A fascinating thing has been going on in the Louisiana legislature: they've been busy trying to edit the ten commandments. They are working on a bill that would allow the posting of the ten commandments on public property and in public buildings, but they're having a bit of trouble deciding which version to use. You see, there are at least three different versions - Catholic, Protestant, and Jewish. The site is a bit surreal to witness:
The committee didn't settle on the version to include but did amend the more Protestant-oriented version in the bill after a civil-rights lobbyist noted some disparities.
"It says 'murder' rather than 'kill,'" said Michael Malec, noting the Sixth Commandment, which commonly reads "Thou shalt not kill."
"We can change that," replied Rep. Peppi Bruneau, R-New Orleans, who handled the bill for its absent author, Sen. James David Cain, R-Dry Creek.
And remember, these are allegedly timeless, eternal rules of right and wrong straight from the finger of God himself. Wouldn't you think that the religious right would be just a wee bit bothered by the idea of politicians editing them to get around an inconvenient court ruling? Of course, the mere fact that there are three versions causes serious establishment clause problems:
Malec, lobbyist for the American Civil Liberties Union, said Catholics and Jews might be upset with the King James-type version included in the legislation by Sen. James David Cain, R-Dry Creek."It supports a particular version when there are other versions," Malec said.
"That's a legitimate objection," said Bruneau, who handled the bill for Sen. Cain.
Malec said Cain's version also includes "thou shalt not make unto thee any graven idol." He said those words are not in the Catholic commandments...
Contacted after the meeting, Jewish Rabbi Stan Zamek of Beth Shalom Synagogue said choosing what version of the Ten Commandments to place in a government building points up the deficiency of the idea.
"I think there's a problem displaying any version in a government building. I think it's a dangerous intrusion of government into people's religious liberties in any case," Zamek said.
"You are inevitably choosing one religion over another," he said.
Indeed so. This would appear to be a difficult argument to overcome, but those plucky Louisiana legislators have an answer:
Roberts said the Ten Commandments in the bill should be considered an example that does not exclude other versions. She said she will work on changes to make that clear.
I can't wait to see that disclaimer:
"The Ten Commandments are the eternal and unchanging laws laid down by God himself, laws upon which our entire civilization is based. But these are just examples; feel free to pick your own ten and substitute them."
There appears to be no truth to the rumor that Henry Hyde, Dan Burton, Bob Livingston, Newt Gingrich, Bill Clinton and Bob Barr lobbied to have the "thou shalt not commit adultery" commandment taken out.
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They spend a good deal of time tring to tweak a few words, but they never consider putting the whole text up for display. I wish they would; it is an evil document.
Ed,
the other point is that there are three versions of the Ten Commandments in the Bible (and the third is very different). I think the prohibition against forming a covenant with a Moabite is very relevant to American jurisprudence.
Exodus 222:20-22. And Peppi did go uppeth Mt. Sinai and look upon the face of the Lord. And he did sayeth unto Him, "Oh Lord, we do hav'eth here one of the several drafts of your Commandments which our committee in Baton Rouge did'th see fit to send back for clarification". And verily the Lord did smote him for rank stupidity.
Gee, I wonder which version will get to be the "example". I'm betting heavy on the Hebrew version!
"I think the prohibition against forming a covenant with a Moabite is very relevant to American jurisprudence"
ever BEEN to that part of Utah?...
I was in error in my previous comment. Moabites are ok. It's the Jebusites you have to worry about...
Heh. If you imagine the legislators as the various characters in Herman's Head (or the Numbskulls, for British comic readers) , it's like a very stupid person working out the arguments for separation of church and state all by himself. They obviously haven't quite reached the conclusion yet.
Why don't they just reduce the commandments to the george Carlin version:
Thou shalt always be honest and faithful to the provider of thy nookie.
&
Thou shalt try real hard not to kill anyone, unless of course they pray to a different invisible man than you.
Two is all you need; Moses could have carried them down the hill in his fuckin' pocket. I wouldn't mind those folks in Alabama posting them on the courthouse wall, as long as they provided one additional commandment:
Thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself.
As a teacher, every year I have parents who say to me, "the 10 commandments are the basis for our entire legal system," I reply to them (to avoid the screaming bible thumper moment) that I "teach the foundations of our government."
They think I mean King James...
I know I mean the Magna Carta, Mayflower Compact, Lock, Hobbes, etc. etc.
Been sayin' it, been sayin' it, been sayin' it: "Why do Christians (ie., not under the law) insist on creating a graven image (ie., idol, prohibited by the 10 commandments) to the law that they are no longer under, so that they may raise it to worship it?"
Even Saint Paul (Galatians 2 - 3) proclaimed the folly of this: Christians are notoriously ignorant of their own scriptures.
Really, it's all about power and posturing, and control by the pharisees of our age. How sad that in Louisiana the citizenry have surrendered their spiritual and political freedom to the law and the control of a (pharisaic) church.
One thing I've wondered for a while now... aren't the people clamoring for the ten commandments to be put in public places Christians? And isn't the decalogue (aren't the decalogue?) found in the Torah?
Sure, they may point to that verse where Jesus says that he has come to uphold the law, or mention the Council of Trent. But I'd bet that a large portion of the people who want the commandments posted are the same people who, when showed what sort of things the Torah tells them to do, sputter and exclaim that they're Christians and therefore don't have to follow the Levitican law.
thou shalt not make unto thee any graven idol
What's so horrible about making graven idols. What a petty god. "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven idol, for it may haveth the cootie bugs. Thou shalt not gather wood on the sabbath, that was a lot of trouble making the universe just for you guys, you know."
From the point of view of the US constitution, aren't the official responses to each of the 10 commandments no, no, no, no, no, no duh, no, no duh, no and no? Those can change, depending on the version and the word choice in the interpretation (murder/kill and lie/bear false witness), but for the most part only a few match up with US laws and those are so incredibly obvious that they're hardly worth mentioning.
But maybe after some heavy editing...
Hmmm, the Louisiana legislature is trying to edit God's word? Don't they know that is a sin?
Proverbs 30:5-6 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
It is also just about the definition of "excessive entanglement" of the government in religious affairs that is prohibited by the Establishment clause. Choosing which version of the 10 Commandments is suitable to be taught to children seems better left to churches and synagogues than to statehouses.
The Louisiana "Ten Commandments" are to be in English? Will they be numbered with Roman numerals.
Errr, does anyone see a problem here?
I thought they were written in Hebrew.
This is like the man who told his minister, "I like the King James Version. If it was good enough for Saint Peter, it's good enough for me!"
Ed, just a heads up, this posting has been listed on fark.com/politics, so you'll likely be seeing a bit of a traffic surge.
As a sorta Utah native, let me assure you that you'll do better dealing with the Moabites from Moab, than with the Provolones from Provo!