News is news

Henry Niman says that in Indonesia most of the human isolates from bid flu victims have a number of changes that distinguish them from all public avian H5N1 sequences. The only non-human sequence that does match is from a cat.
Therefore, the evidence indicates that cats may be the dominant vector for the transmission of H5N1 to humans. This means the scientific community is ignoring the evidence, and insisting that the souce is avian, although of course, birds may also be a vector.
This is equilivant to doctors in past centuries that bled their patients in order to cure them. And there is a cultural barrier in the West, since we in the West can accept killing chickens and other fowl, but cannot accept the idea of killing all cats, and perhaps all dogs, in areas where there are clusters of human infection.
Samples of blood from cats in Asia should be examined for
H5N1 in the areas where there are many human infections. Because, to ignore cats as a vector, may result in a pandemic. Also the blood of other mammals in Asia should also be examined for H5N1, since there may be multiple vectors to humans from various types of mammals.
There will be no way to control a pandemic if mammals are ignored as vectors. And if the pandemic hits the US, you may have to shoot your dog and your cat, if you want to stop the pandemic from spreading. Of course this last statement will enrage most dog and cat owners.
In Thailand, they are putting in place isolation rooms for bird flu patients. And when they are observing between 40 and 130 patients that have symptoms of bird flu, they may be observing the beginning of a pandemic.

william: I don't think cats are ignored. Peter Roeder was mounting a cat inquiry about 6 months ago, but Indon is a difficult working environment so I don't know what has been done. However it is on the radar screen of several flu virologists and been ths subject of a number of papers in high profile journals. We have posted on it here a half dozen times, going way back (at the other site).

"And if the pandemic hits the US, you may have to shoot your dog and your cat, if you want to stop the pandemic from spreading."

I'll blow the brains out of my good dog, Jack, if he pulls a gun on me first. You betcha.

Hat Trick. Good one!!

Revere,
Andrew Jereminko, a virologist who worked for years in Indonesia, said, as you well know; that the only blood match for H5N1 was a cat. Now Henry Niman is saying the same thing.
The issue is not that virologists are studying cats as vectors. The issue is that there must immediately be tests done in the field in Thailand and Indonesia; to determine if cats; and possibly dogs, in these countries, in the areas
where there are large clusters of human infection of H5N1; are infected.
And the sceintific community should condemn these governments if they do not do it, just as they were condemned for not releasing the H5N1 strains.
To delay to do it may result in increased human death from H5N1 infection, and may cause a pandemic to develop.
The evidence indicates cats may be a vector. Why do you ignore this evidence? Why do you not insist on field testing of cats in Indonesia and Thailand? Why did you take so long to realize just how incredibly useless WHO really is?

Just keep your furry friend indoors, (as you would your chilldren) and put your gun away..

Henry Niman says, in regard to samples of blood taken from infected individuals sent to Australia for testing:
"Information on recent samples sent to Australia for sequencing would be useful as would a more robust surveillance of H5N1 in migratory birds and mammals, including swine, cats and dogs. Moreover, testing of human cases with bird flu symptoms in the absence of contact with dead birds would be useful."
I know some of you on this blog sight will immediately attack Henry Niman. But the issue is not Henry Niman. It is that there is strong evidence that birds are not the source of H5N1 infections in many of the cases being reported in Asia.
It is not just Henry Niman that is requesting this testing of mammals. There are many in the scientific community that realize the vectors for many of the human bird flu victims are unknown.

william: I don't consider WHO useless. They are incredibly useful in many ways. They were important in the SARS story, in wiping out smallpox, in addressing River Blindness and malaria and polio and countless other ways. They do it on a very small budget. Many have given their lives in this endeavor. As I said, Peter Roeder (who works for FAO) was working on the cat problem in Indonesia by doing the survey you are suggesting. What else would you like to do?

william: Please stop making this about Henry. As you say, it isn't. We have weighed in on this multiple times here. Here's an example: http://scienceblogs.com/effectmeasure/2006/07/is_most_bird_flu_from_pou…

Revere,
I did not know Peter Roeder was working on the cat problem in Indonesia. And I should have spelled sight as site in my previous post.
art of my criticism was neither just nor constructive, and your work on this blog site is critically important to us all. Sorry for trying to put words in your mouth. I knew you did not think WHO was useless.
I would only like to suggest, as I stated in my previous
post, that, as Henry Niman stated; there needs to be testing of other mammals, including cats, dogs, and swine. Because in many cases of human infection, we do not know what the vector is for H5N1.
It appears many representatives of Asian governments refuse to consider other vectors for human bird flu infections. This attitude could prove to be highly destructive.

william: No problem. It is hard for anyone with a normal life to keep up with this. We need to work together to keep each other current and sort out fact from fiction. I learn a lot from commenters.

