Palin comparison, II: teen pregnancy and sex education

There appears to be insufficient evidence for your assertion about Palin that:
"her version of compassionate conservatism...Cold indifference:"
We do not know (1) whether this $5m was an increase on the previous year's allocation, (2) whether alternative provisions were made elsewhere for those disadvantaged teen mothers.
I know the saying "actions speak louder than words", but when an admitted political activist chooses which actions to report, I become suspicious that the actions quoted might give a biased impression to a neutral observer.

Recalling W's assertion, "you're either with us or you're against us," I'd suggest the 'neutral observer' is a stalking horse.

Dubya does talk a crock a s**t, doesn't he?

bar: Perhaps. But of all states in the union, Alaska is awash in money. They don't need to pinch pennies and you will see in tomorrow's post that Ms. Palin doesn't pinch pennies when it comes to ideology, especially with regard to sex.

The selection of Palin is an insult to women. We want the right woman for the job, not just ANY woman.

Her attitude of 'pro-life & anti-pregnancy' is all too familiar. Point is, if a girl/woman has unprotected sex and pregnacy is the ONLY thing that occurs, then she's pretty damn lucky. Telling your mom you have HIV or AIDS or even a STD that has irrevocably scarred up your reproductive system is a good bit worse. What does she do to help out OTHER teenage or unwed mothers in her state? That is walking the talk; what I see and hear from Palin is just more ultra-right wing neo-con hot air.

The most frightening thing I can think of is the McCain-Palin ticket actually winning. The American public health system is on its' deathbed, that ticket will just push it over into the grave. Not for them-they'll still have access to their own great care, it's the rest of us that will want to sign up for the Canadian provencial health system.

Her husband wants Alaska to leave the USA? If his wife gets elected, so will the rest of us.

Revere: "Here's what Palin said in the Eagle Forum questionnaire given to all gubernatorial candidates in 2006 (the Forum website has now been scrubbed):

Will you support funding for abstinence-until-marriage education instead of for explicit sex-education programs, school-based clinics, and the distribution of contraceptives in schools?

Answer: Yes, the explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support..."

Palin's delusional anti-science ideology -- misperceiving the complexities of human sexuality as a scripted social engineering template -- may appear to be retro-attractive to those (yawn, of course) white Babyboomers who totally agreed with 1960s television station manager/owners censoring their studio production teams from showing Elvis Presley's gyrating hips!

The forced (bipolar?) attempt to control other peoples (bi, hetero, queer, etc) psychosexuality IS a mental illness...

It's important to take a quantitative approach to the appeal to [white] women issue, especially the exemplar comments from Hillary dead enders and the Repubs at the convention.

One data source is the 2004 exit poll data

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0…

and another is the cross tabs on gallup

http://www.gallup.com/poll/108031/Candidate-Support-Gender-Among-Whites…

White women voted 55 to 45 for Bush in 2004, and were majority against Clinton both times. Gore got a push. The perfect storm is married, not living in a big city, no graduate education, not working out of the home and going to church regularly. Cross tabs aren't published, but 80% Bush-McCain in that sector would not surprise. There's likely a lot of confounding here.

The effect of graduate education needs explaining, especially since confounded with increased income, which predicts Republican. It provides some explanation for the resonance of the charge of "elitism."

Bottom line is white women are in majority conservatives and vote Republican, although not as conservative as white men. Including so-called Independents. So random quotes are going to be anti Barak and pro Palin. Among the Hillary dead-enders, I concede there are some progressive activists, but the question is who did they vote for before.

Young people have been getting pregnant "by accident" for as long as I know. It will continue.

Therefore, it can not and will not be 100% effective, but the best birth control begins with teaching kids morals and self discipline, in the home and around the kitchen table. With two parents setting a good example and laying down the framework.

It eases our guilt to blame our kids mistakes (and ours too) on "society" or "inevitability". But we can make a difference, we aren't helpless. We've fooled ourselves into believing we can do it by going to a couple soccer games and giving our kids ipods and cell phones and trying too hard to be their best friend.

