. Should women have a choice? Maybe. Maybe they should...especially in some cases. But I'm not sure the decision should be left solely to an expectant mother during an emotional hormone storm.

2. I believe McCain / Palin are interested in renewable resources as well as extracting fossil fuels.

3. I think she said, specifically in fact, that gay citizens should have the same rights as straight, with the EXCEPTION of same sex marriages. I believe Biden said that too. They seemed to be pretty much in agreement on that issue.

4. National Security...you mean the war in Iraq and Afghanistan? OK...here, her view may differ from yours. But is pulling out of Iraq a "new" idea? A change..yes. But a new idea? Hardly.

5. I think the VP authority thing was one of her RARE mistakes of the debate. I'm not sure where she was going with that. It certainly is NEW to give the VP more executive authority. I know you think the current VP overstepped his bounds, but legally changing the authority....C'mon...did you hear MSNBC hammering that last night? If that's true..that's a NEW idea.

6. I don't disagree that our country has been driven into the ditch. I think there were more than a few democrats taking their turn driving! But I sincerely believe that the freedoms of the constitution are exemplified by the Republican party and certainly more so than the more socialistic Democratic party.

Come on people. After what Bush did to this country, I figured we had enough with idiots! We have lost all credibility in the world every time Bush opens his mouth. Now with Palin lying and incompetent... we have become a joke to the rest of the world. What an embarrassment!