Keep your gun. You may need it for the have nots that will be foraging. As Lysa says keep the furry little guys inside and you wont have any problems. Revere has a list of approved viracides that I sent him and/or you can ask me for to disinfect your yards while they go out and do their stuff. They dont get it unless there is a vector to them. Puppy pop, bird doo, dead anything in the back yard. You'll be able to wash the car, mow the grass (with a mask), but have to do it singly with no one else or furry anything around you. Clean is going to be the thing.

Cats pose a particularly interesting risk because you dont know where its been when its outside. Muzzle the dogs too to keep their faces up off the ground and keep them separated. Horses as well have to be muzzled up and how you keep a stall clean in a situation like this is going to be tough. Birds fly in and out of barns all day long, crap in them too.

Those with horses, pigs, chickens on farms are going to really take a hit if it rolls in like it is now. Financial and personal. By the way NYC just suggested that all citizens stock up a two week supply of food, water, medicines in a public meeting.

Hey revere. How do I post up my email address on this so people can contact me if they want? It used to be automatically lighted up on the "Posted by:"

In an article in the Guardian, dated November 16, 2005 it states:
"Scientists in Vietnam believe the H5N1 bird flu strain has mutated, allowing it to breed more effectively in mammals, though not necessarily in humans."
"Scientists at the Pasteur Institute found significant variations in the 24 samples from humans and poultry."
And it appears the most recent bird flu strains found in infected individuals in Indonesia and Thailand have mutated even further from avain strains.
It might be possible there are now H5N1 strains that no longer need birds as a host; and therefore reside exclusively in mammals; ánd propagate exclusively in mammalian hosts, such as cats and swine.
If this possiblity is true, then insisting all human infections of H5N1 result from contact with birds, and insisting birds are the exclusive vector for H5N1 to humans; is not only absurd, it is also dangerous.
And if this theory proves to be factual, and various mammals, such as cats, are vectors for H5N1 to humans; then the issue will not only be how to protect your pet from infection with H5N1; but also the fact your pet may infect you with H5N1; and you may die as a result.
Do you now see why this is an important issue?

william: I continue to be puzzled by your questioning us on whether the various hosts is important or not. We have said a number of times here we think it is and continue to think so. We have on several occasions pointed out that in the West people live as close to their companion animals as do people in southeast asia and asia with their poultry. Go to the old site and search on cats, dogs, pets and do the same here and you will see we have sounded the alarm repeatedly. You seem to think we are disagreeing with you. We aren't.

Revere,
After reviewing you old site, I realize you do take these issues very seriously.
I just wish some of the leaders in Asian countries would stop constantly insisting the only vector is avian.
Sorry about the confusion on my part.

To bring back up an old thread we were discussing a few weeks back, what about non-vertebrate vectors and hosts?
Has anything been done (to anyone's knowledge who is reading this) to test such things as fleas, ticks, or mosquitoes in bird flu outbreak areas for H5N1 presence in their mouthparts or body fluids? Also (in another disparate line of thought or questioning) we presume (as per Randy's suggestions for prevention above) that the way the virus is passed from infected birds to mammals is through contact with their feces or blood, since both have been found to contain significant amounts of viral particles...However the virus primarily infects at binding sites in the lower respiratory system of mammalian hosts: therefore transmission would seem to be airborne, would it not? So please explain the causal chain between touching infected blood or feces and ending up with it in the respiratory tract. We have an interesting chain of H5N1 hosts, transmission between which can in some cases be logically explained, but in some cases cannot(or is quite a stretch.) What are we missing? What link(s) have we overlooked? This could be important.

The has been quite a bit of "evolution" since the sequences were released. Much has been posted on flutrackers.com. I tried putting up a link to the discussion, but the post was held for "review" and not posted.

The H5N1 sequence situiation is now very fluid. Yi Guan and Malik Peiris are releasing sequences almost in reak time. On August 10 they submitted nore sequences from Indonesia, through a case that died July 6, 2006. They also released the H5N1 data from Hong Kong, showing that the poultry and wild birds sequences were the Fujian strain that is in all reported 2005 and 2006 human cases in China.

Meanwhile, Australia is also releasing sequences almost in real time. The initial 2005 sequences from poultry in Indonesia do NOT match the human sequences with RESRRRKKR.

Henry: I censor very little here (only comments that are truly offensive), and have never held your posts. I check regularly to see if the weird system here holds posts and there are none being held for moderation. I don't know when the system is going to hold something or not so I check continually. I am away from the office now and can only reach things via a slow dialup but always post your comments. I am not sure if you are referring to this site or another one. Please be assured I do not hold your posts.

Maybe it was a glitch. It was almost a week ago. I submitted a post an got a screen saying it was being reviewed. After 1-2 hours it appeared. I put up another short post and it appeared immediately. The first post had a link or two, so I assumed posts with links had a review process. The next post had a link, and the "review" screen again appeared. That post never showed up and I stopped posting.

Today, there were no "review" screens and one post was just a link.