Being a parent is hard work...and you do have to work at it. You have to make unpopular decisions and sometimes even get second guessed by other parents.

So...How do I feel about Gov. Palin and abortion? I used to feel "choice" was a right. But I've changed my mind...because being a parent is a privilege. One that should not be taken lightly. And a life is precious. Being a parent, showed me the light.

How many of you advocating "choice" are parents? And how many of you, took the REAL responsibility of being a parent seriously?

Apparently Gov Palin has.

Patch, I am a pro choice female, aged 50. My 19 year old daughter is in college, graduated in the top 10% of her HS class, has no desire to pump out kids (her words not mine) and wants to be a police woman hunting down child predators.
I raised her with her dad and stayed at home, even though I have a MS in Economics and an MBA in Finance. She turned out perfectly.
I am the exact opposite of Palin right down the line. I did not run for public office, work outside the home, get involved in dirty tricks, and push my face in front of the TV cameras as VP select for the GOP.
I did and AM doing my job.
Palin is not according to YOUR own words.
She is certainly NOT taking her responsibility as a parent seriously or her daughter would not be knocked up.

Patch, "[How] many of you, took the REAL responsibility of being a parent seriously? Apparently Gov Palin has."

Patch, your sentiments are well placed -- personal responsibility when enacting the role of parent, etc... Obviously, Gov Palin believes she is being a "good parent" via the sociopolitical enactment of her delusional anti-science ideology... But unfortunately for America, anti-science ideology will see an increase in UNPLANNED pregnancies and teenage STDs (including HIV/AIDS), etc. And yes, teenage suicide WILL increase within this paradigm. And fags (yes, like me) don't appear to actually exist within the Dubya/McCain/Palin fundo Christian anti-science sociopolitical ideology -- +/_10% of three hundred million Yanks are queer...

So, what 'bout us lot? Does Palin advocate teaching young queers abstinance before marriage -- or does she believe in the gas chamber!?!

@Patch, I knocked up my girlfriend when she was 19, and we decided to keep our baby. We got married after a few years, had another kid, and ended up divorced. My older daughter is now 13, in pre-AP courses, and not a delinquent. My younger daughter is 8, and looks like she will be about as well adjusted.

We took responsibility for our actions, and made the best lives we could for ourselves, and yes, we are both still pro-choice. A child is a wonderful thing, but a blastocyst is not a child. Every woman needs to decide what is best for her situation.

Giindy,

This is a tough argument to win. Admittedly. And I understand what you are saying. I'm certain you are proud of your daughter as well you should be. You obviously worked hard at being a parent.

Your pro-choice attitude has filtered down to your daughter, who has decided NOT to follow the choice you made in raising a family and following in your footsteps. She has no desire to work on a family, preferring instead to focus on her passion. I have no issue with that. In fact, that might be best in her case.

But you have no idea what Gov Palin's home life is like and it's quite presumptuous for you to speculate as such.

She appears to me, to be raising a fine son, going into the military. Her youngest daughters, again, from what I saw and have heard so far, have acted like they are respectful well mannered young adults. And she has taken the responsibility of raising a special needs child. Having a full time job doesn't necessarily mean that you can not fulfill your responsibilities as a parent. In fact, I've seen plenty of welfare moms (sorry, that sounds so pointed, but I meant "nonworking") who can't fullfil, their parental duties.

I admitted that mistakes have happened and will continue to. Young people don't always make the right choices, even when they've been given the tools (in this case morals) to do so.

In my mind, NO ONE will win an argument on the poor state of current events in the US culture, unless they first admit that many, many parents have screwed up. By the looks of Gov Palin's children, I don't believe she's screwed up.

This young girl is taking responsibility. I believe her mother taught her well.

I'm not for or against homosexuals. I know some homosexuals whose friendship I value. And I know some I'd like to strangle, not because I have something against them, but because they are very antagonistic. I'm a man, who is sexually attracted to women (quite strongly I might add) and I'm repulsed by the idea of me having sex with another man. You can do it...but it's not my cup of tea, so I don't understand it. As long as it remains your business and no other agenda gets pushed, I don't care.

"So, what 'bout us lot? Does Palin advocate America's national school system teaching young queers abstinance-until-same-sex marriage education -- or does she actually believe in the gas chamber!?!"

Patch, I'd really appreciate it if you could comment on Gov Palin's political program positions eg.

"The Eagle Forum questionnaire given to all gubernatorial candidates in 2006: Will you support funding for abstinence-until-marriage education instead of for explicit sex-education programs, school-based clinics, and the distribution of contraceptives in schools? Palin's Answer: Yes, the explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support..."

Patch, scientifically honest and open sex education is vitally important for kids and teens. Not only does it lower the rates of unplanned teen pregnancies and sexually transmitted diseases, the crucial "moral" -- indeed, Tantric -- differences between "sex-making" and "love-making" can be openly explored and explained to hormone overloaded sprogs...

Sex most definitely aint the same as love -- for any human animal!

I can't begin to express how upset I am about Sarah Palin and the possibility she could be VP, not to mention the probability she will be a participant or leader on the national political scene for many years to come. As a feminist I am pro-choice and pro-*quality*-of-life. If a couple create an unwanted pregnancy, I hope a decision to go full-term and keep a baby is made relative to the ability to be invested parents providing a good quality of life for the child. It's not enough to have a child just because you can...
And BTW, I think Bristol keeping the child she is pregnant with isn't the "right decision." The right decision would have been to practice the abstinence her parents were purportedly teaching her. Putting a good face on a bad situation is denial of the personal responsibility abstinence education makes imperative.
And just because you have 5 kids and can hold down a job doesn't make you a good parent. As a feminist, I have advanced degrees and a professional career which I put on hold to care for my child until he entered school.
Palin said last night that the difference between a hockey mom and a pit bull is lipstick...Frankly, I think she forgot her lipstick.

I've yet to find any evidence, that honest and open sex education is vitally important to kids and teens. I asked my parents and while they recall learning the "science" of reproduction, they don't talk about and certainly were not GIVEN condoms.

As I've said at least 3 times now, mistakes happen and even during my parents generation, there were youngsters who got pregnant. But the vast majority (according to my parents and grand parents) simply weren't as promiscius. So..what changed? People? Or values? I know of no phsiological changes that would make explicit sex-ed programs necessary. Perhaps STD are more widespread, but that is the result of more wide spread promiscuity. And that wide spread promiscuity comes from the erosion of our moral fiber.

I'm sorry, but as I said, I'm repulsed by the idea of any type of "love attraction" between myself and someone of my same gender. I am physically and emotionally drawn toward the opposite sex. I think it's entirely possible, that there is either a genetic dispositon or a biological reason that some people are drawn to the same gender. Unfortunately, I think there is some "experimentation" simply because it is more tolerated and I think that's wrong on several levels. Not the least of which is, it may lead to some type of sexual trauma.

Love is not sex...I understand that. I love people but don't have sex with them. And I've had sex on at least one occasion, without love. When I speak with any acceptance of homosexuals, I ASSUME that it is based on love, more than sex...otherwise it's wrong, just as a sexual relationship would be between a man and woman, without love. I don't think youngsters need any help exploring "sex making".

I'm not certain of Gov Palin's stance on all issues. But I do know this.

1. I'm surrounded here, by mostly liberal folks. Which by the way I respect and admire, despite differences in beliefs.
2. I came here strictly for the issues of public health and in particular, bird flu. Not because of any other joint interests in liberal politics.
3. I like Gov Palin not because she is a woman, but because, among other things:

a.) She believes in God
b.) She believes in Life over Abortion
c.) She believes in the right to bear arms
d.) She stands up for what she believes
e.) She isn't the same old Washington crowd.
e.) She seems like an "ordinary person" and someone I like and to this point anyway, identify with.
f.) She believes we should drill, verses not drill
g.) She believes we should research alternative fuel resources, including nuclear power.
h.) I find myself, to this point, agreeing with nearly everything she has said. And I like her.

tejas

I applaud your decision to stay home with your children. I also applaud your accomplishment to further your education and presumably, your career.

Couple questions and a comment:

1. Would you kill 9 puppies because you couldn't properly care for them?

2. Why must you wave your degree's in my face and then insist you made a decision to "put your career on hold". Wasn't the REAL decision you made, to have kids?

3. I'm not sure what a feminist is, but I believe it to be someone who advocates equal rights for women. You aren't a feminist any more than Jesse Jackson is a civil rights advocate. You want YOUR agenda, not equal rights.

As I said, the right decision WOULD HAVE BEEN for Bristol to choose abstinence. But as I have acknowledged, mistakes in judgment happen, especially at that age. Is that a log in your eye?

Another "choice" that Bristol could have made would have been to use birth control. It seems that "choice" was not available to her because her mother made sure she was kept ignorant of such things.

That seems to be the standard operating procedure of the GOP. Keep everyone ignorant of everything that doesn't exactly fit with the GOP agenda. Keep everyone ignorant of alternatives to fossil fuels, ignorant of alternatives to Creationism, ignorant of sex eduation, ignorant of birth control, ignorant of global warming.

daedalus2u:

re:"standard operating procedure of the GOP"

Yeah, mass production of unplanned pregnancies=fodder for min wage jobs in their factories for years to come.

daedalus2u,

Are you suggesting, that Bristol was ignorant of the contraceptive alternatives with all that sex education they get at the public level?

Getting pregnant was a mistake in personal judgment. One mistake that should not lead to another, which in my opinion, would be to terminate her pregnancy. That life is significant.

Surely liberals can understand that killing by abortion is an inconvenient truth??

Do you really want to bring back the coat hanger? Are you sure that you want your tax dollars going to those sluts, the single unwed mothers? Maybe, you think that we should go back into forcing mothers to give up their babies for adoption, that way your tax dollars don't get squandered on sluts. Who cares about the personal trauma's of adoptees, their abandonment issues etc. Oh! Just bring back the days when women in their thousands, every year, died as a result of botched abortions. Instead of sex education and information that might save lives, let's teach abstinence, and let's label women. Bring back the coat hanger!

Does anyone see the hypocrisy here?

We know that Bristol's mother is completely opposed to sex education and education about contraception at the public level and is only in favor of teaching an abstinence only approach to preventing pregnancy.

In my entire life I have only had sex without using birth control when my partner and I were trying to conceive a child. The only children I have conceived have been planned. It is inconceivable to me that I would be so reckless about such an important decision.

What mistake in personal judgment are you saying that Bristol made? Having sex without using birth control? Bristol is a minor child. What ever mistakes she has made, some of the fault lies with her parents for not instilling proper regard for not making such mistakes, for not being reckless with such an important decision.

I suppose that Bristols pregnancy could have been a planned one, but according to what Sarah Palin has said, it wasnt. She said that she was very proud that Bristol made the choice to keep her baby and not abort it. Ironic that Sarah Palin is proud of the choice her daughter was allowed to make, but she wants to deny that choice to every other woman in every other circumstance short of life threatening. Ironic too that she also wants to deny education about contraception to every other minor child too.

Grace, I think not so much for low wage jobs, but for soldiers to go to war. If there are enough young people who can't feed their children except by going into the armed forces, they won't need a draft no matter how many wars the GOP start (so children of rich republicans need never fear being drafted). Also they can keep on paying the soldiers crap and leave them to rot after they get broken by being in war. The NYT has an interesting series on how many veterans have been charged with murder since returning.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2008/01/12/us/20080113_VETS_DATABASE…

It is at 121 so far.

John McCain on NBC's, Meet The Press, 1/30/00

Mr. Russert: "A Constitutional Amendment to ban all abortions?"

McCain: "Yes Sir"
Mr. Russert: "But, Senator, women across the country would say, prior to Roe v. Wade, hundreds of thousands of women a year went to the back alleys to have abortions."
McCain responded: "I understand that."
Mr. Russert: "Many died."
McCain, "I understand that."

Victoria, I copied this above info from an email sent by Nancy Keenan, President, NARAL Pro-Choice America ("Lipstick on a Pig: Privacy/Choice the McCain-Palin Way" September 4, 2008)...

Many Republican Americans cannot appreciate visceral Australian irony eg. your heart wrenching political words, "Do you really want to bring back the coat hanger? Bring back the coat hanger!"

I feel somewhat dazed, actually. John McCain's stance on Meet The Press reminds me of why a bunch of fags joined hands with feminists back in the late 60s and early 70s protesting against a rabidly violent women hating white hetero male dominated America. There is no compassion or empathy in McCain's position... The "sluts" -- as you say -- deserve to die. There is evil here -- an evil which I've experienced as a GenX gay male for over a decade now... A neo-nazi evil!

I so agree with you Jonathon.

This American election is about so much more than voting in a government. This American election has more to do with human rights; for women - the control of their own bodies and lives; for Gay Rights - the right to be treated like everybody else - not better or worse - just the same; for African Americans, Hispanics, Indians, Native Indians, Chinese etc. - the rights to equal opportunities, and the right to be seen as something more than the sum total of the colour of their skins; the rights that every child has to a good education, that is not dependant upon how much money one has; the right to adequate health coverage for all; the right to live in a world where corporations served the people and not their shareholders. In fact this election is not only about America, it is about where the rest of the world wants America to lead us.

Ask yourself this. Who has benefited from crises around the world eg. war, famine, Aids etc? The munitions industry has seen stellar growth, Pharmaceutical companies too have seen unprecedented growth, and Oil companies, well, they just take the cake. Why is it, that with every major war that is being fought at this time, oil is always on the bottom line. Oil is the bottom line. The Iraq war is about oil. Iran has oil? Syria has oil? Russia has oil? etc. etc. etc. Just which war will the Republicans start next? Your guess is as good as mine.

Hey is there any oil in Australia???

That depends, are you coming to Australia to invade or have a holiday?

I was just wondering what is creating all that hot air and gas that is emanating from there and somehow making its presence known here.

Patch,

I wasn't going after you, but I am happy to respond to your assumptions about me.

I have not needed to kill 9 puppies because I've either had my animals spayed/neutered or managed my females while in heat so that they didn't get pregnant. I am assuming however, that you're really making an argument against abortion. I am pro-choice within my own family. While I believe that position makes more sense than to be blindly "pro-life", I do not advocate intruding in someone else's family and defining the legality of their reproductive decisions. My upset with Palin is where I perceive her hypocrisy is showing.

The REAL decision I made with regard to kids was not to bring any more onto the planet, a decision I have honored. I was asked and invited to mother this child, a commitment I take tremendously seriously. So despite the fact I had worked hard for my education, yes, I put my career on hold to honor my commitment. I don't think by acknowledging that I am waving degrees or kids. For me, it is a statement of *my* family values, which includes being an attachment parent...which requires being there to attach to.

Finally, feminism can be defined in many ways, not only the very negative connotation it has taken on in recent years. It is my belief that by laying to rest outdated legal/cultural restrictions, both men and women will benefit. My hope is that each of us rises to our greatest potential; I believe that empowering women is one step in that process.

I have my beliefs and you have yours. To each, his (or her!) own.

You just had to take it that little too far.

Shame on you.

17? Still a child... Why isn't the father up for statutory rape charges? Would that be too inconvenient a process for our power hungry, political rising star?

Ironic how children often rebel against their parents' most cherished values, especially if the child perceives some hint of hollowness, or insincerity in the parent's own actions.
Such as claiming compassion toward others, the golden rule, etc., and then acting out a tyrannical Republican Mayor and Governor... Children often teach parents their most painful lessons.

you folks crack me up, you really do..such venom directed at a person and family you don't know at all...
So now put the young father in jail..that will solve everything won't it Douglas old boy? Bristol got preggers to teach her mom and dad a lesson they soon won't forget huh Douglas? "Yes, oh yes Levi give it to me good, I want to have your baby to show my parents how insincere and hollow they really are!" "Sure Bristol baby, anything for the cause!"
Tyrannical mayor and governor huh Doug? Gee and with an over 80% approval rating at that! Those Alaskans, you just gotta love them, because they do adore their dictators up there in the cold north.
And because of her mom's views, Bristol didn't know about birth control? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Did you forget what it was like when you were a teenager? I am assuming here that most of you are human and were once teenagers (I could be wrong). Don't you all remember giggling like schoolgirls (is that a sexist remark? Live with it) when you saw your first condom? How about talking about girls (if you are guys) or talking about guys (if you are girls), or in Jonathan's case guys talking about guys? How many of you are going to admit that you learned a lot, and I mean a lot, about sex and contraceptives from your friends, cousins, older siblings? But Bristol didn't or couldn't because she was so very shielded by her mom? You folks will grasp at anything, and I mean anything to defame Gov. Palin. Her 17 year old daughter is pregnant?! My GOD what will happen to this great country of ours if she is elected VP?! She'll ban sex-ed, she'll ban birth control, She'll get Roe vs Wade overturned (I'm rooting for the last one by the way)!!

Uh GraceRN, no we have illegal immigrants for that.

Tejas you are no feminist. As a real feminist you should be happy about Palin. A strong, intelligent woman. A leader. You know, she comes home with the bacon and can fry it up in the pan? How about, I am woman hear me roar? No? Oh that abortion thing, huh? Palin can't be a real woman, a feminist at all, with her own thoughts or ideals because she is pro-life. Tejas you, and GraceRnN, are nothing but one-issue hypocrites. Palin needs to be a stay-at-home mom to raise and care for her kids and please oh please do a better job than she did with Bristol. You folks are rather sickening.

I am wondering why Gov. Palin's husband hasn't been attacked yet? What are you folks waiting for? I mean after all, even though he is commercial fisherman, works on the North Slope, is a card carrying union guy, and a champion snowmachine racer, he can't possibly be a real man, can he? For Lord's sake he let his wife out of the kitchen and possibly lets her wear shoes once in awhile! He lets her have her own opinions!? Did you see him holding the baby, while his wife was on center stage?! How unmanly is that, I ask you? And Levi standing there, why he wasn't totally black and blue is beyond me! I didn't see any shotgun around either, did any of you? Where the hell is the shotgun?

To use Bill O'Reilly's term, "pin heads".

That is what he called the parents of Britney Spears when her sister (their daughter) got pregnant as a teenager.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/09/a_double_standard.php

Or is that what is called "compassionate conservatism"? That would be being compassionate only toward conservatives and their families?

daedalus2 here is the entire Bill O'Reilly quote:

"On the pinhead front, 16-year-old Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant. The sister of Britney says she is shocked. I bet.

Now most teens are pinheads in some ways. But here the blame falls primarily on the parents of the girl, who obviously have little control over her or even over Britney Spears. Look at the way she behaves.

And by the way, the mother, Lynne Spears, has reportedly already sold pictures of the upcoming baby of her 16-year-old for a million bucks. Incredible pinhead."

When Gov. Palin makes one thin dime from her daughter's pregancy, post again ok? Until then shut the hell up.

Question -- What is "Horizontal gene transfer and recombination"?

A: The highly probable hyper-evolutionary paradigm driving transgenic pathogens such as H5N1.

B: Unique jeans arrangement used by denim clothing store employees who were inspired by the GenX male dancers from Michael Jackson's 80s "BAD" music video.

Pauls lane, I really love a good joke... I also appreciate when folk speak down home Walton's on science blogs. But I really do have to ask, cos I am curious... Who the fuck exactly are you and why do you consistently fail to engage with the complex social engineering policy positions of folk like Mrs Palin and Mr McCain!?!

I'm really sorry mate, but parody does not sit right here... Visualize a woman bleeding out via her infected vagina (botched back alley abortion). Cut the smart arse bullshit and THINK about where these truly damaged people (eg. Palin does not like women in much the same way as closet fags do not like OUT homos) desire to take America and the rest of the world!

Jonathan that is the crux of the matter isn't it? You perceive Palin as damaged while I do not, you and the majority of the commenters here I do find seriously damaged though. Palin I find remarkably refreshing. You see I don't buy into your logic.
Woman gets pregnant.
Woman doesn't want to have a baby.
Woman goes to an illegal abortionist to have an illegal abortion.
Unborn child dies.
Woman dies from botched abortion.
Palin's fault.

If you don't want a baby or you don't want to die from a botched abortion, don't get pregnant. If you don't want to die from lung cancer, don't smoke. If you don't want to die from cirrhosis don't drink to extreme. If you don't want to die from AIDS don't....well you know Jonathan.
Who am I Jonathan? I'm an American citizen, a voter who does indeed vote. I guess to use that old cliche I'm pretty much your worst nightmare and there are millions and millions just like me. And the commenters and posters here know that, which is why the venom oozes on these pages. They are afraid, very afraid.

Paul, I don't understand where you are coming from. If she can make a million bucks with some baby pictures, that should buy quite a few diapers and keep her off welfare.

O'Reilly said regarding Bristol's pregnancy that unless government money is involved it is no one's business but the family's. O'Reilly blamed the Spear's family for Ms Spear's pregnancy.

So if Bristol or Palin make any money off of Bristol's baby you will vote for Obama?

Pauls Lane, "Jonathan that is the crux of the matter isn't it? You perceive Palin [the neo-nazi extremist] as damaged while I do not, you [the bullied citizen and subject of neo-nazi extremism] and the majority of the [educated] commenters here I do find seriously damaged though. Palin I find remarkably refreshing. You see I don't buy into your logic..."

Revere, "As the Bilerico project points out, the cost of the [Alaskan state benefits to all state workers HB 4002] referendum was $1.2 million. The cost of the benefits: $313,562. This was about ideology, not fiscal conservatism."

Pauls Lane, you really are a rather expressive fellow -- talking is better than silence anyday... Is your real name actually "Paul"? It's incredibly difficult to be spooked -- which appears to be your subconscious intent -- by an American (no more or less "American" than my bio cousins living in New York) performing on the blog stage via an anonymous identity/persona. Anyway Paul, why on earth would you say, "I'm pretty much your worst nightmare and there are millions and millions just like me"!?!

Are you suggesting I should feel like a... Jew (which I actually am, by the way)!?! A Euro-Jew living in 1930s Berlin -- who should feel intimidated by Hitler's growing religion!?!

I've never met you Paul. You've never met me. Why would I consider you my "nightmare" (if you only knew what they actually comprised of) when I don't actually consider you my enemy!?! You say Palin is "socially refreshing" -- she, just like Hitler, spent taxpayer dollars ensuring a section of US society remains second class (sub-citizen)...

There is a fuck of a lot of "shared damage" here -- but at least we ARE talking about it:*)

In a lot of ways, the US electorate is like the Australian electorate. We rarely allow any political party to control both the executive and the Senate. When that happens, we seem to get legislation that sticks in the craw.

Similarly in the US, a Republican President would not likely be able to reverse Wade-v-Roe while the Democrats control Congress. So despite McCain's protestations, reversal of Wade isn't about to happen. Maybe a little less federal subsidies into sex ed, but it could be argued that sex education should be a parental discretion.

Over here, the main result of our recent Labour Party win (~ US Democrats) seems to be that a lot of pro-union legislation has gotten enacted. Grants to Auto corporations. And international trade being restricted.

Unions represent the wealthy middle class over here. Lawyers, educators, journalists, the medical profession. The scallywag (builders, power & transport) unions provide the smokescreen that allows wealthy professionals to hide their plays.

So instead of looking at the things that are very unlikely to happen if McCain (or Obama) gets elected, let's look instead at the things that are very likely to happen if either of those guys gets elected. Things like subsidies and legislation to help large (e.g. GM) corporations? What will happen to Hispanic immigration? How will world trade and inflation be affected? What about Freddie & Fanny? What will be done (if anything) about the burgeoning health care crisis?

bar, Roe v Wade is a lot more tenuous than you think. It only remains the law of the land by a 5 to 4 majority on the US Supreme Court. All it takes is a change of one justice for it to be voted the other way. The US president is the one who nominates justices when there is a vacancy.

The rich don't care because they will go to Canada or where ever else in the world to get a safe, legal medical abortion. Plane fare only adds a couple thousand to the cost. They will save multiple times that on taxes. Let the Christian right social conservatives screw the poor with their puritanical notions about sex. The rich will get richer.

It is the poor who will be forced into the back alleys for the illegal unsafe abortions.

No Jonathan I and millions and millions like me, are not the Gestapo or the SS or anything like that. We are American voters who will vote for McCain/Palin. Why is it you freakin' people always compare points of view you don't agree with to Nazis? Why? Jonathan come up with another comparison will you? You are becoming such a boor.

I thought that congress had to approve the president's choice of Justice for the US Supreme Court?

Not that such a choice would be the final word, even with a complicit congress. In Oz our Justices, once appointed, have a tendency to go maverick.

I suppose that is to be expected. A High Court judge is at the peak of the legal profession and requires no man's approval for continuance in office.

Sorry to interrupt all this, but about the original article....

The Washington Post article is both incorrect and misleading. Check the facts:

Covenant House Alaska grant income received from the State of Alaska:
(2006) $1.2 million
(2007) $1.3 million
(2008) $3.9 million

In 2008, Covenant House Alaska asked the state for $10 million to assist in the building of a new $22 million facility. The legislature appropriated $5 million, and Governor Palin used her line-item veto to limit this year's grant INCREASE to $2.6 million (a total grant this year of $3.9 million). Additional money will be allocated for this capital expenditure project over the next few years, a phased-in grant rather than all the money at once.

This was confirmed in a quote from the Executive Director of Covenant House Alaska, Deirdre Cronin:

"Despite some press reports to the contrary, our operating budget was not reduced. Our $3.9 million appropriation is directed toward a multi-year capital project and it is our understanding that the state simply opted to phase in its support for this project over several years, rather than all at once in the current budget year."

Vicky, pauls: I freely admit I wasn't aware of this. Does this change things? It would be foolish to say it is of no account. Clearly limiting an increase is a different kind of thing (and in my world, not nearly as bad) as slashing an existing allotment. So the question I have is what effect this has and why the Governor made this decision. The State of Alaska is awash in money so it isn't because dollars are scarce. The Republican legislature appropriated the money, too. Perhaps you can tell me the reasoning here and the effect this decision had on the services and why this. I don't know and am interested.

For anyone looking for the real numbers on Covenant House... I've been hunting and found some of them.

http://24ahead.com/blog/archives/007978.html

The 2006 and 2008 from Vicki's post are correct, I can't find the 2007 one. SO I can say pretty confidently that the budget cut to 3.9 million (and labeled as an expansion) was (just under) 1.2 million in 2006.

And that link also points to a new (new for state funding, maybe not new) children outreach program that got 2.7 million (up from 0 obviously). So the 1.1m cut might have been a trade-off for the 2.7m new item? Hard to say for sure.

Another apoplectic fit from pauls lane, A lane straight to fascist dictatorship, cheering all the way... Go join your buddy O'Reilly and the Fox Kid's club support group as you watch your partisans ruin the economy, enlarge the government bureaucracy, bankrupt the country with an endless war, etc.

Hey Doug I'm just as upset as you are with the Bush Administration's over the top domestic spending and enlarging the government bureaucracy but you need to listen to and pay attention to what Obama is saying he is going to do.

Wow, I never knew that Palin comparison, II: teen pregnancy and sex education. That's pretty interesting...